[Closed] Broken geometron

Thread lock and being at one with my bike enough to know when something isn't quite right. I don't regularly check bolts - only if something is creaking.

That, plus regular cleaning. Great way to spot a loose spoke or bolt.

I rarely check bolts but I tighten them up to correct torque so don't expect them to come loose (maybe I've just been lucky!). How did having loose bolts destroy your frame? Surely you hear/feel it before it becomes a serious issue.

Bird is one of the few brands that do a properly long reach, don't think your shock would fit but you could shim the post.

Light thread lock and a torque wrench and I’d be surprised/disappointed if anything came loose.  As the owner of a 2016 Ion I’d be interested to hear more detail about what you’ve had go wrong

Custom Geo Starling fits the description. Steel single pivot so not much to go wrong or come loose.

I have a service sheet where I keep track of stuff.

Mostly with bolts, I torque to value with thread lock and dont check thereafter.

There was a knocking from the bike and I kept putting off looking at it. My bike had an older design where the bolts at the dropouts that held the chain stays to the seat stays went into the chain stay. The knocking was one of these bolts. When I got round to tightening it, the bolt had worn the chain stay. When tightened there was still play. If I just kept riding it it would have got worse.

The new drop out have the black bit at the end. This is replaceable so if the same thing happened it would just be the one wee black bit to replace not the whole chain stay.

I stripped some of the bolts holding the drop out plate in place. When a new one turned up the frame has cracked.

I think it's because the drop out has not been tight enough and it's been shuffling about.

It also snapped a bolt in the linkage on the first morning of a week in the bike park. I think that was due to over tightening. It was pricy getting it drilled out and replaced.

Pretty unlucky there op.

I do use a torque wrench and I use thread lock in places where it seems logical or recommended by the manufacturer. That said, even before owning a torque wrench and regularly using thread lock it's been very rare for me to have a bolt/ nut come loose.

One got 2 torque wrenches, one for the low torque stuff (generic, sometimes labeled as "Lifeline" etc I think) and a cheap car one from ebay for the stupid tight stuff you sometimes get on crank sets etc. Careful on the thread lock you use, some will be bastard tight to undo if used in the wrong application.

Unlucky or hamfisted and lazy? ; )

I'm hoping it's the latter and some better maintenance sees the bike last me until I "need " an evite

That is a pretty sorry tale of woe 🙁. I’m going to take a look at my dropouts later and check them over

Get a bird am9 and whilst ordering add the small parts frame diagram hoodie into the order. Then you will never be short of a torque spec or threadlock/antiseize instruction.

An XL Pole Evolink 140 might fit the bill. €1400 at the moment with shock. Similar geometry wise.

Same side for both failures? Might be worth asking mojo/nicolai if there's anything else to look at here. Having had an old 26" nicolai it required no more maintenance than my hardtail.

I can't help but wonder if something else is culprit, especially given it was 2nd hand.

how do you keep on top of stuff like bolt checks? Every month? Before or after a big ride?

Before you're going to ride, spend an hour with a tea/coffee/beer the night before checking it over.

I did this last night as I'm out for a quick lunch ride today between calls, luckily I did as the bottom jockey wheel had seized.

Same side for both failures? Might be worth asking mojo/nicolai if there’s anything else to look at here. Having had an old 26″ nicolai it required no more maintenance than my hardtail.

I can’t help but wonder if something else is culprit, especially given it was 2nd hand.

I'm thinking this too. Given you're having to chuck money at it for these parts, why not have a good chat with the awesome guys at Geometron/Mojo Rising and get some advice about it all? They might have some thoughts about it, may offer some tips to keep it running better in the future, and maybe it's worth getting them to give the whole frame a little TLC while fitting up the new parts? May cost a few quid, but probably a good investment,especially as it looks like you're fitting the new modular stays.

Custom Geo Starling fits the description. Steel single pivot so not much to go wrong or come loose.

Posted 10 hours ago

Another vote for this.

Two standard sized, cheap bearings, and an axle bolted into solid steel. Happy days.
In theory, looking after a few pivots and bolts is no biggie, in practice it's a bit of a pain in the bum.

Definitely don't go Pole evolink unless you want your suspension woes to go from bad to worse!

I've learned to do the following from experience, I wrote off an RP23 shock by riding it for a couple of rides with a loose bushing, I've damaged frame threads by riding the frame with worn axle threads, I've ridden wheels for months wondering what the wobble sensation was,

So thesedays ideally the day before a ride I do:

Grab each wheel and wobble it side to side to check for wobbly wheel bearing wear and/or axle tightness

Grab both crank arms and wobble side to side to check for wobbly bottom bracket bearing wear, and up and down (as though you're bouncing up and down on the pedals) to check for crank tightness on the splines (Shimano).

Put hand on rear wheel to keep it on the ground, grab top tube with other hand and try to pick bike up, this will show you if you have any play in the frame bearings and/or shock mount, if you do, start working through the different tubes of the bike wobbling them as you go to try to track down any play, you can usually feel it change when you hold a certain tube, grab lower shock eyelet and wobble this too.

Hold front brake and wobble bike forwards and backwards to check for headset preload and/or fork bushings.

Look at brake pads every now and again.

Go around the wheels and squeeze each pair of spokes to check for spoke tension... learned this from having my first pair of self-built wheels turn into spaghetti after a couple of rides. There's 4 pairs of spokes per side of wheel, takes 10 seconds.

I only buy cheapish XT/KMC X11/Sunrace CSMX8 drivetrain so don't bother checking chains and just replace the whole thing once a year.

It sounds like a lot when you list it like that, but you can do this stuff in less than 30 seconds if there's no wobbliness anywhere.

Custom Geo Starling fits the description. Steel single pivot so not much to go wrong or come loose.

And if you’re lucky, you might get a straight one 😆

Gutted for you mate! But perfect excuse to get Transition sentinel.........

🙁 is it just me, or is it visible where the bolt holes have been 'hammered' by the movement of the loose dropout?
If it were me, of be tempted to see if that can be TIGed, as it's plate, not tube.
However, I am not a fabrication person, that may be a silly idea.

On a more serious note, looking at the pictures, given the dropout is held in place by 4 bolts, i'd be more included to take that to a local Alu welder, get it fixed & just ride it & make sure the bolts are tight.

Gutted for you mate! But perfect excuse to get Transition sentinel………

Haha, looks like him upstairs read your previous thread.

Sorry, shouldn't laugh, I know how you must feel OP.

Ha yep indeed! But if you can’t stretch to that, these guys did an amazing job of bracing up an orange five swingarm I cracked.
https://www.giaengineering.co.uk/

I'd try getting it welded, the interface between the dropout and frame is pretty big so IF everything is kept tight then I would imagine it would hold up.

It is worth keeping an eye on any new noises or funny feelings. I definitely don't check my bike every ride but if there's a new rattle then find it asap

As an Orange owner, I'm always listening out for new rattles which might signal that my frame has cracked.

Thought I'd finally done it a couple of months ago, but it turned out to be the finned pads in my brakes.

Phew.

What do the guys at Geometron have to say about it all - I would have thought that was the first stop shop, rthare than planning the next frame.
The geometry looks like it was built to ride through the Apocalypse - if it is fragile I would be rightly miffed ....
As I think Chris and the team would ...

how do you keep on top of stuff like bolt checks? Every month? Before or after a big ride?

I generally check mine every few rides after a wash. Any play you can normally feel by just lifting the linkage in my experience any way. Cotics famous "headset like" link on the seattube is something that needs to be kept on top of.

Definitely don’t go Pole evolink unless you want your suspension woes to go from bad to worse!

Have you had issues with one?

As an Orange owner, I’m always listening out for new rattles which might signal that my frame has cracked.

How do you tell which are the new ones and which are the perfectly-normal-part-of-the-appeal-of-orange-ownership ones?

I've never seen a broken Geometron. Not from riding or normal use. Nothing but praise on the FB owners club. Compare that to the posts on the Pole owners group and it's quite a contrast.

I use a small Wera torque wrench and Loctite on my G16. You just inspired me to check it over and they're all still snug. Although it's barely left the house in 2020.

After 3 and a bit years I do keep looking at other bikes but still not sure what I'd replace it with.

how do you keep on top of stuff like bolt checks?

I fit everything properly, and use threadlock (where necessary), I also normally I give everything a wiggle to check for unusual/unexpected play before each ride, and check all important bolts whenever I have to do any other maintenance.

Also, if anything starts making unexpected noises or I feel movement/play that shouldn't be there I check it out immediately and then either fix it on the spot, or if it's not terminal or likely to cause further issues make sure it's sorted before next ride.

So basically don't do this:

There was a knocking from the bike and I kept putting off looking at it

If you really can't keep on top of a preventative maintenance schedule at least make sure you react to 'bad things' when they happen.

That particular frame is probably not a suitable one for someone who is prone to ignore knocking noises. It's covered in bolts that could potentially come loose.

If my bike is making any funny noises I stop riding and try to work out what is causing it. If I can't work it out on the trail I will strip it down when I get home.

How do you tell which are the new ones and which are the perfectly-normal-part-of-the-appeal-of-orange-ownership ones?

Believe it or not, they are actually nice and quiet these days.

Getting it welded.

The alloy is not massively thick there. I thought about it. Then I thought about having faith in the frame when doing something daft. Hence new seat stays.

Same for the chain stays. I'm sure I could have had something done to fix them. But I'd rather have it be right.

What do the guys at Geometron have to say about it all – I would have thought that was the first stop shop, rthare than planning the next frame.
The geometry looks like it was built to ride through the Apocalypse – if it is fragile I would be rightly miffed ….
As I think Chris and the team would …

I've just gone through Nicolai. The mojo guys had a bit on their face book page about re doing bearings for £££££. I decided to buy the tools from Nicolai to do it myself. I'm more tempted to get them to look over it now.

Frame is fine, my maintence is the weakest link here.

New frame, more if there are any others about that would swap all my kit over. I'm up to 3 190x50mm shocks. Most of the more recent frames are metric or trunnion or both.

That particular frame is probably not a suitable one for someone who is prone to ignore knocking noises. It’s covered in bolts that could potentially come loose.

I've stopped ignoring knocking sounds now!
Now it's time to stop ignoring preventative maintenance 🙂

Gutted for you mate! But perfect excuse to get Transition sentinel………

Thanks! That probably is why the frame was flexing the other ride 🙄

I did make the geometron faster- I'm pedaling more!

You arn't going to get more reliable than a geometron, i'd point towards your maintenance regime. Get a list together of all the components, work through them, checking all the bolts and condition. You could go one step closer and check everything with a torque wrench, more reliable.

Other option is Torque the bolt down, paint the joint between the frame/component and bolt with nail varnish/ambersil market paint/loctite 7414 or similar. If the nail varnish cracks/comes off, the joint needs attention. This is widely used in motorsport.

Loctite 7414: https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/uk/en/product/corrosion-protectors/loctite_sf_7414.html

Gutted for you mate! But perfect excuse to get Transition sentinel………

Hope its been stripped and rebuilt before use, dry axles all over the place. Changing the bearings on a patrol last year was a miserable job, axle stuck to the bearings, nice bit of galvanic corrosion.

Believe it or not, they are actually nice and quiet these days.

Must be going deaf!!!

Believe it or not, they are actually nice and quiet these days.

I the lad I ride with who rides a stage 6 would disagree, the approach these days is his bike is like a child, only worry when it's quiet.

After losing a bolt on a recent bike

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Milwaukee-INKZALL-Yellow-Liquid-Paint-Marker-Write-On-Dust-Wet-Oil-Surfaces/132577622895?epid=8034034797&hash=item1ede3dfb6f:g:dUoAAOSwhbdfUd7d

Yellow paint pen on the bolts now, can see instantly if they're loose

I do sometimes use a torque wrench, but often I don't. I never check bolts before a ride. However I am very sensitive to knocking noises or sensations that something is wrong, and I'll immediately stop and track it down. And I will only ride the bike if I'm sure it's not going to ruin anything.

Well after a load of faffing and buying a new blind bearing puller it's all gone back together.

There were a couple of stuck bearings that exploded. When were they changed? No idea! Any way...

As well as the 4 bolts that hold the dropout on there is a pin that goes through the drop out plate, the frame and drop out. I had to drill the frame in the correct place to get the wheel to line up. That went fine.

I took it out today in the horrible slop. Manky enough that a dog walker looked me up and down and exclaimed "look at the state of you!' this might also explain the state of the bearings.

The bike itself was as great as always. Even better for 3 weeks only riding my hardtail.

Aaaaaaaaaad I'm relaxed and can stop looking for a different frame 🙂

Good to hear you've got it back together.

The sealing on the geometrons is very good, additional o-rings on the bearing caps. Would suggest steering clear of any mucoff like cleaners and also the pressure washer.

Rule No.1 for me is, if there's a weird noise or you can feel movement, then find it ASAP. Bolts wise, I check my bolts and bearings every couple of months. Probably 7/10 rides I go on are wet, so it's best to keep an eye on bearings. I have a fairly cheap x-tools torque wrench, seems to do the trick fine.

Good news that you got it all sorted in the end. I always get the impression that a Geometron would be a good, long term bike to own.

The frame was second hand and after 3years I’m up to the full new price but no warranty.

Nicolai warranty was always 5 years and transferrable to new owners (even if you've not got the sale invoice they can check when it was made).

I'm surprised about the dropout issue - the number of bolts on there has always suggested a lot of redundancy there (and I've never had one of those come loose in many many years riding them).

In terms of maintenance it's giving the bike a decent clean (rather than just a hose down) fairly regularly is the best way to spot stuff and always track down anything that seems or sounds odd ASAP. I messed up the main pivot on mine because I was blaming the movement in the back wheel on the Mavic wheel bearings (and the main pivot was behind the chainring and chain guide so not as easy to check by hand). the rest of the pivots it just run my hand over when I'm oiling the chain.

been using this stuff for the last few years on the racecar & bikes, makes it dead easy to see if anything has shifted after your initial check over

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dykem-Cross-Check-Tamper-Proof-Torque-Seal-Mark-Marker-Paste-for-Nuts-Bolts/382242917400?hash=item58ff740c18:g:YPkAAOSw225db5HQ