[Closed] Cannock's braking bumps, I've figured out why they're there (mini rant)

I was on the rigid SS

my chain snapped

I can see why you'd want to have a rant

I saw a vid of someone doing that last week, every single berm was skidded through.

Whilst skidding round corners isn't going to do the trail any favours, I doubt he is personally responsible for Cannock's braking bumps.

I think that has much more to do with the type of earth they have and the shear volume of people using the trails. There are plenty of sections of blown out trail and they're not all just before a corner.

I can see why you'd want to have a rant

Could be a seperate rant, £15 for an 8s chain at halfords thats £5 on CRC!

They're there because Cannock is basically a dried-up prehistoric riverbed and is within an hour's drive for 7 million people

Ever noticed the ripples in the road on the way into a corner or near to a junction where everyone brakes/changes gear at the same time?

Same thing.

Are you trying to say that most corners or junctions on the road are also dried-up prehistoric riverbeds too? 😕

£15 for an 8s chain at halfords thats £5 on CRC!

Rob likes these:
http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/kmc-z610-hx-chain-332-41-p.asp

Rocketman...

I quite like riding braking bumps.

Rob likes these:

It wasn't the chains fault, I had the chainring work itself loose and come off a few weeks back and I reckon that probably put enough twist in the chain to weaken it. New chain is a Clarks one so we'll see how it lasts.

I quite like riding braking bumps.

I think they add something to an otherwise benign section of tail too, but where the trails been built like Cannock and people have put the effort into making the trail a certain way I seems a bit like going to the National Portrait Gallary and adding glasses and a moustache to the paintings because you wanted to.

I was riding at Cheddar moto-cross track yesterday, and there were braking bumps there too. Added to that the track was made of mud, which is very slippery. To top it off some of the gradients are arranged in such a way that if you rode at them too fast you actually left the ground!!

How are you meant to enjoy an off-road racing sports activity in these conditions!

I'm glad that mountain bikers, unlike moto-crossers, don't put up with this sort of thing.

Perhaps all the foreign types were over to take our Cannock Strava KOM's?

Perhaps all the foreign types were over to take our Cannock Strava KOM's?

Based on the avreage speed differentail between them and the Brummies I'd suspec that either:

The KOM list will either be full of Pierre's and Nico's, or they didn't work in IT and drive an audi therefore not bothered about Strava.

A hearty shout of 'STOP SKIDDDING !' at muppets is good karma.

Last time I went to Cannock there were braking bumps even on the tiny sloping straight sections that 5 meter further along had a climb coming up. I would imagine that a guy who comfortably skids around corners with his back wheel locked out wouldn't have created those bumps as well so the vast majority of the braking bumps I would have thought would have been created by relative beginners who still only look about 1 meter ahead of their front wheel.

Roost - tyres breaking loose in the turn and kicking up surface. If you're cool, skilled, talented you inevitably generate tonnes of roost when you're out riding. If you're not so skilled, but want to appear so, apply the back brake and skid to generate the roost.

Just someone trying hard to appear awesome.

LOL at mountain bikers moaning about braking bumps. You're riding an 'off road' bicycle, get over it.

Go and ride an mx bike, ideally on a sand track, then you'll see what real braking bumps are.

Every corner he was locked up under braking, then skidded the back wheel round

Shred it! Roost it! 'Rip up the Trails' TM

Unless you're roosting, you're not riding..

Deanfbm has it. Too many vids of loamy fresh new trails ridden by talented pinners watched, too many over-used trail centres ridden lamely in reality?

Roost - tyres breaking loose in the turn and kicking up surface. If you're cool, skilled, talented you inevitably generate tonnes of roost when you're out riding. If you're not so skilled, but want to appear so, apply the back brake and skid to generate the roost.

Just someone trying hard to appear awesome.

Those were pretty much my thoughts.

LOL at mountain bikers moaning about braking bumps. You're riding an 'off road' bicycle, get over it.

I was riding at Cheddar moto-cross track yesterday

CLANGGGGGGGGGGGGGG I think you dropped something, sounded like an ego or a massive dose of willy wave as everyone knows an MX bike is impossible to ride without a 12" peice. I think I just got pregnant at the very thought of you wheelieing past in ahaze of 2 stroke and testosterone.

I CBA to go back and read the thread, but has anyone actualy complained about the bumps, the issue is with people erroding the trail unnececeraly, you could have 100 people ride it 'properly' or 1 guy skid through it causing the same errosion making it rougher for the other 99 and eventualy hastening the trail being washed away down the hill.

Mountain biking is motocross (or enduro) with pedals, bumps are part of the sport. 🙂

Based on the avreage speed differentail between them and the Brummies

Cannock is in staffordshire and much nearer yam yam land, don't tar us all with that brush

Rocketdog, yes but the tourist trails are always full of loud obnoxious Brummie folk shouting 'ARRR ITS AAAAYYYISSS AYYY IIIIT'. Staffordians cycle stick to trails within the Parish of Berkswich to the North end of the AONB.

ARRR ITS AAAAYYYISSS AYYY IIIIT

100 people ride it 'properly' or 1 guy skid through it causing the same errosion

No it wouldn't. If everyone rides the trail at exactly the same speed all the way round braking bumps will occur.

[url= http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/trek/s315126.htm ]link[/url]

I was riding at Cheddar moto-cross track yesterday, and there were braking bumps there too. Added to that the track was made of mud, which is very slippery. To top it off some of the gradients are arranged in such a way that if you rode at them too fast you actually left the ground!!

How are you meant to enjoy an off-road racing sports activity in these conditions!

I'm glad that mountain bikers, unlike moto-crossers, don't put up with this sort of thing.

You sir, win this thread.

Fancy moaning about braking bumps, it's part of mountain biking (especially downhill) and motorcross. Hit them relaxed and at speed and you just float over them!

IMO Roadies need to stay out of mountain biking and stop turning the trails into smooth hard packed gravel for the rest of us.

I also like the braking bumps (I've loads of suspension travel) but its a shame the berms have been destroyed.

On constructed trails, braking bumps = damage. I've no problem with riding them, but they retain water and let it into the armoured surface, and amplify damage. Soon, it breaks up, and ceases to be an armoured trail, and once that's happened the trailbuilders have to go back and fix it. Which leads directly to 2 things... 1) people complaining that the trail's too smooth and sanitised, and 2) Less new trails.

Anyone thinking there's 2 choices, smooth vs braking bumps, is completely wrong. Constructed trails have 3 stages to their lives- brand new, worn in, and worn out. The good stage is generally the worn-in one, but accelerated damage makes that stage short, and ironically means the trail gets rebuilt and ends up back at the featureless brand-new stage much faster.

Northwind speaks the truth.

if you have to skid round a switchback, you're riding it wrong.

Descent not decent.

'ARRR ITS AAAAYYYISSS AYYY IIIIT'.

🙂 Superb. Very funny.

Par for the course at Cannock, I ride there a couple of times a week and you just live with them and enjoy it for what it is, end of the day it's a red route used by hundreds of people a day if not more - it's going to happen. I really don't get the amount of threads on here about bumps on a mtb trail!

If you want less of that kind of thing hunt out some of the off piste stuff or head the extra hour north to the Peaks!

And it's not just the foreigners who show you up, I was ending a lap heading back to the car the other weekend when an old boy followed me up from the train crossing, overtook me up one of the hills a couple of km later and then waited at MD to thank me for inspiring him to keep up with me at the ripe old age of 60 (over twice my age). Needless to say I was suitably embarrassed and skipped the usual pie and pint on the way home...

Haha funny as ! Best thread in ages, yes it was me who is responsible for all the breaking bumps pmsl

i could get offended at this post due to the lying in a ditch some where but the best part is i didn't see him he took a short cut haha . I remember being behind you on the descent just before you over cooked it . after that i held the gate open for you over the rail way line and you completely blanked me. i even offered you went in front of me at the climb after the railway but you said noyou have gears mate , you've got ge ars go ahead ` so i climb to the top and rested , shortly after that you arrived at the top , i let you go a head then i don't see you until the top of the next climb, where your talking to 2 guys. i carry on and finish the monkey and see no trace of you.... then i complete a lap of the dog and i never see you again !

So your upset i was behind you when you over cooked it the corner or i was quicker around the monkey. that's the way i see it. Next time (im over there quite often, as you state and yes i do ride other places ) why don't you say hello. ill look out for you and you can say it to my face not on a forum ....

Anyway I've been mtbing for 15 years and love it, had quite a few friendly chats along the way and tagged along with a few good riders , oh and im now famous my first thread about me on STW after nearly 6 years and lol 🙂

you, you are/you're. please.

Northwind - Member

On constructed trails, braking bumps = damage. I've no problem with riding them, but they retain water and let it into the armoured surface, and amplify damage. Soon, it breaks up, and ceases to be an armoured trail, and once that's happened the trailbuilders have to go back and fix it. Which leads directly to 2 things... 1) people complaining that the trail's too smooth and sanitised, and 2) Less new trails.

Anyone thinking there's 2 choices, smooth vs braking bumps, is completely wrong. Constructed trails have 3 stages to their lives- brand new, worn in, and worn out. The good stage is generally the worn-in one, but accelerated damage makes that stage short, and ironically means the trail gets rebuilt and ends up back at the featureless brand-new stage much faster.

+1

So your upset i was behind you when you over cooked it the corner or i was quicker around the monkey. that's the way i see it.

Er, pretty sure it was the pointless skidding that was the issue.

rocketman - Member

ARRR ITS AAAAYYYISSS AYYY IIIIT

ARRR ITS [s]AAAAYYYISSS[/s] BOSTIN AYYY IIIIT

Pointless skidding so you were there then? Oh dear don't always believe what you read.

I saw him twice and one of those times i was on a hill lol

Cannock, Brum, Black Country - they all sound the same to me.

😉

Yow ay from round here then me Mon 😉

Some might know that there's a Brummie influence behind the trails anyway...

Skidding on the trails is sh1t, pointless and disrespectful to the 000's of hours of unpaid volunteer effort put in to developing a range of trails on a shoestring.

Cutting the crap the FC don't have the funds to dedicate the resources needed to keep everything perfect (car parking fees don't pay for all that much) and when all said and done they are mountain bike trails and a level of un-eveness is not unreasonable.

Where it not for people skidding the arses off their bike things would be better but hey ho I guess we have to take the rough with the smooth ;o)

Cannock's problem is it's made of SAND!! There is very littlt to hold it all together. It should probably be shut in wet weather.

From what I remember of the old follow the dog do you need brakes?

FWIW if the braking bumps don't fit a bike in them then they are not too bad

Cracks me up that you are all worrying about braking bumps.

[img] [/img]

In order to avoid argument on my next visit I have now removed my rear brake.

Cracks me up that you are all worrying about braking bumps.

Cutting the crap the FC don't have the funds to dedicate the resources needed to keep everything perfect (car parking fees don't pay for all that much) and when all said and done they are mountain bike trails and a level of un-eveness is not unreasonable.

They need to start charging then or something. Surely bike parks need to expect very high levels of bike related wear and tear; if they want to provide smooth and sanitised trails then they have to build that into the equation? If not its going to fail, just a question of time.

IMO bumps and holes are part of the fun. Trails are very boring with out them.

Cannock, Brum, Black Country - they all sound the same to me.

THE WALSALL HIPPO OBJECTS TO YOUR HERESY!

[img] [/img]

No idea who you are but I'd have enjoyed watching you pull up a total stranger for skidding in corners. WTF?

what about new riders who use the back brake to scrub off speed into and down everything and are still learning? can we ban new riders from entering OUR woods please, messing it up for all us riding gods.

skills course certificate before being allowed entry into the singletrack is a mimimum! the bonus of keeping learner/new/riders who generally aren't as awesome as all of us away from OUR woods is that we wont ever get held up on the trails by slower people and best of all the market for BSO's will drop and the industry can focus on only making expensive proper bikes, the effect of this will mean bike nobody will be investing money into the industry until they're bloody well good enough.

The braking bumps don't generally detract from the trails hence the jokes on here about them being dangerous. However for small sections like the tac berms the builders could have moved away from locally sourced material for added durablity?

However for small sections like the tac berms the builders could have moved away from locally sourced material for added durablity?

Current stance by the FC is that they want us to use locally sourced material only, which unfortunately as it's mainly a sand/clay mix it isn't particularly good for building durable trails with... Hopefully something will be agreed upon soon though, and they are aware of the maintenance issues on the trails (i.e. a handful of volunteers can't cope with maintaining the whole thing).

ARRR ITS BOSTIN AYYY IIIIT

Tina's quiet...

thepodge - Member
I saw a vid of someone doing that last week, every single berm was skidded through.

[paranoid mode]I posted a vid last week, is it the one you're referring to? If so, sorry to disappoint. The only skid is @ 0.52, where my buddy mis-read the trail (it's a badly designed bit imo) so he skidded and I skidded so as not to hit him. The rest is just aweZome skillZ on a very loose trail 😉 .[paranoid mode]

If this is not the video in question, then crack on...

Pretty sure it's against forum policy to post a video of your cock

Are braking bumps not a part of the original design in the trail centres near large populations? The builders could save us all a lot of unnecessary brake and tyre wear if they just put them in in the first place.

Tina's quiet...

Am I?

I wandered off when it degenerated into debate about the merits of braking bumps and willy waveing fest.

Sory Jamesy if you thought I blanked you, I said hi/thanks at the gate but thought you blanked me, wasn't being rude and didn't know the way after the crossing hence riding round you and letting you past after the MX gate/stile.

Nothing personal but you were by far the worst offender for skidding unececeraly (and the other people doing it tended to be groms so forgiveable), you were locking up on the straights going into every corner then locking up mid corner to skid round. A little bit of smoothness and riding round the corner rather than into it and the trail would last much longer and it's quicker than skidding and losing all that momentum anyway, and on the straights braking is more efficient if you're not locked up. You were clearly quite a quick rider and spend a fair ammount of time/money cycling, which is why I was annoyed that you were deliberately locking up (or didn't know any better).

It doesn't afect me personaly which is why I kept my mouth shut (perhapse I was being quiet as I'm a believer in "if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all, but go rant about it later") but there were voulenteers carting wheelbarrows of trail about somewhere just after the Marquis' drive car park who were giving up their Sunday so that we could ride and I think their effort's deserve a little respect.

Ohhh, and overcooked is a little exadgerated, overshot would be a better description, the front wheel followed an inside rut rather than the propper outside line I should have aimed for round the berm/switchback so I was mid corner stil pointing directly down the hill and couldn't turn in any harder to make the exit. Still did it without locking up, maybe if I'd locked the back wheel I'd have made it round 😛

i don't see you until the top of the next climb, where your talking to 2 guys.

I saw a vid of someone doing that last week, every single berm was skidded through.

That (assuming that's the right video) is borderline drifting, Jamesy's skidding was more of the ride upto the corner on the inside, plonk front wheel on apex and lock up the back to skid it round 180deg. That video just blows the loose surface out to the edge which is how natural berms form, Jamesy's was more digging a hole through the track in the first third of the corner.

I think a lot so the 'braking bumps' on the Canmnock trails aren't acutally braking bumps at all. They're the remnants of the orginal FC forestation where the young trees are planted by machine in ploughed ridges. The furrows created to produce these ridges will always trap water and with the number of tyres going through the puddles produced washes out some of the loose backfill in the furrows, resulting in what appears to be braking bumps.

If you look carefully you'll see that a lot of them are very evenly spaced and of a similar size.

I'm not saying this explains all of them but it certainly covers a significant number, especially those on the straighter section of trails.

On the cheeky trails, perhaps?

Sory Jamesy if you thought I blanked you, I said hi/thanks at the gate but thought you blanked me

I think I sense a bromance developing.

what about new riders who use the back brake to scrub off speed into and down everything and are still learning? can we ban new riders from entering OUR woods please, messing it up for all us riding gods

Yes, This... 😀

just oil the rear disk, this will stop people locking up . . . .

I think I sense a bromance developing.

shotgun big spoon

At the ... "track where the sport that must not be named lest thisisnotaspoon ends up bearing twins" is done, the braking bumps only appear after the experts have been out - I doubt skidding has much to do with it, those guys brake late, hard, and effectively.[1]

So keep the rubbish riders, ban the GOOD riders - and in case The Pinkster is right, ban the forestry commission too.

[1] First time I really hit the powerband on my crosser, I accelerated about one quarter of the way from one corner to the other, locked up and skidded the other three quarters, and didn't go round the corner... Right ratio, wrong order, poor outcome. 😆

However for small sections like the tac berms the builders could have moved away from locally sourced material for added durablity?

Section 11 was closed for quite a while as different parts of the trail were resurfaced with different combinations of materials (not sure if they were all locally sourced) - the idea was to see which combinations work the best, I think. [url= http://www.forestry.gov.uk/newsrele.nsf/fa97f2ec59ab86108025751b004c36d8/1ae6ec93d9db6300802579d000523798!OpenDocument ]There was also a large donation of delicious grit and sand recently from a local quarry.[/url]

trail centers are busy and full of insteado-golfers on bikes shocker.

tell you how to get round it: see those dashes on OS maps? go ride a few of them.

tell you how to get round it: see those dashes on OS maps? go ride a few of them.

Indeed, I rode some lovely footpaths arround Ranmoor/Rivelin Valley later that afternoon 😛

^^^ i would stick to foot paths if i was you. half of what you said up there is utter crap. think before you slag some one of on an internet forum. Im sure ill get held up by you going down hill and you will just ignore the fact im behind you... then get annoyed when i over take you .... anyway im not arguing with some utter pillock on here who can't even state facts correctly, as i said previously i ride ov :oops:er cannock pretty often, i remember you on a blue singular swift , ill keep an eye out for you, that's if im not lying in a ditch some where as you stated earlier. what kind of acomment is that ? I rode all day Sunday , had a good day aswell i only met one tool all day and it looks like that was you TINA. NOW SOD OFF before you make matters worse for yourself .

The solution to trails wearing out is to build on very shallow soil with bedrock underneath, like at Cwmcarn. The trail just keeps getting better 🙂

The only place i've noticed the braking bumps really getting in the way is the descent of Tacks blast but with all the traffic that flows down there its no wonder it's been cut up.

As said, with the trail made of sand it's not going to last, especially with the rain, a ride around the Blue route shows the damage the rain has done in other sections.

Blue Singular you say??? Did I see you one evening last week at the top of those second set of rocks on Upper Cliff Descent

Blue Singular you say??? Did I see you one evening last week at the top of those second set of rocks on Upper Cliff Descent

Unless Upper Cliff is in Yorkshire then probably not 😛

No Cannock I meant - how were the braking bumps in Yorkshire?

No Cannock I meant - how were the braking bumps in Yorkshire?

There're a couple of ruts coming into the last corner of Les's in Guisbrough and the first decent at Dalby where the red is still part of the blue but other than that we're braking bump free as far as I can tell, definately off-piste and natural trails anyway 🙂

Ruts? Nasty business!

Ruts? Nasty business!

I know, they almost made me spill my Pimms!

Me earlier donning weekend warrior goggles and an early prototype Urge Endur-o-matic to take on some gnarly ruts to defend the Peoples Republic of Yorkshire from back brake draggers.
[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfUWC_YmyBnzLEzDg-xAC6xuNEXj2F75vIeiWSdWdBSZIKGM8AgHPevsZX [/img]

to defend the Peoples Republic of Yorkshire from back brake draggers.

Jamsy, you have been warned!!!

this thread got interesting again....

Pmsl. if anybody fancies a good blast around cannock sunday, your more than welcome to check out my back brake dragging skillz 😉 and you can all judge for yourselfs my crap biking skillz ay it 🙂

Pmsl. if anybody fancies a good blast around cannock sunday, your more than welcome to check out my back brake dragging skillz and you can all judge for yourselfs my crap biking skillz ay it

I might actualy be about to heckle 😛

I never said you were crap (I actualy said you were quite quick/good), I said you deliberately skidded, easy enough to remedy and I suspect you'll not do it again, OTHERWISE I'LL BE AT MY KEYBOARD WAITING!

[b][u]HE'S NOT THE MESIAH, HE'S A VERY NAUGHTY BOY[/b][/u]
[img] [/img]

I think I'm going to take a 450 KTM round Cannock just to piss off Mr Spoon.

I think I'm going to take a 450 KTM round Cannock just to piss off Mr Spoon.

(He lost too, but they should've done an aggregate time of down, then back up! 😆 )

I might actualy be about to heckle

Are you going to dress up real nice for him?