[Closed] BPW yesterday (saturday) accidents!

Only been twice, once last weekend and once two years ago. What surprised me last week was the number of very amateur riders. Nothing against that and great to see it appealing to everyone, but some looked like they didn’t have the skills to navigate the blues (I saw two chaps walking down bits). As such I wonder if that has caused a few more accidents.

Only been twice but seemed to me to have got more difficult I those two years?? May just be that my already mediocre skills have further regressed!! Bonnyville qualifier was horrible!

Quailfiers are there for a reason, if someones walking them then continues on down the trail theres a good chance they are going to come a cropper!

I don't think its become tougher but there should be clear advice to people who haven't been before to start on the blues or even greens before moving up. Although some of the reds are a pretty big step up from the blues and maybe need looking at again.

The newer Reds have definitely been put up a notch since it opened, lots more features. It sort of feels to me like a load of features with some trail joining it up rather than a trail with some features in.

I've never been to BPW although can see that even at regular trail centres there are people riding at speeds and on routes way past their ability, with no actual skill other than the peddaling.

As above, learning and simply having fun can only be applauded but, the number of people with lovely very capable bikes and no idea how to ride them properly vs mountain bike riders with respect (and skill needed) for the trail and a bike seems to be increasing rapidly.

Good bikes are so flattering nowadays that the stupidity and accidents they absorb is immense compared to those of even just 10 years ago. Invariably this means the crashes and offs are getting progressively worse in outcome.

Sorry, this has turned into a bit of a rant, and hope those involved are ok.

Quailfiers are there for a reason, if someones walking them then continues on down the trail theres a good chance they are going to come a cropper!

There are a couple of qualifiers that I’ll walk because I’m not comfortable on them, and they are significantly more difficult than anything else on the trail.

It doesn’t help at BPW that you might have a ridden a trail easily a while ago but when you return it’s full of significant features. (I’m thinking of you, Insufficient Funds! No problems riding it but I was a little surprised when the first drop appeared.)

All of the trails have moved up a notch since they opened but the grading has stayed the same.  Take the Bonneyville qualifier for example, that's a lot bigger than it was originally.  I think it's more there for the black that goes off to the left though as there's nothing even remotely that big on Bonneyville itself.  Some trails have worn in to be harder, others have been deliberately made tougher.  Add in that a lot of new visitors make the mistake of comparing the blue at FOD for example to a BPW blue and you have the opportunity for multiple accidents every day.

I think part of the problem is that BPW is trying to be a halfway house between a trail centre and a DH venue with their grading in between the two.  When they first opened they were adamant they were not a trail centre but they also weren't up to the level the DH riders wanted, places like Cwmcarn, Revolution and Antur were more their thing.  That all changed when they won a few 'Trail Centre of the Year' awards, then they changed to marketing themselves towards everyone of all abilities.  It's great seeing riders of all sexes, ages and abilities there but you can spot the potential accidents a mile off at times.

Was there a couple of weeks ago and some of the riders had no clue

People were stopping on the trail, not pulling to the side to check something out but stood bang in the middle of the trail!!

I agree the qualifiers sometimes don't correspond with the rest of the trail, Cole not Dole has a big'ish drop into it, yet after that its pretty much just rocky no drops or jumps

Think all the reds that have been modified now are classed as Red+

BPW can be a victim of its own success, when i was there it was raining so at lunch everyone headed in doors, the cafe queue went all the back through the bike shop, by the time i was served the burgers were dried up and cold

There was no where to sit as people were reserving tables with their full faces or having one mate wait at the table whilst the rest queued, almost got into an argument with some of them as we had bought food and wanted to sit down yet they insisted on not moving even though they had just joined the queue and we told them we would be done by the time they got their food but they still refused to move their helmets and lone mate

And guess what as we finished our food standing up they returned with their food to the reserved table!!!!

As said above the grading at BPW is off kilter with everywhere else I’m the UK. There’s very little consistency between any of the bike parks or trail centres. What’s within your limits at one will be very easy at another, or complete out of your league at the next.

I had had a big off last year. I’d rode all day within myself, repeated trails to get a feel for each. Then crashed on Sixtapod, on a fast section with no remarkable features. Just the speed.

I spoke to BPW a few weeks later and they admitted that their grading was out of sync with everyone else. The problem is that people turn up and ride basing their ability on other places. There’s no encouragement to walk the tracks first, or be able to pull over and check features out first.

The access to the trails was shown as rudimentary at best when mountain rescue couldn’t get equipment or me out without walking up and down the trail. I’m surprised that they keep getting planning permission to extend, when the amount of accidents is so high. Their risk assessment  as part of the planning must be overlooked or not questioned, but the amount of admissions into A&E and via ambulance is a regular feature.

with no actual skill other than the peddling.

Biking is the new golf, and dare I say it e-bikes adding to this ability for people to get them self's more easily in to difficult situations, although this specific point is not relevant to BPW being an uplift venue..

Not been there for a bout a year now and even then it was with tendon issues in both wrists.

But considering I’m a long time mountain bike with average skill no big jumps but ok on trail stuff i can nail it at pace at most trail centres ok.

I do find the grading to be kinda out of whack.

I find reds pretty tec now so tend to stick to the blues and just nail them and there flowie goodness! And just pop on a few red sections as and when I feel the urge during the day.

Gotta say though bang for your buck the blues are great😉 do all the blues multiple times in a day!  and you’ve probably done 20plus miles of DH trail riding easily

I wonder how much it costs the local hospitals to keep patching people up.

I do find the grading to be kinda out of whack

Grading should be taken as comparison for that venue only, rather than at a national or international level. If people are saying that BPW trails are harder than other trails centres of same grading then should all BPW trails be marked as black ? Then what about Revs or somewhere?

but the sunshine must’ve got to a few people,

From chatting to the guides at BPW, when its bone dry there it becomes slippery due to a layer of fine dust on the rocks, its grippier when damp & the dusts been washed away.

mountain rescue couldn’t get equipment or me out without walking up and down the trail.

To be fair to BPW, you've chosen to ride a tech singletrack trail, your never going to get a 4WD / Polaris vehicle down it, the access & egress to you will be via the nearest fire road, this is the same as all other centres. Unless you want to just session a fire road this will always be the case, your not gonna get winched out by a sea king. Be prepared for a long wait & be thankful that an unpaid volunteer offered to come and carry you out.

After witnessing the 417 Projects ineptitude at dealing with a broken rider mid way up the hill (they were VERY reluctant to allow the ambo in to the uplift loading circle as they wanted to keep riders riding), i spoke with one of the uplift drivers at BPW about their casualty access & egress and to his credit he seemed pretty switched on about it.

Their risk assessment  as part of the planning must be overlooked or not questioned

Risk assessments a two way thing, them as BPW & you as a rider. The fact they got you extricated is a testament to theirs working.

oldnpastit - there was a study somewhere that concluded that even in high risk sports like surfing and mountain biking the health benefits of being active outweigh the occasional injury.  I know someone who works in A&E at Prince Charles Hospital and he would take 20 injured BPW visitors every shift over a local drunk or drug user, we tend to not fight back!

<div class="bbp-reply-author">darrenspink
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Quailfiers are there for a reason, if someones walking them then continues on down the trail theres a good chance they are going to come a cropper!

If they're good qualifiers. BPW's qualis are mostly shit and unrepresentative of the trail, I've no issues with ignoring them.

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I think the new trails' unpredictable nature could catch out even good riders that are used to BPW, there's not much in the way of forewarning or progression on them, it's just kind of feature, then some different feature, all different sizes and sometimes pretty unsighted. Personally I don't mind that  but it's so unlike the other trails that it probably catches people out all the time.

The other thing they do is change trails without signposting it. Popti suddenly aquired 2 much bigger, much steeper jumps this year and it's after a long series of gradually increasing tables that really anyone can ride any way. Not clever. They're good jumps but it's pretty much an ambush.

I love bpw and I love the trails but imo their build thought processes are not good.

Part of it is just the relentless fun is very draining, and the speed pick up is very quick. At most trail centres if you get five minutes of fun you’re lucky, then it’s a nice ride before the next nerve jangler. At BPW, it took a while to get used to concentrating for fifteen minutes at a time. I bloody love it. Had a couple of tank slappers when I dipped my toe in the red trails, but enjoyed it all the same.

I reckon BPW have got their trail grading right.

I know the majority of other UK trail centres, the typical FC one's I've been to. Blacks and reds, which are supposed to be difficult and technical, are way too risk averse with minimal features that just don't compare to Canadian and European bike parks. You can tell they have been built with LA oversight, erring toward idiot proofing, rather than delivering the features the grading suggests. Some have had more difficult features erased due to the amount of accidents!

There's definitely a problem with interpretation and consistency, particularity with older neglected trail centres and the FC's overzealous use of black rated trails which are nothing of the sort.

Now I'm not expecting people to agree with me but I think trails graded advanced/technical should have features inline with the rating, i.e. the blacks should be bloody difficult, with an expectation of drops and/or jumps, aimed squarely at experienced bike handlers.

Accidents are going to happen, it's a risky sport/hobby. How you stop delusional numpties and chest bumping chimps ruining it for everyone else I don't know!

Totally agree that grading is bollocks tbh. But equally if you do your grading out of line with what everyone else is used to, even if yours is more accurate, that's problematic too. I think BPW have it mostly right, especially the way they've tried to divide into jumpy and techy, that's so useful to a one-day visitor.

I ended up in Merthyr A&E dept after an off! I can’t speak highly enough of the staff, they were so helpful and friendly. Bring a medical man myself I ended up chatting to the staff and it turns out they really don’t mind the mountain bikers. It’s more rewarding for them to treat polite people with obvious injuries that are easily sorted and diagnosed than drunks with complex problems.

I came off on an easy bit of trail after being so pleased I landed a jump. No idea what happend - survived the jump and the found myself heading towards the hillside on a flat bit of trail!

i did think there was a big jump from the blues to the reds. As a solid trail rider happy with Glentress/Coed Y Brenin etc reds I loved the blues but the reds were much harder.

I think the grading at BPW is pretty accurate:

Clear split into Flow Vs Tech and colour grading based on difficulty, with vids of each trail easily available. It matches most of EU / US. Red and black are meant to be hard right?

IMI it’s other U.K. trail centres that have it wrong, grading red and black based on length. E.g Swinley / Bedgebury reds are clearly not red and their blues should be green.

I saw many people heading way too fast into corners with bad line which will take you out on a blue or black the same.

I think the grading at BPW is pretty accurate

I'd  agree with this.

At the simplest level, Green = Beginner, Blue = Intermediate, Red = Advanced, Black = Expert. On that basis you should expect some manageable drops on red runs. While the quali at the start of Bonneville isn't representative of the rest of the trail, it looks worse than it is, IMO.

I hope everyone who had a prang is OK.

I think the trails at BPW are fab. Loving the new red+ stuff. I think it is helping to advance the riding skills of regular visitors. I don't think that the grading is off I just think that some people who have been riding for ages aren't that bothered about learning new skills. Some of us and the kids who are bringing on the next generation certainly are.

Lots of my mates just like to ride which is great. Good luck to them, they are super fit and can ride all day. My kids like to session jumps and practice technique down the skate park. Guess who has better skills?

I did visit over the summer though and over-crowding was certainly an issue. they are planning to upgrade their facilities and it can't come too soon. The parking is over-full, the cafe was running out of lots of things including seating but this is just because they were too good.

On the health and safety thing, I did see quite a few people learning the benefit of body armour and elbow pads the hard way on the last couple of visits too.

i did think there was a big jump from the blues to the reds.

From Melted Welly to Root Maneuvers yes, from Sixtapod to Wibbly Wobbly or Surfin Bird not so much.

I think BPW grading works well, just don't expect it to be translate to exactly the same difficulty as elsewhere. There will always be a breadth of trails within a colour/grade, and BPW provide a handy scale ordering the trails by difficulty, not just colour, so you can make informed choices on how much you want to step up the difficulty when choosing which trail to ride.

It would be interesting to see accident statistics against each trail. I expect the blues would top the list with both inexperienced riders and experienced rider pushing the speed.

Lot of presumption on this thread!

I think the grading is great - they even tell you which are the techy trails, or flowy trails.

I’m red standard, but crashed and ended up in a&e on a blue, just a moment of carelessness. Chatting to a fella at work who did the same, properly smashed himself up near the bottom of a blue. Had to be ambulanced to Merthyr and spent 7 hours! Luckily i just hurt ribs and didn’t have to wait.

Crashes can happen in the most innocuous ways, to decent riders.

BPW grading is great as are the choice of trails.

If you charge down ANY trail without checking it out first run eg slowing down/stopping and having a proper look you are asking for trouble

Even if you thnik you know it well it is likely to wear and change or just be rebuilt here and there.

I hope all the casualties make a full recovery.

 dare I say it e-bikes adding to this ability for people to get them self’s more easily in to difficult situations, although this specific point is not relevant to BPW being an uplift venue..

So why post that shit then...

As for grading there.

This seems a pretty good guide  to me.

Cant think of any more comprehensive guides at any UK trail destination.

Take some responsibility for your self's kids.

I'm more of a fan of the guide at Ffestiniog.

First time we went the guy at the signing on desk gave us the "rules"

Reds are ok with a trail helmet, blacks you can't ride without a fullface.

Though when you get out the bus there's no one to stop you riding whatever you like wearing whatever you like.

Set the tone for a brilliant first time there perfectly.

So we're home after another great weekend in Wales. Been over to cwmcarn today and had a good peddle out there before heading home. There's a few tasty jumps and drops there for sure.

My lad who is 13 and riding my 7 year old spesh xc has pretty much shown quite a few of the big misters a thing or two this weekend. However.... if there's a new trail we haven't rode before above a blue grade, roots being one of them this weekend,  I ride up front and shout back what's coming up, whether he can roll it whether he needs to commit and take the jump etc etc, works well for us and I think that kind of approach is great.

A470 (we've rode it a few times) however was next level this time with him cleaning every single jump to land on the down, I was so so proud!

We'd be back tomorrow if it wasn't for school and work!

Just use your eyes and experience. Jeez! Does everyone need to be spoon fed these days.

I think generally they get it right., Deep Navigation isn't really a black, and Inefficient Funds really should be black, not red probably, apart from that, some of the newly built bigger stuff on A470 was a bit of surprise, but still manageable, hadn't realised the quali on Bonnieville was any bigger though, which goes to show how much attention I'm paying to it all.

I was there on Friday on a 100mm hardtail and an xc lid. I ride within my limits (sort of) as I wasn't familiar with the trails at all. I thought the place was amazing. Loved every minute of it. The only problem I had was when somebody randomly stopped dead mid trail and mid flow.! Other than that it was all gravy.

One thing I will add is that I like to think I'm above average on a MTB, not massively but I've been at it for many years, I'm also a fairly fit roadie but towards the end of the day I was feeling knackered. Eight runs into the day and I was cooked and things were getting a bit slopy. Does fatigue have a part to play with the accidents.?

Yup, I'd say fatigue is probably the main cause of accidents there, along with overconfidence caused by big bikes + body armour and full faces.

Last time I was there I managed 12 runs, and the last one especially I was knackered. Fell off on a very innocuous corner on one of the reds. No serious injury luckily, but could have been a lot worse.

Had a bit of a chuckle when i read that folks think BPW has techy trails. what on earth do you regularly ride to think that??

what on earth do you regularly ride to think that??

Ridgeway 🙂

BPW is like Alton towers to riders like me 🙂

I was there on Sunday. Didn't see any serious accidents but did see a few people who had skinned elbows and knees etc. Not sure why people ride without pads there as some of those trails have a seriously tough based with plenty of rock in it to abrade your skin.

I'd also agree with the point about the dust making it slippery - I've ridden there in the snow and had more grip that on some sunny dusty days although that could be down to tyre choice.

BPW do always post new videos on YouTube when they rework the trails and I always make sure I watch them before going to see what has changed. It's saved me from a few unpleasant occurrences I'm sure. I can ride the blues no problem, red (and some of the black) tech trails but tend to avoid the + trails as I'm not that great at jumping so I ride to my strengths as I'm there to have fun not damage myself but then I'm heading rapidly towards 50 so it takes a long time to recover from anything.

And yes, fatigue is probably the biggest cause of offs there - as soon as I find myself making multiple mistakes per run with near offs I take a rest or call it a day.

b45her

Had a bit of a chuckle when i read that folks think BPW has techy trails. what on earth do you regularly ride to think that??

Oh MY GOD! This person is HOT SEX personified. Please be my lover before I SWOON to my death.

I think it should be graded differently to other trail centres because it is very different.

1.Its the only one where you dont have to pedal uphill so you spend all day blasting downhill which is great fun but does require alot more concentration. Whilst I enjoy trail centres you only really have to concentrate for 2 or 3 minutes on each of the descents. the rest of the time you are pedaling round

2. Its the only one where you are out all day, When was the last time you set off riding a trail centre at 9am and gave up at 4 /5 pm? Most take 2 -4 hours to get round

3. Its the only trail centre I know of in the UK where most riders are in full face helments and wearing alot more body armour than they would at any other trail centre. This is a good thing but it shows that most riders think its harder and has a higher risk of a crash

Had a bit of a chuckle when i read that folks think BPW has techy trails. what on earth do you regularly ride to think that??

Jesus what is it about this forum that brings out the boring elitists every time BPW is mentioned?

Yep, the difficulty chart is good - between that and all the signage there's no excuses for thinking you can manage a Thetford red and ending up launching yourself off the side of Insufficient Funds. I think some people feel they have to try a red or black though and can come unstuck - at least that chart points them at the easier ones now.

Some of the qualifiers have changed - Dai Hard gap jump is gone now for instance.

We tend to go on a Friday and I can't say I've seen many accidents. You do get the odd stag (pre) party riding though with some of the group wobbling away on hire bikes but they all seem to make it down the blues and have a good time. Fatigue definitely a factor though - my mate's only BPW injury was catching his bars on the fence by the uplift circle and putting his shoulder out falling down the hill!

Had a bit of a chuckle when i read that folks think BPW has techy trails. what on earth do you regularly ride to think that??

Well anything's technical if you go fast enough, so I think this guy is just slow and expects the trails to entertain him whilst he sits on his bike and trundles about.

I went Cody over 15 years ago. i rode stuff that was outside my comfort zone as "it must be doable as someone has actually built this rather than nature throwing up an obstacle."

There was a taped off area as I think someone had died a week before.

I guess in this health and safety culture we expect  to be shielded from danger.

1.Its the only one where you dont have to pedal uphill so you spend all day blasting downhill which is great fun but does require alot more concentration. Whilst I enjoy trail centres you only really have to concentrate for 2 or 3 minutes on each of the descents. the rest of the time you are pedaling round

2. Its the only one where you are out all day, When was the last time you set off riding a trail centre at 9am and gave up at 4 /5 pm? Most take 2 -4 hours to get round

Other than all the rest ?

3. Its the only trail centre I know of in the UK where most riders are in full face helments and wearing alot more body armour than they would at any other trail centre. This is a good thing but it shows that most riders think its harder and has a higher risk of a crash

That's because most riders are riding the uplift .. most people on most uplifts are wearing a FF and more armour in my experience...  if I'm going to ride up vs push-up vs shuttle ... I stuck body armour and a FF on yesterday for a day's pushup but I'd have ridden the same without had I been riding up.

Cannop might have a lot of people in the car-park but most people on the uplift are wearing a FF

After that BPW is rock.... vs say Cannop where its mostly loam and roots...

its not the bad grading or the ambulances tha bother me

 by the time i was served the burgers were dried up and cold

its always like this, the service & food are pants ime, llandegla, now thats got a good cafe!

yes I know its not a restaurant, but I liek what I like

Saw somebody pushing over the qualifier at Insufficient funds, claimed he didn't have the speed  to clear it from where he started, explained that he should of pushed up to a better position to roll into it. Gave him a gap, caught him up a few drops down the trail, he then proceeded to haul on the anchors right at the lip of one of the drops, muppet!

@Sir HC. I saw one chap lift his sons balance bike down the qualifier on Vicious Valley once. An easy enough trail on a full sized bike I’d imagine it’s terrifying in a balance bike

Went for the first time last Monday with a few mates - one broken wrist later..

Our problem was that we’d taken Melted Welly down to the road only to find that both of the blues that we could have taken to the bottom were shut and we were left with a black or two reds to chose from.  Having never ridden it before, the reds (even the easier ones) are quite a step up from blue and a bit too much for an experienced rider on a 100mm hard-tail.

I've not been to BPW but I had a hell of a shock when I visited another trail centre after starting out on Bedgebury and Swinley reds.

Consistent grading would be nice, or at least a clear guide on what to expect - looks like BPW at least has the latter.

Our problem was that we’d taken Melted Welly down to the road only to find that both of the blues that we could have taken to the bottom were shut and we were left with a black or two reds to chose from.  Having never ridden it before, the reds (even the easier ones) are quite a step up from blue and a bit too much for an experienced rider on a 100mm hard-tail.

That seems a little unreasonable !

some of BPW is built a bit funny and doesnt link very well which would cause problems.

ACDC has hips which are fine except on the first or second run where you arnt sure wether to go off the lip on an angle or go straight. if you go slow you case like hell so you have to send it but i`ve had some 'oh shit i need to be 10ft left' moments or 'oh shit im landing 1/2 way around a berm'

or the large vert lip int eh mddle of the a470 which, in order to hit the landing you need to get into orbit and proper nose it in BMX style, which is fine but i can never remember which jump it is as i dont go very often. and im not sure id be that keen to go that nuts in the wet/wind.

i find most of the flow trails just a bit odd really.

the more natural type ones are much much better then the jumpy ones.

To be fair on Sunday they had a sign at the top of Bonneville/Surfin Bird (and also at the top of Blue Belle which is shut) telling people how to get to Willy Waver so that they could do a blue. No idea if it was there before but perhaps they put it up in response to concerns.

The grading at BPW is pretty self explanatory, and TBH compared to all the other trail centres it makes the most sense. Nearly all the nasty slams I've seen have been due to over confidence and tiredness. Full face + pads = indestructible... Until you get tired & catch a pedal on a tree stump going mach 5 on Willy Waver.

Part of me is surprised they haven't looked at putting a small cafe / rest stop at the top of the uplift (yes, I appreciate the cost and lack of infrastructure...) so rather than forcing all riders down to the reception / shop for a break, you could spend it on-the-hill so to speak.  It might cut back on the knackered riders falling on their last run before lunch / end of the day.

not a bad idea at all Jack. Even if just a snack hut etc.

Nice thought but I suspect water and power would be an issue. Maybe a mobile van though, so it's self sufficient for that.

Well there's enough busses etc going to to carry a bit of fuel for a Gennie or a gas system for hot water etc... So i rekon it could be viable....

People would whinge about things being more expensive at the top of the hill than the bottom.

for most of teh time i've been there the top of the hilll is the last place i'd want to hang out!

that said they probably make a killing in cans of coke/bottled water in a kiosk at teh uplift queue

To be fair on Sunday they had a sign at the top of Bonneville/Surfin Bird (and also at the top of Blue Belle which is shut) telling people how to get to Willy Waver so that they could do a blue. No idea if it was there before but perhaps they put it up in response to concerns.

That's the one... we were there the Monday before and there wasn't any sign I could see... ended up going down Surfin' Bird which is where he came off.

If I'd realised quite how big the jump from flow blue to tech red was we'd have probably spent longer with the map and worked out a more sensible route down.

@meesterbond. Where did your mate crash on Surfin Bird? I can imagine the surface being fairly unforgiving for most of it.

I couldn't believe the amount of people pushing their bikes over the qualifiers.  I'm not sure what must be going through your head to think it's a good idea!  Even on rollable drops like wibbly wobbly.  If you can't even roll off a small drop then don't ride a red.  The worst I saw was a group of 4 riders entering coal not dole.  3 carried their bikes down the 2 rock drops and the last one just rolled off as though it was a curb.  I thought it was game over for him but somehow he managed to save himself from going otb.  Complete stupidity but maybe it's because groups tend to head to bpw as a bit of an event and egg each other on, or get carried away seeing much better riders head off down harder trails or hitting big features.

Complete stupidity but maybe it’s because groups tend to head to bpw as a bit of an event and egg each other on, or get carried away seeing much better riders head off down harder trails or hitting big features.

lots of this....I was at BPW few weeks ago and rode back round to ride the A470 jumps, jesus christ it was terrifying to watch some people go through just the top section!

Please take a video of it next time, sounds great 🙂

@meesterbond. Where did your mate crash on Surfin Bird? I can imagine the surface being fairly unforgiving for most of it.

Not sure exactly, I was a little way ahead.

From memory there were a couple of short, sharp rocky slopes - I think his front wheel got a bit a caught up in the rocks and he went over the bars, used his left hand to break his fall.  I don't think it was a particularly big fall, he didn't even realise it was broken until it started to swell up and he was advised to get it checked out.

More annoying for him was it was the first run of the day!

A470 jumps, jesus christ it was terrifying to watch some people go through just the top section

i`ve sat in the same spot and crapped myself watching riders neary die. the jumps just arnt easy mtb flyoffs which definately have teh capacity to scupper those with bikes that flatter their abilities rather than abilities that flatter them.

this is a prblem where you cant session a section or you`ve forgotten whats coming and someone puts a random steep lip in an otherwise fairly flowy trail.

I`m no ridign god so someone watching me is probably crapping themselves!

Complete stupidity but maybe it’s because groups tend to head to bpw as a bit of an event and egg each other on, or get carried away seeing much better riders head off down harder trails or hitting big features.

The other reason is that folk have paid quite a lot to be uplifted for a day, and feel they need to eke out every possible run in the timespan to get value, hence pushing hard without a proper rest when they should probably stop at 2pm and have a lie down. And also feel that they need to be getting faster as the day goes on and they get used to the place.

Normally, your climbing legs tend to be your limiting factor when deciding when to call it a day.

The other reason is that folk have paid quite a lot to be uplifted for a day, and feel they need to eke out every possible run in the timespan to get value, hence pushing hard without a proper rest when they should probably stop at 2pm and have a lie down. And also feel that they need to be getting faster as the day goes on and they get used to the place.

Agreed. Having been a few times now, I tend to start with a couple of easier runs to warm up, then ramp up towards the harder stuff by mid to late morning while I'm still physically fresh. After a little lunch break I'll hit progressively easier and flowy runs as my arms tire, finishing with Melted Wellie, Blue Belle and Bushwacker back to the visitors centre and a chill out before hitting the road home.

3 carried their bikes down the 2 rock drops and the last one just rolled off as though it was a curb.

.

caught him up a few drops down the trail, he then proceeded to haul on the anchors right at the lip of one of the drops, muppet!

In 2017 both of these could have been me. I used to roll the first and drop the second with use of bash guard on coal not dole; and my first go down insufficient i chickened out of a couple, looked at them, realized they were much smaller than they looked, and pushed back up a bit to do it. made sure there was nobody behind me before I started though.

2018 I can do them both.

Must be nice to be born with riding skill, but then I've had the pleasure of seeing myself improve.

I couldn’t believe the amount of people pushing their bikes over the qualifiers.  I’m not sure what must be going through your head to think it’s a good idea!

Well presumably they rode other places with Reds and Blues.... and have an expectation of what that means?

has hips which are fine except on the first or second run where you arnt sure wether to go off the lip on an angle or go straight. if you go slow you case like hell so you have to send it but i`ve had some ‘oh shit i need to be 10ft left’ moments or ‘oh shit im landing 1/2 way around a berm’

which is why I like the double grading system for something with jumps...

Lots of people ride manicured 'jumps' who wouldn't make it 10' on a 'technical run' and visa versa... You can ride DJ without brakes or aggressive tyres but the two are not necessarily the same thing.

I quite like the blue/red/black on a gnarlyness scale and the dots for jumping requirements.

Even if the whole trail is within my skill level its once to know if I'm going to have to do a hip or nose dive in before I'm actually in the air doing it... vs just hitting something gnarly...

e.g. I was on a black / 1 dot yesterday ..(Rogate). meaning it was pretty techy but the man made jumps were actually simple table tops... whereas you could have a blue 3 dot meaning it's smooth as a babies bum except for some big hip gap jumps

I do have to agree with some of the "out of depth" comments. Acdc is one run in my book where the slightest hesitation could end in a big heap for riders who "ride red" elsewhere, we'd not ridden it before saturday and my lad trusts me to guide him from the front but he knows that speed is your friend on trails like that.

I do think there could be a better intro for newer riders, perhaps offer a ten minute briefing pre signing up, because as it is with the queue so big on a Saturday they just shunt you through without a care other than "have you signed the disclaimer"

As for a cafe at the top what is it with hanging around up there? We get off the bus and just want to hit a run down, some folk look like they've been up there 20 mins just gassing away, so a mobile  cafe in my book would do a roaring trade!

Nah. Folks who hang around at the top wouldn’t use a cafe unless it was sited in the way of at least half the trail heads I reckon.

<div class="bbp-reply-author">"calv145
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I couldn’t believe the amount of people pushing their bikes over the qualifiers.  I’m not sure what must be going through your head to think it’s a good idea!"

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Simple, BPW is bad at qualifiers, most of them don't relate to the trail. So once you discover that frinstance Vicious Valley's qualifier is the only feature on the whole trail that's anything like vicious valley's qualifier, of course you ignore it. And once you've done that for one qualifier it undermines them all. It's the inevitable result of shit trailbuilding decisions. Especially  on VV where you'd be turning people away from such a big part of the park.

For a qualifier to work it's got to be relevant, there's no point putting a double jump at the top of a trail with no real jumps like Dai Hard, or a woodwork drop at the top of VV. (I think Coal Not Doal's a bit different- there's really nothing else on the trail at all like the entrance but the entrance is a big enough part of the trail in its own right)

I love BPW but this, they got wrong.

Biking is the new golf, and dare I say it e-bikes adding to this ability for people to get them self’s more easily in to difficult situations, although this specific point is not relevant to BPW being an uplift venue..

Yup, and....

I’ve never been to BPW although can see that even at regular trail centres there are people riding at speeds and on routes way past their ability, with no actual skill other than the peddaling.

As above, learning and simply having fun can only be applauded but, the number of people with lovely very capable bikes and no idea how to ride them properly

Had the same thought the other day whilst sitting for lunch in Finale.

The number of over weight people on eBikes, fully tooled up space troopers on their blinged bikes or couples in partner-look (matching outfits - gb down to the shoes and colour coordinated Evoc packs, oh and his and hers bikes).... Knowing that their bikes are never going to get used anywhere near their full potential.

Went to watch the practice on DH Men in Friday. After practice there were a few people riding down and then a group of six German guys. We were stood near a small rocky drop and started chanting "jump jump jump jump!" and this guy who had stopped nearly had a melt down. ... "hey Leute! Lass es sein! Hör auf!" ..... And this was up top, not the tricky section after the pylon. Needless to say he and his friends proceeded to push /carry their bikes down.

Saw the same again today.

I've been once a year since it opened and I think the grading system is good.

But, we rode AC/DC and Watts Occurring this time and while we rode every bit of them we didn't do them justice. We weren't hitting them fast enough to hit the landings.

Rather than being downhearted I've realised that it just means I need to improve my jumping technique (not a natural thing when approaching 48). If you have grown up riding FC trail centres then this new school stuff is a step up (literally) and that's surely a good thing.

Agree about the fatigue, I usually do 10 then call it quits. I always missed the last session track days too.

Some of the qualifiers have changed – Dai Hard gap jump is gone now for instance.

I used to be able to do Dai Hard before the qualifier was added. Not brilliantly, but a trail I could learn technique on.

Not been since Bonneville qualifier was upgraded but unless that trail has had big drops added I don't remember anything needing those skills. Just the steep switchback that was shitty when wet.

Problem with the qualifiers is it assumes lack of one ability equals lack of all others. Some people just don't do big drops or gap jumps, but are perfectly competent at steep rocky technical trails. Another thing is I find I have issues with slow run ups to blind drops, but okay with ones that come up mid trail with clear sight of landings on a fast trail. With speed and flow features become less daunting.

Some people just don’t do big drops or gap jumps, but are perfectly competent at steep rocky technical trails.

You’ve described me. 😁 It would be difficult to ride anywhere in South Wales if you weren’t comfortable on steep tech stuff, but I can’t jump and am not happy on big drops.

The number of over weight people on eBikes, fully tooled up space troopers on their blinged bikes or couples in partner-look (matching outfits – gb down to the shoes and colour coordinated Evoc packs, oh and his and hers bikes)…. Knowing that their bikes are never going to get used anywhere near their full potential.

Went to watch the practice on DH Men in Friday. After practice there were a few people riding down and then a group of six German guys. We were stood near a small rocky drop and started chanting “jump jump jump jump!” and this guy who had stopped nearly had a melt down. … “hey Leute! Lass es sein! Hör auf!” ….. And this was up top, not the tricky section after the pylon. Needless to say he and his friends proceeded to push /carry their bikes down

You sound amazing!

Well presumably they rode other places with Reds and Blues…. and have an expectation of what that means?

I imagine a fair few have actually only every ridden Swinley (being one of the closest trail centres to high population dense areas), therefore their expectations will be somewhat skewed. A red at Swinley doesn't compare to anything at BPW, let alone A417 or FOD. Possibly only the pushup trail..

I was at A417 at the weekend, and the number of people with absolutly zero clue ready to launch into the Red and Black was scary. I followed a couple guys that crashed infront of me on what appeared to be notthing wearing just a helmet. I also saw 4 people pushing up the trails at various points. I've had the same experience at the other trail centres.

I know people need to start somewhere and it must be really difficult for the uplift centres to vet the riders, but there must be some way of educating riders.

I'm deperate to go, but the drive puts me off. And tbh TINAS doesn't like me driving 8 hours to do something eco friendly, so it's a no from Me...

Went to Revolution earlier this year, and the prep chat at the top was basic, but deadly serious. "Start small, and take everything really easy as the nearest hospital is over an hour away, and it will take an ambulance nearly an hour to get here"

It worked too...!

If you think the grading is off at BPW, wait till you get out to the Alps. The blues are as technical as BPW reds.