[Closed] Cannock Monkey Trail, doomed??

it rained most of yesterday afternoon and last night, so that'll help, the dryest April around here for years hasn't, but i'm sure it'll be ok

Cannock is always very loose in the dry, it's a brand new trail thats had a heck of a lot of traffic with no rain to bed in the trail. Like rocketdog said a few rain showers and a bit of tlc and it will bed in nicely.

people said the same about follow the dog and several years on its evolved into a great trail.

The big area of concern are the berms and downhill switchbacks. Sadly nearly all are already wrecked.
The man made sections over the chase have always sufferred with breaking up. The ground there has a large sand content. The rain will only wash the sand away and riding it in the wet will not help.
Riders need to slow down before the berms and switchbacks rather than skidding into them IMO this is what is killing the trails.
That said, it is a great acheivement by all the people who built this, I just hope we can all treat it wisely.

Tarmac, its the only way.

It's a new trail and requires a good period of bedding in, key sections were finished in the weeks before the launch during an extremely dry period.

The trail will inevitably cut up and Chase Trails together with the FC and the Contractor have already commenced intial inspections to start to schedule out the areas where snagging and or repairs are required.

Rushing this would be wrong, further time is needed for lines to develop and rain to fall. In the absence of good rainfall during the bedding in process before the trail is opened the next best thing is what is happening now, rainfall with tyre traffic.

Chase Trails will continue to work every week to complete sectiosn which have yet to be opened and at the right time, start on the repairs to the newly bedded in section.

The basic fact is that the trail has been well designed and built to ensure a sustainable profile along it's route, broken edges and isolated rutting is manageable bad profiling and grading would be an issue as this would represent a fundemental shortfall in the trail.

It also doesn't help that such a high number of riders seem to think their motocross stars and delight in skidding the arse out of the their bikes diown all the descents. If you're rerading this and are one of the "roost" brigade take not.

+1 scruff.
🙂

I rode it last night and it's definitely got potential, but is going to need a huge amount of repair work. They were certainly thinking big with their choice of lines, and it seems like most it should be fairly safe for novices because it's difficult to build much speed.

There are a couple of closures already - not sure if that's because of the erosion or because of bad crashes.

The closure at the end is due to FC operations. Repair work will be insignificant compared to the effort put into the trail by the volunteers to date.

Difficult to build up speed?? Are you mad...

There's a balance to be had between:

Building something out of the local materials in a cost effective way and expecting people to ride with "respect" for the construction's "weaknesses".

and

Building a trail of a nature that will withstand the riders / use / behaviour that it will receive.

I'd love the former to be the case but, IMO, it's probably unrealistic. People ride how they ride, better (if you can) to take that on board at the design and construction stages.

(Comments made in ignorance of any of the specifics of the Monkey Trail, not trying to apply perfect hindsight etc)

Only time will tell how a trail will turn out and even then it'll often continue to change with riding, weathering and erosion (albeit usually slower than during the first bedding in period). The bedding in period is another balance (or happenstance) of construction, use and weather. I bet it'll be generally fine and what isn't will be sorted. Trails evolve, vary and morph over time, it's just something to be expected and embraced (because it's unavoidable, unless you want black top ;-). It's only the degree of change and a large dose of subjectivity that determines whether it's a "success" or "failure".

However, diggers always prefer to hear nice things about their trails. That's how it should be, better to encourage and keep people enthused (for the repair work!) than wear them down under criticism and negativity. There's a way of engaging and providing constructive feedback. And of course there's the other chestnut, it'd be great to see all those with such keen and perceptive talents at digs to help rectify issues.

😎
Tim, SingletrAction

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Well said Tim. The use of local materials is particularly relevant in our case.

The abundance of sand / gravel on Cannock Chase means that we can build a lot of trail for relatively* little money. However our local material has it's limitations which certainly don't flatter bad trail building techniques.

Constructive critism can only be welcome along with the praise that people offer It is infuriating when people post up with bold and at time ill-informed statements which are in fact their own personal opinions or axes being ground.

*The Monkey Trail has still cost in the region of £200k of cash and in kind support.

+2 what Cheeky said. Building trails is an art, not a science.

Us "thin skiined" volunteer trail builders need to stick together 😉

I saw Huw at the WC in Dalby and he was raving about the new stuff you'd both been involved with at Cannock, glad to hear it's going well.

Knacker is riding the Monkey this Sunday to see if he can steal any ideas for Stainburn 😉 All you need now is a pump track.

Edit: the first line is tongue-in-cheek but I have come across people that feel volunteer trailbuilding groups are elitist / closed / something "other". All I can say is, predominantly based on my experience of SingletrAction, that that couldn't be farther from the truth. I don't know if the perception is common and puts people off participating but it's crazy. We welcome anyone and everyone daft enough to have a go.

The only thing we're a touch chippy about is what has been mentioned above, folks jumping straight in with both boots about designs and building. People need to get to know each other a bit before going all "clever bugger" 😉

Pump tracks are for Northern Monkeys 😡

Mr Agreeable - Member

+2 what Cheeky said. Building trails is an art, not a science.

Ant, I bet you're looking forward to the shit that's coming your way if and when the Bristol trails are developed. 😉

Difficult to build up speed?? Are you mad...

As I don't know the new stuff like the back of my hand, I found I was constantly braking into corners (not skidding, honest) whereas most of the welsh trail centres I've ridden are more flowing. There's much less grip at Cannock, of course.

There are only a few sections where I could see far enough ahead to let the brakes off properly, but those felt really good to ride.

I'll certainly be back!

Pump tracks are for Northern Monkeys

Yes?

Ant, I bet you're looking forward to the shit that's coming your way if and when the Bristol trails are developed.

I'm not involved directly in the design or building of the new trails (except for 50 Acre, which is just going to keep being gradually improved).

Who said you needed to be involved to get the blame. 😉

If only pump tracks would go up in popularity, I think the muscle groups it works would help boost handcars into being a more viable form of transport.

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The Monkey is right next to a railway too, it'd be perfect.

All you need now is a pump track.

Can't you guys get one built over lunch 😉 That would be a nice addition.

Is Cannock normally quiet after 6pm during the week? I think I might nip over tonight rather than run the gauntlet this weekend and try out monkey.

Who said you needed to be involved to get the blame.

Well, very true. There's no shortage of moaners out there already mind - just look at those people who can't understand why they get grumbled at if they're riding it the wrong way round on a lovely sunny day. 😉

I'll be riding the Monkey for the first time this weekend on Sat and Sun. Hopefully I'll pick a "quiet time" if there is one.

@crell if you do that, let us know what you think. I'd really like to get the teams there for a ride sometime before Mayhem

Will do Pete. Just negotiated the pass so it looks like all systems are go for tonight.

I rode the Monkey Trail for the first time on Monday evening and thought it was excellent, although some areas did appear to be getting quite badly eroded.
Most of the wear seemed to be people over-cooking it into corners and braking hard, or going off the edge of the trail.

I am really impressed with the faciilities at Cannock, the way the trails are marked etc. and am a bit gutted that the FC over at Thetford don't seem to be interested in doing a similar style of trail, but perservere with the family oriented highways they seem intent on ploughing through the place. They should go & take a look at what everyone at Cannock have achieved.

I rode it on Tuesday, got there at 8am, blasted around, and I thought it was great.

A couple of the corners have been blown out - mainly in the first set of downhill switchbacks after the road crossing, which were on a hillside that's exposed so presumably more likely to dry out quicker.

I particularly liked the use of rapid height gain - I know a lot of people are against switchbacks, but I thought for the sake of a couple of minutes' effort you end up back up relatively high. That said, the first climb after the road nearly had me on my arris, and I anticipate it being something of a bottleneck at weekends.

I was extremely frustrated at my riding though - I was out on my own, and riding in SPDs for only the second time, so I did a *lot* of mincing over the more technical stuff, as I was scared of riding it clipped in. Love to go back on flats, though.

The penultimate descent (near the black rock section) was great, though, the berms were fantastic and I disagree with being unable to keep speed up - most of the trails are well designed to keep you flowing - I particularly liked the humps just before a dip so you get the propulsion up the next hill!

I was a tad flummoxed at the use of fire road in the middle bit - two fast fire road descents, with the option of 'short cut' or 'long route' - I took the longer route, only to find it was a longer fire road run that took me right back to where the short cut would have taken me. It looked like there was some bits of trail in the woods there that were waiting to be opened, though, so that could be good.

My only real concern was that the large rollers (I'm assuming they're meant to be rollers, as if they're doubles I didn't think there was enough of a run out between each set) at the end near the car park will result in a lot of kids crossing the road to play on them, which could end up in a pile up.

I think it's a great addition to the Chase, and a nice step up in grade from the Dog, which itself has developed well since it initially opened.

Good work chaps.

It has to be said tho the bits that weren't cutting up rode lovely. Far too many vicious up hills for my fat ass tho. I was proper spent on arriving back at the car park!!

just got back - liked it. In Birmingham for the weekend, so might go back up tomorrow and try it on my full suss (hardtail 29er today).

Certainly true that in some areas unnecessary/excessive braking is tearing it up, but if I wanted to ride perfectly flat stuff I'd have a road bike and due to teh sandy nature of teh ground I'm not sure it'll be possible to totally prevent that.

Switchbacks were fine and allow you to gain height quickly - don't really understand some peoples issues; they're just corners! I suspect those who like the technical stuff may not make more than one visit.

There was one section where we lost quite a bit of height on fire roads; would I be right to assume there are plans to avoid that?

On the whole - good work and hats off to the trailbuiders

Pete, [url= http://www.vholdr.com/video/cannock-chase-monkey-trail-down-road-rail ]a video to whet your appetite[/url]. I liked it, it's a bigger version of FTD. I did skip one section (upper cliff) as it was getting late and I had no lights - which was a bugger in the trees. The switchbacks are fun. I dabbed a couple in one section but the rest were rideable. What I really liked was you could just use the trail to give you the speed in many places. The track condition isn't bad at all, just a couple of hot spots with people skidding in to corners. It doesn't detract - it's just another thing to take in to account. Considering Cannock is hardly alpine, they've made good use of the available height. If some of the fire roads could be kicked in to touch it would be even better.

Can anyone tell me what time the car park shuts ar Birches? I got back to the car at 8.45 and I was the only car there. With there being a gate there I was worried about getting locked in.

Also, there was a diversion on the short climb as you approach Penkridge Bank. I followed a fire road from there to Birches - did I miss a sign back on to the trail or is that whole section closed?

Anyone? ...

I guess you missed the entrance to the last 'Tackeroo' section. Not been fully closed since opening

its the one with the rollers and berms at the end.

I road it yesterday, great trail, i did not notice any major cutting up just bedding in, come on we are mountain biking not road biking. A big thanks to all who created it...

Well said Reg! I rode it today and thought it was a really good trail. Busy and full of noobs, but a great trail!

Some people are never happy 😆

I tried the Monkey Trail for the first time last night with my 13 year old son and thought it was really good. I haven't been to any of the other trail centres in a few years but it was very reminiscent in places of Coed_y_Brenin in the early days. I also think that some people will select the best bits and miss out some of the link sections though, as we used to do at Coed_y_Brenin some time ago. For me, living so close and having this in my back yard, is great and a really good way for my son to hone his skills now that FTD poses less of a technical challenge. If people want more, from what I have heard, there are other trail centres which will provide the challenge they seek.
Finally, M8 trail was really good with nice jumps and excellent flow and a great finish to a thoroughly enjoyable evening.

Well done and thank you to Chase Trail's. 🙂

Car park at Birches is supposed to close at dusk - [url= http://www.forestry.gov.uk/website/Recreation.nsf/LUwebdocsBykey/EnglandStaffordshireNoForestCannockForestBirchesValleyForestCentre ]6th paragraph down[/url]

Slow you down there, I was just saying I was worried for the trails longevity! The big climb after the first road crossing is really cut up, and with a good few British downpours I can see the sand washing away from the aggregate and basically leaving just washed gravel behind!!! Which as if you've rode ftd on the steep short climb is a bitch!!

@crell nice vid, thanks. Glad you avoided any wood related mishaps.