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Hi,
I have a 2003/2004 Heckler and i'd like to slap some fox 34 floats or maybe even some 32 float 150's, but they all seem to be tapered steerers. I've done a bit of research and Cane Creek make a bottom cup:
[url= http://www.jensonusa.com/!HSsy6bB66LYhqLXStLVfAw!/Cane-Creek-40-Series-EC4440-Bottom-Cup ][/url]
would this solve the problem? Is it a good solution? My LBS seem to think not as it would add too much to the axle-to-crown length and slacken the head angle too much - their solution is to buy some different forks...from them.
Another thing they said might be possible would be to get Mojo to build me some forks but i can't help thinking this is an expensive way to go.
Has anyone tried this headset solution or know how well it works? I'm not even sure my Heckler head tube has the right diameter for it?
No.
Why not 150 revs with a 1 1/8 steerer? Far cheaper than Fox, probably £300 from merlin or CRC.
You could run it without a lower bearing but I wouldn't recommend it.
Because i'm a tart and i want them the same colour as they are now which is grey. But i'm taking all advice in.
cbmotorsport can you elaborate? Why can't i use this cane creek product?
I agree with your lbs. The geometry would be ruined.
Get some revs and spray the lowers grey??
I can't see it working without significantly changing the geometry.
Buy some RS Revs and get them or the frame re-sprayed with money you save 🙂
I don't think that will work - 1 1/8" does not have 44mm id.
I think there are products that will work, I hate bodges tho and wouldn't go there.
I ran an 03 Heckler with 150mm forks, rode fine.
JCL - MemberYou could run it without a lower bearing but I wouldn't recommend it.
Brilliant!
OP - buy Revs. No-one cares if your collars and cuffs match.
I have "mahogany" Revs on my Helius and they don't look quite as minging as you'd first imagine 😀
Hecklers are brilliant with 160mm forks, but there's absolutely no way to fit a tapered steerer to one of that vintage.
cynic-al - Member...........I hate bodges tho and wouldn't go there.
😯
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Hecklers are brilliant with 160mm forks
That's ultimately what i'm after, but i want to keep it as light as possible so it still climbs as well. I did consider a 1 1/8" Fox 36 but decided it'd just be a little bit on the lardy side. The new crop of tapered steerer Fox forks are pretty light for the amount of travel.
I don't think that will work - 1 1/8" does not have 44mm id.
I wondered about this but couldn't find the geometry specs. So it definitely won't fit then? Are there any other similar headsets on the market?
can't see it working without significantly changing the geometry.
If i could get a headset to fit the solution (which looks like it might not even be possible), wouldn't just running a bit more sag sort this out?
So complicated lol. Maybe i could get a float 160 and swap the crown/steerer assembly. Or maybe just live with the extra weight of a 1 1/8" 36. Decisions decisions...
Bregante - "I hate paying for bodges" I should have said - glad to have a follower tho.
OP - I think there is a headset that will work, dunno who makes it tho. It's bound to raise stack height...if so, why compromise the fork by running it softer? How much lighter is it?
OK so let's talk fork upgrade options.
The whole reason i want to upgrade from my 2009 Talas 140mm is that i ride in the Peaks and want to be able to bosh the bigger stuff. I just feel like i want a bit more plush, and i'd like to try a through axle, but i don't want to add more weight. My fork weighs about 1900g
So 150mm Rev could be a good one.
LBS offered me a Rock Shox Sektor 150mm, not sure how much that weighs or how well it performs.
Do Fox make a 150/160mm Float/Talas with a 1 1/8" steerer?
Buy my 2 ride old straight steerer lyriks
Buy my 2 ride old straight steerer lyriks
How much do they weigh and how much do you want for them
360 cash, 2.1kg
360 is more than i want to pay for a fork upgrade, are they solo air? also i wouldn't pay cash because of the logistics involved, unless you live near me.
A standard 1 1/8 head tube has in id of 34mm. So that cane creek cup you like to won't fit. To adapt it to fit May be possible and someone may make a product to do it but as said above your angles are all going to go crazy slack. Especially with a real long fork. Get the right fork for the frame. I think you'll regret it if you don't.
360 cash, 2.1kg
A standard 1 1/8 head tube has in id of 34mm. So that cane creek cup you like to won't fit. To adapt it to fit May be possible and someone may make a product to do it but as said above your angles are all going to go crazy slack. Especially with a real long fork. Get the right fork for the frame. I think you'll regret it if you don't.
Yep, you're right. Problem is, which is the right fork? I love my heckler and wouldn't be able to afford a new frame so it's staying put for now, it's still an awesome frame and has a nice wheelset and rides like a beast, i just want a little bit more "downhillability" without forcing it to show its age 🙂
What you need is my 2011 Heckler frame that I have forsale to go with those nice Lyriks Rob has forsale!! I ran mine with 36 Talas and built it for the Alps. It came in at 33lb and still climbed well even with 1x10. Just got a bit fitter.
Good god man, just buy a fork with 1 1/8" steerer!
Travel - to suit you!
Weight - to suit you!
Coil or air - to suit you!
It's simple engineering, steerer tubes are designed to run on bearings, inside the headtube, a taper fork will not fit a straight 1 1/8" headtube, unless you use some bodgy bearing/cup that would make the taper sit below the headtube, thus slackening angles and generally being cack.
If your heckler has a standard external 1 1/8 headset, like on Al's mighty Marin up there there is no way to fit tapered forks.
Shorten the stem will make it a bit more aggressive on the descents but may reduce it's climbing ability. I ran 150mm on my old heckler and it was ace. I also ran 140 on it and to be honest I couldn't tell the difference. If I were you I'd get a 150mm rev. Great fork. Sektors are a good fork too. If you can get a 150mm with a 1 1/8 steerer and a bolt through axle they will be pretty good too. If a little more basic. Personally speaking, I wouldn't fit a fox fork.
so what's the main difference between the rev and the sektor then?
[i]so what's the main difference between the rev and the sektor then? [/i]
Revs are dearer and better.
Sektors are cheaper and no as good as Revs.
Just buy these:
I've them on my 456Ti, they work great. Light, strong and well damped.
Those forks have a 15mm axle, so make sure they fit your wheels before pulling the trigger.
Get 36 Floats with 1 1/8, only a little over 2kg, weight is worth the stiffness.
Just to let you know, this is what i've got already.
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Is a 150mm Rev [i]really[/i] going to make any difference?
Assuming they are QR forks on your bike - I think you'll find a set of Revs with a Maxle will be a lot stiffer, and give you a more direct feel from the front.
Not sure if they'll slacken the bike a bit compared to your Fox, but if they do it'll improve matters going down.
The Revs posted in the link above are good. I have a set and they were great in the Alps riding singletrack.
Longer Travel Plush Fork
Cheap
Light.
All 3 will be problematic. I bought a set of 160 Marz 55 second hand for about £160. They are super plush, but not light!! (2.5kg)
Plenty of straight steerer Lyriks about, I'd go for them rather than trying to faff about. Its a solution that works very very well!
They are QR forks yeah with Hope hubs so i could fit a maxle for on there. To be honest though, i don't believe a maxle/15mm/20mm front axle makes much difference, not as much as the marketing people say it does anyway. At 11 stone i'm not a heavy rider and i've never experienced flex with the setup i have now. The main reason for wanting a fork upgrade is to have more big boulder squish, having moved to the Peak District. What i would really like to be able to do is this (fast forward to get to the good bit) without dabbing:
And before anyone says it's not a footpath it's a bridelway 🙄
I've got a set of x fusion velvets which I've been very impressed with. They're only 130mm, but the big brother of the velvet is called something like the slant and it's adjustable between 130-160mm. Lighter than foxes, cheaper and for whatever reason, xfusion seem to import far more straight than tapered steerer versions. And you can get them in white which will look good with the burgundy
150mm Revs are good forks....before DIRT went 650b/29er mad the Revs used to feature in the DIRT-100 every year, had a set of non travel adjust and they were decent, can be had for £300 now too....dont discount Sektors, they can be had with coil springs with whatever stiffness you want (i run a medium spring and for my 14st its fine), would maybe go to a firm spring if i started racing again....at £250 they are a bargain in this day and age.
Forget ideas of a tapered steerer, your head tube just doesnt have the internal diameter required...to fit one would require the taper sticking out the bottom of the head tube....one can only guess how awful it would look and how shocking it would ride.
150mm forks on a FS will have no problem ploughing through everything in that video.
you don't need new forks to help with the Peak district's rocks, you need more practise.
new forks [i]might[/i] make the difference between riding through a section at XX.2kph, and XX.5 kph, they won't make the difference between dabbing and riding.
A 15mm maxle vs QR on a 150 fork makes a HUGE difference!!! The other thing worth looking at is some offset bushes to slacken the HA by about 1.5 degrees.
Lets be honest though, the problem is more likely to be you than the fork!!
you don't need new forks to help with the Peak district's rocks, you need more practise.new forks might make the difference between riding through a section at XX.2kph, and XX.5 kph, they won't make the difference between dabbing and riding.
Oh don't get me wrong, i've ridden 90% of this. I'd just rather ride it without my eyeballs shaking out of their sockets! Pretty sure it could be done on a fully rigid if I had the skills. It probably has been done on a fully rigid.
So maybe a coil rev or sektor could be on the cards then. I would go for an older fox 36 (pretty sure the vanilla would be nice) but i don't want to add any more weight. I like the look of the 160mm x-fusion forks but i'm having trouble finding one with a straight 1.125 steerer?
Interesting to see that not many people are recommending Fox forks, they used to be regarded as the smoothest on the market but i guess things change as technology moves along. When i first decided i wouldn't mind a fork upgrade i immediately thought a 150mm float with 15mm axle would be a logical upgrade from what i have now, something between that and a 160mm maxle fork but i can't find one with a straight steerer anywhere. I'm sure they exist, just my interweb says no..
There is a pair of marzocchi 44 RC3 Ti forks in the classifieds at the moment.
Get them. They are awesome. (not mine)
Bolt through axles make a massive difference.
Fox arent all they used to be. They had a couple of iffy years. new stuff is okay, but bang for buck rockshox is the fork to beat nowadays. can pick up a coil sektor for 200 ish if you shop around.
So simple to service yourself and work great.
My Marzocchi 55 160's are a 1 1/8 steerer - cheap as chips secondhand, and the plushest fork I've ever ridden.
The marzocchi's are a bit heavy though aren't they?
I've just gone from a set of 140 Float RL from 2010 to a set of 2nd hand 2012 Rev's with a QR15 on my 2010 Heckler (1 1/8 head tube). The change to the geometry and handling is negligible but the extra stiffness is very noticeable, especially when I was playing around with pressures etc on a rocky descent at speed. They just feel more substantial than the Floats - I don't think I was riding any faster than normal but I certainly felt more in control.
20mm of extra travel won't stop your eyeballs being shaken out.
is it worth asking if your suspension is correctly set up for you?
150mm travel both ends needed as a bare minimum! 😉
I've just gone from a set of 140 Float RL from 2010 to a set of 2nd hand 2012 Rev's with a QR15 on my 2010 Heckler (1 1/8 head tube). The change to the geometry and handling is negligible but the extra stiffness is very noticeable, especially when I was playing around with pressures etc on a rocky descent at speed. They just feel more substantial than the Floats - I don't think I was riding any faster than normal but I certainly felt more in control.
That's good info thanks
Bobby that is a perfectly reasonable question. They're the Talas R version so they don't have much in the way of adjustment but I tend not to have the rebound too fast and run them at about 30% sag. I'm 11 stone and I run about 75-80psi. I find if I put less air in I get brake dive...
Does compression damping fix brake dive?
Maybe I'll just man up and live with the weight penalty, or just put a rev on like 1000 other people have already mentioned. Almost seems too easy...
Haha Rob that's awesome!
Be honest though, that's not the first time you've ridden that section is it?
I do need to get better...
Oh no that's definitely not me I mince down like a good un.
On a 140mm hardtail usually though...
To be fair, he makes that look very easy. It's quite steep in places, especially that left hander at the top where it's easy to sh@t ones self at the sight of what's in front of you (a big drop). I love it up there though! I can ride from my house to redmires to there, to foxhouse and back to mine in about 23 mile round trip and this is the only bit that gives me problems.
Loving the peak district.
to foxhouse and back to mine in about 23 mile round trip and this is the only bit that gives me problems.
There is some cheeky stuff near there that makes stanage plantation look like Sherwood pines. Time to explore a bit more! 😀
Sounds like you are loving the peaks riding, great isnt it! Hard to say exactly what might be causing you to feel so unbalanced with actually looking at your full bike set up and body position but it might be worth having good shop or coach give you some set up pointers. Just to avoid buying forks for the reason that they match your colour scheme. Hope this does not come across as condescending.
There is some cheeky stuff near there that makes stanage plantation look like Sherwood pines. Time to explore a bit more!
I am sure there is, i've found the Blacka Moor trail after reading "Dark Peak mountain biking" but it's verrrry muddy in winter, the jeep path is almost impassable in places. I made the mistake of leaving my bike unwashed for a couple of months after riding that and went back to it to find the bottom bracket completely ceased up!
It's difficult for me to explore as much as i'd like because i work away from home a lot so don't get much time so when i do go out i tend to stick to places i know, but if you've got any pointers or fancy getting out for a ride some time just drop me an email.
Sounds like you are loving the peaks riding, great isnt it! Hard to say exactly what might be causing you to feel so unbalanced with actually looking at your full bike set up and body position but it might be worth having good shop or coach give you some set up pointers. Just to avoid buying forks for the reason that they match your colour scheme. Hope this does not come across as condescending.
No not at all, i actually like the way my bike's set up it's just i crave a bit more cush on sections like this and others where i just feel like ploughing through some of the boulder gardens! I know people say a 36 is great fun on a heckler but i just don't fancy the extra weight penalty.
At the end of the day, i should have bought the Revelation XX that has just gone for under 200 on the classifieds - i would have lost a few grams and gained more travel and a bolt through axle but alas, i am a plum 🙂
The difference between QR and 15 or 20mm is pretty noticable... But it's nothing like the difference between a 32 and a Rev! Fox basically just took their XC forks and kept stretching them over the years, they're extremely bendy. So, if that doesn't bother you just now, don't worry about flex- you have probably the worst performing modern fork in terms of stiffness, and you don't mind, so fahgeddabadit.