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Anyone running one of these? Specifically the PF41 version?
My 2019 Jeffsy has done 250km, 95% of that in slop and mud, and the BB is starting to feel a little rough, like there's not much grease in there. It spins fine, and doesn't creak, just feels a little 'loose' if you get my drift.
It's a BB92 (PF41?) with a 30mm spindle on the E13 cranks, so I'm very tempted, whilst we're in lockdown, to replace it with a Cane Creek Hellbender BB with those fancy new SKF MTRX bearing which should be able to survive a nuclear strike/zombie apocalypse/UK winter.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about:
It retains the balls, whilst providing constant lubrication. Sold!
Also, what headset/bottom bracket/bearing press kit that I don't need a 2nd mortgage for?
No-one?
I removed my E13 crank this morning, the single and inside the BB shell was coated in brown gunk - I guess that's what happens when you have to wash the bike after every. single. ride. that it's ever been on... 🙁
The non driveside bearing is fine, but the drive side is rough and already has a little play so I'm about to press buy on the £120 Hellbender BB, x-tools press fit tool and bearing remover tool to get it replaced.
Will report back in case anyone is thinking of fitting one. There's no advantage in going for a Hope BB as the cups don't screw together on the 30mm model, only on the Chris king BB.
They are “quite” pricey, so there may be very few people using them that can report back to you. I considered them, as they seem ideal for UK riding, only the price stopped me.
Yeah they are, 2x the price of a Hope PF41 30mm, the Chris king BB is £165 though!
If the bearings last as long as they should it'll be worth it. The main issue being dirt and grime ingress which is what has started to kill mine already, after not that many rides/months, just one UK winter!
Velofrog on here is selling his Ti Enigma in the classifieds that is running a Hellbender with a CC Ti chainset.
The advert links to the Retrobike build thread that has some lovely pics 😉
I'd ask his view 🙂
As a side I have seen that some of the German sites have the bearings for sale individually. Could you replace then bearings in your current BB?
As a side I have seen that some of the German sites have the bearings for sale individually. Could you replace then bearings in your current BB?
Not in a 30mm PF41, the outer race of the bearing IS the PF cup, as there' not enough room for the BB cup, then the bearing outer race, then the bearings and inner race.
Velofrog on here is selling his Ti Enigma in the classifieds that is running a Hellbender with a CC Ti chainset.
The advert links to the Retrobike build thread that has some lovely pics 😉
I’d ask his view
Cheers, although I don't think he's had it long enough to report back on longevity!
Ordered now so will give the BB a proper clean up and fit the new BB when it arrives. Once we can actually go riding again I've got some big rides planned so I'd rather my BB not explode halfway up/down a mountain!!
Please let us know how you get on.
I would like a decent solution for 30mm spindles in PF41 cranks (I know its a bad design/idea, but plenty bikes have them). The Hope ones I have seen on customers bikes have not lasted.
If its anything like the cane creek 110 headset I had on my touring bike then it will be great.
How much are replacement bearings for when they finally go?
As above, you can't replace the bearings only on the PF41 model, as they're part of the BB.
Not sure about the other ones they make (threaded, PF30).
So, I'm going to go ahead and say, without doubt, that the seals on the E13 BB are made of shite.
It has a centre tube which seals the BB area, and yet this is what it looks like after 6 months and 250km:
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And this is how the crank spindle looked on pulling it out:
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49723261023_d7f1bf2315_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49723261023_d7f1bf2315_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
And after a quick wipe down:
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Yeah. The bike has been washed after every ride but only with a hose, never with a full jetwash, and only once with my worx hydroshot. There should not be that much mud in the BB shell, inside the 'sealing' tube.
Once I get the old BB out I'll make sure it's OCD clean before putting the new one in!
The CC PF41 BB comes with these sealing rings so should be a lot better in keeping the crap out. I may check and if there's a drain hole in the frame I'll remove the sealing tube as all it seems to do is keep the crap right in the BB.
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I am intrigued by these, it is a genuine problem needing a solution.
Have the hellbender bearings in my angleset and they are still smooth after a year of hard riding in Wales. Original bearings (lower race) didn't last 6 months. They do have a slight extra friction to them which is noticeable in the car park but not out on the trail
Have the hellbender bearings in my angleset and they are still smooth after a year of hard riding in Wales. Original bearings (lower race) didn’t last 6 months. They do have a slight extra friction to them which is noticeable in the car park but not out on the trail
Awesome, cheers - I had read about the slight extra friction but tbh that's not a big deal in a bottom bracket.
If CC produced these for 24mm spindle i would be joining you in purchasing.Bit of a "stick in the mud" but i will not use anything but Shimano cranks.
Presumably,CC will manufacture Shimano specific in due course?
Chris King have started offering a lifetime warenty. Don't know if you have to do any maintenance, or if there's a defined "lifetime" on the BB's, but it's kinda tempting. I've resisted on the basis that I've always got N+1 bikes, and the "winter" bikes tend to be cheap and cheerful, a £165 BB would cost more than my most ridden winter hardtail did so I'm happier throwing £25 BB's on it annually!
Tempted to have a cull of the n+1's and go back to one nice bike that's still winter proof and accept that drivechains used for the wetter 6 months of the year wear out.
If CC produced these for 24mm spindle i would be joining you in purchasing.Bit of a “stick in the mud” but i will not use anything but Shimano cranks.
They don't offer a straight 24mm version?
Bit daft innit?
Yeah,it appears to be 30mm axles only.Hopefully they will produce a 24mm version in due course although with proper maintenance i am happy with the service life of shimano BB's.
I think they were inundated with requests for a 24mm version so I wouldn't be surprised to see one fairly soon.
The reason why it's 30mm only at the moment is that they wanted the 'ultimate' BB to go with their, quite frankly, pornographic, 'ultimate' cranks, being the EEWings.
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/review-cane-creek-eewings-titanium-cranks/
Wibble.
I know we all like some dirty bottom bracket action, so here some pics for you filthy buggers:
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And something a bit cleaner!
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[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49731030591_0b08747936_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49731030591_0b08747936_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
The plastic tube is the E13 BB sealing tube that goes between the BB shells, I'll re-use it I'm pretty sure it was just the sheer amount of water and mud that has cause it to get in there.
Hellbender BB will be here on Monday so will get it fitted next week.
Oh yeah, and I had a quick look/feel at the old bearings, they're not completely shot but they're definitely on their way - a bit 'grindy' and one side has some play.
chakaping
They don’t offer a straight 24mm version?
Bit daft innit?
Every major manufacturer of high-end cranks other than Shimano has gone 30mm (or 29 point whatever)
If the magic is the bearings I wonder how long until SKF make 24mm bearings to fit e.g. Hope bottom brackets. 24mm is notable by their absence at https://www.skf-mtrx.de/en/product-details but lots of other sizes are there...
Paul, does your frame have the rear mech cable routing that exits the frame near the chain set? From photos, looks like that would be a weak spot for water and muck getting in.
Paul, does your frame have the rear mech cable routing that exits the frame near the chain set? From photos, looks like that would be a weak spot for water and muck getting in.
Yes but no, all the internal cable routing is full tubes, apart from the dropper routing which finishes half way up the seat tube.
This is looking into the BB shell and up the downtube/seat tube junction, which is completely clean.
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So the only place it could have got in is past the BB seals/BB to crank spindle. The drain hole under the BB is a couple of mm across.
Well, you definitely don't get a lot to show for your £120, that's for sure.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49742614211_f678d792a1_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49742614211_f678d792a1_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
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But there is £40's worth of bearings in there, plus the BB shells, plus the end caps, so it's not too bad.
Turning the bearings by hand, there's a definite 'tightness' to them, they're not what you'd call free running, but they are very, very smooth. You can almost feel the insert and the lubrication, they feel a little different to regular bearings.
I will probably try and fit the new BB tomorrow, won't be riding the bike for a while though as my seatpost is off for a warranty service.
Weirdly, I’ve just had one turn up, 2nd hand (free with some cranks), and the drive side feels lush, the non drive side... very much doesn’t, almost like theres nothing lubricating it. Will ask the seller how many miles it’s done, but it can’t be many, it came off a single speed jump bike...
Check it's definitely a hellbender, it has writing on the seals on mine.
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The 'Neo' name comes from the MTRX name of the bearings. The Matrix, Neo, innit.
It doesn’t but the new in retail packaging one I have on my desk doesn’t either and that’s definitely a hellbender.
Has the MTRX reference on the bearings though
So are we saying that if you buy the 30mm bearing separately:
https://www.bike24.com/p2283482.html
Then they will fit straight into a Hope 30mm Bottom Bracket.
Might be a good investment in the future
No - if you mean a PF41, 30mm spindle BB then the outer race on the PF41/30mm BB is also the Pressfit cup, on the normal bearing it's a 42mm OD race with no flange as per the PF cup.
There's no room for a seperate outer race on a pf42/30mm BB.
Also, PF41 BB bearings are 11mm deep, those 30mm MTRX bearings are 7mm deep.
If you mean something other than a pf41 BB, then so long as you can remove the old bearings and get ones that match exactly the old bearings ID, OD and width, then they should fit.
All fitted in my lunch break.
Easy job with the right tools, I reckon I could replace one in 40 minutes, easy.
It's soooo smooth! I was going to re-use the E13 sealing tube but then I though that if the dirt was getting in via the bearings, all that would happen is the sealing tube would keep the dirt in the BB right next to the bearigs, so I left it out.
Wasn't enough room to fit the ally dust covers, I think they include them with all the BB's but they don't nessearily fit all of them.
I'd be interested to hear how these are lasting?
Better than the E13 items?
Any issues?
Cheers
I’ve a couple that are still spinning nicely after a year of all conditions riding. Only issue has been that one of the (threaded) cups unwound a bit, effectively seizing the crank, but all good now and since.
Apparently they have now been discontinued, they have certainly gone off the Cane Creek USA site.
They are showing for me...
https://canecreek.com/product/hellbender-bottom-bracket/
Also a step up again, but very pricey;
https://canecreek.com/product/hellbender-110-bottom-bracket/
They also appear to be in stock in a few places from a quick Google.
My E13 BB keeps getting warranted (new wheel bearings, Cassette and BB from them now - can't fault the customer service at all!)
Good to have an update, ta!
(is it just me or did they focus on 30mm only because 30mm BBs are always less reliable- tiny bearings? Like, if I was you and I wanted better bearing life I'd have spent the money on a 24mm crank)
They discontinued the NEO SKF bearing version due to poor supply and inconsistent bearing quality. They now offer the Hellbender 70 with stainless bearings and the HB 110 with Enduro XD15 ceramic bearings but that also has a full lifetime warranty.
Northwind
(is it just me or did they focus on 30mm only because 30mm BBs are always less reliable- tiny bearings?
Or because their own crank is 30mm?
I am still running the neo with the SKF a year later. Great in Scots weather but spins much slower than the 70 series. Stays clean but I do notice the drag.
So running mine, over a year old and still running as smooth as the day it was fitted, zero issues.
So running mine, over a year old and still running as smooth as the day it was fitted, zero issues
So I take that back, a few wettish days in the Lakes appears to have killed it 😕
Bit of play stayed to appear which I couldn't get rid of with the preload adjuster, got the drive side crank off and it's the bearings that have the play. Can't get the spindle out though, it appears welded on!
So that's around 6 months for the original e13 BB, and 1 year for the cane creek mtrx BB. I think a 24mm BB and new crank is in order, XT 12 speed with a hope or Wheels manufacturing PF BB. Maybe I can get 2 years out the next one?
Hope 30mm BB? Suspect it will outlast both.
Nah I'll probably look at swapping cranks to a 24mm shaft, I think it's the inherent problem with 30mm cranks in the press fit shell, there's just not enough room for good sealing.
The hope 30mm pf isn't much different to all the others, the 24mm one obviously has much bigger bearings and screws together.
Hope 30mm BB? Suspect it will outlast both.
Hope 30mm PF92 dont last either.
Putting a 30mm spindle in a 41mm hole does not leave much room for bearings and is a stupid idea.