[Closed] BTR vs Kingdom - Which HT frame brand would you choose and why, ignoring geo? ❤

a friend has a vendetta. its gorgeous.

However another friend has a moxie pipedream and I prefer that. Steel for hardtails my man.

Which frame has likely the best longevity? Looking for my dream frame to own for a long time.

Not Ti. From anybody.

BTR for me, but that's only because I prefer the look of steel over TI.

Curtis

@tomhoward why do you say that? What kind of difference are we lookng at?

I presume he means that titanium frames seem to have a far higher failure rate than steel, alu or carbon ones.

So longevity will be a question mark on the Kingdom.

Love to see the actual figures on that considering Ti is more fatigue resistant.

@longmover

Curtis AM7 comes in at ~2.3 kg in medium and starts at 1300 eur (with free customization) + 150 gbp for the clear coat ed seen here, the Curtis is verrry nice and in clear coat up there with the BTR in looks IMO.

I’m waiting for my Curtis AM9.....

Kingdom. Only in vendetta LS form 🙂

I've already got my perfect build planned, just need to get together the money to actually buy it... Lol.

A semi burley build with 150mm forks, dropper etc comes out at under 25lbs or 11kg. Yes please!!! The frames are about 1900g.

Ti for me, no worry about scratches or dents.

Edit: also 455 CS on the BTR 650b model, loooong. 423(!!!) On the Kingdom. Mega short and playful.

Love to see the actual figures on that

Who do you think would be compiling figures?

I’d go Kingdom just because I’ve always liked the look of them and have never had a Ti bike. The BTR is very pretty though and I do love a steel bike.

I’d go BTR. Their stuff seems really impressive from what I’ve seen, yet to test ride one though. Look incredible too.

Love to see the actual figures on that considering Ti is more fatigue resistant.

Steel has an endurance limit too. It's only aluminium that fatigues with low stress cycles.

The issue with Titanium is that it's easy to botch the forging and welding process leaving microscopic weaknesses.

I thought that the BTR was one of the best bikes I have ever ridden. I don't own one. Having said that, the Curtis for an extra £150 with custom geometry would be very hard to ignore. Looks like they use fancier steel too.

I can only speak for the Vendetta as I've got the non posh one in X2 flavour.

Mine is a large and weighs approx. 2.2kg, I'm 5' 11" and have a longer torso and arms and find the frame quite long so run a 35mm stem and 760mm bars. I've find this helps with keeping the steering responsive for tight turns and helps with when you want to pop the front wheel for drops, wheelies etc.

I think the exposed welds on the X2 look lovely, some people have even polished them to make them stand out even more. I can't imagine why you would want to paint the frame.

Some people have stated about the height of the bottom bracket being high, I can't say I've noticed any real difference and can still bash my pedals on rocks with 175mm cranks.

I find the ride great, its very responsive, has that lovely Ti floating feel, and when you really start to put it through its paces the frame feels like its got that little bit of give or springiness which encourages you to look for things to pop off. I thought running it in 27.5 rather than 29 it may not be quite so agile and whippy with the rear due to having the longer stays to cope with 29 wheels but it feels agile enough to me. The bike feels so tough that it'll take anything you want to throw it down (within reason) and it'll go far faster than I'm prepared to take it, I thought I might struggle with short steep climbs coming from a 120mm 29er but the steepish seat tube really helps with climbing and I can still make it up them ok.

Obviously some of this depends on set up and I've got Flow rims and a 150mm Pike up front, you could go 160 or even 170mm.

If you want an even slacker version of the X2 then have a word with Adam @ reallygoodbikes.co.uk as he did have some stock of a UK version, not sure if he's still got any? And he can sort out a test ride.

Having had a steel (Solaris) before I would say its more playful, lighter (not so planted) and better for descending.

The BTR frames (Ranger) do look lovely with a slight industrial look a bit like a Nicolai and I'm sure they would be a blast to ride, I'm just not sure with their long reach that they would be as agile and playful but, that could be said about a lot of these long reach frames.

I definitely encourage you to take a test ride of each. Nice problem to have to make a decision on 🙂

I’m just not sure with their long reach that they would be as agile and playful but, that could be said about a lot of these long reach frames.

To be fair, I loved it but that's coming from a Nicolai Geometron hardtail so I clearly like long bikes! I even rode the XL size BTR....

Don't own either, but of those two I'd pick the BTR. I like the concept, craftsmanship and aesthetic. They also seem like genuinely good guys who just love bikes. I think of them as the slightly more sensible older brother to Sick's delinquent teenager.

The clincher though, is down to a riding mate getting one. In the flesh they are just amazing looking things.

BTR . Mate has a lacquered steel one, A thing of beauty . much nicer than the vendetta, which is still a tidy looking bike. You can get it tweaked to suit your required geo. And they are bloody rapid. We were on a DH track in Italy he was overtaking lads in full DH bikes that were fair shifting it.

@danti Thanks for sharing your experience! Now this is a disregarding geo comparison, as you could get close to the exact geo you want for any of these brands. Personally I'd want to increase the head angle as I'm making a full rigid bike more streetable do absolutely everything bike (close to their DJ specific X2, BTR Ignitor or Curtis Racelite).

@bigwill Is laquered steel different from clear coat? Why does it look so much browner than the clear coated curtis? I do absolutely love the color of the BTR and how it contrasts to black parts.

If you do want to customize geo, it seems like BTR and Curtis would end up costing about the same, as Curtis offers free customization.

Was looking for a pub bike..lol

I have a Pinner, the build quality is first class. It’s not got long stays like quoted above, 425mm on an XL frame from memory.

Tam is excellent to deal with and communication was always good.

A lot of love goes into making BTR frames, not sure you’d get that from a mass produced bike.

It would have to be the BTR for me.  Chatted to them at one of the bike shows and they're really friendly and enthusiatic about what they do, happy to do custom work, they build in the UK and the bike just looks stunning in the flesh.  It would also be one of the few bikes that will look better the more scratched and beat up it got.  The Kingdom or Curtis frames are lovely too but they wouldn't look good if abused, seeing as a bike is for riding that would worry me.

i have a vendetta LS, and it is lush. I don't know anything about BTR, sorry, but i do love steel. (my ICT).

fairly burly-ish build, 28.9lb. rides really nice around afan. feels quite calm, thought it was going to be all agro, and grrrrr.

I have a BTR ranger and when deciding my shortlist was the Vendetta and the BTR, I went for the BTR for a few reasons, but principally

Geometry - the concept of a shorter travel fork on a hardtail makes so much sense, the thought and care that has gone in to the design is exceptional

and its British made just up the road from me

Also incredibly glad that I did, it is superb and the finish and quality of the weld has me grinning constantly!

Oh yeah, it also rides incredibly well blah blah blah

BTR for me, for the same reason I already have one, they're a pair of great guys, with great ideas, putting in a great amount of effort to make great bikes in the UK.

My heart says BTR, at the end of the day, 400 grams in weight difference isn't a big deal, but easier repair-ability might be. I don't think rust is a real concern.

But how would I mount a  Velo Orange full fender on the BTR during winter when it's delegated to transportation duties with no seat stay brace? LOL (P clamps takes care of the other mounting points).

+ 

?????????????

Kingdom. Just because the seatstays on the BTR look like they were made from garden furniture (fugly).

I do love a good Yohandsome thread.

BTR because Tam used to properly abuse his bikes when I knew him and rode DH races on hardtails - I doubt you will break it.

Curtis.

BTR all day long

Vendetta because its Ti and stunning

Not keen on the BTR at all - what's going on with the head tube - urgh !

Only thing that puts me off the Vendetta is the fact that I would want to run  27in wheels with normal tyres. How can it cater for all wheel sizes...That's basically like saying its a 29er, but I want to sell it to everybody in the entire world!!! I could put 27in wheels in any old 29er if I didn't care about my BB scraping along the ground.

@ndthornton dat headtube give 'er strenth n character <3

May or may not make a difference but BTR seem to be on a 20 week leadtime currently.

Had a chat with a lad on a Kingdom at Cannock the other week.  It was very nice indeed.