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So my brakes are squeaking and no matter what I try I can't get rid of the squeal. It's not all the time and sometimes only when I apply them lightly - further pressure and the noise goes. Then they heat up a bit and start squealing all the time. So I took the pads out to have a look, and there is a lip at the top of both pads where the rotor obviously isn't touching the pads so it has worn an indent on the rest of the pad. I examined the pads when in the calliper and sure enough they don't fully cover the rotor and there is no adjustment because it's all fixed in place. These are SRAM AXS Rival HRD brakes. This is the second set of pads actually, and new upgraded rotors as I was fed up trying to cure the squeal on the original ones that came on the bike!! I've just looked at the pads I took out which were virtually new and there is the beginning of an indent on them too so it's clearly nothing to do with the pads or rotors being poorly manufactured.
Is this a thing?
Just looked at my Shimano 4 pot ones on the other bike and the pads fully cover the rotor.
Not an expert at all, but is the problem here more to do with the bike? Or more specifically, the frame? If the brake mounts on the frame are wrong that would locate the discs incorrectly in the pads. Could be that or the brakes.
Yeah it could be the frame - it'll have to be replaced under warranty if that is the case! I've been looking at the calliper housings for higher end SRAM brakes and they all look very similar if not identical so I very much doubt it's a tolerance issue. Seems most odd. They can't all be like that surely? Unless there is some way of adjusting it that I'm not aware of. I ca obviously adjust the calliper side to side to get the pad gap correct but not closer to the frame...
Do the calipers have washers on the mount? If so, would removing the washers (or replacing with thinner / thicker ones) move the calipers into a better position?
Zero squeal on my Rival AXS, find them pretty good. Does sound like either the frame or adapters (if any) are off.
You sometimes have to face brake mounts to be within spec (assuming any current brackets or spacers are correct)
No washers under the mount so nothing to remove there. Its the same front and rear. I've removed the front and re-seated the calliper but the bolts have very little play in them other than the side to side. It's a carbon frame so I'm not going to do anything to it myself - LBS will be looking at it after the weekend I suspect.... Potentially the mounts under the callipers could be modified I suppose or swapped for better ones...
there is no adjustment because it’s all fixed in place.
Started typing, realised road bike... so not sure... guess by fixed in place, you mean they're flat mount?
I've got low-end mtb brakes - DB8 on my ebike and they've never made the slightest noise, even in the wet. Stop the weight of me and a hefty ebike no problem too. So that's the answer to your subject line, but maybe not your actual issue!
Yes, Specialized road bike. The callipers are fixed with screws onto a mount which then has separate screws that go through it into the frame. The calliper screws are only accessible if you remove the mount as they screw into the calliper from the underside of the mount.
My Shimano MTB brakes made no noise either except the first grab when it was chucking it down but as soon as they heated up it stopped. These are very annoying by comparison but I'm guessing it has something to do with the uneven pad wear.
Got pics? It would be very odd for a stock build to have such an issue. What rotors did you upgrade to?
If it helps, my rival calipers squeel with non SRAM rotors sometimes, but I've no issues with pad interface etc
I would try a different brand or compound of pad before I did anything else.
I upgraded from SRAM Paceline to SRAM Centreline (same size obviously) and I bought the SRAM pads that have “quiet” printed on the packaging! 😂🙄 I followed the quite frankly ridiculous SRAM bed in procedure and I did at first think I’d cracked it but gradually the squeal has returned so I’m thinking it must be to do with the lip that’s subsequently been created on the pads. It’s the same front and rear.
I’m disappointed that they are not lined up with the rotors on such an expensive bike - which I’ve had from new and is only a few months old. This is all exacerbated by my SRAM GX cassette experience as per my other post.
I only discovered it yesterday so I haven’t been into the LBS for their opinion as yet.
Im away so I can’t get pics at the mo. I will do after the weekend though….
SRAM stuff always feel lie they never finish their testing before releasing it to the public
The Rival calipers i had suffered with a micro leak that was contaminating the pads = loads of noise and not much braking
203 discs / 200 mount or vice versa? That would create a lip.
Sram Level is low end and actually pretty dam good.
How big is the lip? That'll be what's causing the squeal, nothing to do with pad or rotor choice. Have you checked the adaptor between the caliper and the frame? Having the wrong one or having it upside down will cause a lip like that.
160 mm rotors on 160 mounts, it’s all the stock stuff that came on the bike apart from I’ve swapped the rotors and pads for upgrades but SRAM still. Bike was brand new delivered from Specialized to a Specialized owned dealer. And the original rotors and pads clearly had the same issue as when I’ve inspected the pads I took out which were used on the original rotors, they have a lip on too.
I'd check they're the right way up, they're not back ones one the front etc. Other than wrong disc size, that's the most likely culprit.
Edit - you want to sort it. I cocked up a mount once and only found out when the lip meant the pads didn't contact the rotor properly leaving me with no brakes halfway down a hill.
Yeah deffo going to LBS as soon as they’re open again after the weekend - I will double check myself that the mounts are the right way up. Pretty sure the mounts have 140 and 160 printed on them and the one on the front definitely says front on it - I only had a quick examination last night but had to pack for a weekend away (without the bike) so I’ll investigate thoroughly when I get back.
Haven’t SRAM/Avid entry level brakes always been crap?
It’s certainly what I remember from way back. Cheap Shimano we’re always unglamorous but functional.
203 discs / 200 mount or vice versa?
I’ve yet to see a road bike with that 😂
How big is the lip? That’ll be what’s causing the squeal, nothing to do with pad or rotor choice.
lip is about 1-2mm and once I discovered it my thoughts were exactly that.
Good to have some confirmation/agreement. Still, very poor on a top end bike though ☹️ although I have no doubt the LBS will sort as they’re very very helpful and nice. I just hope it’s not a massive job… maybe I’ll need a new frame…😲
I’ve just been through my first set of pads on my Rival’d bike and I think they are the most evenly worn pads I’ve ever changed. So to answer your question, no they’re not all shit.
I have had this issue on a MTB though and have had to run 200mm mounts with 203mm rotors to get full contact, but that’s obviously not your problem here.
My bike came with Shimano 105 calipers. I don't know about SRAM but in Shimano world there are two kinds of disc - soft stamped ones that say 'organic pads only' on, and more expensive laser cut ones that don't, and are made of (or faced with in the case of ice-tech) harder steel. The former squeal like hells bells after a while as you describe, the latter do not.
Yeah, don’t know about SRAM either. Will do some research. Interesting though as I always thought that organic pads were supposed to be quieter and that’s all I ever used on the MTB. The pads that fit my SRAM callipers have various flavours and I have two types as spares, one set says “quiet “ on the packaging and one says “powerful”. Not sure what the difference is, they have a slightly different part code. Pretty sure my squealing is down to the uneven wear.
Looking about the tinterweb regarding the pad wear and the lip, it would seem that the brake mounts need facing. On a carbon frame with flat mounts this seems like a massive job as both front and rear need doing and the risk of arsing it up seems quite high. Should I be asking for a new frame as it’s obviously come out of the factory like that…?
The pads that fit my SRAM callipers have various flavours and I have two types as spares, one set says “quiet “ on the packaging and one says “powerful”.
I assume the AXS version uses the same calipers? If so then I think quiet are Organic and Heavy Duty are metal. My originals were organic, I’ve just fitted metal ones (and accept that they will be noisy when wet).
Edit: looks like a different caliper for AXS and “Powerful” are also organic.
https://www.sram.com/en/service/articles/SRAM-Brake-Pad-Overview
Yes mine are the top ones next to the Small section
2 Piece Caliper:
QUIET/ORGANIC 00.5318.024.001
QUIET+LIGHT/ORGANIC 00.5315.035.020
POWERFUL ORGANIC 00.5315.035.031
HEAVY DUTY/SINTERED 00.5315.035.010
I'm running the Quiet/Organic. Black
99% sure my issue is because of misaligned flat mount callipers in need of facing. Which on an £8000 bike is fairly disappointing.
Here's a question then... both front and rear are flat mount with adapters for 160mm rotors. So is it likely (I think I know the answer..) that the SRAM adapters are enough out of spec that the callipers are 1-2mm too high? If so does anyone make better quality flat mount adapters that are less of a lottery as to whether or not they fit properly...?
Hmm - so bike been into Specialized dealer and they say a lot of bikes are like this and the only thing they can try is to attempt to modify the calliper mounting bracket but that is all. Because the flat mounted rear calliper has through bolts there is no "mount" to face.
Really? Surely this isn't acceptable on an £8K bike or am I being unreasonable in expecting the brakes to be perfect?
Anyone?
Surely this isn’t acceptable on an £8K bike or am I being unreasonable in expecting the brakes to be perfect?
not unreasonable at all imo
the other take away from that…8k for a bike with a 3rd tier group set…😬😳
Flat mount.
Add it to the 'shiiite standards that are worse than before' list please!
Notice that they never call it 'square and true mount' ?
Add it to the ‘shiiite standards that are worse than before’ list please!
I think it's already on there TBH. 🙄😂
I've WhatsApp'd Specialized Rider Care and they are going to contact the dealer and discuss options. No idea what that will entail so I am waiting for an update tomorrow....
Because the flat mounted rear calliper has through bolts there is no “mount” to face.
What's the bike? Maybe it's a quirk of the frame, or maybe they just don't have the right (expensive) tool.. but, generally speaking, you can face flat mounts.
Its a Specialized Creo (carbon frame). They have the Park DT tool (although they may not have the carbon adapter). Basically, they said that it's a common problem (???) and is a result of them (Specialized) having to make a single frame that will fit SRAM/Shimano/Campag callipers which are all different so the frame mounts are an average. This particular frame has alloy threaded inserts on the forks which allow some degree of facing but the rear is a through bolt so there is no aluminium - there is carbon though and I know that carbon can be faced so not sure why they are saying there isn't enough material. It's the rear that's worse though and is about 1-2mm too high at one end.
Can you take a bit off the mount itself? Local machine shop?
That’s what they’re proposing to do as a workaround.. Thing is though it needs more off one end than the other and it’s a bit trial and error it would seem. Still, I kind of want it doing properly on the frame as it’s effectively still a new bike.
LBS have worked their magic and while it's not 100% perfect it is loads better - combination of facing the frame and the mount bracket they tell me. I'll see what happens as they wear. Hopefully the squeal is gone now as well.
LBS have been really really helpful so I'm extremely pleased I bought it there.