[Closed] Bridleway access problem individual...

Do you know where he lives and does he have a lawn?

If you can’t avoid him again on there I’d just produce a map and show him. He hasn’t got a leg to stand on if everything says it’s a bridleway.

Even if it wasn’t a bridleway, unless he’s the landowner he still hasn’t got a leg to stand on.

What is wrong with these people?

I know roughly where he lives (I can easily find out exactly) - and I presume he would have a lawn - I think I know where this might be going..... but that's not quite the route I wanted to go.  🙂

Just say OK and cycle round him. You've expended way more of your life on this than you needed to.

Just ignore him and ride round.
You cannot have a rational discussion with idiots, so I would not bother trying.

Your time is not worth wasting in trying to change his mind or put him right.

I agree. That particular day I had had a lovely little ride out, including some nice interaction with a couple of horse riding groups who thanked me for verbally letting them (and the horses) know I was approaching from behind them. The weather was good and it was a very enjoyable couple of hours and then this numpty spoilt it all......

I have now printed the map from Surrey CC 'definitive map' and was going to pop that in the bag just in case. I suspect it wont help. One of the things he said was 'OS maps aren't always right you know, they do go out of date'   and better still when I mentioned the signposts he said 'Oh the first bit is a bridleway then it ends...!'  so you can see the problem as far as showing a print of the map goes....

Ignore the idiot.
If you are feeling energetic try and find out who the "park keeper" is and ask them to confirm whether they believe the same and why.

Exactly, you can't engage with these eejits. As if anything you say will make any difference.

Blow him a kiss and proceed on your way.

However last week I had a chap (who I happen to know from walking dogs)

Does he have a dog actually with him?
Don't wear bibs for a few days, its easier to slip baggies/undershorts off if you meet him and "Rover" on the section in question.

If he stops you again, ask for the name and number of the park keeper, as you'd like to report him for Misconduct in a Public Office. It's an offence for a public official to wilfully misrepresent the status of a public bridleway*.

*complete bobbins obviously, but might be worth a laugh...

Tell him to contact the local RoW team for clarification.

They may not thank you for it, but they'll be best equipped to shut him up.

option a) flying headbutt. or option b) just ignore him.

clearly is a prat, so dont waste your time if day on him.

Yup, move along/around him, no point arguing with him.

If you happen across the park ranger then a polite request if they could clarify for your own sanity, but there isn't much mileage in arguing with Dog Walker.

TBF, there should have been at least some public notification of the intention to change the designation of the track, or a notice posted at either end saying the designation has been changed. If you haven't seen it (and haven't missed it), it hasn't happened (pretty much).

I've had this once before, a lady was so concerned about where I "might" ride that she stopped her car, pulled over onto the Bridleway, leapt out and came scampering over to berate me for something that I hadn't yet done, but "might conceivably do".

Worth politely pointing out that obstruction is in itself an offence and that you're at liberty to take phone footage of them doing so, if their dog is off the lead on a Bridleway then this too isn't quite on. Be polite and agreeable, suggest that you'd welcome copying in the individual to an comms with the local council and helpfully suggest that they take the issue up with the OS people too. Above all else, kill with kindness. As soon as they realise that they're not getting a rise out of you they'll go away.

Ask him if he is the Landowner or the Agent of the Landowner. When he says "No?" you can quite rightly tell him that obstructing you is a criminal offence and you'll be talking to the police. And tell him he has absolutely no jurisdiction here.

Or just ignore him

Thanks all, I am as confident as I can be that it is a bridleway (for all those reasons mentioned in my post) and I said to him that I will continue in that frame of mind and continue to ride on it.

I think ignoring the twunt is the best policy its just sad that they exist ...  and if he gets more obnoxious or tries to physically obstruct I will consider reporting him...

He'll be stopping others so he probably needs to be reset nicely

If you know who he is contact the local authority and tell them that this individual is obstructing the PRoW and it would be very helpful if they asked him to stop. Highlight that the route is important to avoid a busy highway.

If stopped again, film him and tell him he's being reported to the police and LA for whatever made up crime you want to state

Or ask him to ring the police and tell them you are committing a crime, after he gets bollocked for wasting their time he'll hopefully stop

what park where, I'm in Surrey and can feel a bike ride coming on.......

He however was adamant it was no longer a bridleway because the Park Keeper said so

I'd have been tempted to ask precisely what precipitated that conversation, mainly just for giggles mind, though I can see no way that conversation came about unless he was being told not to do x y or z on a footpath.

 came scampering over to berate me for something that I hadn’t yet done, but “might conceivably do”.

Christ seriously? what the eff is the matter with some folk..!

Just ignore, so long as he doesn't block you. Smile and wave.

I encountered a driver on the wrong side of the farm track the other week going round a blind bend. I'd just passed a couple of walkers, and I could hear the car, dived to the side, but he came skidding to a stop, completely on the wrong side. I just said 'whoah wrong side', nothing else, then rode up the embankment on my MTB. He said 'hang on, lets discuss it'. I just said 'get over it' and carried on.

Thing is I recognised who it was, and he was a tit in his 20's, and still is in his 50's.

Some people are just nuts when it comes to ordinary people enjoying themselves on bikes. I’m not sure where it comes from but it must be that they get whipped up by the gutter press about cycling and think that by confronting ordinary people riding bikes they are doing their bit for their country in some way. I guess the baby boomer generation (some of them) just don’t have anything else to worry about?

I have now printed the map from Surrey CC ‘definitive map’ and was going to pop that in the bag just in case.

The best and most sensible option. It's a bridleway until the council/definitive map says otherwise.

Show him it. Point out you've been patient and polite with him. Point out that continuing to stop and harass cyclists is a public order offence* and criminal records are neither big nor clever.

*OK, I haven't actually fact checked that.

make a note of his description in case there is a rope across a bridleway incident in 6 months time

Christ seriously? what the eff is the matter with some folk..!

99% of folk I see out on my local trails are lovely, but there's always that one who likes to write a strongly worded letter to the Daily Mail because someone says "bum" on BBC2 thirty seconds after the watershed. There's not much that you can do except to not allow them to spoil your ride, which is really what they're trying to do. Just console yourself with the fact that their partner/dog/grandkids hate them for the same reasons as everyone else does.

He’ll be stopping others so he probably needs to be reset nicely

This +1 others may not be quite sure of their rights. It's a rare day that I can't get these sorts of idiots to see the error of their ways, even when I'm in the wrong and cycling on a footpath etc 😬

Where is it? I’d like to ride on it.

I’d be filming him and contacting the local row officer and if he exceeded polite conversation/attempted to stop or block you plod

“ a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1level 3 on the standard scale].”

From
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/137

Below defines bridleway as a highway
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/329

I've had issues with a stereotypical old dog walker on a bridleway that runs parallel to an old railway track now a cycleway. As usual she wouldn't listen to reason and just went apoplectic when I rattled off a list of access and obstruction laws and fines.
I left her to call the cops as I suggested.
Funny how no woman on her own should risk starting an argument with a stranger in a wood, yet the sight of a bike and all caution goes out the window.

Organise a pootle.

You lot down south need to mobilise for proper access laws like up here in Scotland. There really is no need for this nonsense.

I'll happily join your mass-not-at-all-trespass ride as I'm Surrey, too. Maybe the county is a hot spot for anti-cycling NIMBYs? There's an older chap near why I live who decided that stepping in front of me while I cycled along a canal tow path at about 10mph – to tell me to "slow down" – was a smart thing to do. Having said that, most walkers, horse riders and even drivers round here are just fine.

Organise a pootle

Miniature, toy or standard?

I just had a reply to an email I sent to Surrey CC - this confirms that it is a bridleway so that's been printed off to go with a print out of their map so I will try and reason with him next time I see him and see where that goes......

Reminds me of another village idiot I encountered in Tilford, Surrey a few years ago. Attempted to block our path on the bridleway, but I just went up the bank and around him and in his desperate lunge he fell flat on his face. I left him rolling on the floor clutching his throat shouting "my neck, my neck!".

What is wrong with these people?

They are ****s.

Some people are just nuts when it comes to ordinary people enjoying themselves on bikes. I’m not sure where it comes from

I think it comes in part from access laws (footpath, bridleway) that legitimise a them and us attitude to other countryside users.

You lot down south need to mobilise for proper access laws like up here in Scotland. There really is no need for this nonsense.

It happens up here too. These clowns for example although I think the grim reaper may have dealt with this couple.

I had this with a dog walker on the canal. I rode up behind him and he slowed down, I politely said excuse me and he ignored me, I again I politely said excuse me and he ignored me. He then said without turning round "you have no right to be on this path" in a really condescending voice. I'm not proud as he was someones granadad but I went ballistic he got every single expletive under the sun. I was livid at the injustice, as I'd been so polite and I thought he was deaf or something, not just been an old git.

The access legislation regarding bikes etc in England is nuts. Something needs to be done. Also I just don't understand why some walkers think bikes are some sort of monster.

It's the same with cycling on the pavement. If you're pootling then riding on a pavement that's hardly ever used as everyone else is too lazy to walk these days is fine as long as it's "buyer beware" in that the cyclist needs to understand the risk to others. In a lot of places nobody walks anywhere so why not cycle on the pavement. Even the police on bikes do round here. Road riding, head down is a different matter.

There are thousands of miles of decent double track routes that are classed as footpath that's off limits to cyclists currently. Likewise, many miles of churned up bridleway that you can hardly cycle down aren't suitable for bikes.

I'd be happy with access to footpaths and have to give way to walkers. Small price to pay. There may be some footpaths that are just too busy with walkers that cycling would be a painful experience in stopping and getting fed up.

I once had an old chap block eldest_oab and I on a bridge here in Dunblane. Walking stick out, he actually grabbed my handlebars after I stopped.

Started ranting about cyclists on footpaths, that there were bylaws about dismounting on the bridge and that he was going to report me. Properly in my face.

After listening for a minute, I asked him to turn round and tell me why there is a national cycle route sign and cyclist sign on the bridge entrance.

"oh, right you are, wrong bridge"

And walked off.

10 minutes later, new paper boy eldest_oab delivered his papers with a smile...

If the guy is a park keeper then inform the council that he is illegally hassling you and other members of the public. As his employer they will quickly take action, even if said park keeper is a volunteer they still have to take action as an employer. Also contact the RoW officer as attempts to block a right of way are illegal and they also have a duty to take action.
Also find out whether he is hassling the horse riders. For all sorts of reasons both good and bad they seem to hold massively more sway with councils when it comes to making sure bridleways are kept open.

was "stopped" by a couple the other day in the new forest - he was all byelaw this and access that, 'til I reminded him that having his dogs running off the lead was disturbing ground nesting birds in his precious forest

he literally offered me (and my mate) a fight. He was an old git just like us but smaller than either of us and looked way out of condition. Even if he'd once been handy it was a looong time ago

(Wasn't Ronnie but possibly his shorter, fatter, posher, southern brother)

It’s not big or clever, but if someone challenges me about riding somewhere, i only ever reply with ‘**** off’
And I don’t even slow down to interact, because I’m not interested in whatever bollocks they’re spouting.
Life really is too short.

slowol  "If the guy is a park keeper then inform the council....."  the guy causing grief isn't the park keeper, he was saying that the park keeper told him it was no longer a bridleway but I have no idea if that is true or not.

I agree with the general voice of responses, in that the system of having several possible designations for paths (footpath, bridleway and perhaps green lane) is the cause of many problems. People just don't know what the designation is sometimes. In this case I feel one of the contributing factors is that in the 30 years I've lived near said bridleway, I can't remember ever seeing horses on it, which may be due to it having a tricky (for a horse) little decent, I also very rarely saw any cyclists though I have always been aware that it was a bridleway. I started using it 6 or so years ago when I got back into mountain biking but this last year with what's been going on many more cyclists have found it and are using it and some people such as the individual in question, are  possibly just not used to that and assume it's not a bridleway as they have never seen horses on it and not many cyclists. The big problem for me was the inability to listen to the evidence that shows otherwise and the rather stupid arguments in response.

As some have said, It would be much simpler if much more (or all) paths were open to cyclists then everyone would know that if they had a right to be there then so did a cyclist and they just couldn't argue. That might have other unforseen problems though such as trying to cycle or ride a horse down inappropriately small paths.

Whatever,  it feels like the system does need a major overhaul and more opening up to cyclists.

Fart in his general direction.

There was a thread on here a few weeks ago where someone was accosted by an individual claiming to be some sort of council ranger type - a phone call to the council revealed that no such position of authority existed but it wouldn't be the first time someone had tried to claim such a thing. And actually a random member of the public has less right to tell you off for using a trail than you have for riding it - the only person who can legitimately tell you to leave is the landowner.

It’s not big or clever, but if someone challenges me about riding somewhere, i only ever reply with ‘**** off’

I don't go that far but I do tend towards the "I know, silly isn't it?!" response.

It's pathetic really - since there's no rational distinction between a BW and a FP other than some signage, you could be in a situation where you're riding on a 5ft wide grassy track and accosted because it's FP and riding on a 5ft wide grassy track and no-one says a word because it's BW.

It's not just cyclists singled out by this kind of Brexit supporter.
Seeing as it was nice at the weekend we went swimming in a local river. We've been going to the spot for years but over lockdown it's gotten busy on sunny days, which is pretty understandable.
Although it was busy on Saturday, particularly with youngsters, everyone was being well behaved, nobody being a dick, no lighting fires, no litter, no loud music etc.
The local fun police were all out in force. Two people berating people for making their way along the ROW to the river. One person hiding in the bushes taking photos. One person called the cops claiming it was a rave (we spoke to the police - who were sound - and saw it as a gigantic waste of their time).
No basis for any one of them to be acting in the way they were.

Unfortunately the truth is that these people just like spoiling for a fight and making other people's lives unpleasant. So don't give them what they want.

"You must be one of those rare people who really are as stupid as they look. Didn't your mother teach you not to tell lies?"

“You must be one of those rare people who really are as stupid as they look. Didn’t your mother teach you not to tell lies?”

That’s no way to talk about the OP. Bit harsh 😂

 these people just like spoiling for a fight and making other people’s lives unpleasant. So don’t give them what they want.

I think you're right, a good while back a chap stopped me (on a FP TBF) and we went through the normal rigmaroll of establishing he wasn't the land owner, when he said I was spoiling his walk, "Righty-ho" I said, I'll just sit here and have a biscuit, on you go" It was a short descent, by the time I'd have finished my break he would've been away on the road below, but no...He kept on at me for a good 5 minutes while I sat and ate, when I'd finished, I just said "I'll go first then?" and rode off.

Bizarre behaviour

It’s pathetic really – since there’s no rational distinction between a BW and a FP other than some signage, you could be in a situation where you’re riding on a 5ft wide grassy track and accosted because it’s FP and riding on a 5ft wide grassy track and no-one says a word because it’s BW.

Bridleways are technically highway and need to be passable by horses so stiles don't appear on them.

Personally I think that a change to allow human powered pedal cycles on to footpaths with a "give way" obligation is the way forward. If your ebike is too heavy to get over the stile then it's tough and if you have modded it it should be subject to the same laws that motorcrossers are and at risk of confiscation and crushing

Unfortunately the truth is that these people just like spoiling for a fight and making other people’s lives unpleasant. So don’t give them what they want.

Basically this. These people have been fed a narrative that 'this country is going to the dogs' for years and they have lapped it up. They want to feel like they are 'stemming the tide', but are basically cowards, so they wouldn't do anything about real crime or issues.... enter someone riding a bike, perhaps where they technically shouldn't and (worse crime of all) enjoying themselves.

A couple of years ago I had run-ins with an officious prat. We had established he wasn't the land owner the first time. The second time he started all 'basic' then escalated in a flash...

Him: You do know you aren't supposed to ride a bike on this footpath, don't you?

Me: Are you the landowner or his or her appointed agent?

Him (screaming): YOU ARE A C---!

It was so unexpected I just creased up laughing. He looked like he was going to explode. I carried on riding. Nothing changed. I haven't seen him since - maybe he's given up hassling grown men riding bikes and moved onto something easier like yelling at kids kicking a ball around on a patch of grass somewhere. Frankly I don't give a shit. 🙊

Although it was busy on Saturday, particularly with youngsters, everyone was being well behaved, nobody being a dick, no lighting fires, no litter, no loud music etc.
The local fun police were all out in force. Two people berating people for making their way along the ROW to the river. One person hiding in the bushes taking photos.

I would have thought the police take a dim view of people hiding in bushes and taking photos of children, might be worth pointing this out if you find yourself in this same situation again!

Personally I think that a change to allow human powered pedal cycles on to footpaths with a “give way” obligation is the way forward. If your ebike is too heavy to get over the stile then it’s tough and if you have modded it it should be subject to the same laws that motorcrossers are and at risk of confiscation and crushing

That seems a sensible way forward

Two people berating people for making their way along the ROW to the river. One person hiding in the bushes taking photos. One person called the cops claiming it was a rave (we spoke to the police – who were sound – and saw it as a gigantic waste of their time).

That's completely nuts. Whoever it was hiding in the bushes with a camera needs their harddrive looking at.

I hope that the others were b*****ed for wasting police time.

I've had this discussion on some nice little singletrack lines that have developed to the side of a local ex-railway line path, the Whitegate Way in mid Cheshire for those that know it. "These are footpaths, you should be on the main path" etc.

After the first time, on the off chance the curmudgeonly old coffin dodger was correct I looked at the definitive map and was surprised to see that even the main track has no designation. The second time I tried to explain all this to, what I think was the same fun sponge to no avail so now I just make sympathetic noises, give them plenty of room to pass carry on enjoying my day.

Ignore him.

If it’s posted as a BW then that’s all the justification you need. Ridiculous ROW in England any way..

came scampering over to berate me for something that I hadn’t yet done, but “might conceivably do”

I've had a "i hope you're staying on the bridlepaths" from a group of hoorays who were clearly fox hunting.

Personally I think that a change to allow human powered pedal cycles on to footpaths with a “give way” obligation is the way forward.

I don't think this will have the desired effect as it still creates a 'them and us' scenario and puts demands on cyclists that aren't on other path users. Equal rights and responsibilities for all non-motorised users is the only way to go.

I don’t think this will have the desired effect as it still creates a ‘them and us’ scenario and puts demands on cyclists that aren’t on other path users.

Give way with an equally weighted "do not obstruct" could work.

That seems a sensible way forward

It does, but have your read "Walk" recently? (It's the magazine of the Ramblers). Every edition has a moany letter about cyclist's access rights. nearly every letter is legally incorrect...and the Ramblers must know that, but they publish them anyway. They're happy to feed their membership a drip-drip of misinformation and indignation rather than try to actually do anything constructive.

I don't expect access right to change for the better anytime soon

Whoever came up with the access laws in England played an absolute blinder.

The peasants argue among themselves about who is allowed what from the the meagre access scraps thrown to them while the gentry sit in their mansions counting their money.

while the gentry sit in their mansions counting their money.

*OUR* money...

https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/access-or-answers-both-are-elusive-bolton-abbey-estate-row-goes?

I ride my bike through a park on the way to work (tarmac path, I'm very considerate blah blah blah) and I occasionally get an indignant "this is a footpath you know!".

My default response is a smile and an "I know, silly isn't it?".

Depending on my mood and their demeanour.

I’ve used “I know, silly isn’t it”, “Sorry, I don’t speak English” and “Sorry, I don’t speak dickhead”.

Now that the OP has the email of confirmation from the Highway Authority, can I suggest if he ever meets that nutter again that he offers to forward the email to him, rather than show him a paper copy. Being a helpful kind of chap. Once you've got his email address, I am sure he would appreciate you signing him up to various specialist websites;)

I do tend towards the “I know, silly isn’t it?!” response.

I would highly recommend this approach to anyone who hasn't yet tried it.

I used it in the lakes when arguing with some prick about whether it was better for my 7 year old kid to be riding the footpath or the A593.

We discussed the various rights and wrongs of it and he had nothing remotely persuasive to say apart from permutations on " But this is a footpath, you are not allowed to ride on it"

“I know, silly isn’t it?!”

At which point he'd try again to come up with done actual reasons, but couldn't. So he'd revert to saying it againz even louder.

At which point I'd reply in complete agreement even louder " YES, I KNOW, ITS TOTALLY BARMY ISNT IT"

It really does work excellently.

“Sorry, I don’t speak English” and “Sorry, I don’t speak dickhead”.

I am totally using those 😂

" I ride where I *ing well please and I don't give a * about anyone except myself" usually gets them fired up. Childish I know, but cheers me up for the rest of the ride without getting angry.

I get this shmight here too on occasions. Even “not a bridleways”. I ask what a bridle way is. Got a plague of no cycling signs to ignore as well(East Lothian)

Last trip to Herefordshire I got grief while walking and taking photos (I do a lot of geograph stuff) in a wood by trail diggers.

Get off somebody else’s land

How about "we can ride on paths now the EU can't tell us what to do."
That should lead to some serious gammon mind melt.

Say hello in French, German, Spanish, whichever takes your fancy. I find it confuses the **** out of them. Especially handy when oncoming fellow cyclists seem to forget which side of the road we drive on.

How about “we can ride on paths now the EU can’t tell us what to do.”

the reverse psychology of this is genius 🙂

How about “we can ride on paths now the EU can’t tell us what to do.”
That should lead to some serious gammon mind melt.

Brilliant!!

How about “we can ride on paths now the EU can’t tell us what to do.”
That should lead to some serious gammon mind melt.

Excellent 👍

@zippykona - brilliant

“Sorry, I don’t speak dickhead”.

Totally using that!

“we can ride on paths now the EU can’t tell us what to do.”

Needs a bit of finessing but need to work the Brexit angle in somehow too.

Told a ranty gammon golfer to take it up with Dominic Cummings about a year ago in the days after the Rose Garden Pinocchio session. He shouted "**** off!" which I'm pretty sure is against club rules. 😅

🍆💦