[Closed] Canyon Grizl - so close

Especially as most of the men's models are available on two colour choices. Although I quite like the pink one...

That's awesome. Shame they don't do that pink in the mens. Is there actually much difference in geometry?

I agree it's a good looking bike. Also the name is an anagram of Girlz. (Possibly). But I did think we were past 'shrink it and pink it" 😋
Perfect for the riding in the area of the Surrey Hills I've been dog walking in over the last week.

But why (oh why?) do the WMN version in a nice pink colour? Lose 5 points right there…

Urghhhh agreed. Its so f****** lazy. Screams "afterthought".

Apart from the pink, it sure don't look much different to the MAN's one next to it!
Oh the saddle goes [i]up[/i] in the middle. Is that what wimmin want?

Yep. Pink only for WMN version is a joke. Only difference to mens version is female specific saddle I think. Geometry is the same. Also, why no Alu frame option given its meant to be the more hard-core sibling to the Grail?

Is there actually much difference in geometry?

Looks the same apart from the paint job, saddle and no XXL size.

I'm sure some women are pissed off with the usual pink, my missus gets right pissed off similarly with most outdoor clothing companies have gone the other way and it's all dark and dull colours. Canny please everyone eh.

There's a pic of a woman carrying a black one on the page. Must be helping her boyfriend out or something 😆

Wish they'd done the 1x bikes in a nice colour, that Earl Grey is lovely

Or they've done the market research and pink comes out favourite? I see the new female staffer is not eschewing any gender stereotypes with her smatterings of pink. Its a nice colour.

Anywho's; having sworn I'd never get another bike with Press Fit BB, anyone got experience of the Token Thread-fit one they're using. Seems to be two-halves screwed together, but is it an improvement on other PF designs?

Looks the same apart from the paint job, saddle and no XXL size.

Perhaps the stem as well? In DezB's pics, one is longer than the other. Obviously easily swapped.

I’m sure some women are pissed off with the usual pink

Conversely, I often find myself preferring the WMN bikes' paint jobs. They always seem less 'serious' than the logo'd up black/red racy-looking machines that I reckon look a bit cringey under an overweight 40 year old.

My wife also loves her pink bike.

How can a bike with no suspension or dropper cost nearly £5k? Where exactly does the money go?

Or they’ve done the market research and pink comes out favourite? I see the new female staffer is not eschewing any gender stereotypes with her smatterings of pink. Its a nice colour.

Agreed - But only if the boys bike came in blue only.

Anywho’s; having sworn I’d never get another bike with Press Fit BB, anyone got experience of the Token Thread-fit one they’re using. Seems to be two-halves screwed together, but is it an improvement on other PF designs?

I replaced the awful PressFit on my Crux with a Wheels Manufacturing unit which basically does that, two halves which screw together in the frame and you then press the bearings into that sleeve. It's been absolutely fine, completely creak free. Unlike the PressFit before it which managed to eat bearings at an alarming and very loud rate.

Normalising £5k for a DTC hard tail for riding on tame trails is nuts. Call it Surrey, drop bar or marketing tax but no thanks.

Really don’t understand why a Deore or GX group is so much less in comparison to its drop bar counterpart.

Paint is the least of my concerns. In essence what do they really change apart from paint and saddle. Easy for anyone to pick their favourite colour scheme regardless of who the bike is marketed at.

Also, why no Alu frame option given its meant to be the more hard-core sibling to the Grail?

Alu frame to be released later.

https://singletrackmag.com/gritcx/2021/05/11/new-canyon-grizl-reviewed-beyond-the-grail/

For those that don't see the front page.

Also, my bike was not pink, and was not for women 🙂

@stwhannah I'm sure I'm being thick but how do I navigate to the front page? I come in via a bookmark to either Chat forum or Bike forum but donn't see a way to the front?

Click on the word singletrack at the top of the page.

name's stupid- is it supposed to make you think of "Grizzly". Seems more like grizzle

For those that don’t see the front page.

Or those that do see the front page but are logged in and have set their preferences not to see the GritCX channel stories on the front page

Or those that do see the front page but are logged in and have set their preferences not to see the GritCX channel stories on the front page

That would be me then... 🙄

Or those that do see the front page but are logged in and have set their preferences not to see the GritCX channel stories on the front page

Give it 5 minutes and it'll log you out, then the story will just be hidden behind another full page advert.

"Keep me logged in ⬜ " - the most pointless tick box ever.

Paint is the least of my concerns. In essence what do they really change apart from paint and saddle. Easy for anyone to pick their favourite colour scheme regardless of who the bike is marketed at.

It would be great to see brands like this allow you to order your frame/finishing kit/colour of choice regardless of gender, and then pick a saddle at the end. There has been ALOT of chat about this in the women’s cycling scene of late and it really would make a difference. I did this with Rose bikes I ordered in the past, but that’s now history of course...

It would be great to see brands like this allow you to order your frame/finishing kit/colour of choice regardless of gender, and then pick a saddle at the end.

I was looking at the Ribble CGR the other day - seems very configurable.

Orbea bikes do the MYO program that allows you to configure your bike, though it may only be on the upper models.

I imagine the greater colour choice on the men's bikes above must be due to size of market/economies of scale?

Very difficult to please everyone. I very often prefer the colour schemes aimed at ladies. In fact, I have a hardtail that's powder coated fuschia and it's lush.

I am fully inboard with shrink and pink as not great.

But.

That pink one looks great I would quite happily ride that.

To be fair to them though its hardly "and a pink one for the lady" promo shots and videos are all or mostly women riding all th other colours.

Mrs Squad has just spent nearly three grand on an ebike and one of the most important things for her was the colour. She specifically didn't want it to look 'blokey'.
I'll agree on women's gear looking better.... all the womens fivetens look much funkier than the mens.

I think the pink one looks a bit wishy-washy, would prefer a full-on hot pink like Orange used to do.

But I'm not a WMN, so what do I know?

To be fair to them though its hardly “and a pink one for the lady” promo shots and videos are all or mostly women riding all th other colours.

True, makes you wonder why they didn't just add the pink colourway to some of the other models and make the women specific saddle an option on them all and do away with the WMN model.

The women's Grail 6 colour is lovely, I'd be very happy with that:

Really don’t understand why a Deore or GX group is so much less in comparison to its drop bar counterpart.

The answer seems to be the brake leaver shifter bits. Having done a few build spread sheets they are just expensive, particularly the hydro ones. I assume this because they are hard to make rather just because they are marking them up more

But as with all of these things you don't have to pony up the silly money. I'm still running Tiagra shifters with cable discs and they are currently working better than the 4 pot discs on my mountain bike

She does point out the Sonder Camino does the same job and that is way less

I've really gone off the looks of Canyons. Think the colours of the WIMMINS one is the only one that carries the look.

True, makes you wonder why they didn’t just add the pink colourway to some of the other models and make the women specific saddle an option on them all and do away with the WMN model.

Yep.
I think that's how Trek have gone with their range.
They have a Gender Men/Women dropdown, which shows exactly the same bikes 🙂

ElShalimo
Full Member
The women’s Grail 6 colour is lovely, I’d be very happy with that:

@ElShalimo - it is but would look better if the fork colour faded the other way.

The women’s Grail 6 colour is lovely

Yeah that's gorgeous.

Is it only me or that bike have short-arse MTB-esque head tube?

And PF not-so-PF bottom bracket shell/BB?

Cheers!
I.

I had a Token screw together bottom bracket put in my Search XR to fix a warranty claim for a loose GXP Press fit BB. No issues after 4000 km and I am a fat knacker who mashes rather than spins.

Less bothered about the colour and press fit bb than by the conservative 72.75 head angle and 73.5 seat tube, with a 25mm setback post! Are these bikes actually meant to be ridden off road? And climb without feeling like you're about to fall off the back? Rhetorical questions. 70/74 ish with an inline post is where it's at. Maybe it's to leave something to improve in a few years for the next model. Seems like bigger brands are overly influenced by road bikes and what their pro roadie team say. Whereas Whyte, Nukeproof, Ragley, Fustle, Salsa, Vielo, BMC have actually thought about what works best.

Less bothered about the colour and press fit bb than by the conservative 72.75 head angle and 73.5 seat tube, with a 25mm setback post! Are these bikes actually meant to be ridden off road? And climb without feeling like you’re about to fall off the back?

Perhaps the marketing is more 'off' than the geometry. Look at the bars, the saddle to bar drop etc - this isn't an off-road bike, it's a road design adapted for some light off-road use part of the time. If we're / they're honest about the kind of terrain these bikes actually cope with those numbers work fine. Sounds like a trad road geometry but the 45mm tyre OD adds some trail, the wheelbase is a bit longer, don't know what the fork offset is though.
You could go MTB-influence geometry with it and it then flops a bit on narrow rutted jeep tracks and feels odd on tarmac or the front-rear balance may be off on road corners compared to a good road bike. You won't be smashing through rocky sections or riding it like an MTB for long anyway (well maybe in the promo video) so while yes it could be slacker, I don't think the agility and light steering feel on roads and byways etc is a bad trade off. Whatever the geometry these are mostly still light, head-down bikes with narrow drops and slim tyres - fat tyred road bikes. 'off-roading' the geometry to some extent is the thing to do yes, but in some cases gives you compromised handling on road which is where all of these bikes should feel good, otherwise why bother with a road-like design as a base?
There's plenty of gravel bikes with MTB-ish geo that riders like and I'm not saying they're wrong at all, just suggesting that it's not all or always positive effects if you see these bikes as at least 50% road bike. If you see them as more / 100% off-road then we just differ in opinion or what we want in a bike like this and that's ok, a large part of these bike's appeal is that they're different things to different riders.

To be fair to them though its hardly “and a pink one for the lady” promo shots and videos are all or mostly women riding all th other colours.

Totally. And they have sponsored Jenny Tough (the main lady riding in the video) as part of the launch.

Perhaps the marketing is more ‘off’ than the geometry. Look at the bars, the saddle to bar drop etc – this isn’t an off-road bike, it’s a road design adapted for some light off-road use part of the time.

If so the marketing is definitely off looking at the photos of it being ridden on gnarly terrain from Canyon and Radavist websites. Not to mention 'Ready for rough stuff' claim. Seems like there's not much to differentiate between the Grizl and Grail. Few small details, including to accommodate the Grail's weird bars, but they essentially perform the same job.

Can't say I think a 70 head angle would really have any downside even for a road bike. But then I'm used to mountain bikes and anything over 68 handles sharp to me.

Does feel like a bit of a self inflicted punch in the face.

Bearing in mind the bike frame is the same, imagine just having it available in 3 colours (they are direct sales so they can just mark pink in XL as not available if they don't think they'll sell) and a "female specific" cockpit pack at nil cost which you choose with a tick box. Wham bam, men who like pink get to buy it, ladies who want the black get to buy it with a female specific saddle. Everyone is happy and you don't look likes knobs pinkwashig your products.

If so the marketing is definitely off looking at the photos of it being ridden on gnarly terrain from Canyon and Radavist websites. Not to mention ‘Ready for rough stuff’ claim

From the Radavist.

From Canyon's site.

I had to have a look, was interested. Looks closer to hybrid level terrain than MTB tbh?

What about this, this, this, or this? All hybrid terrain? To be fair a decent flat bar hybrid is more capable than many gravel bikes. Anyway those photos look better suited to some slightly more capable angles to me.

At least Canyon marketing dept aren't as silly as BMC. Don't flip bicycle photos folks!

Watch out, we're not allowed to talk about Grizl

What about this, this, this, or this? All hybrid terrain? To be fair a decent flat bar hybrid is more capable than many gravel bikes. Anyway those photos look better suited to some slightly more capable angles to me.

Is that considered extreme or not suitable for a gravel bike? I've been riding the wrong trails then.

Every single one of those photos looks like great fun on a gravel bike.

Anyway those photos look better suited to some slightly more capable angles to me.

They show riders taking it pretty easy on mild XC trails tbh. And one rider bunnyhopping?
Not being obtuse, I just don't see those pics as a bike being marketed for anything rugged beyond what's been normal for CX and gravel bikes for ages.
I basically agree with you though - the Arkose used similar longer TT / shorter stem and 45mm tyres a while back but also had a 71.5 HTA. The ride feel was right imo at 71.5 with 50mm offset. I'd have considered 72.5 a bit steep - but not too steep to ride ok, it may have been too steep for the positioning of the bike. 72.5 is endurance road and CX, 71ish is gravel, 69 is MTB-ish drop bar, etc. In reality they're all limited by the same things whatever the HTA and main geometry aspects.

I ride all of that sort of stuff on a brakeless fixed gear on 28c tyres so pretty sure it would be fine on the fat tyred Grizl.
The geometry of the Grizl looks perfect to me for a gravel bike, i.e. for mostly riding fast on gravel roads. Why people seem to want the geometry of a chopper on their gravel bike always seems odd to me.

I ride all of that sort of stuff on a brakeless fixed gear on 28c tyres so pretty sure it would be fine on the fat tyred Grizl.

There's a difference between getting from A to B over the terrain and 'riding it' though ie riding with speed and flow, creative with your lines and the opportunities etc. I mean, I can ride a BMX on my local trails but it's rubbish and I'd be way faster, smoother and have more fun at every point along the way on a rigid MTB. I'm sure a good rider could be suprisingly quick on a track bike on fire roads but it's despite of not aided by the bike.

That's where I think gravel bike marketing is mis-selling the bikes. You see a lot of riders struggling to let the bike run on even the gentlest of off-road trails and bikepackers really struggling on loaded gravel bikes off-road. Yes they can go anywhere but they don't flow anywhere.
Marketing has always over-sold things. Not sure this is an example of that but in general gravel bikes seem to be accepted as something beyond what they are, eg look at the start line of the Atlas Mountain race etc.

Is that considered extreme or not suitable for a gravel bike? I’ve been riding the wrong trails then.

No, I'd ride all of that on a gravel bike, and do. I just think 70, as I've got, would be a lot more suitable to it than 72.75.

Why people seem to want the geometry of a chopper on their gravel bike always seems odd to me.

70 is chopper geometry to you? Strange 🤔

I’m sure a good rider could be suprisingly quick on a track bike on fire roads but it’s despite of not aided by the bike.

Not true. I am faster on my track bike that I am on an MTB on fire roads, it is a very good style of bike for all year round fire road riding.

70 is chopper geometry to you? Strange

Nope but thetas the way it is going, but then 72.5 is hardly steep for a road based bike either. Remember this is gravel riding we are discussing here not MTBing. Mostly straight lines with corners taken at a speed the tyres allow rather than the geometry.