[Closed] British Enduro Series 2016 - Dates announced!

kimbers - Member

And TMo did start out racing UKGEs

Nah, she was in it with the bricks in the UK and had done some abroad too back before anyone was really doing it here.

Im not sure about the EWS point as its different to DH because anyone can enter an EWS event. For example I am a middle to back of the field master but I have raced three EWS races in the last two years.
If you look at EWS riders like Greg Callaghan or Jamie Nicoll, the reason why they got pro deals is because they saved their cash over the winter while training and lived in their van in europe for an EWS season and got the results in the races. To be able to do that you probably have to ignore your national series anyway because it would be too expensive to keep coming home.

Im sure the two series will be ok once they don't have date clashes and use different names. I think they will have different audiences.
Regarding the numbers issue - that might be the case at UKGE but lots of other races/series sell out pretty fast.

I can understand the uneasiness about the BDS guys jumping in and imposing a national series when they've had very little previous involvement in the discipline.

But if the UK federation doesn't feel ready to step into the breach with a truly credible series then it's hard to complain.

Is it just gonna be a case of natural selection?

BC would add very little I think. The reason BDS exists (not to belittle the hard work of the team) is because if you want to race WC then you have to have National points, and BDS is that access route. Teams & top level riders support BDS because of this, those top riders make attractive races, which attract middle riders etc... its a trickle down effect.

Enduro doesn't have that. Theres no feeder series for EWS (although that would probably be a good thing) you just pay and play. At least with UKGE we had a defacto UK series - it worked out fine as it was the biggest, one of the oldest, and probably the best distributed around the country. Everyone just kind of agreed it was our national series. If we end up with two series of similar scale then its more likely no-one will be realistically able to call themselves national champ, as opposed to having 2.

My thoughts are that while we need a series across the whole country, we don't necessarily need a "National Series". Look at Superenduro - yes they have just had a year out, but I had a very interesting chat with Enrico at Eurobike and I think we'll see something in 2016 from what he told me. Superenduro was never a "National Series" - it was an umbrella organisation that worked with local event organisers, leveraged the tourism money and big headline sponsors and produced high quality media content/video etc to keep exposure high for sponsors and teams, and so ensure their commitment.

I reckon we need something like that over here - in years of racing, I've always felt we almost apologise to local areas for the "inconvenience" of bringing hundreds of riders to an area, rather than selling them the dream of all the extra money to their campsites, pubs, farm shops etc etc etc. Essentially a charismatic frontman who can sell the value and so create excitement all round.

Hope this all settles itself down soon!

My thoughts are that while we need a series across the whole country, we don't necessarily need a "National Series". Look at Superenduro - yes they have just had a year out, but I had a very interesting chat with Enrico at Eurobike and I think we'll see something in 2016 from what he told me. Superenduro was never a "National Series" - it was an umbrella organisation that worked with local event organisers, leveraged the tourism money and big headline sponsors and produced high quality media content/video etc to keep exposure high for sponsors and teams, and so ensure their commitment.

I reckon we need something like that over here - in years of racing, I've always felt we almost apologise to local areas for the "inconvenience" of bringing hundreds of riders to an area, rather than selling them the dream of all the extra money to their campsites, pubs, farm shops etc etc etc. Essentially a charismatic frontman who can sell the value and so create excitement all round.

BTW Steve said on more that one occasion that UKGE wasn't 'the National series'

Or frontwoman - are you wearing some of those misogynist socks there ?

I offered you the job, you refused!

Where MTB Enduro and our British Enduro Series Stand.

We are not involved with Si, BDS or thankfully BC.

The series is supported by Marin plus a growing number of other sponsors, I will releasing this news out over the next week or so.

We started looking at running a national series this year, and would have run with or against the UKGE crew.

We have published dates and we have venues sorted, we will release the venues when we release the full website on the 9th October, if we can publish the site before that then we will.

The venues are fresh and we will have proper infrastructure in place to make our series worthy of a national series. We also have the backing from great sponsors who are investing into the series.

As some of you are aware I am happy to push the boundaries with technical tracks, and this will continue through next year, and we will also have some more pedally tracks so that we can find the best all round rider for 2016. I feel that enduro is a test of fitness and skill, our series will bring that out in the winner.

The format isn’t changing from the Mondraker Enduro Series as it worked so well. We need to explain the one day or two day format better, and we will get resolved on the new website that is due to be released on the 9th October. We will not have timed transition times or seeded start times, without these the races have a more ride with your mates feel. Personally I feel this is important. We all want to have fun and ride with our mates with a fair bit of banter thrown in. The feedback from the riders this year totally supports this format.

As for the overall result, we have seven rounds in 2016. We are going to allow one round to be dropped from the series – whether that be the riders worse result or one they cannot attend due to injury or other commitments and so on. So basically your 6 best rounds out of 7 count.

I can’t stress this enough though. IF THE RIDERS HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE SERIES THEN PLEASE SHARE WITH US – THE SERIES IS YOURS AS MUCH AS OURS. We want the riders to feel that this is their event series so please talk to us.

So finally we are trying to deliver what we feel the riders want from a British National Series #BES2016 and, importantly, a fun weekend/season of riding. We are going to deliver a non-elitist series for you the riders. Hopefully we have come across the right way and we will attract more riders into our sport of Enduro

Feel like I am jumping into a lions den!

Do the misogynist socks come free with the leather pants and cowboy boots?

As an extra we are fully behind the Enduro Federation that the Enduro Event organisers started. Steve Parr was a main driving force of this and I hope that I is still going to be involved.

We believe that the Federation would be a better voice for the sport of MTB Enduro compared with BC.

Real cowboys don't wear no sissy-arse socks Steven !

Is an arse sock something for Enduro Virgins so they don't leave unwanted nasties for the riders behind them?

I guess that would explain why they only give you one.

Enduro is evolving and maybe moving away from a large scale series within the UK, the era of quality regionals(WGES PMBA SeS) and one off big events(TweedLove or ArdRock) work well for riders and racers. On there pockets and time invested traveling to a local or making a long weekend at King&Queen or Ard'Rock.

FeD is a non starter as you need non race promoters running it, don't police yourself you may lose sight of your goals as your pockets get heavy.

Bottom line too many Enduro based races in UK diluting the field

Get a room you two.

Also, Midwales series sounds like exactly what I'd hope a series to be, personally... Also, I don't know if it's a great idea to have two parallel events but if they have different feel and appeal maybe it's a goer- and with a drive towards new venues, simpler formats, no unneccesary bollocks this feels like very different terrain from UKGE. Some people might see it as a step back... Well actually, so do I, a step back to before the wheels started to come off.

Best of luck fellers. Looking forward to seeing more detail of what Si's planning too.

FeD is a non starter as you need non race promoters running it, don't police yourself you may lose sight of your goals as your pockets get heavy.

Sorry Dad !

There's certainly plenty of choice for next year!

Cheers midwales, series sounds good, though I personally think qualifying/seeding makes racing a bit easier as youre less likely to have hold ups on stages

I think things to get right are timing and communication, I definitely like the sound of challenging techy tracks !
What will the deal be with categories? I'm assuming elites will be separate, especially without seeding?

Will have to see what Si comes up with but I think this bit of promo, from the BDS is a brilliant idea, well executed!
http://m.pinkbike.com/news/retrospective-british-downhill-legends-2015.html

Things are so much simpler in Scotland lol

Stating the bleeding obvious, it would be in everyone's best interests if there weren't two series called the same thing. Any resolution to the naming issue on the horizon?

We will not have timed transition times or seeded start times, without these the races have a more ride with your mates feel. Personally I feel this is important. We all want to have fun and ride with our mates with a fair bit of banter thrown in. The feedback from the riders this year totally supports this format.

Personally I don't agree that a 'national' series should be run this way. There are plenty of 'regional' events for the 'ride with your mates' crowd.

I think UKGE had the format pretty much dialed. The only thing I would change is that your seeding time doesn't count for the overall race time, but you get points for seeding that count towards the series. This way your race weekend isn't ruined by a mechanical/crash, which is a real downer Saturday night.

One of the reasons I loved UKGE was not just riding with my mates, but [b]making new ones[/b]. Riders you qualify near at each race that you might not get to know as well otherwise. UKGE had both, you practice with your mates on Saturday, and then get into race mode on Sunday. I've just come back from the PMBA and one of the things I struggled with was getting into the right mindset, am I racing or just pottering about in the woods? Turns out I was crashing, anyways...

Seeding and start times also spreads out the racers. I spent a lot of time queuing for stages on Sunday and it's also pot luck as to who you have in front of you. I want to be going into a stage thinking about my lines, not about where I might catch the guy in front, or get caught by the fast lad behind. Either way, both the passer and person being passed lose out.

A national series needs to be competitive, and I think seeding and start times gives you that with less frustration. Just keep the qualifying as points like DH.

Just my two-penneth.

I'm with YorkshireRipper on this one, UKGE had it pretty much right. Its a very sociable thing, sticking with your mates probably makes it less social not more so. I like the idea of points for seeding too. It was always such a PITA when you get a crap seeding which wiped out your race hopes. Being mis-seeded is bad enough without carrying the time penalty too.

totally agree with yorksripper

im guessing that Si Patttons version will be a bit more race than ride

really enjoy getting to know the riders around you, sometimes you qualify with mates, sometimes not, its always a laugh!

The Irish series does not have a seeding run and it works really well. They did start to allow the top ten in each cat start off earlier but there are no set stage start times.
Everyone does have a time that they leave the start arena though so not everyone is leaving at the same time so the big queues don't happen at the start of stages.
You still catch/get caught even with the seeding run depending on the type of stage it is e.g if seeding is pedally and the other stages are more technical or vice versa. I have done other races in europe and they didnt have seeding runs either - actually I think UKGE is the only race I have done that has a seeding run.

I have done other races in europe and they didnt have seeding runs either - actually I think UKGE is the only race I have done that has a seeding run.

megavalanche certainly does, not done any other non-uk races

Thats qualification for the race too though and its a one run thing rather than multi stage.
I don't really have an issue with seeding other than it favours the guys you arrive on the Friday and practice unoffically (but banning unofficial practice would also achieve that).
I have only practiced on a Friday at grizedale because its such a long drive for me and I was shocked that pretty much everyone was shuttling in their vans between stages.

YorkshireRipper +1 again.

I met a right good bunch of people over the last couple of years 'racing' UKGE, mainly due to the way its set up. Always seem to be the same faces around you in the transitions, and plenty time to ride with your mates too.

a few people were shuttling at grizedale, the majority were riding round!

benpinnick - Member

sticking with your mates probably makes it less social not more so.

You don't have to, you know.

Can't see how you'd fit seeding in without making it a two day event (since you'd need a practice loop also on a one-dayer).

Does everyone feel a "national series" should be a compulsory two day event?

midwales - are you aiming for your series to be the pinnacle national one?

a few people were shuttling at grizedale, the majority were riding round!

Maybe it was just the time I arrived and rode around but I felt like I was the only guy actually riding the full course. Pretty much everyone else I met was shuttling at least part of the course. I was genuinely shocked at what I saw.

I guess it is beside the point anyway but my advice to any new organisers would be to have no grey area around practice like UKGE do (i.e. its unofficial but allowed). If practising on Friday is ok, then make it official practice (I would still arrive friday night and practice Saturday for most races).

I liked the seeding at UKGE and would be happy to see that replicated but the red kites this year were between 8 and 11 stages over 2 days of racing. I have not done a red kite but that sound pretty cool to me.

midwales- I know it will differ venue to venue but is your plan for the #BES2016/MBES 10ish stages over 2 day?

friday practice is a big advantage, for those that can do it

i like it as its an extra days riding and that part is usually done with your mates

i believe mbes will be 1 or 2 day up to the rider?

i believe mbes will be 1 or 2 day up to the rider?

+1 yorkshireripper

Seeding adds a extra edge, would be good if a series went same way but as previous post split points earned between seeding and overall result.

Mini Enduro used a self seeding system last year. Rank yourself 1-5 (1 = fastest 5 = slowest).

If you assume 80% of the field are going to have ridden at least one enduro before then they should be able to reasonably predict their number. If the organizers can give an idea of stages lengths (Mike Marsden has done this with the Welsh Enduros) then this would also help.

Seeding is great, but needs the event to be 2 days really.

Paddyb
"I guess it is beside the point anyway but my advice to any new organisers would be to have no grey area around practice like UKGE do (i.e. its unofficial but allowed). If practising on Friday is ok, then make it official practice"

"Unofficial" practising is prob due to cost!
If it is Official they would need to put on marshals & first aid out on course. All adds to cost, (and enrty fees) And getting enough people to cover the whole course!

If people are lucky/planning a long weekend away and like to get in extra riding they can do.
And "unofficial" practising is done at you own risk etc, so no diff than riding at trail centres etc. to be fair it prob more safe than riding on your own at a trail centre as the prob more riders on course!
99% of riders will look out for each other.

I guess the issue for me really is that if its unofficial then the rules don't apply.

that could be a easy fix, have in the rules no uplifts/shuttles vehicles on course over the 3 days of the event.

paddyb - Member

I guess the issue for me really is that if its unofficial then the rules don't apply.

Not really- it can be official but unmarshalled. Like, SES allows practicing on the saturday after the marshall cover stops. It's still part of the official practice, you just know that you don't have your hands held. The rules do still apply though so if you saw anything objectionable you can always report riders. (yes I have grassed people!)

Shuttling can be fairly reasonable- like, at the scottish nats, shuttling by road between inners and gt on practice day was specifically allowed because it only removed the big transitions, there wasn't much reason to force people round the big loop. But shuttling to stages can be pretty obnoxious. I think it's something that mostly self-regulates since it's not often practical to actually get to a stage start but sometimes it needs extra attention.

I guess it was like EWS where it said in the rules that shuttling was allowed on the main road for practice so then its fair game.
To be fair grizedale is probably the only round where shuttling would be possible but I havent been at any other venue on a friday.

My pet hate in practice is the amount pushing up tracks or standing on the edge or even sessioning sections for 2days pre race.

In a ideal world I would have a restricted practice giving the racing field chance to ride the loop and check content, followed by 2stages which would account towards your seeding/overall followed by 4+stages next day.
Nice balanced weekend controlling practice, giving you chance to ride with mates then into a seeded stages the following day.

I'm in two minds about unofficial practice...on one hand, being able to make more of a weekend of it and get an extra day of riding the trails in is great, particularly if you've travelled a long way...on the other hand, it favours people who can get there on a Friday and leaves those who have to travel far and can't get the time off work at more of a disadvantage.

Living in Cornwall means getting to 3 of the UKGE rounds (Grizedale, Hamsterly and Ae) has been an all day drive up on the Friday so Saturday's been my only chance to recce the stages. Hamsterley was a short loop so I could practice most stages at least once but Ae was a big loop, so I rode each stage just the once and missed practicing Stage 5 (although I had walked it) due to time and to save some energy for seeding and the next day. I messed up big time on Stage 4, completely missing a diversion sign and headed down Stage 1 (!) - if I'd had time to practice Stage 4 more than once then I might not have made such a silly and costly mistake.

IMHO, in the name of fairness to all riders, there should be no unofficial practice and just one session for all - but I appreciate that once the course is marked out, it's difficult to stop people riding unless there are marshalls everywhere, which is a logistical problem and extra expense for organisers...so I'm not sure what can be done!

endurofactory - Member

My pet hate in practice is the amount pushing up tracks or standing on the edge or even sessioning sections for 2days pre race.

It's a key part of the EWS experience, this- Fabian Barel staring intently at an apparently completely uninteresting bit of trail. What does he see? Is he actually asleep? Thinking about boobs?

wideopenmag have picked up the story.
http://wideopenmag.co.uk/2015/09/british-enduro-series-2016

what makes them offical?

poah - Member

what makes them offical?

poah - Member
what makes them offical?

why does it matter?

why does it matter?

oooo defensive PR guy - it doesn't really matter but they do seem to bill themselves as the offical UK enduro series like the UKGE did.

If you were aiming on completing the whole series and to be crowned National Champ, then I would think it would matter.
For the likes of me, its just a farce but at the end of the day, means more options and less temptation/disruption trying to reach other ends of the country to race 🙂

having two means there is likely to be two races you can enter locally. I've not got the time nor money to galavant around the UK but if two races are local it gives a chance to choose one or do both. can only be a good thing for a lot of people.

There is the potential to enter 7-8 high end enduros locally with these two added to the calander

Unless your top ten finisher, then it doesn't matter- you've got 2 potentially good national series to choose from!

And to do a bit of defensive PR I don't think UKGE ever billed themselves as 'official'. They were the defacto national series as they were the only one that covered the whole of the UK, that they also happened to be the best, that packed in the longest routes, most professional set up, best mix of trails, attracted the top teams and racers and most amount of riding time of any series in the UK might also have been a factor 🙂

There is the potential to enter 7-8 high end enduros locally with these two added to the calander

Sounds like the makings of a local series without all the organising work. Tot up the results from all the local enduros over the season, apply points system for each one and viola you can crown a local champion at the end of it.

superfli - Member

If you were aiming on completing the whole series and to be crowned National Champ, then I would think it would matter.

Mystic Northwind predicts- the one with the glossiest sheen, highest price, most familiar venues and most embuggeration gets accepted as the righteous Real Nationals. And most people will ride the other one.

This is a good interview with one of the protagonists...
http://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-interview-neil-delafield-on-his-2016-british-enduro-series/

[url= http://www.mtb-enduro.co.uk/#!round-1---mid-wales/c1hke ]Round 1 will be at Brechfa[/url]

Anyone whos done one of Neil's events before kind enough to explain how 3 stages on sat and 3 on sunday makes a 10 stage 2 day race?

Ta!

i think they repeat 2 stages each day?

tom and aidan have done them

wtf is Brecfa?

Anyone whos done one of Neil's events before kind enough to explain how 3 stages on sat and 3 on sunday makes a 10 stage 2 day race?

That's is massively confusing, Guess:

Sat:

S1
S2
S3

Sun:

S1
S2
S3
S4
S5
S6
S1

brechfa is a trail centre, further west and up round the edge a bit from Afan

trails are goof fun, though its been a while

its 7 stages day1

10 stages day 2

they should get that typo sorted then!

kimbers - Member

brechfa is a trail centre, further west and up round the edge a bit from Afan

trails are goof fun, though its been a while

its 7 stages day1

10 stages day 2

Still confused... 🙁

I've ridden a lot of the off piste stuff round there with Jay from Mudtrek - it's bloody good, lots of steep, off camber rooty and rocky madness. As Jay's helping with that round I reckon he'll be hunting out some choice runs 🙂

Sorry, 5 pages in and I'm still confused.

Quick questions:

1. Who decides the national champion in the absence of that country's governing body?
2. Has anyone dropped in the 'I am Spartacus' gag yet?

Which one is the Judean People's Front?

and 10 stages in one day? That is one massive day out!

. Who decides the national champion in the absence of that country's governing body?

Wouldn't worry about it, just know that there's a shit tonne of great races to do next year!

We have never had an enduro national champion so why do we need on next year GavinB?

Well, now we could have two. Do they have a race off at the end of the season, to see who the supreme champion is?

Without BC or some sort of enduro federation there will be no national campion. They will just be winners of the series they have entered in.

The reason British Cycling are not involved in Enduro is simply because of lack of officials to do the thing justice and therefore keep the risks under any sort of meaningful control. It is not because "they" don't want to support it. Overall there are too few Downhill qualified commissaires and there are waaaay too few to cover Enduros where each section really needs an official on it.

The reality for all cycling is they are getting spanked over insurance cover (i.e. something of an exponential rise in premiums due to the number of hefty claims) and are therefore having to tighten up on procedures.

Despite imaginations running wild about resources and staffing, the reality is that the vast majority of people actually doing things with a BC hat on are volunteers from within the discipline which they are officiating at. A lack of volunteers equals a lack of officials. A lack of officials equals a lack of racing. Simple really.

The reality for all cycling is they are getting spanked over insurance cover (i.e. something of an exponential rise in premiums due to the number of hefty claims) and are therefore having to tighten up on procedures.

Symptomatic of people today who buy a mountain bike to ride at mach10 down an Enduro stage (of their own free will) and then run crying to mummy when it goes wrong for them....only in this case 'mummy' is a vulture-like no win/no fee solicitor who will try and take BC, the organisers and whoever else they can blame instead of the numpty riding the bike who ran out of talent.

spectator safety possibly weighs heavily in the insurance costs/conditions...

and then run crying to mummy

Take your point, but actually its not like that. What actually happens is rider stacks....major injury necessitating life long care occurs..... person receiving bill for life long care seeks to mitigate their loss by going after anyone and everyone who might be culpable...... Persons covering said events bottoms begin to squeak..... everything gets tightened up.

Generally speaking the person who is injured or killed has no input whatsoever into what happens afterwards. Sadly, there is no such concept as "at your own risk" in English Law, so you cannot contract out of your rights, so this is the way its going to be and it always was the case that it would. Best idea is to run things properly, and if we want to do this stuff, take our turn at standing up and volunteering.

spectator safety possibly weighs heavily in the insurance-costs...

Best idea is to run things properly..........

Thinking that you need a Commissaire at the start and finish of each stage is the DH mindset that has dogged Enduro in the UK since the start. (See also: two day events, seeding runs, millionths of a second timing systems, full face helmets, letting people sleep in their vans at the race and bring their dogs with them, and finishing in an "arena".)

IMPO the whole "not enough Commissaires" was the excuse, not the reason.

Go on then list all the Downhill comms you know....