[Closed] Bristol plans development of the Timberland Trail etc

I too now feel a bit like this thread is wasting my time.

On a more positive note, the tender for the trail build is being awarded next week, and work will begin really soon after.

No, that's spot-on. It wasn't done for that reason, but I reckon in the long term a more open canopy will benefit the trail there.

Indeed, I actually quite like the open feeling of 50 acre now.

@longwayhome

[quote=longwayhome]the majority seem to be from local clubs and groups (because they are easy to contact)

They contacted local clubs because they represent groups of riders that use the trails frequently, many of them for a long time, and have an interest in maintaining the trails. These clubs and groups exist partly to bring riders together and give them a collective voice precisely in situations like this.

I suppose they could have run a 6 month public consultation, taking in the opinions of mtb'ers, walkers, runners, pony clubs and everyone else that uses AC/LW, but that probably would have used up the whole budget before anyone even started to dig.

[quote=longwayhome]have a interest in making the trails all weather at any price.

Now you're just making stuff up. If you're not affiliated to any of the local clubs, i'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion. BMBC certainly is not in favour of an "all weather at any price" trail. On the contrary we'd like to see the character of the trails remain as intact as possible, but at the same time recognise that some compromises are required to create a trail that doesn't turn to shit after 30 minutes of drizzle.

As the saying goes, you can't please all of the people all of the time. I'm not convinced that the 50-acre wood trails dry out quicker these days. An inevitable consequence of some of the trails disappearing may be that the remaining trails are used more, and hence require more maintenance? I'm sure with the fullness of time though that more offshoots from the main runs will be established.

Change is not made without inconvenience, even from worse to better - Samuel Johnson.

Also: longwayhome et al. You don't own the trails, you're willfully ignorant of local MTB issues. Suck it up.

Can I just mention that cutting down trees and having less canopy doesn't give you drier trails at all times of year. Sure, exposing the ground to wind and sun helps, but during growing season big trees have a big thirst - bigger than Thirst Pockets and elephants put together.

ps - Hi Bristolians! I miss you guys 🙁

d1rty -

Now you're just making stuff up. If you're not affiliated to any of the local clubs, i'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion

Simply by reading the posts on this thread.

Firstly Bristol Trails Group. Now please don't make me spend ages cutting and pasting quotes, but I think you'll agree with me that MrAgreeable and others have made it abundantly clear that the Bristol Trails Group are fed up with continually fixing the existing trails and for this reason would like professionally built, all weather trails. They'd like technical interest but would really, really like not to have to mend them all the time.

I can understand this. It's a thankless task, though I here publicly acknowledge and thank them for their hard work.

Now onto the mountain biking clubs. Back on the first page we have

flashes - Member
I'm in 2 minds, I don't like gravelled paths but riding in Leigh Woods Tuesday night meant sticking to the fire roads, as the trails are pure mud, the AC trail is even worse, at least I would be able to ride all year round and Monday Cheesy rides could support normal numbers...

In other words flashes would really like to be able to ride the trails all year round come rain or shine, sometimes in a large group. Now I am making a bit of a supposition here, but I suggest that this is the prevailing attitude in all the clubs as they all seem to promote regular rides in AC/LW/FAW. I can understand why clubs like regular events and AC/LW/FAW is an easy option.

So, when did Bristol Mountain Bike Club last head out to AC/LW/FAW?

Fianlly you say

BMBC certainly is not in favour of an "all weather at any price" trail. On the contrary we'd like to see the character of the trails remain as intact as possible, but at the same time recognise that some compromises are required to create a trail that doesn't turn to shit after 30 minutes of drizzle.

So you are placing wet-weather capability above technical interest then? By "at any price" I didn't mean sell you children or lose a kidney, from the first post we've been talking about technical interest.

Now I am making a bit of a supposition here, but I suggest that this is the prevailing attitude in all the clubs

Quite a leap of faith there fella. Is it because the clubs take a responsible stance in the viability and future of the trails? Perhaps the clubs are all mincers who can't handle a steep kerb. You really do keep digging don't you?

This thread has given me untold amusement. I do love the way to some folk an eroded trail is "technical" and building a trail to be sustainable means it can no longer be "techical"

It is perfectly possible to build a trail that is sustainable in all weathers and still has technical interest.

Well done on getting the funding. It looks really promising. I'm sure Architrail will do a great job.

Is it because the clubs take a responsible stance in the viability and future of the trails?

They have a stance with regards to running rides there on a year-round basis.

Perhaps the clubs are all mincers who can't handle a steep kerb

Sorry, you've lost me there, where did this come into the thread? Are you ranting about things I didn't say again?

You really do keep digging don't you?

Again, you've lost me. I thought I was discussing.

This thread has given me untold amusement

I'm sure it's going to get even more amusing with you involved.

It is perfectly possible to build a trail that is sustainable in all weathers and still has technical interest.

But the whole point is that it's going to be less interesting than it is at the moment.

You're north of the border aren't you? Have you been to Ashton Court much?

Longwayhome, who told you the new trails will be less interesting than they are at the moment???

Have some faith. It's going to be an awesome set of trails once it's finished.

But the whole point is that it's going to be less interesting than it is at the moment.

Flat, smooth paths can be entertaining too. I refer to the trail known as Hawthornes. Once that had bedded down a bit and ridden in the downhill direction, it was (maybe still is) an absolute hoot. Twisty, fast, loose under wheel and with the trees in very close proximity. No mud, no roots - some more like that would be cool.

I'm happy with the thought of being able to ride all year around without doing damage. I don't help maintain, so I do try and avoid shagged trails. And I'm hoping it'll remain interesting. I'm an optimist and what ever happens it is fab to be able to ride 20 minutes from my house, (pretty well in the middle of a city) and ride off road.

Too Tall, have you banged your head on a door frame or something...

longwayhome - Member
But the whole point is that it's going to be less interesting than it is at the moment.

Really? And you know this how?

TandemJeremy - Member
It is perfectly possible to build a trail that is sustainable in all weathers and still has technical interest.

Quite.

I did a mimble round the trails today with the designers, the project manager and some journos who are running a feature on the project next month. Some interesting points came out of this:

1. As I suspected, there's going to be substantially more singletrack in the new trail than the old one. All the old muddy hacks along the edges of fields will go.

2. The trail corridor includes some bits of the estate that were previously off limits.

3. Contrary to what I posted above, the bashy downhill by the side of New Barn Wood is going to make its way into the trail - the new downhill section is being built before it and will feed into it.

4. Tedious internet debates suck logs

(I made the last one up, but it's undeniably true)

Sounds good Ant 🙂

Where's New Barn Wood?

Sounds good..........

bit between the end of upper quarry and the arena.

So, when did Bristol Mountain Bike Club last head out to AC/LW/FAW?

Wraxle? Where the flip is Wraxle?

wraxle pist just on the edge of cleavdon rd that runs up back of ac at the lights junction pass it on way to plantation(ashton hill) from faw-ac top entrances

edit - woodland on junction of beggerbush lane and b3128 cleavdon rd there is a small entrance on the right coming from ac with a small sign and wooden gate/blockage thing

Perhaps Wraxall?

yeah may have the spelling slightley out lol

thanks tootall.

Wraxall peice in Failand on the corner of Beggar bush lane and clevedon road. 😉

indeed

just watch the rabbit/badger holes 😆

I think you'll agree with me that MrAgreeable and others have made it abundantly clear that the Bristol Trails Group are fed up with continually fixing the existing trails and for this reason would like professionally built, all weather trails. They'd like technical interest but would really, really like not to have to mend them all the time.

Well, the other option we had was to stop mending them ourselves and start looking for some money to build a handmade technical trail. But I doubt anyone would be willing to fund the creation of a "red" grade trail in a busy country park, on mostly flat terrain, with all sorts of users including complete beginners. The rationale for the new trails is to increase the number of riders, not let the existing ones ride more. I doubt you'd be able to find a contractor willing to build it either - all of them use machinery extensively to get the trails made in a cost and time effective way.

What you'd get then is a rapidly deteriorating trail with mud and slop persisting well into the summer, as was the situation a few years ago, before regular trail maintenance began.

A few people might enjoy these conditions but most would probably give up on the trails and go and find new places to ride, become roadies or take up golf. Events like Bristol Bike Fest would become a thing of the past, the number of cyclists in Bristol would dwindle. It's not unlikely that the trails would end up being closed due to environmental concerns - it's already 15 feet wide in places due to the number of new lines spring up to avoid the mud, rocks and ruts.

...but what about the cafe?

Why are they pulling down technical cafe we already have and replacing it with a sanitized one?

Longwayhome - how long have you been in Bristol? If you're newish then you have a very rose tinted view of the local trails as this last year or so has been great due to the frost and the very long dry spell. If you were around in 2008 /9 then you will have seen the trails at their worst :-(.

If you were here then and still claim to be 'in the dark' around the moves being suggested then shame on you for not getting actively involved and then criticising those that could be bothered to get actively involved

For what it is worth we rode locally at the w/e and every one of my riding buddies welcomes the proposals and believes that a weather proof AC is worth some trade offs (and frankly we don't know what those are yet!!!). In crappy weather we will have something decent to ride and in good we can go and scare ourselves down the gorge runs.

Ant - top work, as always, just remember to personally talk to Longwayhome in the future and to then actively work his proposals for him.

@tandaylor...

When I am not riding round Ashton Court, I am walking round it with my kids or playing golf there with my mates...

Can I say that the Cafe being kicked off site is not at all like the Glentress Hub...

The ladies who work in that cafe are miserable to walkers, golfers bikers and children. I feel like I am really imposing on them tio make me coffee. I am not the only one who gets this vibe. These ladies would surely be happier in another occupation! I say that a sanitised cafe with polite and friendly staff would be a massive improvement for AC.

I wrote to the guys running this operation and here is some of the response...

"I'll forward on your suggestions to the project manager of the cafe - Alberto Palmerio. I'd love to see something like Afan Argoed's cafe (the trail centre near Port Talbot) and I do hope that the MTB community come forwards with more feedback like this."

He also confirmed that bike washing facilities might be available for the site!

Flat, smooth paths can be entertaining too. I refer to the trail known as Hawthornes. Once that had bedded down a bit and ridden in the downhill direction, it was (maybe still is) an absolute hoot. Twisty, fast, loose under wheel and with the trees in very close proximity. No mud, no roots - some more like that would be cool.

Whoo! somone else agrees with me re: Hawthorns.

Re Bristol cycling clubs: it is wrong to say that those consulted were all unequivocally keen on the new trail developments - a great many had exactly the same reservations expressed here regards 'sanitisation' and 'losing old trails', and were either won around, or have come to the understanding that the trails as they are have had their day.

Can someone tell me where this Hawthornes trail is... I wanna go on it!

Basically the Beggar Bush lane section of the TT. You've almost certainly ridden it already.

@charliebigpotato
The existing golf hut cafe women have always been alright to me, ok not to the standard of Glycorrwg but way above the terrible food and service of the original Afan site or Cwmcarn.

The Hawthorns section is the twisty bit through the lower bush like trees (hawthorns). There are clearings in in when you come out into the open with the golf course to one side and Beggar Bush Lane to the other. It's fast twisty fun but suffers more than the rest of the trail from meeting riders coming in the other direction so I often choose the wall trail instead.

Ant and all,
I've read this with interest, I hope the development is a success, I'm sure it will be. Bristol has some great trails, if a few more people had come out to repair them then a state of, eroded but fun rooty stuff might have been possible. Unfortunately from bitter experience winter trail biulding sessions month in and month out were usually Ant and about 4 or 6 others on average, maybe less. Simply not enough. The trals have got wider and wider, straighter and straighter, muddier, rutted, wet in th winter (and summer too often), the tree roots get too exposed and become damaged, the trees suffer. It can't go on. Rowan Sorrel is a respected trail biulder. Personally I enjoy some of his stuff, but actually enjoy 'natural' feeling stuff more than a lot of Rowan's work, but the current trail construction in Bristol can't continue.
Good news Ant. I'm jealous. Wish we had trails and development like this in South London!

@Cheers_drive

Oh - yeah - I know it (thanks for clarifying)... And agree with other comments, it is a nice fast section that contrasts the more - er - technical offerings that AC has to offer. I would say that the whole course runs better in reverse and this Hawthorne section becomes very fast (as per BikeFest race). As for the cafe... well, I've had friendlier service and better food, but can't contrast to many other trail sites... I just think that Bristol can do better than that!

Spot on there Neil. It's very demoralising when you have to fix the same bits of trail over and over again. We do get a lot of people saying lovely things about us, but there comes a point where I'd rather be riding a bike than pushing a barrow.

Rowan Sorrel is a respected trail biulder. Personally I enjoy some of his stuff, but actually enjoy 'natural' feeling stuff more than a lot of Rowan's work

The trail build contract hasn't been awarded yet, but the design and consultation work was actually carried out by Phil Saxena's company [url= http://www.architrail.co.uk/ ]Architrail.[/url] Different chap entirely!

I think that whoever ends up building it, it's going to be a hoot to ride. There are good sections in the current trail but it's such a variable experience (it's going to be poop on a stick at the moment) and as a whole it's a bit lacking.

Phil Saxena, ah I've heard of him. Wonder why I thought it was Rowan, must have got confused. Anyway, I'm sure it will be fun to ride. Keep up the good work Ant.

As promised, we've set up an evening meeting in a city centre pub to discuss the new trails and more.

I've already posted on the forum about it, but in case any subscribers on this thread want to attend, here are the details:

http://www.bristoltrailsgroup.com/events/162-2011trailsmeeting

Did anyone go to this meeting? What was the general feeling on it?

People were there. My man on the ground tells me good things - but not sure whether our 'excluded and unconsulted' cyclist was there. I'll leave Mr A to say how he thought it went.

It's a bit boggy out there, hope the new trails are nice. Hi everyone.

Meeting was fairly low in numbers, but high on ideas - lots of good suggestions for ways to get riders involved with their trails,keep people informed, raise funds and generally keep the good work going.

Phil and Duncan from Architrail came all the way down from Leeds to talk about their plan for Ashton Court, despite having to be in Belfast for 7.00 am the next day, so it's a shame that more people couldn't make it.

Full write-up coming to the site at www.bristoltrailsgroup.com very soon.

Anthony,
can you email stuff like that to me for our club in the future; I don't go on Bristol Trails website anymore.
Cheers.

Mark, send me your current addy and I'll pop you on the mailing list.

Email in profile mate.

You're signed up. Ain't technology great!

Write-up of the meeting here:

http://www.bristoltrailsgroup.com/news/164-bristol-trails-group-2011-non-agm

BUT WAS LONGWAYHOME THERE? Were his views elicited and included? I hope so.

Don't be silly, the meeting wasn't being held in longwayhome's front room.

Well perhaps it should have been. WAS HE NOT CONSULTED ON THE LOCATION OF THE MEETING AS WELL?!?

Sheesh - no wonder he reacts the way he does 🙄 Talk about being out of the pie!

Questions from the thick seats:

1. Are you chaps using irony again?

2. Can you use an " irony emoticon " for thick people?

I dunno about irony, I [i]was[/i] being facetious, I know that much.

Facetious? ( this Lidl dictionary is sh1te )

*pokes Agency_Scum with a stick*

irony is just like steely but with more carbon. You like carbon and steel don't you?

I hear there is a bike jumble tomorrow.

Bike jumble, where?

Well then chaps.

We've had the benefit of the new trails on the quarry section for two weeks now - myself having ridden them more than enough times (Bikefest, twice after work) and at the risk of sounding like a 'I told you so' but:

I told you so.

I think.

My thoughts are this from what I've seen so far:

Positives:

-Seriously well built trails
-Fun, in a pump track way,
- It's clearly going to be all weather
- Not going to wreck bikes/riders with mud all the time
- Getting more people into riding
- More accessible

Negatives:

- It's a bit boring - as I think I commented before, sanitised
- At the moment, from what I can see, it's just the same type of trail all the way around
- Berms and pumpy bits are great fun, but get a bit samey after a while
- Some serious need to educate the twits who STILL think its a bright idea to ride the oncoming way (opposite way) to the proper direction of the trail
- With the trail being faster, so are the riders. And now they're REALLY pinning it which leads to:
- Slower riders getting in the way (I had this yesterday, and I don't really mind, but some people do)
- Faster riders getting arsey or agressive and not being patient
- Families trying out the trails and presenting a problem to experienced arsey/irresponsible riders in various ways
- Sanitised (going on what we've seen
- As a result, the experienced riders will more frequently ride the unofficial trails putting more stress on the local environment and clashing with other Ashton Court users

There are plenty more pros and cons which I discussed with a fellow SingletrackWorld forum user yesterday - whom I took around the new bit for the first time.

I don't want anyone to get me wrong, I'm very grateful for what we have been/are being given - I will ride it happily - incorporating it into my 'loop' of trails that I ride daily, however I'm interested to hear what others have to say about the now developing trails?

I can't decide whether it is a good thing or a bad thing what is developing here - all I know is that it's becoming very santised - and some of the most enjoyable parts of the Ashton Court trails are being wiped from the map which to me is a massive shame 🙁

I'll add: I take on the comments about the meeting - I didn't hear about it - and that's nobodies fault really, and so I guess I can't complain there. It's a fair point whoever pointed that out.

A lot is being discussed about Ashton Court but when is the work at Leigh Woods starting and what do people think the trails will be like there? I have only ridden Ashton Court a few times as I usually ride on the Quantocks but I'm looking forward to the new stuff. I'm planning to wait until its all complete though so I can give my opinion then.

I like what they have done with the upper quarry trail, not so keen on the lower quarry trail, but I used to ride that in reverse anyway as it was better that way.

I reckon the singletrack in LW will be fairly sanitised with the odd lump and berm, and a couple of rocky and rooty swoopy sections between rain gullys.

I rarely ride in Ashton court, as I prefer Leigh woods, but headed over there last week and I though it was a bit dull to tell the truth.

Ideal track for a Hybrid, as you don't need suspension, or knobbly tyres to ride it.

I was wondering if it was supposed to be a Green trail, and then Blues and Reds would appear in 50 Acre/Leigh woods, I doubt it, but we can live in hope.

Mind you not sure how long it will last by the amount of pillocks skidding all the way down it.

I really, really hope they don't do the same to Leigh woods, as bar the big cycle clubs straight lining the hard bits (re: the knicker trail, who removed the hard cornered after the wall drop!!!!!!, or the alternative route down from the picnic bench avoiding the roots) its got some fairly decent riding.

I enjoy the new trails and from my ride a couple of nights ago where I rode the quarry trails a few times then went to BBL, it was thrown into sharp contrast just how much better the new trails cope with rain - I was dry/clean after the quarry, filthy after BBL.

So I think the new trails are good from an all weather, all year round perspective and I think that come winter we'll be much happier.

But... I think they have definitely lost the essence of what they were since they're basically narrowed BMX tracks and I can't help but feel that they may become quite samey after a bit. A bit like eating McDonalds all the time (and I'll ignore the sanctimonious - I enjoy a big mac a couple of times a year) - good for a quick hit but you'd feel supersized and bored of it soon enough. I guess that we will still have 50 acre and the parts of LW that don't get built to play with when the conditions are good (so that'll be a week or two a year 🙂 ) but I can't help but feel that it's been a bit of a missed opportunity.

I do wonder if the plans are for all the trails to basically be the same as quarry - it certainly looks like it judging by the trails currently being worked on (over the fence from the grassy field and New Barn woods) which would be a shame - I was expecting it to be a bit more, say, Afan-like which has some rocky/rooty sections along with the smoother stuff that we're seeing.

Mind, as a positive, with them being so smooth, they'll be fun on a CX bike I reckon... 🙂

Agreed on all points above. However, as I mentioned - it will have a negative effect on the unofficial trails in Leigh Woods in that they'll more than likely become more and more used.

And I know from riding them the other day after all the rain that although they drain better, they're awful in places to ride due to the thin layer of topsoil meaning its a skid pan.

Can anyone with any knowledge of the plans comment on the difficulty and continuity of the Ashton Court trails - will they be the same as what has been developed so far?

Additionally, the bikes shops will be loving this as all of those guys who brought the 'perfect' Ashton Court bike will now be looking to find that perfect bike for the smoother trails.

A short travel hardtail with semi slicks is all you need now - whether thats a good or a bad thing is subject to debate...

Leave Leigh Woods alone please. Do what you like to Ashton Court and 50-acre Wood, but please leave Leigh Woods as it is.

Actually I disagree on LW - the vast majority of riders stick to the obvious trail IME so new trails will mean fewer riders onto the less well known stuff.

I don't know if that will be the case, when there is a motorway running through the woods, as people tend to follow tyre tracks.

Leigh Woods is nice, as it seem to attract riders who are happy getting lost, rather than following arrows.

On another note, if they are going to be build more trails in LW, are they going to use any of the harvested timber?

I have of late,—but wherefore I know not,—lost all my gnar, forgone all custom of lugging supertacky minions uphill; and indeed, it goes so heavily with my disposition - that goodly norco frame, the death barge, seems to me a sterile lunk; this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire,—why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours into which I am no longer inclined to jump. What a piece of work is man on a rigid singular swift! How noble in reason! how infinite in faculties! in form and moving, how express and admirable! in action how like a fat drunk angel! in apprehension, how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust?

Well, that disclaimer out of the way, actually it's pretty bloody good. Yes it's different, yes it's brand new so hasn't yet got much character, but it [i]will[/i] erode, everything does, it [i]will[/i] eventually get roots growing through it, because the roots you've been riding near to death will hopefully regrow, people [i]will[/i] miss corners and odd lines will evolve and it [i]will[/i] actually be rideable in winter. (Yay!)

On a damp, farily gopping Wednesday night during a 10 minute window there were 8 riders I saw on quarry and another 4 nearby, having recently ridden it. Without this sort of work the only way to keep AC rideable at all is to organise a cull of MTBers. For comparison, in leigh woods there were 0, in t'other bit there were 0, in 50 acre there was 1. Furthermore, in these locations there was approximately 100 of mud. And believe me, I do a lot of standing around "admiring the view"; I'm fat and lazy. Plenty of opportunity to count.

And as for "it's not like it was" well no, but it was even better [i]before[/i] before, pre-timberland, last century, before all you other buggers turned up with your crabon fibre picnics, fancy-schmancy seatposts and modern city-folk ways. Yes I'd prefer a more earthy, rootsy, "natural" trail, but in order to get that I'm going to need all of y'all to bugger off and stop cycling round these here parts. Until you see sense and do just that, I reckon that this is going to be the best option.

And remember, if you really, [i]really[/i] want it lumpier, just take the Welsh Trail Centre approach - armour up, hop on your rig, set gravity droppers to 'mince' and drag that back brake all the way round the sucker! But if you do, just try and remember why there's hub deep puddles come November.

The remainder of the trail in Ashton Court will almost certainly be similar to the Quarry Trail. There are going to be more optional sections added in like the rock drop-offs in the Upper Quarry Trail - there are plans for more jumpy stuff and drops along the Quarry Trails too, they just didn't have time to build them before the Bike Fest. It's all very smooth at the moment (which I think translates to it being frickin' ace to ride, suspension or no) but it will inevitably get rougher as it wears in.

The reason the Leigh Woods trail doesn't drop down to the bottom isn't because it's family friendly (Ride the Brechfa Blue trail if you don't think "all abilities" trails have climbs) It's because putting a built trail down the side of the gorge isn't feasible from an environmental point of view. It's one of the most important areas for nature in the region so building an official trail there using machinery is out. Even some of the trail they've got permission for is going to be built entirely by hand.

The trail follows the existing Ho Chi Minh loop (minus the Ridge) which I think is a sensible move - it's clearly a popular route (people have kept on riding it despite it degrading so badly) and putting in a new trail away from it would effectively double the damage to the woodland. It loops back on itself so the unofficial but established trails are going to be well off most riders' radar.

No North Shore I'm afraid as it's a pain to build and maintain. Maintenance is still going to be carried out by volunteers (i.e. muggins here) but it's going to be much easier in the past, plus we will hopefully have revenue streams (e.g. a cut of the bikewash) rather than having to chug people at Bikefest.

If you want to keep up to date, or ask questions, the best sources of info are the designers:

or @architrail on Twitter. I'm on bristoltrailsgroup@gmail.com, FB and Twitter if you want to ask me questions but to be honest you're probably better off getting it from the horse.

I can't help but feel that it's been a bit of a missed opportunity.

On the contrary, I would imagine Bristol's bike scene is going to go absolutely ballistic off the back of this, which is going to open up far more opportunities than a handful of blokes chucking mud about in the wood. 🙂

Eccles, that is the first and last time I will ever see anyone describe a Norco Death Barge (TM) as "a collection of vapours". Your poetic licence should be revoked and you should have to hand over your badge, your laudanum and your quill.

Chaps, thanks for your posts - they make a lot of sense.

However, I do agree with what you're saying, and I do see that the trail will naturally find its form.

However, is this issue of direction going to handled? I'd hate for the renewed speeds that are being found to take out a young family just getting into riding and end up in the local papers...

I'm more worried about myself than the young family. Almost wiped myself out twice this morning on upper quarry - TBH the speeds you can get once you're a bit more familiar with it (and pumping!) are pretty scary - for me at least - and if you go off line it tends to be a nice soft earthy mound to stop your front wheel dead or a tree to stop you dead...

The new 'New Barn' stuff looks mad too - had a look and I think I might be investing in a BMX - rows of bumps that look like the pump track! Still guess learning new skills keeps things interesting.

Some good points about the trails wearing in and it'll be interesting to see how that goes. I still can't help feeling disappointment at the loss of some of the trails though. Just hope that as I get more familiar with the new ones that that fades.

Agreed Clubber, I've blasted through there and had to 'check' my speed (that tree on the right half way down on the left handed hip is a bit close too).

One thing that is a massive bonus (and one of the reasons why we are moving closer) is that I can now reasonably expect to ride it every morning and evening on my commute and not be ruined by the end of it, and that, for one, is a very very nice feeling.

Therefore I pronounce the new trails 'a good thing' in my book.

Its alright, you can thank me later. hehe.

Thanks to all those whom have worked on the trails - I owe you some pints in the Mall if I ever meet you.

Just rereading my posts they may sounds more negative than I intended. I am actually enjoying the new stuff, it's just that I miss the old stuff (though the conditions just before the old stuff was bulldozed may be tinting them a bit more rosy). Once all of AC and HCM in LW are done that's a significant proportion of the trails in Bristol that were fun (not all of the time admittedly) gone and the old ones that remain tend to hold up even worse so we're lots of the stuff that for me at least gave Bristol trails their own character.

If they **** up the mug trail I will not be amused.

To be fair, that really does need some work. It's proper trashed.

mug trail? Tbh some of these trail names are proper confuddling me...

Mug trail is the trail in LW that has a couple of mugs on it...

Therefore I pronounce the new trails 'a good thing' in my book.

Well strike up the band and instruct the church bells to ring out across Avon and Somerset. 😐