[Closed] Bloody Hope cranks have snapped.... Grrrr

I think hope are shut.

How much do you weigh?

About 13 stone

How much do you weigh?

Not really relevant for cranks. Think of the typical loads that the crankset would be designed to take and then consider the relatively tiny load from dropping off a kerb - the rider’s weight shouldn’t really factor as a percentage of their limit load.

If I was Hope I’d be sending a courier to collect them to find out why they failed as a matter of urgency.

You were lucky not to be hurt IMHO - see the thread about mangled cassettes.

Dropping off a kerb you say?? Not sure that's in the spirit of "No Gnar"   😉

then consider the relatively tiny load from dropping off a kerb – the rider’s weight shouldn’t really factor as a percentage of their limit load.

Eh?

Hopped up the curb..pretty low on the gnar scale I reckon.

Think about it - these would be designed to tolerate the weight of something like the 90th percentile rider landing after the largest typical jump you might find at a trail centre, plus a safety factor.

That load is huge.

Hopping up a kerb (or down, whatever) is something like 1% of that load for someone who weighs 12 stones or 2% if they weigh 20 stones.

This is why I said that weight isn’t a factor in this failure. All in my opinion, of course.

I would check to see if the bearings were seized

I have to wonder if the axle hadn't cracked during installation of the ridiculously torqued bolt. I think this was mentioned on a previous thread as happened to someone else. Cranks had been on for about 2 months (when I got the new frame).
Their installation instructions, and acompanying video state this thing is done to quite a high torque. I even went out and bough a new wrench for just that reason. They came loose the first time of installation done in a bike shop!.
They are a proper faff. There's about 6 parts or more to installing them as opposed to Shimano which are frankly a piece of piss and have never come loose in getting on for 28 years of riding.
They have a lock ring that takes up the play and I was for ever adjusting it... To the point where I got Hope to send me a bunch of the tiny little Allen bolts as they simply round off if given the smallest bit of force.

Oh...and bearings are fine.

Overpriced bling garbage.

Taxi!!! really

Weight isn't irrelevant. If you keep cycling loads on a material in excess of the endurance limit it will eventually fail through fatigue.

Yeah...wife was at work...on her bike and I was damned if I was walking all that way back so taxi (minibus) seemed the only option really.

Hope are shut

they are but....

We are living in strange times which are affecting every part of our lives and requires changes for us all.

At Hope, we have now taken the difficult decision to temporarily suspend our production in an effort to keep our staff and wider community safe during the COVID-19 epidemic.

The whole manufacturing and despatch departments are closed from Friday 27th March, initially for three weeks.

Our customer service staff are continuing to work remotely and can be contacted via the usual phone numbers and email addresses, although we have reduced hours with our phone lines open 9-12 Monday to Friday.

I'm really easy on stuff and ride like a wuss but the only stuff I've ever broken has been Hope.

Well I'm heavy and not easy on stuff and I've never broken any Hope stuff. Stuff breaks from time to time, who knows why? this stuff has been used by riders much more gnar than any of us so clearly good enough for us. This is not the first time I've heard of Hope first gen cranks failing so not completely unheard of (got a set myself) though I'm sure it's not common by any stretch. Also see stories of Shimano Ultra and Dura Ace cranks failing (and Rodies are hardly Gnar)...and a few years ago SRAM carbon pedal thread inserts failing etc. All manufacturers have got their fair share of stories of failing parts so lets not get too much in a fuss about a handful of Hope cranks failing too.

They are a bit of a faff to install...took me a few attempts before I was satisfied I'd done it correctly, but maybe installation is a factor in the ones that have failed...would be impossible to tell, but maybe led to Hope re-designing the cranks.

Hope has always seemed like a lot of money for stuff which is mostly just cut from a billet.

If they were hard to get on I'm wondering if your BB shell is a little eccentric. That would explain the failure if the axle is subject to eccentric loads as it rotates.

It’s entirely possible for any product to have a failure at some point, nothing is perfect, even Hope! I’ve got Race Face cranks with the splined bb system, can’t remember what it was called, but I do remember them being plagued with complaints, but I had one set of bearings go, after a year or so, then had no issues at all for years, in fact they’re still on the bike, I guess they’re getting on for fifteen years old!

This is a catastrophic failure not premature wear.

The though of that happening after a decent sized drop is really quite frightening.

Until yesterday I would’ve said Shimano cranks are almost perfect, but somehow I managed to snap the chainring bolt tab off a pair of slx cranks when changing the chainring!

Some Hope stuff is fantastic but other bits like rims and cranks just seem unjustifiably heavy and expensive. Not withstanding the armoury of tools needed to fit their cranks and BBs

rydster
Member

Weight isn’t irrelevant. If you keep cycling loads on a material in excess of the endurance limit it will eventually fail through fatigue.

OK, but that's not what we're seeing here, those haven't been worn out through a long and hard life, those have failed from a material or manufacturing or design defect

@op

Setting you up a go fund me page for you for EEwings 😛

I wonder if makers of 30mm alloy spindle cranks factor in misaligned bb shells when considering strength to weight ratios. 24mm steel spindle is my preference.
Hambini has found many frames with shells way off in all directions.

Took my Hope's apart today to try and resolve the incessant creaking. Discovered the axle is broken on the overly delicate none driveside splines. 2 of the 4 quarters broken off. To be fair I bought these second hand and I dont think the none driveside crank was installed properly...crank wasnt all the way on to the splines which explains why I had to use an extra BBC spacer...couldn't work it out at the time. Saying that though.. the cranks are over complicated, over weight and too delicate for the price. My ancient xt cranks that have been on about 5 bikes are better in every way. Lighter, cheaper, simpler, and holotech is way more advanced even now. Fancy CNC Machining is just a cover for not having the necessary tooling (or maybe patants) to hollow forge cranks.

Let's clear one thing up. I can't believe that you paid 20 quid for a 5 mile taxi ride.

How far did you really ride?

Looking at the OP's pics, those cranks look as though they're in good nick - no wear on the anodizing and the chainring looks pretty unworn.

+1 for catastrophic failure, I'd send them back to Hope for analysis.

For the past ten years I've stuck with XT, not sexy but Shimano has never, ever let me down.

I’ve stuck the faithful old XTs back on for now (just they are silver and it’s all black finishing kit…oh the humanity).

Just get a set of black XTs,stick the Hope ones on ebay if they replace them. Problem solved.

Yeah the £20 hurt a bit... It was a minibus to be fair and it was 5 maybe 6 miles...plus the first 2 cash machines we stopped at were out of action.

@thornton... There was a thread on here a few months back where several folk mentioned broken or cracked axles and I did think at the time it was a bad omen. I take your point about machined cranks as well... Like I said, never had any issues with the holotechs, but I have once broken a crank arm before which just happened to be a fancy machined "kooka" crank (remember them). The hope are just plain over engineered and frankly a nightmare to fit. I can't remember the tightening torque (70nm??) But it was insane really. The bloke in the shop actually said he was buggered if he was tightening a bit of alloy up that much so he just felt it on...and then it came loose!

That was exactly what I was thinking Bigyan...the new xt have a spiderless ring (which is the only reason I got them) and just so much less faff.

Am using M8100 XT here. The cranks ain't sexy, but they're a doddle to fit. Shimano even include the special tool to tighten the chainring in the box.

Donks - interesting that you mention the torque. In my original post I was going to ask if you used a torque wrench to fit them, but then double-checked the installation guide and saw the target of 75Nm.

Short of a scaffolding pipe I think it would be quite difficult to over-tighten them and so I edited the post.

The bloke in the shop actually said he was buggered if he was tightening a bit of alloy up that much so he just felt it on…and then it came loose!

So ignored the instructions and had issues

Genuine question- is tightening to 70nm feasible with normal tools? I struggle getting things to 50nm. Cinch cranks for example, even using a hefty Park torque bar

All you need to do is hold the rear wheel and press on the torque wrench. Or If if it’s easier bike on the floor and torque the bolt.

Yes the hope ones are a faff and I don’t like them. But if you don’t follow there instructions it’s hard to complain

I have installed them my self now about 4 times. Getting 70nm on the wrench is a task. Each time I have my eyes closed just waiting for something to give. I've never tightened anything on a push bike to that level...the XT cranks you almost just need to nip up and they stay on. I'd say it was definitely why hope changed the design... I'd not be surprised if they've had loads of failures.

Genuine question- is tightening to 70nm feasible with normal tools? I struggle getting things to 50nm. Cinch cranks for example, even using a hefty Park torque bar

In a workstand, yes. Assemble bit all to the point where you need to apply torque, then stick the bike on the floor.

Having watched the assembly process, they really have over complicated it all. Everytime you add a step, there is a chance of error.

There hubs are good, durable, not to hefty. Bbs are good as well

In the grand scheme of bolt fastening, 70Nm isn't a lot but it is a fair bit to go through the average bike tool kit of a half decent allen key set.

On a 300mm long 1/2" square drive socket set it would be pushing or pulling with the equivalent strength to lift around 23Kg.

On the average shorter allen key it would be even more, probably have it twisting a fair bit and requiring a bar over it to stop it hurting your hand.

I really like Hope kit but this does seem a tad ridiculous.

why is the bearing still on the axle on the non-driveside?

Surely the bearing should be still in the frame/BB... Given the snap is right where the bearing sits on the driveside, I'm wondering if this has played a part.

But don't get me wrong, the 1st gen Hope cranks are a bad design and a right faff to fit and even worse to disassemble (I have some).

How did all those gauge marks get on there ? I had mine apart last week after 18 months of solid use and it didn’t look anything like that.

Scary stuff failing like that.

I had a set of Truvative cranks that failed - after a rocky ride they were creaking. When I took off the bolt holding them on I discovered a spiral fracture from the splines, starting just where the threads inside started. With all the machining that exact spot was the thinnest and also the change from 'supported' by crank to the daft SRAM plastic covers to the actual bearing surface.

Once again, I'm a Shimano fan here.

ndthornton.. "I dont think the none driveside crank was installed properly"..
primary cause of Hope gen 1 crank shaft failure.
P.S, I had a set of xt cranks do the same thing a few years ago.

Well.. just had a reply from Hope to the effect of "the crank arm was not fully pushed onto the axle resulting in it snapping and replacement axles are available"

So my fault then!! Well that may be true but in all honesty I put the crank arm on the spline and gave it absolutely loads of Welly to "seat onto the axle shoulder" in fact I was worried I'd over done it so for the love of all things I'm not sure what else I could have done. And I don't remember seeing in their instructions about checking "visually" to see if seated on the shoulder.... I'm sure it just says till it comes to a stop... Which it did!!

Anyway... Right peeved with Hope here TBH and thought they would have been a little less abrupt so I'll not re-fit the hopes and leave the XTs now.
Hurrumph....

I got a Hope Evo crankset a few months ago and I'm not impressed. Very difficult to get rid of play. I'm also having to check and readjust every 2 or 3 rides. I followed the fitting Instructions to the letter and used a torque wrench. I've used XT/XTR in the past and they have been fit and forget. I'll be going back to them.

How about a Bb non-drive side bearing failing after 140km?
Lovely cranks, but with their own specific 30mm BB that costs £80?

Just bought some Shimano SLX cranks, chainring and BB for not much more than a Hope BB replacement!

My hope crank axle broke, speaking to my lbs at the time they had seen several.  Hope tried to tell me they had never heard of the issue.  Luckily i caught mine when stripping the bike down for a service.  The design is frankly shoddy.  Albeit I have yet to see if it’s improved on their revised version of the crank.  Overpriced, heavy and over complicated.  Obviously the Hope fanbois will try and deflect blame elsewhere.

This cracking/shearing a crank axle simply just shouldn't happen in these modern times of riding
If it were square taper for example then I'd accept/believe it
It's yet another item of kit that is not fit for purpose

I'd expect Hope considering they're meant to have decent CS to acknowledge this and put in for a recall and see riders right

If not then I'd expect to see a lot spending less on other brands on chunks of alloy

Hope cranks are the one Hope product I was glad to get rid of. At £30 for a replacement axle, £17 each for the 30mm bearings I should've binned it a long time ago.

Did you ever hear back from Hope?

Did you ever hear back from Hope?

Um up there

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/bloody-hope-cranks-have-snapped-grrrr/page/2/#post-11156165

I did pretty much that to a set of XTs a few years ago.

760s or 770s - I can't remember.

I was in granny ring going up a climb at the time.

now that Shimano is finally on the direct mount bandwagon, I can't see any reason to go down the bling/30mm axle route.

30mm BBs don't last as long IME as they use smaller bearings, and cost more (although that's not an engineering argument).

30mm axles are softer aluminium so pit more easily that 24mm steel.

DUB is 30mm in a different jumper.

All we need now is the aftermarket chainring manufacturers to make Shimano spline rings.

Hope seem to be completely hit or miss, I've had some awful hubs, and some that have been bombproof, no rhyme nor reason as to why. The current Pro4 hubs came with my Bronson, and have been very much in the bomb proof category, but others have had awful bother with them, which I did with both pro2 and pro2evo. Never had any bother with their headsets, they're my go to.

And it's the reason I'd never buy their brakes, too expensive to risk dodgy friday tolerances.

I wouldn't touch the cranks, well, cos they are pretty ugly!.

I'm still convinced that the problems people are having (snapped axles, play, premature bearing death) are due to getting the installation wrong.
I've got the original (non-Evo) cranks and it's actually not at all intuitive to put them together and tighten everything up correctly. I'd also be willing to bet that a lot of bike shops screw up the installation.

Premature bearing failure is classic symptom of incorrect installation. I too think the installation is an part of this. Hope themselves are a decent company and wouldn't have sent these things out to customers if there were not fully satisfied they were good. They will have tested these things a lot with some pretty sh1t hot riders putting the cranks through duty us mere mortals couldn't bring to bear in a lifetime of riding, but the big difference is the cranks would have been installed properly. My Hope cranks have been fine so far (touch wood) and bearing are still running fine after a couple of years, but it did take me about 3 or 4 attempts at installation before I was satisfied i'd done it correctly and I dread the time I have to remove the cranks again. So easy to do it wrong and get away with it and continue riding blissfully unaware you're over-stressing certain components.

I'm always suspicious of any component that require special tools. If you need special tools it means you've not really done the best job on the fundamental design in the first place. The fact they've renewed the design and made it simpler to install without the use of special tools is effectively an admission their first gen cranks were not 'fully optimised'.

All we need now is the aftermarket chainring manufacturers to make Shimano spline rings

Absolute Black already do. Got a 28T oval on my Rocket Max.

Yep... Heard back from Hope after I sent them a load of photos and was told it was my fault as the crank arm was not fully pressed into the spline (which they could see from the image). New axles are available from a reseller was their end statement, so I've ordered one from Winstanleys (let's not go there as I've not received anything yet!!).

I appreciate the crank arm was not fully home....but...the installation instructions simply say "drive crank arm onto spline until it comes to a hard stop". In truth I did this up so hard I was sure I'd overdone it? So I now wonder if the spline was out of shape to prevent the arm going on fully as I cannot see how it wouldn't have pressed on fully?

Anyway I'll be sticking with the Shimano ones and selling the hope I reckon.

+1 the installation procedure for the 1st gen Hopes is not intuitive at all, and I still pull up the official Hope instructions every time I install/disassemble just to remind me what does what.

Not had any issues with mine yet but I still wince at giving it 70Nm...

Not had any issues with mine yet but I still wince at giving it 70Nm…

This comes up now and again, but Shimano (whatever you might think about their glacial adoption of emerging fashions) really got it right with HT2 - it needs one, 5mm hex at 12-14nm, and a knurled knob tightened to finger tight with a cheap, plastic tool. Never had one come loose when fitted correctly, and are quickly and easily removed for maintenance.

I love Hope stuff, but won't be rushing to buy the cranks.

Agree on HTII being the sweet spot. The extra weight of a steel 24mm axle vs an alloy 30mm is nothing when you think it's down low, central and sprung mass. Add in the low torques required and the decent size bearings that are cheap to replace and you realise that Shimano really nailed it first time out. Currently got RaceFace Cinch 30mm chainsets on 2 bikes and am seriously wondering what benefit they give me over an SLX, even the direct mount doesn't really affect me as I don't go lower than a 32T ring.

SRAM cranks - they just require one 8mm Allen key to fit (The same one self-extracts). Lovely and also pretty idiot-proof... Even easier than HT2...

SRAM cranks – they just require one 8mm Allen key to fit (The same one self-extracts). Lovely and also pretty idiot-proof… Even easier than HT2…

Sram is easy but HTII takes the win, can be a bit of a pain to get the crank-arm thread to bite into the axle sometimes IME, need a third hand

ive had a hope BB, crank set and headset for over 2 years now and been spot on. Never had any problems. Me mate just got the new YT Izzo pro race and his sram carbon crank set snapped in the first week of riding it.

daern
Member

This comes up now and again, but Shimano (whatever you might think about their glacial adoption of emerging fashions) really got it right with HT2 – it needs one, 5mm hex at 12-14nm, and a knurled knob tightened to finger tight with a cheap, plastic too

Yup. I'm a tart so I'm always looking at newer flasher lighter stuff, but all my bikes have cheap old XTR cranks on- they just work, and are only a handful of grams heavier than my raceface carbon ones frinstance which did not work.

Hope has always seemed like a lot of money for stuff which is mostly just cut from a billet.

They seem to enjoy using cnc machinery to make hundreds of different bits.
I think we've been paying for those machine upgrades since 1990.

I find it's things like servicing, the bearings being a prime example. You look at something like the bulb and the main bearing behind the freehub is gigantic, but todays [pro 2/evo/4 the bearings are thin, and id expect from that to be lighter and flimsier.
Cost of them has rocketed, so you're looking at 40 quid for new bearings, plus either the drifts to fit them yourself at another 40 quid, or a shop to do it for not far off that. is it any wonder people just buy a new hub when the bearings expire.
Certainly I'm seeing a lot of dismantled hope wheels, usually sold without the freehub, which mostly being alloy gets ripped up more than ive ever seen a freehub damaged such. Almost like lets create this part so it also as a finite life. Personally the only reason I can see that they dropped the Ti freehub, was because it was so good.

Shimano have it in the bag. Simple installation and safety built in without the rediculous torque values required on other cranksets. I'm out as soon as 'wave washers' and 'adjusting collars' are mentioned in any chainset blurb.

Because it's so easy not to overtighten a Shimano set! Half the damn tools circumvent the idea of the proper tool. Also relying on 'finger tight' is never a good plan.

With regards to 70Nm torque being too much, and therefore ignored.

I think we need to appreciate just how much torque larger threads can take.

For example grade 4.6 steel M24 bolt (diameter 24mm) can be tightened to 320Nm. We need to account for aluminium threads, but even then we get to 100Nm. Thread pitch, lubricated threads etc will also have impact on torques.

So I guess if an manufacturer bothers to specify a torque it was done for a good reason..

Having said all that Shimano cranks are ace!

Shimano cranks never get stuck on. That XT one i had to angle grind off because one of the hex bolts rounded must have been a figment of my imagination

hex bolts rounded

More magically self-rounding bolts! 🙂

Shimano cranks never get stuck on. That XT one i had to angle grind off because one of the hex bolts rounded must have been a figment of my imagination

Why on earth would you angle grind it off just because of a rounded bolt head?

SRAM cranks – they just require one 8mm Allen key to fit (The same one self-extracts). Lovely and also pretty idiot-proof… Even easier than HT2…

You forgot the bar extension to get them undone (and the 2mm to do up the preload collar). And I still haven't worked out why the cap on the self-extracting bolt disappeared mid-ride on mine, meaning I had to buy a new one to get it off.

More magically self-rounding bolts! 🙂

Nothing magic about it.  Previous owner didn't look after it properly.  Salt and mud in the threads and probably over-tightened.

Why on earth would you angle grind it off just because of a rounded bolt head?

Because it was rounded off and wouldn't undo  and the bolt heads are set into the crank arm.  And it was the inner one.

User error leading to damaged parts.  Not just an issue with Hope cranks.

I guess in the heat of the moment good judgment goes out of the window? Rather that wait and think we just get on with it and in the process make it worse.

Friend of mine (who is a good engineer) tried to use his expensive torque wrench to undo a bolt. Said bolt had already defeated his breaker bar. happens to the best of us!

No mention of the Superstar crank fitting tool (aka a rock)?

I've just a torque wrench to undo bolts before. The massively tight crank bolt on a car engine, was the only thing I wcould get in the gap between engine and chassis and at an angle I could actual apply force to it. Still had to use my leg! I did set it to a ery high torque value first though and it didn't click.

Me mate just got the new YT Izzo pro race and his sram carbon crank set snapped in the first week of riding it.

On the flip side, I've two sets of X01 carbon cranks that between them are not far away from 2million feet of descending in 6 years. Retired one set as the axle shaft was finally too worn and the other one is heading the same way.