C2W Sucking the lifeblood out of Bike shops

I know of people who are self employed who set up a company to buy their e-bikes for them on a cycle to work scheme.

Needless to say, they don’t even cycle to work.

I remember seeing an article a few years ago saying cyclescheme had reduced their admin fee to 10% of sale value capped at £300.

I can’t comment on margins and whether it’s appropriate to do this for full price bikes but for anything on sale why not just offer the sale price plus the admin fee cost so it works out the same as if the customer hadn’t used c2w?

C2W is not a tax break for the middle classes to buy toys

But perhaps it is a tax break to encourage people to invest in their health and sustainable transport. Even if the bike they buy is wildly unsuitable for commuting, it's still motivating people to cycle.

This is all very strange to me. Why is the customer being blamed for taking the cheapest procurement option in a competitive market?

Maybe I have missed the thread complaining about people buying Gregg's sausage rolls versus alternatives  that are kept warm?

But perhaps it is a tax break to encourage people to invest in their health and sustainable transport.

It isn’t according to the HMRC website.

The last bike I bought, the shop insisted I paid an additional £300 to cover the Cyclesheme fees. I can't remember details but I believe this was their policy for all Cyclescheme purchases above a certain value. They were the only shop with the bike I wanted in stock and it was heavily reduced so I didn't question.

I was very much taking advantage of a "tax break for the middle classes to buy toys" as it was a £5k MTB that I'd have not bought otherwise.

The last bike I bought, the shop insisted I paid an additional £300 to cover the Cyclesheme fees. I can’t remember details but I believe this was their policy for all Cyclescheme purchases above a certain value. They were the only shop with the bike I wanted in stock and it was heavily reduced so I didn’t question.

Cyclescheme has recently imposed a new contract on its shop network (by means of a default termination of your relationship with them if you don't agree to the new contract) which means they are no longer allowed to charge anything for your cert, nor refuse to sell you something on sale.

That’s very interesting to hear. I’m surprised details of this weren’t published in OP’s article as that seems very unreasonable and a valid reason for bike shops to be complaining to parliament.

That’s very interesting to hear. I’m surprised details of this weren’t published in OP’s article as that seems very unreasonable and a valid reason for bike shops to be complaining to parliament.

Agreed, this little fact changes everything and should have been in the article. I wasn't aware when I commented above.

I don't get why that isn't just "we won't accept cyclescheme. Use one of the others."

I mean, either it's wildly unprofitable for them, and so losing it makes no odds, or they derive some benefit from the additional business it generates.

I don't think the fees that cyclescheme charges are justified, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say "sucking the lifeblood out of bike shops".

And for a time it did a great job. Now it’s become as much a tax break for cycling enthusiasts as anything else.

Have you got any numbers for that? I can see that in a forum of cycling enthusiasts it would look like that. I've got one mate who bought a jump bike on c2w that he certainly won't be commuting on.

In my office there are zero cycling enthusiasts, but lots of people that have used c2w. Mostly for £600ish hybrids, a few low-end ebikes, one cargo bike. They all get used for commuting. There's definitely a reasonable demographic out there using it as intended!

I'll admit to C2Wing a very impractical bike, but over the last few years I've bought 9 commuter bikes not on C2W. I'm not feeling too morally bankrupt.

This very much feels like punching down. It’s not as if the PAYE employee on basic tax is running a pick up with half tonne payload, or a PHEV in name only as a tax avoidance vehicle. A little perspective would be welcome

I think the perspective some of us have is that C2W was originally intended to help those on modest wages afford a good commuting bike via salary sacrifice, those people aren't really being served as well by the schemes anymore.

IME there's a fair chunk on the lower boundary of 40% tax (£50k+, so £17k+ above national avg) using it to accuire a discretionary toy (not a bike to commute on) which they would probably have bought without C2W on a 0% Credit card or direct from their disposable income. The main difference being HMRC's takings are reduced, and they maybe bump the spend up from SLX to XT spec as the offset tax gives them more to throw about. But fine, clearly it's only a minority of us that see higher earners abusing C2W in this way as problematic, and I can't say it's not crossed my mind recently...

I think the bigger issue, and why I posted the link originally, is that if C2W ends up costing retailers more to sell through (especially with certain flavours of C2W) and if scheme operators are now dictating terms to retailers that are potentially damaging to those businesses is it really fit for purpose anymore?

Cycle scheme and their competitors are really just providing a niche financial service that only exists because HR depts are lazy and HMRC rules seem confusing to non-accountants. They're deriving income from a scheme that was never really intended to generate income for anyone but bike shops, just feels a bit off to me...

Cycle scheme and their competitors are really just providing a niche financial service that only exists because HR depts are lazy and HMRC rules seem confusing to non-accountants. They’re deriving income from a scheme that was never really intended to generate income for anyone but bike shops, just feels a bit off to me…

Top way of attracting middlemen - have gov tax break/grant money sloshing around, everyone wants their slice. People are willing to give up (knowingly or not) to others some of what should be their slice, in exchange for someone else doing some fiddling to bring the slice to them.

Although you could argue that this is capitalism at work. The combined buying power of scheme members seems to be being used against retailers to bring about better value for the customer. Sub-optimal things happen though because it's the employer that chooses the scheme, and their incentives aren't the same as those of the customer who's paying for and riding the bike.

Quite tipically, a benefit for the working person is being screwed up by lazy companies but it's the end user getting the blame and likely to be the one who ultimately suffers.

The whole, this is good but not perfect so let's bin it completely, mindset stinks.

On cyclescheme dictating terms, it is similar to what BUPA physio did a few years back. They announced to all the physio's on their books that the new rate was xx an hour, take it or leave it. They were not allowed to charge customers more, even if the customer was happy to pay the difference direct to the physio. It is then up to the practice to decide if they want a high volume of low paying appointments or find their own customers but potentially be able to charge more.

It does make it easier for the customer, no conversations about in or out of rate and settling invoices above BUPA's contribution. I guess it reduces BUPA's admin overhead but the physios get squeezed.

In my office there are zero cycling enthusiasts, but lots of people that have used c2w. Mostly for £600ish hybrids, a few low-end ebikes, one cargo bike. They all get used for commuting. There’s definitely a reasonable demographic out there using it as intended!

That's good to hear. That was definitely the case back when the likes of Charge bikes were big... lots of fixies and pretend fixies going out to people who hadn't bought a shop new bike before ever. Anecdotally... those £600-£999 bikes now go out either discounted or with extras without scheme involvement (and with gears). Scheme bikes are all four figures and new/second bikes for enthusiasts. No figures to back that up, and could be completely wrong... just chatter.... sorry. Average spend and type of bike data from the schemes aren't readily available.

Oh... use your tax break any way you can... guilt free... on any bike, however you'll use it... bikes are great and diverting spend from other industries (eg cars) to the bike industry all helps move us towards a more bike friendly culture/society IMHO.

I've bought three bikes on C2W over the years:

1) A Brompton that saved me the cost of a Tube season ticket as I was able to get out at Wimbledon and ride to Hammersmith - I think that paid for itself in about three months and saved me thousands of quid over the four years I used it *just for that job*. I seem to remember it cost me a bit less than £700 retail, so was before Brompflation. It seriously saved our bacon as parents of two small children in a HCL area when my wife stopped working to look after the children.

2) A Gravel bike that I used to commute over the North Downs Way to my next job - less of a saving as it was pretty grotty in the winter, but I used the train and the Brompton if it was too muddy or wet

3) Last one was last August, and there was no way I could ride it from the Surrey Hills to Helsinki in time for work each morning. It was a seriously discounted Fuel EX from Balfe's, as it happens, simply because they could take Evans vouchers and that was what my company offered.

I could have bought the Brompton with cash, but it would have been a big old dent in our savings or income at the time - we'd just moved house and were doing a lot of quite urgent stuff to make it habitable for small shouty people, and my job paid better than trade journalism but not much more and happened to be on site in London. It was - and is - an excellent tool for the job.

I also think of all the bikehire companies that went bust and what happened to all their stock. If I was looking for a cheap, low hassle bike for riding four or five miles or nipping into the local town for shopping, I don't think I could find a better bike for the money. I'm surprised no-one bought the stock, resprayed it and flooded the market with cheap bikes, Holland-stylee. There are probably many, many reasons why not.

Well I'll not be sucking the life out of local shops, just been told the new scheme we have charges 17% of purchase price as the end of life buy back thing.