[Closed] Bunny hop cheating - clipless

I suppose if your plan is to hop over sticks and puddles it's as good a method as any, but not much use for anything else. "Proper" bunny hopping uses technique that is useful for all sorts of other things (pumping, drop offs, manuals, etc)

wouldn't bother TBH. while you can pull up with the pedals its better to learn how to do it properly.

Also, changing your bike set up to learn to do something badly, rather than keep it as is and learn to do it properly sounds crazy.

Stick with flats and learn to do it properly.

I'd say learn properly, if you learn the cheats way with clips you'll get a big surprise the day when you accidentally unclip mid log hop.

Cheating / pulling up instead of learning to pump properly will see you landing off centre, stacking and hurting yourself as you gain false confidence.

Just think push down on pedals / handlebars instead of pulling up as you would the ground if jumping without a bike. Then realise you need to lift an extra 10-15kg, do the same with much more effort / force and you will fly. Oh yeah, ignore half the YouTube vids that tell you wrong way.

Yes learn to do it properly. Plenty of videos on YouTube. You only need s few metres to practice so you could probably learn in the garden!
Clipless is just an accident waiting to happen

So, is it easiest, maybe best might be a better word, to learn using a fully rigid or a full susser? Both are 29ers.

It would work for getting over smaller obstacles, although watch out as I find when I do use the cheat hop or english style hop and catch the rear wheel I get pitched forwards OTB style more often!

Please tell me you own a Santa Cruz with full axs

😄

Learn on the bike you will ride mtb on. It's pretty easy

Doesn't matter. Find some YouTube videos and watch the technique. If you have the means to do so, could be worth filming your efforts so you can see what you are doing well / wrong.

IMO the key to getting the back wheel up is a "scooping" motion kind of diagonally backwards and upwards; a bit like you're trying to wipe crap off the bottom of your shoe.

Make sure have your feet appropriately positioned on the pedals too, not too far forward.

Good luck!

If you are struggling to get the bike off the ground then SPD pedals will help you . Plenty of people ride clipped in and are not cheating , it's just different . If you are happy with flats I would have a lesson and learn to hop . If not try SODs and don't let anybody tell you that you're cheating or it will promote bad technique.

I switched to flats to teach myself to bunny hop properly, then switched back to clips.

I had this same thought process years and years ago, 'til I had a nice housemate who swapped his spiky pedals onto my bike and spent an afternoon teaching me. So much safer to do it properly I reckon, and super fun. I'm no trials rider but can bunny hop a foot or so and always ride flats. I taught a friend last summer in an hour or two giving him a sequence of progressive challenges. After sifting through the internet I thought the Phil Kmetz ones were the best in terms of getting someone going. There's one on how to bunny hop, but the 'problems and mistakes' one is pretty good too. I liked Ali Clarkson's ones too.

Re. rigid vs. full sus I'd probably err towards messing around on the rigid, especially if it's the smaller bike, so long as it's set up as a trail bike rather than a commuter kind of thing with low bars....but either would do, you say you have proper grippy flat pedals, right?

@tb927 - the bikes are the same size, slightly different angles but stack and reach are within 5mm or so.

The FS has clips but I swap back and forth between clips and flats on the rigid.

Great, sounds like either would do. I find hardtails easier to pop into the air, but then it's what I'm used to...the timing I think is slightly different on a FS but once you have it down it's easy to adjust. There's a weird bit in the Ali Clarkson 'How to do Massive Bunnyhops' video at about 4:50 where he's stationary and he lifts the bike with one foot...this really helped my friend figure his feet out. It's almost harder lifting the rear wheel only than doing a hop but it's good if you can get that sorted out.

Don’t put SPD’s on for getting your bunnyhopping nailed, fact of the matter is you’ll just learn bad technique if you’re just pulling up...and it looks shit too!

Invest in some coaching

I don’t really get how people do cheat bunny hops without coming unclipped. It’s not a useful technique most of the time - Learning to unweight to ride over stuff is much more important for general trail riding. Proper (‘American’) bunny hops are an extension of that.

I actually don’t think bunny hops are super easy to learn. I remember playing about for months (when I was probably 10-12 years old) before I could do them. I definitely don’t have that sort of time to invest now. But then again there’s YouTube tutorials now so maybe you can learn faster these days. Good luck.

Stick with flats

I actually don’t think bunny hops are super easy to learn. I remember playing about for months (when I was probably 10-12 years old) before I could do them.

They're not easy to learn, I totally agree. It took me about the same length of time when I was 12 or 13-ish, just messing about in the back street on my Raleigh Burner trying to clear one brick, then two, then stitches... The thing is though, once you've learned how to do them it never really goes away, much like riding a bike 😎 The technique and timing changes from bike to bike, like a teeny, tiny DJ bike needs less input but faster timing than a big ol' 29er DH bike would.

But yeah, changing your bike around to cheat your way around learning/doing something properly is a bit bobbins. You can't [i]buy[/i] time on your bike learning the basics and even if you 'do a course' you still have to practise what you learn that day on your rides out otherwise you're just wasting your time and money.

So, is it easiest, maybe best might be a better word, to learn using a fully rigid or a full susser? Both are 29ers.

FS for sure, wheel size as ever is irrelevant.

I find I can bunny hop much higher using flats (my default is clips). The key is Newton's second law, and doing everything much slower and more exaggerated than you think.

FS needs more (almost feels exaggerated if you're used to HTs) input and takes slightly longer to get into the hop because you've got the suspension travel and damping to factor in as well. Rigid is the opposite because you've only got the squish from the tyres to deal with. HTs are somewhere in between.

Obviously someone who's used to one kind of bike will recommend that as being 'easier' because that's what they're familiar with. It's best to learn on the bike you'll actually be riding most of the time, there's no need to buy a new bike to learn to bunnyhop on.

FS vs Rigid is a bit like clipless vs flats. Rigid will teach you to land better than a FS will. If you have delicate wrists, you can't get away with landing like a sack of spuds on a rigid as much as you can on a FS - so learn on the rigid to master that.

Nobeer - mentioned the wheelsize purely because someone would ask about it.

I ride the rigid most of the time but use the FS more (if that makes sense).

Got plenty of time, which with my 61st hoving into view I'll probably need!

Rigid is easiest

I’d start on the rigid bike. If you can’t already manual properly (as in pop the front up correctly - holding that manual any distance is much harder and I’ve not mastered that bit yet) then I’d start there.

You don’t just pull up and back with your arms - the important bit is pushing your pedals forward and down (using your hips) whilst leaning back from the bum upwards. Keep your arms straight and a finger over the rear brake lever. If you feel you’re going to loop out (overbalance backwards) then a tap on the rear brake will bring the front down.

Once you’ve mastered that, then try to bunny hop on from there.

You pull a manual and as the front wheel gets somewhere near 45 degrees in the air you unweighted the back wheel / push the handlebars forward and the same time and kind of suck the rear wheel off the floor.

I remember it took me a while to learn but is so useful / rewarding once you’ve mastered it.

Learn to unweight the rear wheel only first.

Screw it.

I've ordered some hipster fixie ped straps and will report back how I get on with them.

That’s even worse!

I’ve ordered some hipster fixie ped straps and will report back how I get on with them.

Probably best not to try them out during the Covid crisis to avoid load on A&E, but when you do please get someone to film you.

Thanks! 🙂

For the record I ride a 9 year old Ragley Blue Pig X with 9 speed XT.

Most of my dollar goes on childcare and mortgage. 🙁

“Proper” bunny hopping uses technique that is useful for all sorts of other things (pumping, drop offs, manuals, etc)

This. Being clipped in and pulling the bike up with your feet is not bunny hopping, it's....jumping up. It's got naff all to do with riding a bike.

One day you'll unclip doing it and it'll hurt....a lot.

The key is Newton’s second law

Third

pulling the bike up with your feet is not bunny hopping, it’s….jumping up. It’s got naff all to do with riding a bike.

I'd disagree that there's "naff all" to do with riding a dike, the "pull up -  both wheels at the same time" you can do with clips is pretty useful if you're in a tight spot and just need the bike to be pointing in a different direction and there's not enough room to turn normally. I don't think there's any stuff that I've picked up just dicking about on a bike that I've learned that hasn't been useful at some point.

The trick with bunny hops for me was just separating out the two movements, get the manual sorted* and then get used to bringing the rear wheel up under your hips. Then once you can do both, then bring it all together. Oh, and bunny hopping up onto things is a bunch easier (for me) than off things.

* you don't need to be able to hold a manual for minutes at a time for a bunny hop, it's just the technique you're interested in, as the front wheel comes up with your weight shifted back, use that to stand up to bring the rear wheel up.

I’ve ordered some hipster fixie ped straps and will report back how I get on with them.

You've got about two days to learn to do it properly before they arrive then 🤣

Flat pedals and a couple of hours in a quiet park and you'll have figured it out.

I’d disagree that there’s “naff all” to do with riding a dike, the “pull up –  both wheels at the same time” you can do with clips is pretty useful if you’re in a tight spot and just need the bike to be pointing in a different direction and there’s not enough room to turn normally.

Yeah but that can be done on flats. How many trials riders are clipped in? You're relying on a mechanical connection to your pedals and not technique. Once you get it, it's intuitive and easy. Clipping in to hop is bypassing good technique that's valuable elsewhere.

Being clipped in and pulling the bike up with your feet is not bunny hopping, it’s….jumping up. It’s got naff all to do with riding a bike.
One day you’ll unclip doing it and it’ll hurt….a lot.

Agree it is not bunny hopping but it is a useful thing to do to just get over something that is in the way / a bad pothole. As I only ride fixed I can't really bunny hop but do still have to get the bike into the air to clear obstacles (while also needing to keep pedalling otherwise I would be straight over the bars on landing)

In 30 years of using clips I have never unclipped when pulling up on the pedals. That would only happen if my feet rotated 30 or so degrees at the same time so not sure how that could really happen. If you can unclip pulling straight up then your cleat/pedal needs replacing.

Im a spd user, have been ever since i started mtbing 22 years ago (never rode much when younger). As a consequence i have a tendancy for being lazy and relying on the spds when jumping and bunny hopping, mainly when i'm eeling tired. Theissue with this, is that the spds will always release when ou least expect it, resulting in inevitable near misses or painful endings.

Im not alwyas like this though, but it does frustrate me that i di d not learn proper control using flats in my early mtb life, i try now but really struggle, i even spent the north shore years fully clipped in..

Do yourself a favour, there is some good advise up here, learn to unweight the rear first, then work on the rocking motion you use in your wrists to level the bike out. The skill certanly helps on the trails, especially those that are more rooty, or have some big square edge hits, you will learn not just to plow throgh things resulting in blow outs.

Ajt - nobody has asked yet but, why do you feel you need to bunny hop during your regular riding?

If it is to jump over obstacles more than say 6 inches tall, you'd be better learning to bunny hop properly as you'll need to use the same technique with or without being fastened onto the pedals.

I've ridden SPDs for 30 yrs and yes it is useful to be able to pick the whole bike up using the pedals but mainly over small ish holes and roots etc when travelling quite fast.

However, actually getting over bigger obstacles and/or clearing anything with any conviction requires the 'bunny hop' process other wise you just lift the back wheel about 100mm and case the object.

Personally I don't like flats because I can't get my feet off them easily - sounds daft but it is second nature to twist not lift.

With practice and good feet position, techniques are always best learnt with flat imho. If you then choose to go to SPDs you can carry on the techniques with confidence you are using good form.

If you want some practise drills to improve your, erm, skills.. check out the Ryan Leech instructional videos ($1 for a month at the moment).

For some reason the yanks think they own the proper way to hop. It might stem from BMX but they always say there's the English way which is to lift both wheels at the same time then the American way which is to power the front wheel up then level out the back (unweighting).
I have to admit through the 80,s and into the early 90,s I used to lift both wheels which is crap. Then one day went to the bike expo and the Martin's were there doing the bunny hop challenge and I could see them practically kissing the front wheel as it came up the head height then tucking them selves in the level the back....after that I ditched the old shite way and never went back.
There was a lad at the bus station in MK last year on his bmx hopping over those red plastic temporary road barrier things jacked up on bricks for extra height which was pretty mad....he was laying the bike flat in the air like a table top.

Rabbits only move one way regardless of what country they are from

Oh yeah, ignore half the YouTube vids that tell you wrong way.

So if I can't bunny hop how do I tell which videos are right and which wrong?

If the instructor can consistently bunny hop over lets say 50cm then they're probably doing it right.

I've been meaning to learn to bunny hop for ages, and if I'm not going to do it now I'm probably never going to do it.

While I can pop the front with reasonable reliability, and dropping your toes and kicking the back up is easy, but linking them together into a fluid movement just seems impossible to me. It's like trying to do two completely opposite things at the same time. I know one follows the other, but I still can't do it.

I'm using my Genesis Longitude - rigid steel B+. It's ideal in a lot of ways - no suspension to complicate things, but a bit of cushioning from the big tyres. It is heavy though, and getting its arse in the air does need a bit of effort. I guess that's not helping.

No secret to it. It's just practise. One day, you just, get it.

As kids we just keep trying. Do that.

Aye, will keep at it (well, maybe give my sore arms a little break).

It’s like trying to do two completely opposite things at the same time.

It is two opposing movements, really, until you add upwards movement. Once you do that, lifting the back wheel isn’t about leaning forwards and putting the rear wheel in the air, nose down. It’s a levelling off movement and it becomes fluid.

I find it helps to imagine accelerating my core (chest area) directly upwards (not forwards). Obviously only small amounts initially, but really exaggerate for big hops.

I think it's quite a complex motor skill.Like learning most of these things some folk are good adaptive learners and can change and sense the feedback from what they are doing to change the outcome until they get it....and then hopefully it sticks .Whilst others are not so good and will just repeat the same thing a 1000 times expecting a different outcome.

It's such a fun game changing base skill to have ,so.....keep at it,if what your doing isn't working change it/experiment. Maybe switch off the digital breakdown of the separate movements of it......get more analogue - merge/blur them into one fluid motion .

Off the back of this thread I signed up to the Ryan Leech Connection (not sure if the link helps out stw?). I can sort of bunny hop already but not anything that's useful (maybe a few inches high across a foot). First impressions are really good, there's a lot of content (I imagine some would maybe argue too much filler) but it breaks everything down into some really handy drills where you can think about what you're supposed to be feeling/taking away. I think for me its knowing what is supposed to feel easy and what you need to build up strength/muscle memory to do. I always feel really self conscious dicking around doing this sort of thing, it feels like thats what I should have done when I was 12 and I'm too old now! Hopefully I'll get it soon, would love to be able to reliable clear trail obstacles like say a fallen tree. I've managed to pop a few manuals now where I've felt I'm getting close to a neutral point (and freaked out because I think I'm going to loop out!)

I find that learning it "off" the bike helps a lot. Literally stand next to the bike and lift the front. Then roll your wrists forwards (holding the bars tight) and pull the back wheel level at the same time. You'll feel a tit but it helps get that motion without fighting your body weight. Once you've nailed it fluidly then start doing it on the bike, and like others have mentioned, use your core to accentuate the movement.

I find that learning it “off” the bike helps a lot. Literally stand next to the bike and lift the front. Then roll your wrists forwards (holding the bars tight) and pull the back wheel level at the same time.

I tried that after watching the Phil Kmetz video. I found it pretty much impossible to get the rear wheel off the ground doing that - I think because of the weight, but mainly because of the rigid fork. Might get the full-sus out and try it. And yes, I felt a tit too 😀

I can sort of bunny hop already but not anything that’s useful (maybe a few inches high across a foot).

I think you're wrong. If you can bunny hop at all, then you can clear 99% of trail obstacles.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that being able to bunny hop higher isn't a good skill. It is, particularly since it can get you out of trouble E.g. if you are suddenly hurtling towards something unexpected.

But aside from dicking around in car parks or showing off, you rarely need to do massive bunny hops! For me, I'll only bunny hop to clear something if it's properly big - at a guess > 8" at least - and even then only if there's a very flat run in / run out. Pretty uncommon on most trails. Anything else, I'll ride over it doing a small pop to unweight my bike and let the tyres/suspension do the rest of the work. In most scenarios, maintaining tyre contact with the ground is more controlled, anyway. You can already do this!

If you do want to go bigger, it sounds like you have the technique, you just need to learn to put more explosive power in. This still takes practice to tune your efforts, otherwise you'll be unbalanced. But being able to move your weight around and 'go light' over stuff is much more important for general trail riding.

It’s like trying to do two completely opposite things at the same time. I know one follows the other, but I still can’t do it.

TBH, bunnyhops aren't the easiest way to get over obstacles. The roll-up technique is easier and safer, but you need to slow your speed, but it's still faster than getting off the bike.

It's basically a slowed down bunnyhop and you land your front wheel on the obstacle before lifting the rear onto it. To start with you want something you can comfortably get more than the full bike length on top of, but with practice (good timing) as long as you can land the front wheel on top the obstacle you can lift the rear wheel in the split second before the front rolls off.

As soon as the front wheel is on the obstacle you unweight the pedals, scoop with feet and push the bars forward.

This Duncan Shaw video shows the roll up technique (along with a few others):

Yeah Superficial, I see what you're saying but I don't feel confident using it out on the trail. To do my paltry effort I feel like I'm getting kind of out of shape and I don't have the confidence that I'd definitely clean the obstacle, even something like a big root. I'd like to go bigger so when I do get to something like a a big root cluster I know confidently I'll clean it. Looking at videos of myself vs. people who can do it properly I see I'm not getting my weight back enough so I don't get the front wheel high at all, which is where it all goes wrong!

You need to be 5'8". Over that its an impossibility.

some simple but key things worth trying that are often missed off the bunny hop how-tos:

roll your wrists down and almost imagine you are lifting the bars with your thumbs, it'll help pull your elbows in and improve the pull and lift action. Elbows out will pull your weight too forward. If you have massive wide bars You can try moving your hands in so they are closer together as this can help the action.

Try dropping your back heel as you are doing the pull, it can help shift your weight back and then roll it so the toe is down as you are lifting the back wheel - dropping the heel can help this to happen automatically.

You should be pulling the bar in towards your hips then you push away as you lift your feet and the back of the bike. Again, having the wrist down makes it easier to push against the bar and the back pedal pick the bike up.

One other thing to try is to stand next to the bike, lift the front wheel but keeping the back wheel in the same spot on the ground then push the bars forward - the back wheel will lift up on its own. That's the weight transfer that gets the bike in the air, the trick is to be on it 🙂

This is a bmx video but it shows the action really clearly. Same concept on MTB but the timing is a bit different / slower

Thanks joemmo.

I'm still trying, doing laps of the garden for about half an hour a day. Wearing a track in now 🙂

My garden's just about big enough to do a loop with an attempt at a bunny hop in it, but I can't carry any speed into it. Do people find it easier to learn with more of a run up or does doing it slower help?

I need to work on getting the back wheel up and connecting that with the front wheel pop - I can do that bit so I'm probably making the mistake of popping the front enough to do a massive bunny hop which I can't follow up. My front wheel's writing cheques my back wheel can't cash.

Watching the slow-mo step-up in that video sirromj posted, it's amazing how little movement he seems to make to pop the front up - there's no pedal action he must be doing it all with his bodyweight. Looks effortless but I imagine it's not.

Made a mess of my shin anyway. Before this must have been the first time in a long time my shins have been completely scab-free from not riding :-/

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No problem Northwind, keep at it. A little speed will help, mainly because you'll be better balanced but the hop doesn't really depends on it. Lifting the front wheel is done by pulling your weight back and up rather than lifting the bars with no body movement. Also if you're doing this with full suspension it helps to kind of pump the bike down hard with your feet at the beginning of the movement. This compresses the suspension so it soaks up less effort and you get a bit of boost from the rebound