[Closed] Brooks. How sad.

if you buy brooks stuff from rosebikes in Germany, you pay about 30% less than in the uk. god knows how that works..... 😕

You really don't understand business do you...

Brooks are a premium product. Brooks want to sell said premium product. Most prospective customers expect premium products to seem premium. Having a pretentious boutique home is part of that - see Apple...

In addition, Brooks have a large foreign market that love the Britishness of it all. Covent Garden is a common tourist spot. It's not rocket science, it's just image crafting.

Or are you saying that Brooks should just stick with marketing their product to beardy wierdy touring types who'll buy them regardless. Fine except it's not a great business model as there really aren't that many of those customers about as most people reckon (rightly IMO) that Brooks are lovely in terms of effort and craft but actually don't perform as well as modern saddles.

Now, I'm not one for being argumentative....ahem

I think the thing with brooks is that they're still a good saddle, regardless of where they're sold. It might be fair to say that the serious cyclist won't make an effort to go to the brooks store but rather buy theirs on line for less monies. You're aiming at a different market with a Covent Garden shop, cycling is currently cool and they're just capitalising on a new market.

I also like Belstaff jackets...Barbour are still poop though...

vinnyeh - Member
On a wander through Covent Garden with family at the weekend, and stumbled upon the Brooks store, a store that was new to me.

What a ****fest.

Quote of the internetz 😆

I remember when DM'S were to footwear choice of footy hooligans and right wing loonies.......... 😀

Good points nemesis, but it still seems like a bit of a stretch for the brand to me.

Hope they serve tea rather than poncey coffee anyway.

🙂

Brooks, the epitome of Britishness, are owned by Selle Royal of Italy.

Selle also own Crank Brothers...

Being a bit hard on them OP
If that kind of marketing saved Belstaff ,then why not Brooks(if they need saving).
Brooks are not cheap ,so they may as well milk the hipster/city market any way they can.

They are part of the same group as Crank Brothers.

shouldn't they be leveraging synergies?

It's a bit annoying, but they're Italian owned and priced to appeal to the boutique crowd these days.

You can still get them for a reasonable price if you shop around, Spa have a few.

The Spa range of updated designs are really, really good though and I prefer them to the equivalent Brooks.

I've got the Nidd, which I prefer over the B17 I've had for years.
Thicker hide, built like a tank and a waterproof lining underneath so I can use it in the gloop and wet without killing it.

Made in the Far East, but if Brooks will price themselves out of a significant portion of the market someone will fill that gap.

Company in trying to make money shocker

OP, I'm sure you can still source some artisan saddles made by blind nuns in a remote mountain cave using leather sourced from descendants of the cow that was in the manger at the birth of jesus.

Keep it real bro.

I've got the Nidd, which I prefer over the B17 I've had for years.
Thicker hide, built like a tank and a waterproof lining underneath so I can use it in the gloop and wet without killing it.

I tried a Nidd for about a thousand miles. it was like being dry bummed by someone well endowed....... 😀

fasthaggis - Member

If that kind of marketing saved Belstaff ,then why not Brooks

IIRC old Belstaff died completely in the mid-2000s and all that was sold on was the name, for buttons. (I got one of their bike jackets in the fire sale, it's ace) Apparently the last time they changed hands it was for 110 million euros so not bad going there

.Barbour are still poop though...

How dare you, i still have a perfect wax jacket in navy blue that my parents bought me when i was 16....i'm 36 now, that thing could survive the apocalypse....they dont make 'em like that anymore etc etc...

Brooks saddles are overweight, overpriced weapons of ass destruction. They belong in a museum, not on a bike.

I agree (well actually they are comfy once worn in but luckily there are plenty of saddles nowadays that for me at least are comfy right from new). Which is exactly why they need to be marketed as in the OP IMO...

Took me about 1500.
🙂

I've ridden worse, but it's a bit of a plank at first.

The B17 Narrow it replaced (too narrow for flat bars) cost me about 30 quid in about 2002 btw. 😐

IIRC old Belstaff died completely in the mid-2000s

NW ...old Belstaffs never die ,they just get more and more layers of roadkill,dirt,flies,leaves,wax and oil.
My one is still in my mum's shed and it's the only thing the mice won't touch . 🙂

Deviant - I'm sure the older stuff is fine, but I went in to the local Barbour store in Canary Wharf to look at their motorbike jacket and its bloody awful. The cut of it is all wrong, or I'm just an odd shape. Either way, it wasn't for me.

I've always been put off by the effort required to keep a brooks in decent nick. A lot of big mileage riders swear by them though, so they must work for some folks.

I see plenty of blokes on (new) Brommies hacking into/out of Canary Wharf wobbling side to side sharing the pain on the butt cheeks of thier new Brooks saddle.
😯

Brooks saddles are overweight, overpriced weapons of ass destruction. They belong in a museum, not on a bike.

Hopefully the over-expansion will break the brand and Selle will ditch it; then the craftsmen can either buy out or set up a new brand.

nemesis - Member

... but luckily there are plenty of saddles nowadays that for me at least are comfy right from new.

Yep, I agree.
But I just like leather saddles.

I've got a Rolls and a Spoon on other bikes, but for a tourer they're ace, like a favourite pair of shoes.

And the Spa one is faff free.

Hopefully the over-expansion will break the brand and Selle will ditch it; then the craftsmen can either buy out or set up a new brand.

Or just stop making saddles as it ceases to be a viable business model...

flange - Member
Deviant - I'm sure the older stuff is fine, but I went in to the local Barbour store in Canary Wharf to look at their motorbike jacket and its bloody awful. The cut of it is all wrong, or I'm just an odd shape. Either way, it wasn't for me.

Agree with you on that, the better half and I had a touristy London day recently and went into a Barbour shop to look at bike jackets and walked out disappointed and disillusioned....crap fit, over priced, felt cheap to the touch etc etc....i'll be sticking with Alpinestars for my bike stuff.

I think you either fit a brooks or don't. I fit a b17, nut not the narrower models.

I'm ok with the Narrow on a bike with drops, but it's just a bit uncomfy with flats.

nemesis - Member

Or just stop making saddles as it ceases to be a viable business model...

Or just stop the cloying over-marketing, improve the product, remove the snob tax and reprice accordingly.

I'd rather buy British made, but if I can get the same thing significantly better and cheaper elsewhere I will.

Steve, you're talking nonsense. I have B17, Swift and Swalllow's and just fitted a bouncy (V heavy) one to the Humu. All good....It's like having your bottom caressed by angels............

Steve, you're talking nonsense. I have B17, Swift and Swalllow's and just fitted a bouncy (V heavy) one to the Humu. All good....It's like having your bottom caressed by angels............

You can fit a very heavy and very expensive saddle, then wait (in agony) for an age while it breaks in. Or you can fit a cheap and light saddle, which is comfortable from the start.

I choose the latter.

B17 Narrow for me, has the same shape as a Flite Ti. Was comfortable from the beginning and always comfortable with jeans. I also had a Brooks Colt that was never comfortable until I sat more upright on my Brompton. For a touring bike, I think you can't go wrong, personally.

Hope Brooks do well, but I have no interest in their "premium" products.

Or just stop the cloying over-marketing, improve the product, remove the snob tax and reprice accordingly.

Of course. And with a much smaller company (partly because you've ceased marketing and not looking to sell to the people who actually will buy because of it), it's likely that'll be at least as expensive if not more...

Hence, not viable...

Or just stop the cloying over-marketing, improve the product, remove the snob tax and reprice accordingly.

I'd rather buy British made, but if I can get the same thing significantly better and cheaper elsewhere I will.

fair enough, i doubt Brooks will miss your custom.
having been to the Brooks factory and seen how the product is made they dont really need to do much except keep making and selling the product, they are running at capacity and there is no point in sending production overseas as that will kill the brand or enlarging the factory when it’s far easier and less financial risk to just charge a bit more for your heritage product all the while you can sell everything you make.

if a ‘concept store’ helps the business and builds brand awareness beyond wizened audax riders then it’s got to be a good thing.

Brooks as a company as dead on its arse until the Italians rode in on their white horse. Which would you prefer? Yet another British company out of business with all its staff and their knowledge laid off or full order books and more business than they can cope with?
You'll be saying the same thing about Brompton next with their recent huge expansion and consequent increase in workforce.
All these things are good IMHO, I may not be super keen on the marketing led business model, but if it keeps British people in work then I'm happy. Admittedly a lot of the new fashion Brooks stuff is made in Italy...

Howies went the same way for a while, bought out by some brand marketing concept ****sters. Opened a Covent Garden store and started sell "unique" jeans at over £200 a go 🙄 The whole was thing was complete and utter bollox, good company gone bad.

IRC I think they bought themselves bought themselves back from the marketing mob but my memory is not 100%. I stopped buying from them ages ago and see no need to return.

@nemesis + 1

Also maybe as brooks move further up the consumer chain they then create a gap below for a new little niche saddle company to develop

a vast amount of the bags, jersey and jackets that you think are just souvenirs with the Brooks name on are modern interpretations of old Brooks products that the new owners Selle Italia found in old catalogues and decided to re-introduce in an attempt to revitalise the brand, a business decision that has worked quite well really.

well, here's a first for stw....

Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my judgement.

😆

I am constantly amazed by the ability of some people to "do down" successful British companies, ownership may be overseas but the workforce isn't.
The marketing led business model is what helps get the UK shipping goods overseas, we can't compete with cheap mass produced goods from China and the east so need to build a model that increases percieved value and gets people spending more on ostensibly better things.

Why not expand the range to to other cycling goods and have a nice shop somewhere to add a bit of sparkle? Saddles are pretty dowdy but the cycling "lifestyle" isn't. I think anything that gets more people out of cars and on bikes is worth doing.

The marketing led business model is what helps get the UK shipping goods overseas, we can't compete with cheap mass produced goods from China and the east so need to build a model that increases percieved value and gets people spending more on ostensibly better things.

True enough - the Chinese mass-produced stuff is much better, so marketing BS is their best option.

I do want to make clear that while I think their business model is spot on, from a consumer perspective, I think it's all pretty ****y. But them I'm not their target market so that doesn't really matter 🙂

Do people in London actually look like this?

[img] [/img]

Define better 🙂

Better for you (and as above, probably for me too) but if you're the sort of person that appreciates the craftsmanship as much as the functional product itself then the fact that it's made by a bunch of people in a British factory while chasing greyhounds (insert cliche here - actually they're midlanders, aren't they?) makes the Brooks ones better. I think that's particularly true of the overseas market for whom Britishness is a real selling point IME.

Better for you (and as above, probably for me too) but if you're the sort of person that appreciates the craftsmanship as much as the functional product itself then the fact that it's made by a bunch of people in a British factory while chasing greyhounds (insert cliche here - actually they're midlanders, aren't they?) then that's value...

Craftsmanship should include design as well as skill. Otherwise you may as well stick it in a display case...

£239.99 for a saddle that weighs 360g. The concept store customers are welcome to them.

Brooks would argue that the design is perfect. It's that their (and their customers') criteria are different to yours and mine...

£239 for a saddle that will last 50 years + if you treat it right, is crash resistant and uber comfortable. Seems cheap to me. Just because you don't see that value doesn't mean it isn't there.

It's that their (and their customers') criteria are different to yours and mine...

Yes, I have criteria relevant to the act of riding a bicycle, such as wanting comfort and a component slightly lighter than a boat anchor.

£239 for a saddle that will last 50 years + if you treat it right, is crash resistant and uber comfortable. Seems cheap to me. Just because you don't see that value doesn't mean it isn't there.

Some people find them comfortable eventually, having spent a thousand miles of perineal purgatory. I'll stick with my cheap, light saddles that are comfortable from the off, and seem good for 20 years or so.

I remember when DM'S were to footwear choice of footy hooligans and right wing loonies..........

LOL. As I sit here at a desk supping a brew in my IT management job. Wearing a pair of DMs.

£239 for a saddle that will last 50 years +

WTF would anyone want a saddle thats going to last 50 years?! I can't see a 30 year old buying one for their rad enduro machine thinking "ooo, thats money well spent because it'll still be lovely when I'm 80". Sorry, I just don't get Brooks stuff at all. It belongs in the 1940s. Same as Pashley bikes. I'm massively dissappointed when Pashley tried to enter the modern age with their TV series stuff they didn't progress from there. Instead they scrapped it and went back to making heavy bikes for middle aged women to flaunt around on in Cambridge and Oxford. TV series AM hardtail in 853 and ivory colour to take a 150mm fork etc. Would be ace...

Do you have a beard, ransos?

Did someone at Brooks force you to buy a product at gunpoint or something? You seem pretty pissed off at them.

Do you have a beard, ransos?

Did someone at Brooks force you to buy a product at gunpoint or something? You seem pretty pissed off at them.

I just think their product is total crap.

I think they are lush....I have just been stroking my leathery length round the back.....lussshhhhh... 8)

DaveyBoyWonder - Member
WTF would anyone want a saddle thats going to last 50 years?! I can't see a 30 year old buying one for their rad enduro machine thinking "ooo, thats money well spent because it'll still be lovely when I'm 80". Sorry, I just don't get Brooks stuff at all. It belongs in the 1940s. Same as Pashley bikes. I'm massively dissappointed when Pashley tried to enter the modern age with their TV series stuff they didn't progress from there. Instead they scrapped it and went back to making heavy bikes for middle aged women to flaunt around on in Cambridge and Oxford

because Brooks and Pashley have rad enduro riders as their target market don't they

Not even an ironic one.

You (nor I) wouldn't understand then 😉

Because they like cycle touring in comfort? Own a Brompton? Have reasons for wanting things to last that are increasingly outmoded in this break and replace society. I know several people whos Brooks saddle has moved from bike to bike over the years.

You seem like one of the angry ones, would you like a dried frog pill?

a vast amount of the bags, jersey and jackets that you think are just souvenirs with the Brooks name on are modern interpretations of old Brooks products that the new owners Selle Italia found in old catalogues and decided to re-introduce in an attempt to revitalise the brand, a business decision that has worked quite well really.

Yet they still refuse to relaunch this model:

[img] [/img]

😀

I reckon the dislikers don't ride their bikes for more that a hour at a time. and only when their mrs lets em.

Because they like cycle touring in comfort? Own a Brompton? Have reasons for wanting things to last that are increasingly outmoded in this break and replace society. I know several people whos Brooks saddle has moved from bike to bike over the years.

You seem like one of the angry ones, would you like a dried frog pill?

I like cycle touring in comfort. That's why I don't use a Brooks. 😉

I reckon that the likers dress up in sudacrem laced lederhosen at home to try and sooth themselves. Only when the mrs is out though 😉

I reckon you are pretty near the mark........... 😆

....It's like having your bottom caressed by angels............

it was like being dry bummed by someone well endowed.......

This would appear to be a case of one man's pleasure is another man's pain 😯

It's a bit like being dry-bummed by angels. My Swift has been comfy from day one over any distance unlike the SDG Bel Air which I also like. I don't care about Brooks' aspirational BS but I do like their saddles. Just wish they could deal with getting wet a bit better.

scruff - Member

Do people in London actually look like this?

[img] [/img]
/p>

I believe they look like this

They’re obviously not for everyone, and they do have some drawbacks, but there are reasons why they’re seen on so many audax bikes.

I bought my first (a titanium-railed Swift) about 20 years ago, and it was a lot comfier at first than I was expecting. The break-in period seems to differ from saddle to saddle, and possibly with the colour. However, some of the recent ones I’ve seen in bike shops do seem to be pretty solid.

I later bought a couple of brown titanium-railed Swallows, and used one on my fixie audax bike (yes, yer typical customer!). That one took a lot longer to soften and dimple.

With a Brooks I still suffered a bit on really long rides, and would often think that I would describe the saddles as being ‘not uncomfortable'. However, on a good day it could feel like you were being gently cradled whilst floating on air!

I still have them. The older one looks like it’s seen a lot of miles, and appears to be turning furry. However, I’m not sure I’ll ever sit on them again, as I’m now riding recumbents. So, yes, I suppose buying a Brooks did signal the start of a slippery slope…

I have a 26 year old Brooks still in use on a hacker. I also have a B17 on my tourer. And a C17 on my hardtail (rubber not leather, amazing). There is no better saddle....apart from weight, cost and the fact leather dislikes water! For plain function they are the best.

The shop sounds crap though. I don't buy into that sort of guff.

Gotta be said, I like their Cambrium..
Spotty dog IMHO.

[IMG] [/IMG]

I just think their product is total crap

I think that way about lots of things such as John smiths beer, tescos finest sausages, planet-x, Lusso clothing, illy coffee amongst numerous others. I find it quite easy to buy alternatives though, maybe this will work for you too.