[Closed] Brake checked by a roadie

if I turned around and saw an mtb on my wheel I would die of shame.

😀

No, yes, yes, yes and no. I've happily dragged others over 50k to the finish - doesn't bother me 🙂

genuinely doesn't bother me if folk want to tuck in behind. I'm not going to start with the hand signals though, it'snot like we're riding together, if you can't avoid the crap on the road because you're following me then that's your look out, but you're welcome to sit there.

The only time it bugs me is in a MTB race. In Salzkammergut, there is a long flat section from abou 125 - 150km. I was cruising along and turned around to find 12 guys wheel sucking. I asked someone to come through and they all refused. We got to a small hill and it ended up a race to see who could get to the top the slowest. I eventually lost and and started swearing at people in sentences. Not my finest moment, but on a 211km ride, it is just uncalled for.

Something similar in the Manx End2End. This year was ahead wind, but you cannot find people to work together, everyone just wants to sit on.

Never bothers me people drafting. I just go as fast as I can, leave nothing. If he's still there fair play. At some point one of us will blow up (usually me!).

I'm curious whether the reaction to being drafted depends on your experience? Anybody prepared to answer these questions?
Have you done club runs?
Have you done sportives or audaxes or similar?
Have you done road races and at least finished in the bunch?
Have you had somebody run into you from behind?
Do you get upset at other people drafting you?

Yes
Yes
Yes (and won them 8))
Yes (in a race and training)
Upset, no, annoyed if it is unannounced, yes.

no
yes (1 audax)
no
no
no

All these questions! What we really need to know is was the OP on an e-bike?

Have you done club runs?

Yes

Have you done sportives or audaxes or similar?

Yes

Have you done road races and at least finished in the bunch?

No

Have you had somebody run into you from behind?

Yes, at the start of the Builth 100km races years ago. 500 mountain bikers following a pace car on the roads for a few km. ****ing terrifying it was!!

Do you get upset at other people drafting you?

No.

My own rules are if I catch someone I go past them and offer them a wheel. Some will take it and some wont. If someone or a group passes me I will jump on unless they are obviously far quicker. Never known anyone get offended.
I can see however that on busy roads or stop start commuting people may not like wheel suckers.

Yes
Yes
LOL. Yes.
Yes. Many many times. It's probably my most significant "cause of crash". Pillocks not watching what's going on.
Upset is the wrong word. Nervous. It's one thing getting knocked off in a race on closed roads, but getting punted off by a mobile accident hot spot on a main road isn't my idea of fun.

I'd rather only people I know sat on my wheel and I'll generally only draft people I know. I tend to just start soft pedalling if people sit on my wheel unannounced, they generally get the message.

If you do draught someone it makes them faster, too. Something to do with drag.... I usually ask if it's ok to draught someone unless it's obvious they take themselves too seriously and then they're fair game as far as I'm concerned.

If you draught me, you'll get told to **** off, it's plain stupid to ride close to people you don't know and who doesn't know you're going to do it. .

Not sure what having raced or done club runs has to do with it? The issue isn't whether you're comfortable with draughting, it's whether you're comfortable with it being total randoms that are doing it, when you have no idea what their abilities or judgement is. It'd be like me saying I've done some motorbike racing so it's OK for me to ride up the inside of you on the road in a corner.

Some of the guys I've been out with on road bikes really don't have a clue.
Changing direction suddenly, hitting the brakes for no reason and other foolish stuff.
My last road bike outing was so frustrating I didn't want to see the bike ever again.

Interesting spread of opinions here.

Personally I am quite comfortable with both drafting and being drafted on my solo rides and commutes...
I'll do my turn on the front, if you aren't happy with close quarters riding, I will back off or pass depending on the pace.

I have no illusions about my ability/fitness if someone passes me and stomps off into the distance so be it.

Life is too short to get wound up by such trivial things...

I once drafted someone and he eventually flicked the elbow- he did overtake me first.

I drew level with him so he could see how ****ed i was just drafting then pulled back in behind him. He was fine for the next 5 miles as he tore me a new set of legs as i slowly died.
Saw him a few weeks later and he took the piss.
Fair enough

I dont mind drafting if they bother to talk or at least announce their presence unless its windy in which case do your turn or say you are on a century ride and need a tow/rest for a bit otherwise DO YOUR TURN

CBA.

IMO it's pretty dickish behaviour to brake check someone but then I also dislike unannaounced drafting.
and that's as an experienced club rider / crit racer / MTBer / Virgo / father of 2 / GSOH / VGC / FSH.

Personally I never draft people during day to day riding unless they're clearly game for it. If there's someone up front, I either hang back, or I might ride up alongside and talk to them (which might lead to some drafting), or I just go straight past.

I think it's quite rude to sit on a stranger's wheel. I'll do it in a sportive, an audax, or on a club run, where group riding is generally accepted. But if someone just wants a quiet ride in their own company, it's not up to me to decide otherwise.

And do you even know they brake checked you? Someone who has no experience of group riding may well brake to let you past...

[quote=Northwind ]Not sure what having raced or done club runs has to do with it?

Well have you? Because those who have answered so far all have, and the majority of those aren't worried about other people drafting them. Though I was interested to see whether having done those things made a difference - if it doesn't then fair enough, but we won't know without any data.

I did think that having done racing or sportives where you do get total unknowns drafting you and that's accepted practice was likely to make you more comfortable - though club runs should make you more comfortable about drafting in general whether you're the giver or receiver. Though that's untested theory.

I note that I did my first "club run" for years last week - and I've also not raced or ridden a sportive for years. Though it was my new mixed discipline club's A ride (this being a club with some very good riders), which went at a rather faster pace than runs I've done before, and also on this occasion a group of only 5. Hence I was kind of nervous about my abilities when sitting on a wheel and took a while to settle down - not at all bothered about being on the front where as mentioned above I'm not going to be the one taken down.

All the comments about having to suddenly brake - especially the one about the pheasant flying into the road - all seem a bit strawmanny. Apart from that I've never experienced such a thing whether riding solo or in a group, I can't see how it makes a difference whether you have a known or unknown behind you.

I prefer clear space ahead and behind, but then I prefer to cycle on my own.

aracer - Member

Well have you? Because those who have answered so far all have, and the majority of those aren't worried about other people drafting them

I have, but it's irrelevant- because as I say, it's not how you feel about being draughted in general- it's how you feel about being draughted by some total random. You have no idea what they're thinking, how they're riding, whether they know what position to take or how close to be- whether they have any idea at all about how to ride in a tight group, in other words.

On your club rides, do first-timers turn up and just join in the pack without any briefing, explanation, etc? No. I'm sure the red arrows are very comfortable flying together but if a blue eagle turns up and starts doing star jumps (*), they'll probably be less happy. Let alone some random guy in a Piper.

(* probably not a legit aerobatic move.)

Hey davidtaylforth, remember that time you dropped me on your Ben10? I was giving everything up the east side of coniston on my e-bike when I heard a howling like a hurricane. I though Donald Campbell had risen from the depths and was hunting me down when I began to feel dtf:s shockwave buffeting my rear. Then before you could say "homoerotica" he was upon me. I could feel the heat from his thighs on my face. And then, with an almighty whoosh, leaving me juddering in his backwash, he was gone.
Magnificent

On your club rides, do first-timers turn up and just join in the pack without any briefing, explanation, etc?

I've ridden on group runs where it isn't even explained where we are going, let alone had any briefings etc. Always assumed that if you ride like a d*ck you'll get told pretty quickly to sort it out.

Anyway if you are worried about the quality of riders then ride at the front where you are pretty ammune from their bad riding. As noted previously it is incredibly hard for the drafting rider to take down the leader.

i can't stand it! i often cycle to [i]get away[/i] from other people, not so random idiots can follow 6" behind.

Had it done to me when commuting in towns and cities - wtf!? as if it's not enough having to deal with cars pulling out of junctions and sudden lane changes and so on. the person behind is often just stem-staring.

Even if you're ok with it, surely it's best left for country roads and things when there's much less chance of needing to stop suddenly

I've asked people to get off my tail only to be met with "it's called drafting mate!" and they just stay there.

I'm mocha more concerned by what car and lorry drivers are doing than some random person on a bike behind me who is not affecting me at all.and is unlikely to cause me any major problem even in the unlikely event of him running into the back of me .

dragon - Member

I've ridden on group runs where it isn't even explained where we are going, let alone had any briefings etc. Always assumed that if you ride like a d*ck you'll get told pretty quickly to sort it out.

They don't even explain rotating, hand signs/communicating etc to novices?

Not brake-checking per se, but when following someone on my commute he eventually turned his head around and said angrily "why don't you just overtake me?" - to which I answered that I was just chilling!

I'd have either said the same, slowed to force you to pass or increased the pace. If you were 'just chilling' then there's better places to do it.

I wonder if the reason those who are anti being drafted is the fact they are unpredictable and erratic riders. When being drafted you need to plan ahead, try to be smooth and call out and point to dangers. Obviously this is too much for many here!!

I wonder if the reason those who are anti being drafted is the fact they are unpredictable and erratic riders. When being drafted you need to plan ahead, try to be smooth and call out and point to dangers. Obviously this is too much for many here!!

If you got that close, did you ask him why he did it?

I have, but it's irrelevant- because as I say, it's not how you feel about being draughted in general- it's how you feel about being draughted by some total random. You have no idea what they're thinking, how they're riding, whether they know what position to take or how close to be- whether they have any idea at all about how to ride in a tight group, in other words.

This. For me the usual scenario is that I pass someone who jumps on, so there's a degree of 'scoping' that can happen. If it's a club rider on a nice bike, I'm happy, they'll usually do a turn, and I'll exchange pleasantries. If it's some fat chopper in baggies who's breathing out his arse then I'm going to drop the hammer and get rid of them. The irritation in London being that they'll catch you at the next set of lights (invariably standing behind you at the lights) and then repeat.

I don't always want to have to ride hard, but because I'm doing a longer commute than many I tend to pick up the 5-mile heroes, who can obliterate themselves for 15 minutes. They've got no clue, they see the whole thing as a race, and assume everyone is game for competition. I'd still never brake check them though. I don't want my di2 mech smashed by a nodder!

I began to feel dtf:s shockwave buffeting my rear. Then before you could say "homoerotica" he was upon me. I could feel the heat from his thighs on my face

thestabiliser - Member
Hey davidtaylforth, remember that time you dropped me on your Ben10? I was giving everything up the east side of coniston on my e-bike when I heard a howling like a hurricane. I though Donald Campbell had risen from the depths and was hunting me down when I began to feel dtf:s shockwave buffeting my rear. Then before you could say "homoerotica" he was upon me. I could feel the heat from his thighs on my face. And then, with an almighty whoosh, leaving me juddering in his backwash, he was gone.
Magnificent

😀 Yes, my legs are still sore from the effort....

I wonder if the reason those who are anti being drafted is the fact they are unpredictable and erratic riders. When being drafted you need to plan ahead,

Can't plan for the unexpected deer or squirrel or numpty doing something strange thou. On a commute your commuting not doing a group ride, there's a time and a place for drafting.

Can't plan for the unexpected deer or squirrel

No but in all my years of biking riding I've only seen 3 cyclists hit deer one was on a mtb ride and no other cyclists were downed the other two were on club runs and no other riders got taken out.
I have seen a squirrel get caught up in a mtb, still trying to forget it but no cyclists were hurt.

[quote="anagallis_arvensis"]
I wonder if the reason those who are anti being drafted is the fact they are unpredictable and erratic riders. When being drafted you need to plan ahead, try to be smooth and call out and point to dangers. Obviously this is too much for many here!!That's a hell of an assumption to leap to. And massively inaccurate.
I'm more worried about cretins who don't actually know how to draft. Or when it's safe/sensible to do it.

The club I'm a member of, and don't ride with, is an example of why I got like this.

I guess some peole think it's ok to draft.
Some think it's not ok.
Those who draft will do it irrespective of whether the lead wants it or not.
It's the leads problem for attracting this unwanted attention. 🙄

Those who draft will do it irrespective of whether the lead wants it or not.

OP, are you sure he even knew you were there if you tucked in unannounced?

Facts as I see them. OP caught up with another rider and started riding on his wheel (unannounced?) That rider then braked for reasons unknown (assumed by OP to be a brake check.) Was there a subsequent discussion?

If the rider was in fact brake checking then he's a knob. If the OP slid in behind in stealthy unannounced fashion then he too is a knob.

If you want to ride a couple of inches off someone's back wheel then you do need to ask. You're a group at that point and both riders need to know how to ride accordingly.

Indeed mr blobby. Thats why if I catch someone I go past and see if they want to take a wheel. If so game on. If a rider or group comes past me and I can jump on I will and normally I'll wheeze something at them so they know.

I knew I had the memes for this thread somewhere...

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There you go both basic [i]"pick an argument and be a dick about it"[/i] positions covered in a couple of nice simple illustrations...

Both acted like dicks

What I dont get your fat and lazy if have an ebike. But your fine to make your road ride easier by drafting someone. I only ride on the road to get fitter I'd feel I'd cheated if i got towed along by someone.

I'm not fit by amy means but I have no problem leading with my mates as I'm the fittest in our group and again I see it as good training. But I wouldn't be happy I'd a random stranger pulled in behind me when I'm riding alone as I often do. Ill happily admit I don't have the group riding skills to feel comfortable leading a stranger. Similarly I don't know the rules of kabaddi and don't expect a random stranger to walk up to me in the street and off me a game and expect me to play along.

When drafting road bikes whilst on my fat bike i courteously shout "pedal faster"

Do you have to pick who you draft really really carefully?

anagallis_arvensis - Member

When being drafted you need to plan ahead, try to be smooth and call out and point to dangers.

It's not my job to think for other road users.

But also, if you're putting yourself in a position that you're dependent on a complete stranger calling out and pointing to dangers for you, you shouldn't be on the road, this is basically insane.

Do you have to pick who you draft really really carefully?

It's not my job to think for other road users.

Yeah, how dare you be expected to think!!!

But also, if you're putting yourself in a position that you're dependent on a complete stranger calling out and pointing to dangers for you, you shouldn't be on the road, this is basically insane.

and yet my life still goes on having drafted all sorts of strangers in my time with never an incident or crossed word.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Yeah, how dare you be expected to think!!!

Irony- you are insisting that other people should think for you

If anyone is draughting me I just turn up the power on my e-bike and make them eat my dust!

I expect, well hope, they do it everyday I'm on the roads riding or driving.
Never met a rider yet who complains about a bit od drafting yet STW is full of them. I've also never found myself stressed or running out of processing power when someones on my wheel and I point out hazards and try to ride smoothly. Maybe I'm just not good enough for selfishtrackworld

You're talking about Richmond park here, if you've not cycled around it then it can be an insight! I've seen some very unpredictable behaviour.

1) Fast approaching someone who had moved to the left and was slowing down. I moved to the centre right when suddenly he stuck his right hand out slightly and immediately without looking tried to do a U turn. I had nowhere to go other than into him, we ended up in a tangle in the middle of the road. 🙄
2) Again approaching someone I was about 2/3 metres away when, and I still don't know how he did it to this day, the guy just went over his handlebars and off onto the grass (narrowly missing those wooden stick things at the side of the road). 😯

To add to this there are also lots "weekend warriors" patrolling, who see it fit to barge their way past you in completely inappropriate places to get a decent lap time in at all costs! Also lots of cars which use the park as a shortcut and hate to be kept at 20mph unless there are deer anywhere near the road (within 100m) then 1mph is perfectly acceptable.

All good fun though!

In all seriousness, I'm sure most people on here, regular cyclists, don't mind a bit of drafting.

Let's face it, we all need a tow now and then.
🙂

But it increases risk, not just for you, and not letting on just increases that risk.

And most of the people getting fantasy drafted also drive cars.
Would you say you think most drivers are better or worse than yourself?

Context innit?

OK, time out. A_A, are you actually trolling? I'm starting to feel a bit like I'm just falling for it...

When brake checking doesn't go according to plan....

Honda Civic brake checks Hgv. 😯

I find the arguing in this thread very odd.

The reasons people don't want to be drafted aren't really the point. And whether they lack confidence, think it's dangerous, or just don't feel very sociable, there are many of them. The simple fact is that it's sometimes unwanted. And there seems to be a good proportion of people who think it's socially acceptable to force themselves into their space anyway. Justifying it by pointing out the inadequacies of the people their forcing themselves upon.

Courtesy or respect seem to be alien concepts to some people.

Anyone drafting me today would've ended up in the ditch today - a deer ran out from the right hand hedge. Emergency stop from me so I didn't hit it. Then its partner went too, a couple of seconds behind...

On a club run I'dve been shouting a warning as I know the carnage an emergency stop would cause but if there was a random stranger who'd arrived without telling me, I wouldn't know to warn them and they'd have been a mess. This was Ivinghoe Beacon - on a relatively fast bit of road.

OP - you need to think a bit more about these scenarios before slagging off people

I dont know how youve managed to make 4 pages out ofthe premise that someone on a bike would brake check another rider. You all need to get out more.

Anyone drafting me today would've ended up in the ditch today

Its perfectly possible the following rider could have seen the deer first and stopped before you.

Its just riding a bike, its not that dangerous.

ts perfectly possible the following rider could have seen the deer first and stopped before you.

Likewise, it is perfectly possible they didn't see it. It is very similar to tailgating a car, and is pretty much a potential accident that could be easily avoided.

Tangent here, last couple of cx races I've been drafted on the Tarmac sections and obviously in a race situation don't want to be. what's the best way to break the suckers off? Tried weaving, tried powering off, tried slowing down etc, but then in a big field conscious that slowing down is a bad idea.

Fire some snot rockets, mario kart style.

I guess the obvious tactic should have been to break check them 😆

I will not have someone I don't know drafting me. Its not safe simple as.

I do a bit of road riding on my Hybrid with 32mm tyres, wearing MTB baggy clothing and have hairy legs. If I manage to catch a full on roadie Lord of Lycra type I often sit on their wheel for a while. I find that if I overtake them, their hairless legs cannot help but increase their cadence.
It's as if, in their mind, they should be faster than me and I have insulted their manliness. For that reason I usually sit behind out of some kind of misguided sense of deference.
I will now make a point of saying Hi just to be polite but I do a bit of road riding in Italy on my semi slick shod MTB so the language issue is a problem.

I must admit to grabbing a cheeky draft the other weekend. Feeling a bit boxed, and got overtaken on a long tarmac section by a bloke on a Five. I was shamed into putting some effort in to keep up with him!

last couple of cx races I've been drafted on the Tarmac sections and obviously in a race situation don't want to be. what's the best way to break the suckers off?

Run deliberately wide at the corner beforehand, forcing them to be first onto the tarmac. Sit on their wheel for a bit, then attack...

Cheers David. pretty much what the others did to me I think 😳 😆

every days a learning day 🙂

FWIW in answer to one of the posts up there, i won't take draft from someone i don't know either.........

I do a bit of road riding on my Hybrid with 32mm tyres, wearing MTB baggy clothing and have hairy legs. If I manage to catch a full on roadie Lord of Lycra type I often sit on their wheel for a while. I find that if I overtake them, their hairless legs cannot help but increase their cadence.
It's as if, in their mind, they should be faster than me and I have insulted their manliness. For that reason I usually sit behind out of some kind of misguided sense of deference.
I will now make a point of saying Hi just to be polite but I do a bit of road riding in Italy on my semi slick shod MTB so the language issue is a problem.

or he thought you were returning the favour by doing a turn on the front.

Several posters claim that it is only the drafter that goes down when it goes wrong. It might be the case in race/chain gang / club runs but not necessarily when caught unawares. Last autumn I was out riding into a cross headwind up on Devil's Dyke. I was riding alone and hadn't realised I had picked up a sucker. The road kicked up and with it I took a strong headwind blast. I slowed and this clown ploughs into me sending me flying off the road. He went into a rant blaming my inconsistent riding for the accident. I let him know what I thought of him in my fruitiest Anglo Saxon and how I restrained myself from getting robust with my displeasure is a minor miracle.
So strangers drafting a solo ride - a polite no thanks, glass cranking finally followed by snot rockets to those who don't get the message

Those of you that think its acceptable to daft someone you don't knbow - please answer this. do you leave a safe braking distance in a car? Would you accept a car sitting inches from your rear wheel?

If you answer no to these why is it acceptable for anyopne to sit close to you just because they are on a bike? they dreafter is putting the draftee at risk. i sinmply tell them to stop doing it and if they don't I will slow down until they overtake -

My safety is in my hands and mine alone. I don't let anyonereduce my safe margins

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If you answer no to these why is it acceptable for anyopne to sit close to you just because they are on a bike?

Because its riding a bike its not that dangerous. Also compared to tailgating in a car a drafting cyclist can still have a good view of the road ahead, especially if they ride slightly offset and finally hazards develop slower at 20mph compared to 70mph.

Because its riding a bike its not that dangerous

and it is even less dangerous when some wierdo is not following you inches from your wheel

BTW I am happy drafting random people, but I am generally expecting half a bike length of space - if I feel they are riding too close or I just uncomfortable with them (wobbling, not backing off at hazards, blowing out of their arse) then i'd ask them to back off or something. Likewise I will sit behind other people, but give them a decent amount of space, often I find if I pass somebody who was only going a bit slower than me then they will speed up to pass me then tire and slow down in front of me, etc.

It's a London thing

Not buying it AA. Someone is drafting me I am relied on them being able to see hazards and to brake as quickly as I do with obscured vision. Just for clarity I am talking about on busy streets. I touch my brakes - he hits the back of me and it could hurt, put me under a bus, an asteroid could hit me, all the kittens could die

Why should I take that chance? Sorry but its not happening and I consider anyone who would do this should be dealt with! the green ink must come out!!!

Edit - Different with someone I know and know how they ride
🙂

Just for clarity I am talking about on busy streets