[Closed] Brake: Hope vs Shimano?

Got Hope Tech M4 front and Tech lever with Mono M4 caliper at the back. Quite old and see no need to change them. Bought second hand Trigger's Broom style, so they didin't cost much.

If I had to buy new and I had the money, Hope E4 or V4 all day long.
If I had to buy new on a budget, XT (badge snpbbery) or SLX.

Shimano if you like on/off feel and all round lighter in grams, but not as diyable as Hopes which have progressive power on the lever.

Personally run Hope M4s currently with 183mm rotors on the full suss, as they suit but have had a set of XTR races which were incredibly potent with 160mm rotors on the SS.

Both highly reccommended, just choose from what feel you prefer in power from the lever.

I've had Hopes for years, new bike has SRAM Guide RSC which easily outperform them. Loads of power and modulation, plus much less squeal. That's Mono M4 's I'm comparing them to though and newer brakes might be better.

Own both - Hope have more "feel", or at the very least more lever travel for the same power. TBH, I find I have plenty modulation with Shimano, and I would be hard pressed to pay a premium for Hope again.

But the Hope do look awfully nice....

Yeah those Sram guides feel in lbs that they'd definitely perform equally so Avids that I have ever used have been great for mixture if progressive and on/off power from lever.

I had Ultimates and CR versions which were both outstanding but some say for maintaining whilst doing pad changes and bleeding is a pita.

Hooe this helps narrow it down a bit on choice. 😉

Shimano for me.

I've never had Hope bits - but I don't think the "DIY-able" bit matters as I've never had to repair my Shimano brakes!

The very fact that that is an important feature of the Hope product must tell you that they need more maintenance than the Shimano.

Pretty much the same as you, had Hope minis and they were shit, easily out-performed by the Deore that happily replaced them, and weren't touched for years and years. Couple of years ago I was lucky to be able to build a bike free from cost considerations and bought Hope X2. They're fine in every way, they look nice, they stop, they don't squeal, they don't eat pads and they've been fit and forget.

I wish I bought the XTR I hmmm'd and haww'd over though. I miss how Shimano feel.

Granted the Hope mono mini pros were draggy and of no use going down any steep sections with 160mm rotors and Shimano equivalent back then would of probably wiped the floor on stopping force needed.

I'm not sure Hope brakes require much attention as such.
Pretty sure if the seals go on a Shimano lever that the whole/complete lever needs replacing.
Hope however carry stock of spares plus Hope use a different oil more commonly found and also does not heat up as much so I am informed from reading on this very forum.

SRAM Guide RSC..

Had XT's, Elixir's, Zee's..

Guides beat them all in terms of power vs weight vs feel..

Have both, shimano are decent enough and great value for money but the hopes outperform them by a long way ime, but cost roughly twice as much.

Having said that it may not be a fair comparison as the shimanos are xt whilst the hopes are Tech 3 V4's (both on 200/203mm rotors)

I've had a few of both, Hope are beautifully made and look great - but they're bulky which is a pain if you fit them inside of your shifters.

Shimano work perfectly all the time, even the most basic Deore ones have done day after day in the Alps without issue and they're what a third, quater of the price?

I'm going to get rid of my Avid brakes, I've had enough of the loud, two toned horn effect. Seriously, the rear brake is quite a high pitch scream and the front one is a lower pitched scream. Finally after 2 years I've given up on them, utter trash.

Think it's xt brakes for my trail bike, the saints I have on my dh bike are just perfect.

Just changed all my brakes to Shimano ( bar one on a new bike) from Hopes in the past. Don't want the Hope faffage.

Hope faffage? Thats a new one on me. Only thing i ever do is change pads

@philstone are your guide brakes noisy?

I've had two shimano calliper seals fail: new calliper time. I also have a set of hope mono minis that are 11 years old, still on original seals.

I have Guide RSC's. Quietest disc brakes I've owned - virtually silent.

I run Hope V2's and Race evo X2's both beautifully made, reliable and personally I really like the feel of them... The V2's have ample power and looked after me in the Alps and Molini. Service wise Hopes are fully home-mechanic friendly and the parts are cheap too...

Shimano -- bit like Japanese cars IMO they do the job really well, reliable, but unless you buy XTR are a bit soulless and if they fail then unfortunately chuck it in the bin and buy a new calliper/lever....

I did the whole Hope vs Shimano thing a couple of years ago when I was upgrading the brakes on my 5-Spot.

In the end I went for the Hopes because of the ability to get spares from Hope, not that I expect them to break lots, but as I plan on keeping these for a long time and being able to get spares means that I won't need to buy a whole new set of brakes in 5 years time if a seal fails etc.

Whether they are more powerful than the XT/XTRs doesn't really matter to me, the Hopes manage to stop me just fine on long alpine descents without any trouble at all. Although I suspect that the old Deores I have on one of my other bikes would do that too! Once you get to a certain level of stopping power it really becomes immaterial I think..

Shimano. The great thing about Hope is you can repair them endlessly. The great thing about Shimano is you hardly ever need to. If you like tinkering with shiny stuff you might like Hope, but even then Dot fluid is not good for your skin, eyes or paint.

I've had a pair of old Deore on one bike, and old saints on the other, both were flawless. Five odd years without issue. Replaced them with new(ish) Deore and XT, I sold the bike with deore about three years ago and the current owner's never had to bleed them. My XT's needed a bleed when I crashed and wrecked a lever. Replaced the whole thing for buttons.

andylc - Member

I have Guide RSC's. Quietest disc brakes I've owned - virtually silent.

Every brake I've ever owned has been silent. My rotors and pads on the other hand.....

Shimano for me. Brilliant performance, cracking value, easy to bleed, no issues at all (and I have everything from Deore up to XTR).

I have some Hopes too (X2 Race) which are fine.

What cardo said. You won't be disappointed either way, but the feel is different so you might want to try some if you can. I did and went with Hope Race Evo X2s, but could live with Shimanos if I had to.

Hope faffage? Thats a new one on me. Only thing i ever do is change pads

Hope M4's. Continual seizing pistons. Replaced pistons and seals. Never works properly, whatever we tried. Gave up after about 6 rebuilds and yes, I know what I am doing.

Hope XC4's. Just terrible. Sent back to Hope in the end and they allowed me to have a contribution to them selling me new Mono's.

Hope Mono's worked for a while. Sticky pistons again. Resealed and worked, but power was woeful and lever inconsistent, compared to Deores on another bike, so bought some Deores and sold the Monos.

I therefore now don't faff with brakes, just fit and forget.

Had so so many hopes in the past and tried some shimano XTR and not looked back since

By country mile better IMO

I'm in the Shimano camp. All of their brakes that I've and have been brilliant...even more so when you think about how much they cost.

Used to my a Hope fanboy but gave up when they introduced the original Mini. Utter junk as were the M4's that used the same lever and yes I've had both. Didn't like the Mono range either. I've not tried any of the modern brakes but to me they just look clumpy.

Not sur a brake can be considered as having soul...

Shimano for me.

I've never had Hope bits

Good enough reason.

- but I don't think the "DIY-able" bit matters as I've never had to repair my Shimano brakes!

The very fact that that is an important feature of the Hope product must tell you that they need more maintenance than the Shimano.

I've had plenty of Hope parts and had virtually no problems. The brakes I've had have been maintenance free and have never gone wrong.

Saying that, Shimano are not exactly prone to failure in my experience.

Hope are nicer to own IMO, a fancy part that you enjoy rather then a functional item like Shimano. They don't offer any real performance advantage though so I guess it comes down to your priorities and how deep your pockets are.

The older hopes definitely need more looking after. The newer ones (tech lever onwards) requite no tinkering at all. Had M4s for about 5 years and x2s for a couple, both second user and have had to do nothing but change pads. They just work and don't need messing with. The older m4/e4s I've had did need caliper and master cylinder rebuilds. Had the e4s for about 14 years and still working but probably not ad good sd new now.

My experience with Shimano is constant howling brakes from seals going and spraying fine mist of oil over everything. Once Shimano oil get on pads, throw the pads out, you can't clean them. Then have to buy new calipers because the brakes aren't serviceable.. what??? Then have BOTH front and back break totally fail at -5 degrees within 15 minutes of each other on a winter night ride. You'll understand that I will never ride Shitmanos again.

My experience with Hope. Fit a set of X2 Race. Ride, stop, ride, repeat. Change pads at reasonable intervals. That is all. Did some big miles last year and several races, lots of long challenging descents, and an Alps MTBing holiday... brakes didn't miss a beat.

Nikk I assume you sent the faulty shimanos back under warranty? Or were they second hand?

Shimano if you like on/off feel

Sorry, but this old chestnut doesn't hold true. Plenty of modulation from SLX and Deores I've owned - not as much as Formulas but still very good.

Granted the Hope mono mini pros were draggy and of no use going down any steep sections with 160mm rotors

My experience with them in a nutshell with 203 and 180mm rotors. My original Mini's before them were good for the time. Newer brakes may be different too but I haven't felt they offered anything in performance terms that Shimano and Formula haven't.

I like the way that current Shimano brakes keep getting compared to old Hope brakes. Very useful...

Magura!

Runs away...

Shimano if you like on/off feel
Sorry, but this old chestnut doesn't hold true.

Shimano's do modulate, just not where near as much as Hope. I've had the new Deore, SLX, XT and XTR.

I've also had the new Hope Tech 3 E4 and X2.

I kept blowing the seals on my Shimanos, must have gone through five or six. Warrantied every time, but still weeks without brakes is rubbish.

What I found is that when I switched to the Hope E4s I found that I was locking the rear a hell of a lot less - as there's a lot more modulation to the Hopes. That was after a long time of using Shimanos.

I've had Avid Trails too, which were very good - and if the Guides are like them, then they'll be excellent too.

Given the choice, and not worrying about money - I'd buy the Hope E4 every time. If I was on a budget, I'd just buy Deore or SLX - XT and XTR are pointless, more money for very very little gain (I think SLX came up lighter on my scales).

Hopes only since the original Mini came out. Never had a good reason to use any others.

Shimano for me. Hope are nice enough and work but the current XTR brake in am using are simply perfect and they will be for a very long time.

What nikk said.

Must have sent back over 30 shimano calipers in the last few years. Never want to hear the sound of contaminated shitmanos again.

[quote=glasgowdan]Nikk I assume you sent the faulty shimanos back under warranty? Or were they second hand?

No, I threw the lot in the bin. Life it too short.

If you ride in freezing temps especially, avoid Shimano like the plague.

Have been running Shimano brakes since my return to MTBing five years ago now.

No problems with any of them, I've had really cheap basic Alivio OEM stuff on a £600 hardtail to Zee on my current Trance, all have been great in their own way, pads have been cheap and easy to change, never had to bleed them, power has been awesome throughout the models I've had....only thing I've done is play around with rotor sizes.

The modulation thing baffles me, are hamfisted individuals just yanking on the lever and expecting a gentle build up of power?....you pull the lever gently for a gentle application of pad to disc, or maybe just try reaching forward with a single finger and squeezing....it's very intuitive, you'll find they have great modulation if used correctly!

If I had to grab a handful of lever to stop I'd send them back as faulty not rave about feel and modulation.

Had Shimano's on both the mtb's since 2010ish, much better than the avids they replaced, girlfriend has hopes on her full-suss - they are slightly better modulated than the shimanos but not that much better, they do look very nice however. Had no real mechanical issues with either of them.

The modulation thing baffles me, are hamfisted individuals just yanking on the lever and expecting a gentle build up of power?....you pull the lever gently for a gentle application of pad to disc, or maybe just try reaching forward with a single finger and squeezing....it's very intuitive, you'll find they have great modulation

Shimanos do modulate, theyre just no where near the level of modulation of Hope or Avid. Once youve spent time on those, Shimanos feel on/off. Simple as that. For me it now feels like using my clutch foot on the brake when using Shimanos now.

I have no problem modulating Shimanos, just Hope or Avid have a lot more inbetween on and off.

The modulation thing baffles me, are hamfisted individuals just yanking on the lever and expecting a gentle build up of power?....you pull the lever gently for a gentle application of pad to disc, or maybe just try reaching forward with a single finger and squeezing....it's very intuitive, you'll find they have great modulation if used correctly!

It's not that complicated - Hopes tend to exhibit a rising/linear rate of decelerative force vs lever pressure whilst Shimanos tend to exhibit a linear/falling rate, therefore the Hopes make it easier to apply smaller amounts of power but still have lots of power when you need it. Similar to how a full-sus with rising leverage rate will be more plush at low travel yet take more force to bottom out.

Hope M4's. Continual seizing pistons. Replaced pistons and seals. Never works properly, whatever we tried. Gave up after about 6 rebuilds and yes, I know what I am doing.

Glad I'm not the only one that finds M4's a bit disappointing.

I've got a set of the Tech M4's with 183/160 discs and although the modulation is good they've always felt like they've lacked power despite replacing all the seals, master cylinder pistons, and numerous bleeds. I remember not long after I got them getting to the end of a descent on the Quantocks and hitting the gate at the bottom with the front brake fully applied 😆

I only weigh 10 stone so it's not as though they've got much to stop! The Hayes stroker trails on my other bike are definitely more powerful. Maybe sticky pistons are the reason a few of the Hope 4 pot brakes seem to come out down on power compared to similar brakes in magazine tests?

chiefgrooveguru - Member
I like the way that current Shimano brakes keep getting compared to old Hope brakes. Very useful...

Always nice to be appreciated!

Running tech m4s from 2011 and current XT's the XT just about edges it at the moment but that is going up against a 4 year old brake. It's not had that much done to it but when I bent the lever blade I just swapped it out. The reason that old hopes get compared to new shimano is most people who buy hope fine no reason to replace them over the years. There is also a marked difference in modulation between the 2.

If it helps, the Tech 3 E4 and X2 are in a different league to the Tech 2 and M4s/Race/X2 caliper.

I'm comparing old Hopes to modern Shimanos, as Hope didn't manage to get them right when I spent lots of money buying them ages ago, so I bought Shimano for less money and they work better and don't see the point of 'Hoping' Hope have got it sorted on modern brakes.

i've had hope race x2 on all my race bikes for last few years, bought a pair of deore's for my training bike and the power and reliability is incredible for £65 a pair! will eventually phase out my hopes.

It's about time hope moved to mineral oil like Shimano have.

Shimano brakes don't need bleeding every year to keep the seals happy.

I would like hopes, but I can't say they would be better than the XT brakes I'm running now, especially as they're quite a bit more expensive.

Part of the reason people compare old v new is that Shimano are a big oem supplier and hence come specced on a lot of new bikes, there's a good chance anyone who's bought a new bike in the last few years will have had Shimano.

Hope generally don't come specced on new bikes understandably, and so are generally bought as an upgrade by people who like to add bling to their bikes and considering the price will be more likely to transfer their expensive bling from one build to the next than punt them on.

Despite there being probably a few thousand times the number of Shimano brakes in circulation compared to Hope, the fact that they still have an overwhelming reputation for reliability should speak volumes.

overwhelming reputation for reliability

Most people i know with Shimano brakes have blown the seals on the m785 stylE lever or caliper.

I dont think its a fair comparison though, Shimano are cheaply made, good brakes. Theyre almost identical in action and feel from their very cheap Deore to the more expensive XTR. My favourite of all the brakes I used from the range were the Slx, they just felt spot on.

On the other hand, Hope make a single lever, with three types of caliper depending on your intended use. There's no budget option.

Also worth noting, I never got on with the pre-Tech 3 lever brakes and the comparison between new Shimano and pre-Tech3 is pointless, and Shimano are far better performers than older Hopes, the difference was always parts availability and service support.

deviant - Member

The modulation thing baffles me

The modulation characteristics of a brake are provided by the brake, not your finger. 💡

I've just had a set of Race Evo E4's land on the mat this morning 😀 They are replacing a set of Mini Pro X2's I've had for the past five or six years. These have been absolutely faultless and will now probably see service on my wife's bike (she loves getting my hand-me-downs). The only reason for the change is i'm looking for a bit more power.

Before buying I tried the new Shimano XT and XTR options as well and was very impressed. They were a significant step up from the Mini's and I would be very happy to run them. Brake feel was definitely different but neither were bad and I could easily get used to either. All including the Mini's are so much better than the dire Hayes, Avid and old Shimano dual control crap I have had before. If anyone wants a lovely set of Avid Elixr's let me know, they're fantastic (honestly).

I got 30% off at Whinstanley's and paid £125 an end. This is cheaper than I could find a set of Shimano 9020's (£145) which are arguably the direct comparison. RRP for all the XTR seemed to be pretty much the same as for the Hope's. Older 985 and 987 brake were only slightly cheaper. You could argue that a set of XT's would be cheaper and comparable but i'm not sure its a like for like comparison. I'll go with it though and make the assumption I could have spent £100 less. So why did I choose to spend more on the Hope's?

The main reason is things break and wear out. I'm not saying Shimano brakes are less reliable or poorly made but that ham fistedness or lack of skill on my part mean there is a good chance I could break any component. When they do break it is also likely to be at the worst possible moment. For example the bearings on my rear Hope hub wearing out just before a trip to the Alps. Inevitably lax maintenance and poor planning mean I am left with a bearing race seized to the axle with only 48hrs until we leave. A panicked call to hope results in a new axle being dispatched at 3pm on Thursday and arriving at 9am Friday totally free of charge. Or the circuit board on my very well used seven year old lights packing up and again being replaced within 48hrs free of charge. Well out of warranty so above and beyond in my humble opinion.

Customer service seems to have become a bit of cliche with Hope but in my experience their reputation is warranted. It is only my personal opinion but as long as their products are as good or better than competition I can live with paying a bit of a premium. I also feel fairly good about supporting British industry but agin thats just me and opinion will no doubt vary.

Most people i know with Shimano brakes have blown the seals on the m785 stylE lever or caliper.

I dont think its a fair comparison though, Shimano are cheaply made, good brakes. Theyre almost identical in action and feel from their very cheap Deore to the more expensive XTR. My favourite of all the brakes I used from the range were the Slx, they just felt spot on.

My other half's capliper blew a seal (deore) but it last good four years. Now on the new style of Shimanos. We both have SLX and they feel great more importantly when you need stop, you stop!

I couldn't comment on Hopes really, used V4s in the past and thought they were excellent the short time I had them. Bike thief probably thought the same too...