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Thought it worth flagging that, as a counter to some daft buggers who want the lower limits reversed, there's a petition on the city council website to keep them.
Whilst the limit itself is largely irrelevant in a city where traffic crawls a lot of the time, what it has done is legitimised slower modes of travel, and we're seeing loads more kids on bikes in residential areas/more interest in trailer bikes.
Please sign if you like the lower limits.
I'm all for curbing the car culture but having grown up & starting my cycling life in Bristol it takes little/no effort to hit 30mph + on a bike down the many hills in Bristol.
takes little/no effort to hit 30mph + on a bike down the many hills in Bristol.
It takes little effort in a car either. Bikes should stick to the limit too.
Signed it a while ago. Lots of idiots ignoring it but in general people are driving more slowly and it's noticeably nicer when cycling or walking.
[quote=MrOvershoot ]I'm all for curbing the car culture but having grown up & starting my cycling life in Bristol it takes little/no effort to hit 30mph + on a bike down the many hills in Bristol.
Yeah, but speed limits don't apply to bikes (legally, I'm not just being silly)
Where are you seeing these extra kids on bikes?
I drive around Bristol for work through loads of areas and I've not seen these mythical kids.
Also, why are the anti 20 people "daft buggers", everybody is entitled to an opinion?
[quote=flatfish ]Also, why are the anti 20 people "daft buggers", everybody is entitled to an opinion?
What has their entitlement to an opinion got to do with whether or not they're daft? BNP supporters are also entitled to their opinion...
According to one local at Hinton last Wednesday he had received a ticket for 27 in a 20. So it would appear to be enforced when the resources are there.
Where do I sign?
Also, why are the anti 20 people "daft buggers", everybody is entitled to an opinion?
Everybody is entitled to have their (uninformed) opinion challenged.
Where? In the bishopston/horfield area I'm seeing quite a few parents with kids on their own bikes riding with them, mainly on residential streets on the way to school, and a few trailers and box bikes too. This is a change from previous years.
And they're daft because in built up areas lower limits are clearly a progressive policy. The ones I speak to who hate lower limits come across like gun proponents in the USA.
And I can't link but it's under 'Bristol 20mph limit petition' on Google.
Thanks Phiiiil.
Reading the parallel petition to scrap the 20 limits, they cite the money wasted on setting them up. Do they not realise reversing them would cost a pile more money?
no. They are daft buggers.Do they not realise reversing them would cost a pile more money?
All signed up.
There is noticeable courteous driving in the city when we visit, sometimes over courteous. Unfortunately the observance of box junction rules is woeful which causes major problems in the Temple Meads area.
Its not just about the speed limit AIUI. 20mph zones can have more traffic calming installed with fewer restrictions on design, including, say shared use space or signage/street furniture purges. So for that reason it's also useful to maintain a 20mph limit in places even if it's regularly flouted.
Sorry to be the voice of reason but can we not cancel the 20mph limit, sell the roundels to the next city undertaking a similar pointless exercise and throw a few big street parties with the cash?
Don't worry, you aren't 😛Sorry to be the voice of reason
Party pooper.
Wordnumb, your logic is flawed, without the lower speeds street partaying is far too dangerous! Actually, not true, we'd just close them and party anyway - street party capital of the UK dontchaknow.
And no one will buy them we'll use the roundels as party plates.
Or rain hats.
This all seems a bit daft. Under what circumstances would the council ever consider doing a U-turn on the 20mph zones!? Probably none, imo.
8,500 people want this outrageous imposition on the rights of motorists to be reversed. Only 3,500 people want them kept. Is this a democracy or not?
In reality, Its likely that sure of those who signed to scrap them were from outside Bristol, rather than resident in the affected areas, so who cares what they think.
Its not just about the speed limit AIUI. 20mph zones can have more traffic calming installed with fewer restrictions on design, including, say shared use space or signage/street furniture purges. So for that reason it's also useful to maintain a 20mph limit in places even if it's regularly flouted.
One difference I remember is lighting on give way, roundabout, etc signs. That's a lot of wiring and bulbs that don't need upkeep/replacement.
8,500 people want this outrageous imposition on the rights of motorists to be reversed. Only 3,500 people want them kept. Is this a democracy or not?
Democracy and George Ferguson aren't two things I'd normally put in the same sentence.
rights of motorists
What rights?
The ones they think they have wallop.
Still time to sign folks.
Signed.
Anything to reduce the number of RTCs I have to deal with at work.
Although the average speed on an A road on Bristol is apparently 4.25mph (second slowest outside London after Reading).
As a Reading resident I totally agree, the traffic here is terrible, especially with all the morons going shopping between now and Christmas...
Avoiding it a serious business for some, hence I would welcome a 20 limit for my own part of town which is often used as a rat-run at rush hours. I would also like to see them expand the rental bike scheme to cover parts of town where people actually live. The transport mix here is all to cock.
Unfortunately it sounds like any town or city that tries to make changes, like Bristol, gets hit with a tidal wave of indignant clarksonites...
Question: Have the local authority surveyed the local residents about the impact of the limit changes?
Petitions (which anyone can sign) are all well and good, but surely the primary goal is to benefit the local residents, their opinions should carry more weight IMO has that been sought?...
I don't think they have consulted local residents on this, I guess this petition is a proxy for a survey of local support (postcode identifiable).
The residents parking on the other hand, has been subject to numerous consultations.
I live in Montpelier and I am ll for the 20mph speed limit remaining. I've seen an increase in cyclists to my daughters school and see more children on bikes in the morning. This could becincidence but I'd like to think not.
The city is for people and we should encourage any means to get people out of cars. The limit makes it safer for all road users and the chances of serious injuries are significantly reduced due to the lower speed.
We also hae a problem wth pollution, just look at the latest reports for NO2 and with the greatest respect Flatfish you live in the country well away from the Bristol so why you are voting aganst it is beyond me. You journeys take no longer (just look at the avergaes speeds in Bristo) but make them safer for others.
All cities should hae 20 mph limits in my opinion. Cities are for the people not for cars that kill people via pollution and injure other road users.
If Bristol is anything like Manchester the 20 limits have made driving worse not better. All they've done is stick 20 limits and speed humps on the rat runs. The result is even more peoplenow regularlybreak the limit and pay less attention to pedestrians as they swerve around the humps.
In the meantime they've made using the main arterial roads more difficult and congested, part time bus lanes, cycle lanes that put cyclists in dnager and disappear when they are needed most and traffic lights at every minor junction (making the rat runs easier to use at busy times). What they should have done is make the main routes in and out flow more smoothly which would take more cars off the residential streets.
As normal though a few cans of paint and some signage is considered to be infrastructure improvements when they clearly aren't. 20 zones have their place when implememnted properly, when done badly they just make in more normal for the average driver to break the limit.
20mph limits are not a problem or a solution in Bristol, they are just there. A cripplingly bad road network is the actual problem. My commute in the car - 20 miles of which 19 are a roads, takes an hour and a half, the same as if I cycle. On the motorbike it takes 45 minutes.
Also whoever decided the place to put road directions is painting them on the road, I invite them to take a journey at busy times and let me know how much they see of those directions.
They're not meant to be a solution to congestion, they're aimed at making the place nicer for non-motorised users. Including you at the pedestrian end of your journey.
You want to get traffic flowing through quicker, not slow it down.
Not surprised they want to reverse the stupid idea.
There are other ways of sorting out RTC's. Speed doesnt kill, stupidity does.
Larry, you haven't read the thread have you. The limits are to make the place nicer to be for non-motorised users. But while we're on it, what are these other ways of reducing RTCs that also deliver the eased traffic flows you desire?
You want to get traffic flowing through quicker, not slow it down.
Increased top speeds don't lead to increased flow rate, buy reducing maximum speeds can help flow.
Nothing like that luckily. Mostly they've just changed the speed limit but round here the new 'traffic calming' is to close certain roads to cars with planters creating more dead ends. That allows pedestrians and cyclists to pass through and travel on roads that cars use a lot less. Vast improvement.If Bristol is anything like Manchester the 20 limits have made driving worse not better. All they've done is stick 20 limits and speed humps on the rat runs.
Flow when driving seems about the same but it's always been very variable.
Nick that makes sense closing roads off, just sticking the limits at 20 doesn't. It doesn't make the roads safer or nicer places to be, just the opposite. If they made the main roads flow better there would be less traffic on the back roads making nicer to cycle on.
It does round here. The main roads are easier to cross when walking and when cycling I tend be travelling at the same speed as the cars on open roads. Much nicer IMO. It's been a noticable change for the better over the last year.It doesn't make the roads safer or nicer places to be, just the opposite
Far from perfect. Still plenty of idiots out there but I think the people who were doing 40 in a 30 are now doing 30 in a 20. I'll settle for that for now.
Just out of interest, what's it like to cycle in the 20mph areas?
I've not experienced then in Bristol, but the one in Richmond Park really bugs me!
I generally ride at 18-20mph on the flat, so in theory you'd think I'd like it, as I should be comfortably moving at the same speed as the cars, neither overtaking nor needing to be overtaken.
Unfortunately, that fails to take into account the complete cranial implosion this triggers in the average motorist!
On the one hand, they can see that I'm riding near enough at the speed limit, but on the other hand, I'm a cyclist, so they HAVE to overtake me, coz it's the LAW!
If there was a thirty limit, they'd just overtake and we'd both be on their way, but as it's a twenty, the dopey wombats edge past me at about a mile or two per hour faster than me, knuckles white on the wheel, looking straight ahead, desperate to avoid eye contact!
Faux Liberal Track World ..
The roads where I am in Bristol are a mix of narrow residential roads with cars parked both sides and no room for overtaking, primary routes that have bus lanes, and a few roads that are wider, less congested, with cars parked down the side have have pinch points in places. these sound like the ones you mean, where motorists razz along and have to brake heavily if a cyclist is there (or just squeeze them out). I feel safer on these now, because if feel entitled to be on them - the 'rights' have been reversed sort of.
I find the 20 limits make the roads a far more pleasant place to be a cyclist or pedestrian.
The larger anti 20 petition has largely be sign by non residents who commute in, and don't get a vote in these matters.
still a couple of days to sign this to show the mayor you care.