[Closed] Calibre bossnut evo, how do they do it

Just shows you the mark up in bikes , The Calibre dune was a game changer in price as well.

Dream on stanfree, cos like all bike industry folk are so minted?

Shows  you how a massive corp can create a loss leader more like.

It's still £900 though.  You ask anyone who's not "into" mtb and they'll think you're nuts for spending nearly a grand on a bike.

But as it goes, it is a lot of bike for your £900.

Pick your battles, go no name where you can, get a frame from a list of online frames to skip design costs, sell through your own multi sport shops to cut overheads there

What's the specs?

Cut and paste

<table class="bg-white h6 || stripes" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Frame</td>
<td class="p2">6061 aircraft grade hydroformed alloy frame with tapered headtube and forged one piece rocker link - 130mm rear travel</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Fork</td>
<td class="p2">Rock Shox Recon RL 130mm travel with tapered alloy steerer and 15mm maxle</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Drivetrain</td>
<td class="p2">SRAM NX 1X11</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Shifters</td>
<td class="p2">SRAM NX 1X11</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Rear Derailleur</td>
<td class="p2">SRAM NX 1X11</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Chainset</td>
<td class="p2">Samox trail with 32T narrow wide ring</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Cassette</td>
<td class="p2">SRAM NX 11- 42</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Brakes</td>
<td class="p2">Shimano MT500, Shimano 180mm front rotor and 160mm rear</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Rims</td>
<td class="p2">WTB ST i29 32H tubeless ready</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Tyres</td>
<td class="p2">WTB Vigilante 2.3” front, WTB Trailboss 2.25” rear</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Front hub</td>
<td class="p2">Formula 15mm bolt through 32H</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Rear hub</td>
<td class="p2">Formula 32H</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Stem</td>
<td class="p2">Calibre trail (45mm for 17.5"and 19.5", 60mm for 21.5")</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Bars</td>
<td class="p2">Kore Durox 780mm wide</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Headset</td>
<td class="p2">FSA Orbit tapered No. 57E</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Saddle</td>
<td class="p2">WTB Volt Sport</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Seatpost</td>
<td class="p2">Calibre trail 30.9mm 350mm length</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="p2">Pedals</td>
<td class="p2">Alloy platform pedal</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

Bugger

Easy wins are the Bars, Stem, Seat Post, headset, cranks, not sure what the hubs are, decent deal on clearance recons, then again a 6061 frame is nothing flash either, looking at some of the Chinese exporters and you can get some damm cheap frames.

I was missed  a used orange segment at a good price the other day that was twice the price of these

Oh and in reality give me a price, no restrictions and a good buyer/negotiator and you can hit any price point really, the art of it is to pick the eye catching things to add to the spec list that help you gloss over other bits.

In the end when I picked up my commencal meta I saw what was good, what was average and what I could swap out from the parts I had

I’ll actually credit them with picking a generic frame with decent if not Earth shattering geo / weight.

A list of parts deep in the great value / not shit stable.

All adds up to a decent bike that’s enough to let anyone go ride anything they want.

I suspect it’s imported as a frame and a parts kit which I think avoids import tax and they spend almost nothing on marketing - they are the anti Santa Cruz.

It's last years one that's reduced to £900, the new one is £999 - however the spec is about the same as some other FS bikes around the £1000-£1300 price.

For instance, the bottom level Vitus escarpe has the same fork, a newer deluxe shock, Shimano 1x10 vs the NX 1x11, better tyres, and it may well be £1305 after BC discount but it has a £150 brand-x XL dropper so that takes it to within £150 of the Bossnut evo.

Go-outdoors will have a much bigger buying power though so I imagine they get quite a few parts at silly prices.

Reading the online blurb it's really a bossnut V2.5, same frame but with added stealth dropper routing (wasn't there a thread the other day where someone was planning to take a drill to their V2?)

And rather than 2x10 Deore they've gone 1x11 NX... in fairness people happily pay about the same for a bird Zero with NX which of course lacks the rear boinginess of the Calibre...

I'm sure people will turn their noses up, but frankly it's the third iteration of an extremely good VFM product which certain established, pricier brands equivalent bikes don't bare comparison to all that well...

I got the V2 at Christmas for £850 and I'm absolutely loving it

It's not just about buying power- they can beat down the overheads everywhere and also I reckon margin, I doubt it's a loss leader but they often exempt it from their discount schemes so it's likely they're making very little on each sale. And they've got their locations and logistics already well sorted- per unit the distribution and shop floor costs will be lower than most competitors.

"I’ll actually credit them with picking a generic frame with decent if not Earth shattering geo / weight."

It's not that. It's a fair assumption but their main models are built to spec. I had a nice chat with their main designer when I got my Dune.

Yeah I know the new one is 999 I just get 10 percent off for being 999 , see what I did there 😉

There is also a triple b out soon at 1400 iirc which has better brakes forks and a dropper

Steve Jones waxing lyrical about it...

The thing is put a Cannondale/Specialized/Trek/kona badge on that bike and it's list price would be another £5-700 go outdoors have priced it to shift by selling at the price those other brands typically get discounted to when the follow on Year model comes out... More units moved at a lower margin probably still yields a healthy enough profit...

I get 10% off with C&CC membership, at that price this is pretty tempting as a second bike to go along with my 29er xc bike.

Does the rear tyre still take the paint off the seat tube at full compression on these or did they sort that?

I'm told that's fixed mate

The thing is put a Cannondale/Specialized/Trek/kona badge on that bike and it’s list price would be another £5-700

You would probably get more than 3 sizes too 😉

I see quite a few of these on the trails, the riders seem happy enough and it's good that there's a relatively affordable way to get a "proper" MTB.

I'd prefer to spend a bit more for the Vitus, but I reckon Go Outdoors (and Boardman at Halfords) are targeting the newbies a bit more anyway.

Not sure the loss leader thing works with big expensive items that only need relatively cheap accessories to go with them.

Not sure the loss leader thing works with big expensive items that only need relatively cheap accessories to go with them.

You can loss lead to break into a market. This looks more like this combined with sharp buying

One of the lads I ride with has one.

He's an aggressive rider, but he's had nothing but issues with it.

After having a full blown shout out with Go and SRAM over his forks, and eventually getting some replacement of parts done after the fork died a death, he's currently got the rear wheel at the LBS getting a new hub, as he doesn't want to deal with them again, even though it's really a warranty issue.

I think he really should have spent the money on something else, but like many people, and like me when the first Boardman stuff started to appear, he thought that some glowing mag reviews, and a great kit list for a full bounce at under a grand was a no-brainer.

I'm sure though, that for 90% of the people that buy them, they're the best bang for buck you can buy.

If I had a grand laying about, I'd give one some serious consideration.

How do they do it then?

Well, I guess a lot has to do with buying power and relationships in markets that manufacture that sort of stuff.  What I really admire about the range, is that they listen to what people say about improving them, and then they're on the next itteration.  As such, they will continue to get glowing reviews and a following.

I suspect, that that's how they do it. 🙂

I dunno if its a loss maker,  sure they could have made a 29er hardtail with similar spec and price, thrown it out to all the mags for review and bought some  advertising. Same as loads of other brands do when they want to launch something. It would be cheaper than giving it away at a loss.

I'd be seriously tempted if I had £900 in my pocket. At that price its more than enough bike as a 2nd bike for the average MTBer who needs a hardtail for nine rides out of ten but wants something for weekends away in the Peak/Lake district, BPW etc.

Ohh and more generally, MTB needs bikes like this desperately. Its in serious danger of disappearing up its own arsehole like Sailing did, then windsurfing. Prices for new kit go sky high, the sport fragments into a thousand niches and people just don't bother anymore.

Singletrack (the front-page not the forum) are at the bleeding edge of this. In the last few weeks they've had news stories with headlines like "these wheels are the best value ever and they're under £900!", "these hollow titanium cranks are under a grand!", " hunt release sub £350 wheelset". I mean seriously, I know this kit exists to be drooled over, but pretending that its good value and not intended to appeal only to the stockbroker market is what will kill MTB. The mags need to get out of their little bubble where they seem to think they can plead poverty on the one hand, telling us all that its worth being a pennyless MTB journalist for the lifestyle and free £6000 bikes. Yet on the other pretending that the rest of the world is the binary opposite, that we all earn megabucks in return for selling our soles the the man in return for the funds to buy the same £6000 bikes. The reality is most of us probably still earn less than they do.

Open up a BMX mag and you'll find £800 frames reviewed alongside £250 completes. That's why bmx races are well attended by kids and MTB events get canceled due to lack of interest.

£350 is good for a decent wheelset though

Not sure the loss leader thing works with big expensive items that only need relatively cheap accessories to go with them.

I'm not so sure it's a "loss leader" thing as such, there are of course some cost reducing compromises, as pointed out fewer size options, and they're probably using their buying power to buy finishing kit in bulk, and there are not multiple finishing level options, it's a bit more 'Model T' and that helps keep pricing down, but then they've got a pre-existing Warehousing, distribution and sales network, so far as Go-Outdoors are concerned a bike probably isn't much more logistically difficult to sell than a large family tent...

Does it all really come down to the cost of shopping for a bike at an LBS?
I did have a look last night on Paul's Cycles, just out of academic interest and for £1K you could have a 2016 Cannondale Habit 5, with a similar amount of rear travel, a similar RS fork and a broadly equivalent Deore 2x10 Drivetrain (with an SLX mech to skew the mag reviews)...

The thing is the original list price for that (two year old, dumped NOS) bike was £1700 Which of course was intended to cover a more complex distribution setup, the shop's overheads as well as buying Adverting and positive reviews in MBR...
The "Traditional" way of buying a known brand bike from a "proper bike shop" is really not very good VFM from a customer's perspective, unless that extra £700 is buying you some amazing aftersales support what do you really get?

£350 is good for a decent wheelset though

If you read ST then yes it is (and that perception is what I was arguing against).

In reality £100-£150 should buy some very good wheels. There was a time when the answer to "what wheels?" Was XT hubs, 717 rims and panaracer fire XC 2.1 from your choice of CRC or merlin, and you would get change from two sets for £350.

Yes things have moved on from 717s, but that doesn't mean anything cheaper than Stans should be written off (because frankly even Stans are ludicrous prices for alloy non-eyeleted rims).

Some of the reviews for 'reasonably priced' kit are taking the piss somewhat with what is defined as reasonable.

You'd think they'd learn after the market voted with its feet and decided that a £50 p7 light from China was better value than the £500 branded sets and worth the risk of burning your shed down.

Credit where it's due, MBR despite their criticism for always giving specialized 10/10 do a least give their "bike of the year" awards to bikes from the cheap end of the scale fairly regularly, and have separate 'best value' 'best hard tail' categories.

Is it any wonder kids get playstations (and hence fat) when you open a magazine and get the impression you can only get a "good value" wheelset let alone a bike for that price?

You’d think they’d learn after the market voted with its feet and decided that a £50 p7 light from China was better value than the £500 branded sets and worth the risk of burning your shed down.

All it seems to have done is kill the average brand, good kit with good backing still sells well.

All it seems to have done is kill the average brand, good kit with good backing still sells well.

I don't dispute that there's room for both in the market. If you have enough disposable income for a Stanton switch9er built in the UK then a Bossnut isn't really it's competition and a review of a £1000 fox Factory spec 36 is entirely revelvent.  But for every one of those sold to someone in the top 1%, there are 99% who probably could afford a <£500 hardtail.

I pointed out on another thread that to the average person a £250 seatpost is ridiculous. You won't convince them to take up cycling by further extolling the virtues of £250 seatposts, all that does it give an already odball sport an unaffordable image. You do get them by showing them what they can actually afford (and <£500 hardtails are really bloody good these days).

Otherwise if we carry on pretending we're the new golf to those that can afford it, we'll end up the new windsurfing.

In reality £100-£150 should buy some very good wheels. There was a time when the answer to “what wheels?” Was XT hubs, 717 rims and panaracer fire XC 2.1 from your choice of CRC or merlin, and you would get change from two sets for £350.

Apart from the Panaracer (which are shit) you do know that you can still get these very wheels from CRC and they still only cost about £170, right?  If you're going to have a rant about something, at least make it vaguely factual..  🙂

Apart from the Panaracer (which are shit) you do know that you can still get these very wheels from CRC and they still only cost about £170, right?  If you’re going to have a rant about something, at least make it vaguely factual..

Likewise

Nothing to do with availability. Everything to do with the cycling media's obsession only with the high end kit. My gripe isn't that mtb is expensive, it's always had £10k bikes that no one could afford even in the 90's. My gripe is that if you pick up a magazine in the train station because you were considering taking up cycling you could be forgiven for thinking that snorting caviar through a Faberge straw would be a cheaper hobby.

And when the alternative was Continental Verti Pro's, Fire XC were the dogs bolocks.

Don't watch Top Gear, you'll have a coronary.

Magazines don't exist just to give sound retail advice otherwise they'd go out of business and be pretty dull, Everyone likes to look at top end kit (apart from you obviously) ...the same could be said for anything from Hi Fi to cars to motorbikes, to Games and computers, we live in (for better or worse) a consumer world, and has space for all from the likes of you and TJ railing against it, to, well, me who look past it all, and buy what I want.

10/10 for a good rant though.

I have to agree with TINAS here, the "lifestyle investment" narrative seems to be on the up generally within cycling media.

My hare shirt is well established, and yes I roll about on wheels (many self built) costing substantially less than the price of a "decent pair" partly because I'm a tight arse, but mostly because bikes aren't the only thing my limited income pays for...

And it's worth considering what else has been in the news lately, the UK is still a in a slump with real terms average wages vs cost of living still not back on Pre-2008 terms and Millenials being told to forget about homeownership...

Set against that backdrop, rather than trying to coax people into cycling with promises of cheap thrills, getting fit while having fun and taking up a hobby with the potential to save you money (you know by leaving the Audi at home) it's started becoming a bit too...

Which has always been an aspect of "cycling culture" but there was also some consideration given to budget and value especially for those newer to it all back in the 90s as half the target market were tweenagers, at least that's how it seemed to a tweenage me...

I find it telling that rather than celebrating a company's ability to bring quite a bit of function and VFM to market, the instant response for many is to simply look for ways to rubbish it...

Of course the bossnut isn't perfect, but if I were to suggest certain £3k+ ego waggons welded together out of old filing cabinets in Halifax perhaps offer less than optimal VFM that would be shouted down...

We all have different means and expectations, it's just a little sad when those towards the top of the pile are over represented in the picture put forward by the meeja, and people start believing £1000 can't actually buy them a decent bike...

Had yesterday a "free day", took my Bossnut V2 and made a great trip. Turned the day into a fantastic day....

The Bossnut V2 is one of my bikes and I love it. And yes - some parts will fail at a certain stage (the Formula hubs first?) but I don't worry about it. The bike is a fun bike and it's possible to really hammer down the trails with it. When the wheels are "done" I will invest into some DT370 / FunWorks wheels. All the other stuff from RockShox, WTB and Shimano will last like on other mountain bikes as well (around 3...4 years?).

Pretty clear: you need a bit of "luck". For this price tag Calibre can't invest too much into quality control and assembly quality. Possible that there is a certain percentage of bikes where the customers aren't (and can't be) happy with. But I'am happy that Calibre bikes is around. No issues with my bike. The design is sound. And great that they keep on cranking out newer and better versions with the 1k price tag.

Helps people getting into the mountain bike sport.

Great!

Cmon guys, didn't you get the memo? Cycling is the new golf.

Seriously though this bike looks awesome value. Personally I would probably always spend a bit more but then I hang onto bikes for ages and I make damn sure they are what I want at that time..

@SandyThePig:

Cmon guys, didn’t you get the memo? Cycling is the new golf.

Haha. You are right maybe.

Big fun so: to chase a 5 k bike with the Bossnut V2. Appears to me that the "golf bikers" don't have enough time for training. I train every second day - using my old hardtails and my Bossnut. And what I think: training is key. The "4 k extra" don't make you faster...

Fun level: o.k. - the Bossnut is a bit on the heavy side. Could be that 1.5 kg less would be more fun? But I guess to shave the 1.5 kg down from the bike would make it more expensive.

For me the Bossnut 1 k package - like it is - is just fine.

I hang onto bikes for ages

O.k. - different with my stuff. I keep certain parts for ages - and keep "adding" bikes. But I start swapping parts after around two years of use. Adding forks with longer travel, wider rims and stuff like this. On the drivetrain side I stay with low cost Deore 2x10. Great climbing set up and doesn't cost so much if I rip a rear mech off.

it’s just a little sad when those towards the top of the pile are over represented in the picture put forward by the meeja, and people start believing £1000 can’t actually buy them a decent bike…

I just think that's not true. Whenever a new Deore groupset is out, it gets massive coverage, same for NX and GX for bringing Eagle to the masses, the Bossnut was reviewed in Dirt when it was still a print magazine and was given a rave review. Most expensive kit when it's reviewed bears the price as a caveat, rather than positive feature. I think it's a misrepresentation to say that "the media" are pushing an agenda of expensive kit. And has been demonstrated even if that's it's message thy're trying to push, it isn't working as you can still buy good value kit at the same prices you could 15 years ago, from the same stores...

Mountain biking will always be an expensive hobby. Unlike something like skateboarding where there is absolutely no technical advantage to spending more than the average £100 - £150 for a pro setup, there are significant, measurable advantages in mountain biking if you spend more money on kit.

What I think is important then, from a culture and magazine editorial point of view, is to keep featuring the £500 hardtails (and £1000 full-sussers) and not just as a "here's a beginners bike", but also point out that if you're not taking up racing or planning on keeping up with your fast mates on their £6k enduro sleds down a black run at a trail centre, that a sub-£500 bike could be your only bike that will last you for many years and take you on some epic mountain bike rides, and will still be tough enough for most trails in the UK, even if it's not the fastest bike on the rougher stuff.

If that gets people into the hobby, then they want to spend more later then they can (and lets be honest, most will)

Mountain biking will always be an expensive hobby.

It’s  as expensive as you want, and always was. My first decent bike was £437 (Marin Muirwoods in 94). This was nearly entry level, and the lbs stocked plenty of bikes -hardtails even! - at well over £1k. There were cheaper options.

If you compare the costs to any other event though it doesn’t work out too badly. How many people spend £50+ per month on an unused gym membership, or even spend more than that on booze every weekend.

Yep booze and gym memberships are also expensive, i've cut both out from my life.

I seem to have spent an average of £50/month on bike maintenance recently - not upgrades, just keeping it trailworthy 🙂

I imagine it's quite easy to do. No dropper and cheapo frame for a start.

I bet they're still making a pretty little profit selling them at a grand.

The fact that folk are in disbelief just reinforces how well the more prestigious brands have conditioned you into paying the higher prices for their product.

What I think is important then, from a culture and magazine editorial point of view, is to keep featuring the £500 hardtails (and £1000 full-sussers) and not just as a “here’s a beginners bike”, but also point out that if you’re not taking up racing or planning on keeping up with your fast mates on their £6k enduro sleds down a black run at a trail centre, that a sub-£500 bike could be your only bike that will last you for many years and take you on some epic mountain bike rides, and will still be tough enough for most trails in the UK, even if it’s not the fastest bike on the rougher stuff.

I don't entirely agree with that.

Sometimes poor component's noticeably hold a bike back, but I don't think there's a significant time difference between a functional bike and a super bike.

Remember back in the day when Dirt used to publish a sort of top gear lap times board of the bikes they tested, there was one issue when they were testing all mountain (now enduro I guess) bikes. They loved the Specialized enduro, and credited it with being within seconds of an M3 down the track. They slated the Giant Faith (which to be fair had a really poor spec, it read like a who's who of stuff that disappeared from the market because it was crap), yet it was only a second slower.

The narrative that you need a £6k bike to keep up with someone else on a £6k bike is what's wrong. Your mate on a £6k bike might be fast, but he's not fast because of the bike. It's all a bit..........

Your mate on a £6k bike might be fast, but he’s not fast because of the bike.

Although if you’re on RS XC30 forks and he’s on Pikes you are more likely to wrap yourself around a tree. Some things are more expensive for a reason. 😁

The narrative that you need a £6k bike to keep up with someone else on a £6k bike is what’s wrong. Your mate on a £6k bike might be fast, but he’s not fast because of the bike.

I don't think I got my point across very well there then.

The narrative that you need a £6k bike to keep up with someone else on a £6k bike is what’s wrong.

I've seen plenty of reviews in mags about £6k bikes, and I've seen any number of Superbike drool/fluff articles, and even in this months mbr there a review of a fork that's glowing, but does go onto to say that a downside is it's price. But I don't think I've ever read anything that says "you have to have a £6K bike, otherwise you can't be in our gang"

I don't disagree that mountain biking can be expensive if you want. This month's MBUK has a bike test of Budget DH bikes. It's opening preamble goes "With race bikes used by the big factory teams often costing upwards of £10k, can you really get a decent DH sled for a third of the price"

I guess it all depends on where your "expensive but worth it" intersects with "You could buy a car for that"

I guess it all depends on where your “expensive but worth it” intersects with “You could buy a car for that”

And that could be the problem. People look down on bikes so therefore bikes must be cheap. Just because I can buy a 13 yr old Mondeo with blue smoke trailing from the exhaust for less than any of my bikes, it doesn’t mean that the bikes aren’t worth  the money.

Anybody know how much they cost to build?What is the margin on these bikes?