[Closed] Bogtrotters ride the Ben on a bank holiday!

Bloody stupid to ride it when it's so busy. Too close to too many walkers. Early morn/late eve only on The Ben IMO.
BUT,....

awesome water bar hopping skilz!

jojoA1 - Member
Bloody stupid to ride it when it's so busy. Too close to too many walkers. Early morn/late eve only on The Ben IMO.

Regardless of who should be giving way, I think it's irresponsible to be either riding off the path, or forcing others over the edges of the path. If there's not comfortably space for both (and there isn't on this particular path in places), the bike shouldn't be there.

A sunny bank holiday is not the time to be riding the pony track on Ben Nevis tbh, although I can see why you would if you didn't know just how busy it gets.
Actually, no I can't... there are much better places to go in that area!

edit- Too slow, discussion seems to have moved on. Ermm. YAY for football and odd youtube videos.

And, to further defuse the TJ/SFB standoff...

Just like lager louts in marbella acting like its manchester on a friday night

Druidh - I still fail to see what this has to do with anything other than lazy stereotyping of English people. Mind you I expect you are too addled on Irn Bru and deep fried butter to notice.

Mmmmmmmm....deep fried butter... 😛

If it's awesome enough smaller ones make way.

The CMD Arete has a lot of appeal.

😆

Why on earth would you want to ride it with so many Walkers afoot? Doesn't look like fun at all for me just an exercise in risk taking. I'm all for cheeky riding as I think all trails are fair game both sides of the border, but I'd be too worried about hitting a walker on a trail that busy to enjoy it.

Still good to see TJ and SFB slugging out like the good ol' days. Shame wee Elfin isn't here to be snapping at their ankles as well 😀

Just looks awful doesn't it? All that effort and the descent gets ruined by all the walkers. I'm not entirely sure that too many walkers would have been upset, offended or whatever, and the riders seemed to ride fairly responsibly in the main. But it just looked crap didn't it and it looks like it would be a decent descent if you got a good run at it too.

Not sure it's worth getting overly emotional about, but that's up to you.

I'm half scottish does that count? i don't see why being english has anything to do with it.

in reality scottish people go on about how they have open access but the fact is you seem more shackled than people who ride in england and wales. at least we have laws saying you can't ride that and if you do you can be prosecuted. plain, simple and easy. In scotland you can ride anywhere but if we don't like the cut of your gib then you lose the right and will be prosecuted.

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/dodgy-classifieds ]Its still going on n on n on……… [/url]

might as well ask what tyres for a busy descent of Ben Nevis?

looks pretty selfish and an awesome blow to the image of MTBing

cheers lads

[img] [/img]

no this is a blow to mountain biking

[img] [/img]

Funny,my first thought was Jet Ski. You know the type,busy harbour or beach,with the odd chance of some Dolphin bothering.Look at me,look at me,look at me on my fast jet ski. Please look at me. Never too far from shore,never giving toss about anyone or anything else.Well done bogmincers

You do have to wonder if part of the point is precisely because there are so many people around so maximum attention/willy-waving potential.

having watched the video, it doesn't look much fun, but then I wouldn't have wanted to do it in the first place, for a start there were no female riders and you know I'm suspicious of single sex groups...

philfive - Member

is you seem more shackled than people who ride in england and wales. at least we have laws saying you can't ride that and if you do you can be prosecuted. plain, simple and easy. In scotland you can ride anywhere but if we don't like the cut of your gib then you lose the right and will be prosecuted.

Not at all - its a duty to be reasonable - something that is tricky for many of us 🙂 In exchange for being reasonable you get the right t ride anywhere

grum - Member

You do have to wonder if part of the point is precisely because there are so many people around so maximum attention/willy-waving potential.

[img] [/img]

Not at all - its a duty to be reasonable

if, as has been claimed, they didn't have a right of way due to their behaviour, what are the consequences ? Would I be right in concluding none whatsoever beyond an outraged tonguelashing on various forums ?

To them as individuals - effectively no sanction however that is not the point. Why do you need threat of punishment to behave in a reasonable and responsible manner? Most of us don't find it hard to behave like this.

Its a part of the ethos here and a happy exchange for the widespread access we have.

[i]we have laws saying you can't ride that and if you do you can be prosecuted[/i]

Not in general we don't, even in England 🙂

Why do you need threat of punishment to behave in a reasonable and responsible manner?

I suspect they thought they [b]were [/b]acting in such a manner, they're all incredibly nice (if a bit dim)

So the 'code' referred to is more of an aspirational document ?

we have laws saying you can't ride that and if you do you can be prosecuted

[b]can[/b] be prosecuted in some areas where a byelaw applies, though interestingly, in Lancashire the full penalty is to be excluded from the area in question for a period of 3 days - which always happens anyway. But in practice no prosecutions ever take place because only a tiny minority care and most of the violations go undetected.

double post deleted

NO - try reading it or posts from folk who have.

druidh - Member

That's from the Scottish Outdoor Access Code, a document which was drawn at the request of the Scottish Government up to outline what was and wasn't considered to be responsible access as defined by the Land Reform(Scotland) Act - i.e. it carries significant legal weight.

Nothing aspirational about it. Its how you are required to behave in order to enjoy your access rights

Its how you are required to behave in order to enjoy your access rights

but if you don't nothing will change ? Or do you mean if you don't comply you won't enjoy it ?

just watched it and what a set of ****s.
I wonder how they would react if a bunch of lads on motocross bikes roosted them and forced them off a trail at speed.

I wonder how they would react if a bunch of lads on motocross bikes roosted them and forced them off a trail at speed.

that *would* be illegal! I get rocks thrown at me by passing motocrossers' tyres about once every 3 years and I kinda tut and forget about it.

I get rocks thrown at me by passing motocrossers' tyres about once every 3 years and I kinda tut and forget about it.

a percentage of the constipated walkers in the video will be slagging off MTBers for years to come as a result of that stunt..

Well I for one am outraged 😐

Nice to see TJ being so obedient to codes 😆
what next, stopping at red lights and repenting his wanton disregrad for national speed limits ? No thought not.

At least Simon et al have the commitment to ride where they like when they like, have a bit of fun and semingly cause little problem with fellow countryside users.

It's just a pile of skanky rocks, ride it and be beggard if that's what you feel like doing - worst that can happen is to incur the faux moral outrage of some bitter old keyboard libertarians whose moral/social values bend to support their own viewpoint.

Irresponsible...hmmm?
Inconsiderate is probably more suited.

would anyone try it after seeing the video? I would think not...maybe they were trying to deter fellow mtb'ers all along?:lol:

I've ridden with these chaps and they are good guys.

great post BTW (very entertaining) 🙂

Or do you mean if you don't comply you won't enjoy it ?

Proper lol.

a percentage of the constipated walkers in the video will be slagging off MTBers for years to come as a result of that stunt..

That is pure speculation, you could easily say that a few will also say good things about them too, for having a go, for doing something a little crazy.

There were a couple of point when I though they should have stopped and let the walkers past, but in the main everyone seemed friendly and happy to share the trail.

On a related note, what tyres for the north side of Oxford Street on Christmas Eve?

I'd have liked to have seen more of the push up in the video. Probably more flow at that point.

To force walkers off the path is not acceptable. You have to give way to them.

I didn't realise that in England and Wales we are allowed to mow down walkers as we please...

To force walkers off the path is not acceptable. You have to give way to them.

I didn't realise that in England and Wales we are allowed to mow down walkers as we please...

only if you shout elite strava rider coming through !

Did I watch the wrong video? I'm struggling to see why knickers are getting in a bit of a twist here. The riders come across as polite and in control. The mountains are there for all to enjoy and not just walkers so why the keyboard agonising? No one was hurt, the riders weren't going fast and appeared to slow down for everyone they passed. To be honest, they looked to be going a fair bit slower than most fell runners I know! 😀 Perhaps we should get the pitchforks sharpened for them instead? Ha! Ha!

While some people may not like our presence in the hills, it's the same in all walks of life. You can't please everyone all the time and some folk won't like you simply for being in their presence. 😕

As for the route, boy does it look bumpy! It's still one on my list of rides to do though. Looks like they got one of the few good weather days for it. As for being responsible, I've always considered picking a good day part of being responsible. When the weather is nice, if things go wrong there is arguably more margin for error. If it's pissing wet and windy, hurting yourself can become more of a serious issue more quickly. Of course, on nice days, more folk are inclined to go up into the mountains to enjoy the weather. Does this mean that mountain bikers should only go out on wet days?

If the argument is that we shouldn't be there at all in case the frankly unlikely threat of a ban comes into play then by not going into the mountains, we have created a self fulfilling prophecy. Not being there to avoid being told not to be there has the same result. Sorry but I'm just not buying that logic.

See you in the mountains (or not as the case may be!)

Sanny

worst that can happen is to incur the faux moral outrage of some bitter old keyboard libertarians whose moral/social values bend to support their own viewpoint.

No, the worst that can happen is that bikers lose access. There have already been tests of the LRA, which in a couple of cases have revoked access under certain conditions. We do not want to go the same way as England and Wales, because a naive/stupid group of bikers has so publicly breached the Code. Unlikely, granted, but everything like this builds a swell of anti-biker sentiment. We're proud up here that everyone gets along on shared trails - no wonder folk are so up in arms about the audacity of those guys!

We're proud up here that everyone gets along on shared trails

Which is pretty much what I saw, people getting along on shared trails 😀

If the argument is that we shouldn't be there at all in case the frankly unlikely threat of a ban comes into play then by not going into the mountains, we have created a self fulfilling prophecy.

I don't think that's the argument, or at least not one that anyone in this thread has made 🙂 AFAICT the "anti" view is that if you're going to ride Ben Nevis it's best to do it when there are relatively few people about in the interests of (a) more fun and (b) better PR. Seems fairly uncontroversial to me, TBH.

I'm struggling to see why knickers are getting in a bit of a twist here

because this is STW 😆

3rd of June wasn't it?

[url] http://www.grough.co.uk/discussion/index.php?topic=690.0 [/url]

😀 😀

No, the worst that can happen is that bikers lose access.

I am at a loss to understand how this might be achieved. It would certainly be very expensive to implement. I suspect you are invoking the bogey man!

might it not be the case that most of those people weren't Scottish anyway and so have no say in any codes, understandings or laws there ?

AFAICT the "anti" view is that if you're going to ride Ben Nevis it's best to do it when there are relatively few people about in the interests of (a) more fun and (b) better PR. Seems fairly uncontroversial to me, TBH.

Exactly.

"might it not be the case that most of those people weren't Scottish anyway and so have no say in any codes, understandings or laws there ? "

ah the old ignorance defence.

That is pure speculation

[url= http://www.grough.co.uk/discussion/index.php?topic=690.0 ]http://www.grough.co.uk/discussion/index.php?topic=690.0[/url]

admittedly we can't possibly be certain about whether the guy was constipated on the day..

ah the old ignorance defence.

defence? This was about the demographic.

I haven't watched much of it but did see a couple of snippets.

At 15:50-16:10 people are jumping out of the way with inches to spare as they're buzzed at maybe 20mph or so. No allowance apparently made for the blind, deaf, people with dogs or small kids that might run out.

And then shortly afterwards at around 16:40 I notice the riders carry on down a narrow bit of trail when two walkers have moved to the downslope side of the trail above a steep and long slope. It doesn't take much of an error to then accidentally knock them. I know the trail's not terribly technical at that point but it happens - a slip of the front wheel on a rock or a pedal caught on something and you can end up off-line. Surely it doesn't take much common sense to realise that in that situation if you bump into the walker they don't stand a chance.

Is this not basic stuff: Don't expect people to be able to jump out of the way, and don't pass people when they're exposed on the downslope side?

Going out on one of the busiest days in the year to one of the busiest walking trails is daft, but riding like that is just behaving like selfish f***ing morons.

You give us all a bad name because you're dicks. A thousand puctures in turd-infested fields upon you.

I haven't watched much of it but did see a couple of snippets.

At 15:50-16:10 people are jumping out of the way with inches to spare as they're buzzed at maybe 20mph or so. No allowance apparently made for the blind, deaf, people with dogs or small kids that might run out.

And then shortly afterwards at around 16:40 I notice the riders carry on down a narrow bit of trail when two walkers have moved to the downslope side of the trail above a steep and long slope. It doesn't take much of an error to then accidentally knock them. I know the trail's not terribly technical at that point but it happens - a slip of the front wheel on a rock or a pedal caught on something and you can end up off-line. Surely it doesn't take much common sense to realise that in that situation if you bump into the walker they don't stand a chance.

Is this not basic stuff: Don't expect people to be able to jump out of the way, and don't pass people when they're exposed on the downslope side?

Going out on one of the busiest days in the year to one of the busiest walking trails is daft, but riding like that is just behaving like selfish f***ing morons.

You give us all a bad name because you're dicks. A thousand puctures in turd-infested fields upon you.

plus 1.

also, forget laws and codes and what not, but on all the mtns. i've ever gone up, it's common [i]courtesy[/i] to give priority to the uphill folk.

dunno if that's been mentioned yet...

Sanny - no one is saying don't go on the Ben - people are saying don't do it when its busy.

Agreed it was a stupid time to do it but reading this thread it definitely is the new golf isn't it.

WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE IMAGE!!!!

I got 3 'thankyou very muchs' from 3 horsey women who were frankly being dangerous stumbling down a trail I was going up yesterday so you nezzers can consider this as a 'wee' offset to your harmed image.

"[i]Did I watch the wrong video? ... The riders ... appeared to slow down for everyone they passed.[/i]"

Yup, sounds like you were watching the wrong video, or at least different bits of it to me.

"[i]Sanny - no one is saying don't go on the Ben - people are saying don't do it when its busy. [/i]"

And don't ride like a dick.

Hmm = an interesting one this. I got flamed a few months ago for "suggesting" that high mountains (eg BN or Helvellyn) were not the best places for MTBs. Perhaps the Mountain in MTB is a misnomer. Yes, I like riding bikes and I like riding in the Lakes etc but I personally always feel a little uncomfortable even riding on Loughrigg!! But this video made me uncomfortable mainly due to the lack of respect shown to walkers on the way up. Basic politeness and consideration surely.

But before we get too dogmatic and personal - why the flak here and not for the sweary Northerners. Great last video on St Sunday Crag to watch, but some of the same issues. Riding on the edge of paths, obvious examples of erosion by tyres on the grass edges etc and this is in the Lakes? Plus the guys who come belting past walkers on Helvellyn (or anywhere) are just as bad IMO

Not sure what the exact answer is here. But this is a common sense FAIL surely? Sometimes we (MTBers) are our own worst enemy!

"[i]WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE IMAGE!!!![/i]"

Hasn't it already been repeatedly mentioned that responsible use is entrenched in Scottish access law?

There's a fine line between "image" and posing genuine risk to people through things like failing to anticipate things like unseen children who may appear from groups or partially-able people who may be unable to react quickly to a bike approaching at 20mph, failing to understand the danger of closely passing people stood on a highly exposed slope edge, and posting videos with subtitled comments that include "if he hadn't moved out of the way I'd definitely have killed him".

billysugger - Member

Agreed it was a stupid time to do it but reading this thread it definitely is the new golf isn't it.

You will find the folk complaining have an awful lot of experience in the mountains. NOt newbs at all

Its the whole point its the wrong time to do this

live and let live but im a firm believer of when in other countrys respect their culture , guidelines and laws. - i think this falls under that.

of course simon and his bogtrotters are their own principality and answers only to themselves it seems

.

"if he hadn't moved out of the way I'd definitely have killed him".

I took this to be a pop at the above linked sensationalist article. I mean 'ripping up the Ben'. I bet that day's weather moved more rock than they did.

I can't believe some people are defending these morons. Saying 'thanks' when steaming past people at 20mph and putting people in danger does not make it ok.

Uncomfortable viewing.

Watched a bit more of the video and some of it is totally out of order and just stupid IMO. Way too close and way too fast at many points.

I don't see what that has to do with golf.

I'd just like to state I don't defend them. I don't even see the point to be honest 15ish mph for minutes on end like riding a jackhammer, can't see the fun.

It's just all this talk of image I object to. I ride because it's fun. I have for 20+ years and I will do if MTBs have a good/bad image. Just be courteous but don't pander to them. They could have stopped and let every single walker past but some would still probably have looked at them like they were in the wrong for being on 'their' mountain.

with subtitled comments that include "if he hadn't moved out of the way I'd definitely have killed him".

that was ironic

"[i]They could have stopped and let every single walker past but some would still probably have looked at them like they were in the wrong for being on 'their' mountain. [/i]"

So what? In what way is this a defence of riding like a dick who puts other people at risk?

I'd just like to state I don't defend them

Stop frothing man

I can't believe some people are defending these morons. Saying 'thanks' when steaming past people at 20mph and putting people in danger does not make it ok.

Uncomfortable viewing.

+1

I'm no poster boy for access campaigns, but even I think that looked stupid.

But then I do admit there is a point that if you're allowed to be there then you're allowed to be there on a bank holliday. Hypotheticaly if MTB was really popular and hundreds of MTB'ers rode it then would a minority of walkers get stick for being there on a busy bank holliday?

"[i]that was ironic [/i]"

Well I had no clue that it was, but my comment still stands.

what a bunch of dicks (the riders on Ben Nevis that is).

I'd just like to state I don't defend them

shut it then two inch

"[i]if you're allowed to be there then you're allowed to be there on a bank holliday[/i]"

That's not been in dispute, though, has it?

You're *allowed* to be a pedestrian on the pavement but if you put on American football gear and run down a narrow pavement on the last shopping day before Christmas expecting everyone to jump out of the way then that would make you a prize dick.

But then I do admit there is a point that if you're allowed to be there then you're allowed to be there on a bank holliday. Hypotheticaly if MTB was really popular and hundreds of MTB'ers rode it then would a minority of walkers get stick for being there on a busy bank holliday?

No, because the access code dictates that cyclists give way to walkers. Also, walkers are never going to be endangering and scaring others by going 20mph+ down busy and not very wide sections of path.

You're *allowed* to be a pedestrian on the pavement but if you put on American football gear and run down a narrow pavement on the last shopping day before Christmas expecting everyone to jump out of the way then that would make you a prize dick.

Well put. 🙂

shut it then two inch

?

You been speaking to the mrs?

Bez - Member

"if you're allowed to be there then you're allowed to be there on a bank holliday"

That's not been in dispute, though, has it?

You're *allowed* to be a pedestrian on the pavement but if you put on American football gear and run down a narrow pavement on the last shopping day before Christmas expecting everyone to jump out of the way then that would make you a prize dick.

🙂

At what point do they pass walkers at 20mph? I think there is perhaps more than a little bit of exaggeration if you think they are going anywhere near that fast. What I find uncomfortable in this thread are some of the name calling and what comes across, perhaps unintentionally, as a bit of anti English sentiment. Poor show chaps.

You been speaking to the mrs?

😀

No, because the access code dictates that cyclists give way to walkers. Also, walkers are never going to be endangering and scaring others by going 20mph+ down busy and not very wide sections of path.

"The law is an ass" and all that.

You're *allowed* to be a pedestrian on the pavement but if you put on American football gear and run down a narrow pavement on the last shopping day before Christmas expecting everyone to jump out of the way then that would make you a prize dick.

"[i]At what point do they pass walkers at 20mph? I think there is perhaps more than a little bit of exaggeration if you think they are going anywhere near that fast.[/i]"

15:50-16:10.

I only watched a minute or two around the middle of the video so there may or may not be others.