To cut a long story short, I have some shiny new tubeless rims for the road. And I was all for pairing them with a good set of tubeless tyres, until I read all the various debates...
Now when I think of road tubeless I see people stood by the side of the road with badly torn tyres, covered in goo.
I've read through various old forum threads and they all seem to have those people covered in goo, and an equal amount who have never encountered any problems.
There does seem to be an inherent risk in tubeless, in that when it does go pear shaped you're handed a very large pear. But the technology is surely moving along all the time, and tyres improve.
So, in the modern world, on a modern setup, all current to 2019. As someone who has never gone tubeless on any bike. My main question is, will it leave me stranded? If I get a flat, will I get it pumped up with a regular pump or be relying on C02? And if I need to tube it, is it as bad as people make it?
At the moment I'm pretty much decided on staying with tubes. Summer fast bike. Thinking of 25mm GP4000s. (Tubeless equivalent would be Schwalble Pro-one, Hutchinson Fusion 5..?) Something good enough for racing, but reliable for big days out. Since I was quite sold on tubeless initially, part of me is hoping I can be swayed back... (and not regret it).
I was a long time tube user on my old roadie for 5 years - had a number of punctures mainly pinch. In the meantime I've been running tubeless on my mountain bike for years.
Recently got a new Canyon Ultimate frameset and have gone for tubeless using Fusion 5 - so far so good. Certainly from my MTB experience if I got a puncture it wouldn't be much effort to put a tube in and carry on.
Had the same debate myself. Seems that tubeless is good when it's good but PIA when it's not.
I'm concerned about roadside repairs. Looks like I have to carry anchovies, a tool, a patch, glue and CO2 canister in addition to spare inner and pump that I carry now. Also I need a knife to cut off the anchovy...assuming that it works!
Those who use it swear by it, but even though roadies are conservative by nature, if if was as good as it's proponents claim then new bikes would be appearing already set up.
I've followed a few threads on here and the general gist seems to be that for road bikes it's probably more trouble than it's worth. Road tyres seem to be just too low profile for successful usage.
Stands back and waits to be flayed by the converted!!!
What puts me off tubeless on the road bike is that punctures (at least in my area) on the road seem to come more from cuts from shards of stone than thorns etc so harder for sealant to plug a gashed tyre. Obviously anchovies might help but still. Also, I do a lot of bridleway bashing on gravel/road tyres and flints etc are likely sources of punctures and present the same problems for tubeless.
I think the crux of it. And I've been through the many pros and cons. Is that if there is any chance it's going to leave me stranded, that's a deal breaker for me.
My research suggests this ranges between quite possible and very probable.
If it can be fixed by the road side, I'm happy.
Unless I'm misunderstanding - your issues against tubeless in terms of tyres ripping can happen using tubes?!
Tubeless, but with a Dynaplug in the back pocket.
Been using tubeless for 3 years on my winter bike and have had some punctures. Have had a couple (that I noticed) that sealed by themselves and a few that needed a tube (an anchovy might have worked).
At no point was I left stranded.
My summer bike will be tubeless this year as well.
Unless I’m misunderstanding – your issues against tubeless in terms of tyres ripping can happen using tubes?!
Of course, but the entire tubeless system relies on repairing itself, which it apparently can't do with any significant nicks, at least under the high pressures used on road bikes.
And if I were to look at my tubed tyres, they generally have several holes and nicks in them, which are really unnoticeable without inspection, and they cause no issues. They would however allow air to escape from a tubeless tyre. Even with large holes and rips I have managed to carry on by inserting a boot between tyre and tube.
Well, here's the bad, my tale of woe from Wednesday - https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/wait-till-i-get-you-home/#post-10475374
However, that is the first time in nearly 3 years I've been stranded. I'll put a (newer) tubeless tyre on the rim and run tubeless again. No way I'd go back to tubes. Number of punctures I used to get and have to stop in the cold and rain to fix... no way. Despite how much of a bastard the tyres can be to get on, tubeless is definitely worth it IME. Sealant has fixed every other hole I've had in tubeless (4, I think) and it was only pump failure that stranded me this week really.
[i]They would however allow air to escape from a tubeless tyre.[/i]
No they wouldn't - my tubeless tyres are covered in the same sort of nicks.
There is zero chance of getting stranded if you take some basic repair precautions [probably some folk would manage it but you'd need to be completely mechanically inept].
It is the case that sealant will not always close a puncture under the working pressure you would like in the tyre, so road tubeless is not quite the perfect solution it is on the mountain bike. It mostly will, though (IME), and this won't have you stranded in any case - plus the plugs you can get nowadays are easy to apply and they will hold high pressure.
completely mechanically inept
Or your pump breaks!
Or your pump breaks!
Simulpost DezB, wasn't aimed at you honest!
That valve nut you had to take off with pliers is a good thing to know about tubeless - had that on the MTB once or twice. Some of the heavier mavic-type ones can corrode on quite easily commuting in all weathers.
what's with all this shredding of road tyres?? I commute daily in all weathers and ride at the weekend but punctures are very rare occurrences. Even when they do happen you pull the tube out and put a spare in, then pump it back up again, it doesn't take long to do and would take as long as stopping to faff with a tubeless - and half the time your tubeless 'fix' is to chuck in the tube you are carrying around
I can see the benefit of tubeless for MTB and cross (the low pressure thing) but a good tyre and a good quality tube (which don't weigh a lot) on a road bike feels fine, works fine and doesn't have the goo risk - road tyres don't need to be run super-low pressure
Or your pump breaks!
Did you discover what the fault was with the pump? Sure I read somewhere of someone who had sucked sealant back into theirs.
That valve nut you had to take off with pliers is a good thing to know about tubeless – had that on the MTB once or twice. Some of the heavier mavic-type ones can corrode on quite easily commuting in all weathers.
Carrying additional tools is something I could do without too. Totally understand the corrosion, as I've had that on a pump before, with the hose welded inside. Carbon rims, so hopefully not an issue?
For me it depends on the rims. My Aeroad has Reynolds Aero 65 rims, if I get stranded with those its a call to the wife tubeless or not. They are an absolute nightmare to get tyres on and off the rim. Currently set up tubeless and I take a pack of anchovies and a boot with me as should fix most issues. Tyres are new Schwalbe Pro Ones, not great but will do until racing season starts and I'll probably go to different more puncture prone tyres (but again tubeless).
Winter bike has tubes, they are tubeless rims but the tyres go on and off easy, after previous faffs with road tubeless they will stay tubed. (I've made a bit of a mess of my carbon rims when trying to get tubeless tyres off, cold hands, pitch black etc)
My Pro Ones had small nicks in them after the first ride. Have kept air inside but need topping up every ride. I think they fact they are made of cheese doesn't help.
That valve nut you had to take off with pliers is a good thing to know about tubeless
Ah, yes, that was bunged up with Stans (not inside, but the threads)(Caffe Latex valve, btw, they're really good 🙂 ). Also had to use the pliers to bang it out of the valve hole.
Did you discover what the fault was with the pump?
I did think that sealant could've caused it, but no, there was no sealant in it at all. It was the rubber sealing washers inside the shaft. They'd stretched and were jamming the insides.
You'd only need additional tools if you couldn't get the hole sealed - and that is very very rare.
It is the case that sealant will not always close a puncture under the working pressure you would like in the tyre, so road tubeless is not quite the perfect solution it is on the mountain bike. It mostly will, though (IME), and this won’t have you stranded in any case – plus the plugs you can get nowadays are easy to apply and they will hold high pressure.
That's my take on it. On one occasion, my tyre wouldn't self seal, my fault for not topping up the sealant. So I just fitted a tube, no different to repairing a normal puncture.
So are we saying that no one who runs tubeless on the road carries a spare tube any more?
Yes, having an almost self repairing tyre is one of the benefits (if the sealant plugs the hole) but I don't understand why you still wouldn't just carry a tube?? Plus other useful stuff like a bit of gaffa tape/piece of toothpaste tube and the other useful stuff you'd carry if you were using tubes??
To me the main benefit of tubeless is the quality of the ride and less likelihood of pinch flats at lower pressures if I accidentally hit a pothole. In the event of a thorn or a cut, then if it self seals then that's just a bonus, but I'd never go out without a spare tube.
What mtbtomo says....I'd take exactly the same spares and tools with me tubeless or not. The advantage of tubeless is I won't fall foul of a thorn, the disadvantage being I have to tip a thimble of goop away before I put my spare tube in.
I think you'll only know once you've tried it for yourself OP!
I went through a tubeless phase on my MTBs but eventually just drifted back to tubes, and have felt no urge to try tubeless on any of my road bikes. It just feels like overcomplicating something which already works fine for me.
FWIW I'm happy running 75/80psi with tubes, rarely puncture, and like being able to swap tyres around easily between bikes.
Of the four road bike punctures I've had in the lat couple of years, three have involved big, ride-ending rips in the tyre itself and I can't see anything making a difference to those. This morning's not only destroyed the tyre and tube but actually blew the rear mudguard off.
Tubeless on one road bike (Prime rims, 28c Schwalbe Pro Ones) - no issues so far and the bike has done about 2000 miles since August 2018 when I fitted them.
Tubeless on the CX bike (American Classic tubeless wheelset, Schwalbe G-One 38c tyres) and it's sealed a few thorn punctures but it's also failed twice. The last one was just last weekend when it got a puncture too big to seal but too small to fix with a worm (and I had a bad experience with a worm-fixed tyre when the repair blew out).
So I ended up putting a tube in (after removing about 3 thorns from the tyre which had auto-sealed). Took about 30 minutes to get the tyre off, remove the thorns, boot the hole and fit a tube and get it all going again - meanwhile it got the back of the bike and the rim covered in sealant. Thankfully I had some latex gloves.
IME they're excellent when they work and on the rare occasions when you get a puncture too big to seal, they're a total pain and very messy.
To be fair, the CX bike has done thousands of miles of mixed on/off road use including the Three Peaks on tubeless with no issues so 2 punctures in that time that I needed to fix (and several that I didn't even know about) is probably par for the course.
So are we saying that no one who runs tubeless on the road carries a spare tube any more?
In my post immediately before yours.
On one occasion, my tyre wouldn’t self seal, my fault for not topping up the sealant. So I just fitted a tube,
Been tubeless for two years. Last year stopped even carrying pump or repairs. 17k miles last year. Punctured, just kept rolling no issues. If their fitted correctly and topped up with stans they seem bomb proof. Have seen punctures and latex coming out out but sealed every time. No issues over short Peaks briddleways off piste venture. Wales and Glos hedges thorns and badly repaired roads. Year included cycling to Barcelona and back. So I'm convinced there pretty good. Not even plugged the holes. I do change my tyres each year but that seems a small price to pay - 28mm schwalbe ones. Most important tip - top them up regularly. Like everyone says why not try it? Worse that can happen? Phone a taxi and get a lift home.
I literally forgot to carry a spare tube for about 18 months. Never needed one and it was only this week that I was glad to have one in my rucksack. Didn’t do me any good though, on this occasion.
There does seem to be an inherent risk in tubeless, in that when it does go pear shaped you’re handed a very large pear.
No risk,you just pop a tube in for for the odd time that it doesn’t work the majority of time I’ve just felt my tyre go soft pulled over a quick pump and back on the road.
No spare tube for me when tubeless. I used to for the first few years, after that decided it was overkill. I do about 8k miles on my tubeless wheels. 4k on my tubed.
I don't take a pump but I do take C02 cartridges but never needed. I do change my tyres regularly though. My Schwalbe Pro Ones will only be used between end of March to early May and then my racing tyres will go. Then September / October I'll put a different set of 25mm tyres on, possibly the Conti 5000s this year.
But like I mentioned early, my rims are an absolute beast to get tyres from. I honestly think it might be a manufacturing defect, they are ridiculous. Just breaking the seal is almost impossible - I am a typical roadie who is as weak as a wet lettuce.
I got a new set of Hunt wheels last year which were tubeless. I hadn't chosen them for that reason, and wasn't planning to run tubeless, but ended up with a free pair of tubeless tyres after my order was delayed for a long time, so decided to give them a try. I thought they rolled very nicely, and I had no problems at all. In the end, I switched back to tyres and tubes that I knew well, for some long distance events I was riding, simply because I didn't have long term experience of the reliability of the new tubeless tyres. I would certainly consider using tubeless again in the future, however.
I don't really follow the arguments about the risk of being "stranded", but then I wouldn't even think about riding without a pump and spare tubes (& patches!). That seems a bit daft. The chance of a big hole that doesn't seal is very low, but why would you risk getting stuck?
But like I mentioned early, my rims are an absolute beast to get tyres from. I honestly think it might be a manufacturing defect, they are ridiculous. Just breaking the seal is almost impossible – I am a typical roadie who is as weak as a wet lettuce.
Tbh I’ve got a set of 60mm Carbon aero wheels and I don’t relish attempting a roadside tube change, I am currently running them with the sealant in tubes thou as they have been total bstrds.(just bad luck massive hole in tyre on first ride)
I’m thinking going the foam run flat strips route with sealant thou
Some tyre wheel combos are just grim.
CO2, Dynaplug, Stanley blade, tyre boot and flexible glue. All packs down into a jersey pocket.
No spare tube and never once been stranded in 3 years.
To be honest I think I’d really struggle to get a tube in anyway.
I've been tubeless for just under a year now after getting one too many punctures last March in Andalucia. Took a while to convert as my Mavic Ksyrium's aren't tubeless ready. Did 10 days in Cevennes and a further 2 weeks in Pyrenees without issue until last day when I got what turned out to be a cut in the rear part way up the Pailheres on the way back to Ax les Thermes. As others have said once you get a cut in a road tyre it doesn't seem to seal like a MTB tyre would so I quickly accepted the inevitable and put in a tube (fortunately I had two spares as the valve stem on the first was too short, doh!!!!).
And a very lightweight pair of pliers is highly recommended for when you find the lockring won't budge otherwise.....
Always thought about going tubeless on the Road bike ,I was needing tyres this year so took the leap, Got Roval CarbonRims & Schwalbe Pro ones the roads I use are S**t but I used to run the tubes at around 100psi I dropped the pro ones to 80 psi bike feels faster & much comfier & touch wood no punctures I always carry a tube pump etc ,
....then new bikes would be appearing already set up....
did hear local Giant dealer was doing it as default - setting up when unpacking and doing PDI
Stanley blade, tyre boot and flexible glue. All packs down into a jersey pocket.
trust that Stanley blade is well protected [/lostwilltolivetryingtodosmileys]
trust that Stanley blade is well protected
Of course, it’s in a hard plastic sleeve
Of course, it’s in a hard plastic sleeve
just checking [attemptssmiley] : - ) [/maybe]
3 winters of tubeless now a faultless. Quite a few punctures ( I think) Pulled out 3 separate blackthorns last week. All sealed at the same time and pressure was still enough to carry on for 50 miles.
Can't pretend to have done millions of road miles but at least 40 years of always having a road bike with a lot of rough stuff thrown in and I have never slashed a tyre. Nor on the MTB since 1984. I don't take that sort of damage into account really although I do carry one skinny road tube but that's needed if I swap the seat bag to another bike anyway.
I guess if I did wreck a tyre it would be the same as any other tubed tyre. Stick in a new tube and if needed block the hole in the tyre with some road side debris or a bit of tape that holds my tube in a nice neat bunch.
Bet its the usual situation whereby no one even thinks about the times when something works but is happy to shout if it doesn't.
Schwalbe S one tyres and Pacenti rims so 1 lever fitment. Equally they do the same on On One non tubeless Retard rims as do WTB Nanos on both rims. Lucky maybe?
Can't believe that people would chose tubes over tubeless these days. For me the reasons are obvious, higher volume tyre = reduced rolling resistance, improved grip and comfort. Rolling around on a pair of 23mm tyres @ 100psi+ just feels harsh and uncomfortable. Most of the roads I ride in these parts are country road with soft verges, lots of mud gets squished / washed onto the road along with tiny flints that shred tyres.
I'm still put off by the initial tubeless setup costs; the tubeless tyre costs; getting it all setup on the wheels; the durability of tubeless tyres; the ongoing costs of replacing latex animalised sealant; my obsession with regularly wanting to try different tyres etc.
The wheel upgrade for my road bike are tubeless ready and Merlin have https://www.merlincycles.com/hutchinson-fusion-5-all-season-11-storm-tlr-folding-road-tyre-700c-116846.html at a decent price for what are considered a decent tyre that apparently will last a fair few miles, but I just can't convince myself to pull the trigger.
I’m concerned about roadside repairs. Looks like I have to carry anchovies, a tool, a patch, glue and CO2 canister in addition to spare inner and pump that I carry now. Also I need a knife to cut off the anchovy…assuming that it works!
Erm, I just carry a tube & Co2. Been riding tubeless on the road for a year, and have only required the tube a couple of times because I haven't had enough sealant to do the job.
Had a rip once (huge piece of metal), but the sealant covered it to get home - just kept on blowing when I put too much pressure in, so binned it and replaced the tyre.
Can’t believe that people would chose tubes over tubeless these days.
Believe it mate.
Total convert for MTB for years now, but I get one or two flats a year on my road bikes (and I do ride thousands of miles) and love the feel of good 25mm tyres with tubes.
What do I really have to gain apart from faff and a lighter wallet?
I’m still put off by the initial tubeless setup costs; the tubeless tyre costs; getting it all setup on the wheels; the durability of tubeless tyres; the ongoing costs of replacing latex animalised sealant; my obsession with regularly wanting to try different tyres etc.
Panaracer Gravel Kings slicks. £30 each or £10 if using Tesco Vouchers at Evans.
Tubeless tape £2 from PX or a reel of gorilla tape.
Valves £3 a pair from PX
Goop a couple of quid from PX
The tyres cost about the same as normal road tyres anyway so it's about £10 to spend and he tubes you take out are now your ride spares.
Can't help with the tyre swap obsession, I can understand it on the MTB perhaps, but not on the road!
Tyre swap on the road is important. If I’m racing crits I don’t care about punctures, i want the fastest lightest 23mm tyre, generally with latex tubes but also sometimes tubeless. If I’m doing a road race, fast tubeless 25mm tyre. Spring and Autumn I’ll be using 28mm tyres and 32mm tyres during the winter. I’ll sometimes go with panracer gravel kings depending on the rides I’d be doing, sometimes a 33mm knobbly.
My reservation with tubeless on the road is the pressures I'd probably use with whizzy size tyres and the ability of the tubeless setup to seal at those pressures.
MTB tubeless at sub-30 psi will seal indefinately for small holes eg thorns. The tunes I've needed to repair a hole manually I've always had a healed hole blow it's plug out when inflating the tyre to seat it, typically at around 50psi. As such I'm reserved about tubeless for narrow road tyres being effective enough to just carry on riding as with mtb, when pressures will be around 80psi and the tyres low volume. So I would probably want a 38+mm tyre for tubeless.
Can anyone give some insight in to this? Am I just being a bit paranoid/sceptical about narrower/traditional size road tyres (28mm let's say) being unable to maintain a higher pressure with healed holes in?
I hope the above was clear, apologies if not.
That is my experience huckersneck - with sealant in both tubulars and tubeless road I occasionally got small punctures that would seal at low pressure, but would blow out at higher. Not often by any means, but enough to be noticeable.
This isn't really a problem for me as my main road miles are a shortish commute plus the occasional sportive. If you're bashing out serious road miles though it's more of a consideration.
It should be solved by better sealants but I don't think we're quite there yet - new ones get launched with claims of great performance, but I don't know of any that are a serious advance over stuff like Stans or cafelatex that have been around for ages.
My reservation with tubeless on the road is the pressures I’d probably use with whizzy size tyres and the ability of the tubeless setup to seal at those pressures.
This does seem to be the crux of it. Many suggest it is fine once you get into the wider gravel riding, casual fatty road riding tyre. Less so on 28mm and under.
I was swaying back to tubeless, feeling adventurous and all, but you've put me off a bit again. Finding it hard to get my head past the potential hassle.
Tubeless is great, Schwalbe Pro One work brilliantly, never had a puncture that has failed to seal. I have had one that went down quite a lot - down to 20PSI, but the goo had dried up a lot..
I'm also having a great deal of success avoiding punctures with Latex tubes and Conti GP4S. Not had a single puncture over 2 winters with this set up.
I will stick with Tubeless in summer, mainly down to the rolling resistance gains.
I am always amazed on these threads by how many punctures you lot get. I haven't had a puncture on a road bike (tubed) for approx. 8 years!
had schwalbe pro ones tubeless in 28mm guise for about 1500 miles, in that time i had 3 punctures that would not seal... maybe i was running too low a pressure? 60psi fwiw, i'm 85kg, bike is 8kg
i switched them to hutchinson sectors (28mm again), so far so good, but run them at 80 psi, fingers remain firmly crossed!....
when i took the pro ones off, the front one had punctured twice without me even knowing (there were the tell tale signs on the inside of the tyre) i'd only had punctures on the rear tyre
Just converted my road bike to tubeless.
Shimano wheelset and Hutchinson Fusion 5 all season's. The tyres go on and off as easily as normal tyres (maybe even easier than the schwalbe's that came off!). The only faff was the valves, Shimano wheels need shimano valves apparently and I must have binned them. New ones are £30 a pair! No other valves will fit/work in those rims (I tried everything from hutchinson, uberbike, mavic, stans and some chinese ones which got closest).
So far no problems.
The only time I can see them leaving me stranded would be if I got puncture, couldn't patch/plug it and for some reason couldn't get all the old thorns out so a tube wouldn't seal. But that's a problem on a problem on a problem. Probably getting on for more likely to get more punctures than you have patches with normal tubes.
No need for CO2, it went up 1st time with a mini-pump, although I tend to carry it anyway as it's convenient on group rides.
have to say, I've found Pro One to be flimsy too (the original ONE was heavier but more robust)
Can’t believe that people would chose tubes over tubeless these days. For me the reasons are obvious, higher volume tyre = reduced rolling resistance, improved grip and comfort. Rolling around on a pair of 23mm tyres @ 100psi+ just feels harsh and uncomfortable.
I mostly rolled around on 28mm tyres and tubes at 70 psi last year. Fast and comfortable. The tubeless tyres I tried were 30mm, also fast and comfortable.
I don't think there was a huge amount to choose between the two options for me. Tubeless will give better puncture protection, but as someone pointed out above, punctures are so rare with modern tyres that even that is not a killer reason to change.
, but as someone pointed out above, punctures are so rare with modern tyres that even that is not a killer reason to change
Err not, I’ve seen plenty of peaple with punctures the last couple of weeks.
All depends where your riding, if there’s a lot of trees an wind this ends up a puncturefest.
have to say, I’ve found Pro One to be flimsy too (the original ONE was heavier but more robust)
I agree but tbh I do really like them and apparentltly Josh Ibbett’s running them tubeless.
He sorta rides er a bit further than most of us.
All depends where your riding, if there’s a lot of trees an wind this ends up a puncturefest.
I haven't done much riding that didn't feature trees and wind in the past 40 years. My daily commute involves potholes, dirt track, hedge lined roads, urban tarmac. I must be very lucky, because puncturing is a rare inconvenience!
