[Closed] Blairadam Trails after SUS mtb champs

On the up-side, at least they don't have a round of it running over the Cairngorm plateau eh? 🙄

damn!!!! beat me to it!!

bludy stoodints

Sorry you feel this way about this.

It was unfortunate, but in the week preceding the race we'd had some exceptionally bad weather, even for the season. The sheer amount of rain was out of sorts and couldn't be predicted in race planning. I know the now defunct BikeBlairadam had events there at similar times of year and they were all fine.

We've agreed that there shouldn't be a race there in winter again, but none of us could have foreseen the state the trails were in afterwards. We're going to try and get a trail maintenance day done. Part of the deal is to leave the forest as we found it. Sadly at the minute I'm on with my dissertation and simply do not have time to get down there, but am hoping to do so in the spring break in a week's time.

This race was encouraged by other local riders who all seemed to suggest that it would be OK, and not being local we had to take their word for it, but neither them nor us could have guessed at the way that amount of rain would have affected the trails. No one else has mentioned this to us and all the other locals seem happy with how the event was run and the impact it had.

In fairness, there is only one section that has suffered particularly on a 4 mile circuit between the bombhole and the steps which isn't a long section.

We will try out best to sort this out, but like I say, the conditions were exceptional and unpredictable, even for February. The last time I saw an event with similar mud was SITS, which is held in August, which is a time when you'd expect a much more intense rainfall like we had.

i agree with mc, a wonder what the money from the blast race 2 years ago went on.

Part of the deal is to leave the forest as we found it.

Is the idea not to do this before you leave rather tahn when it suits you? I remember the No Fuss guys had to do a lot of work at Kirroughtree before they left which meant a very long weekend for them.

Is the blast race the one that was to raise funds for the trail builders and was held at a similar time of year?

Is the blast race the one that was to raise funds for the trail builders and was held at a similar time of year?

Yep, funds raised from the entry were to be reinvested in the trails. However the Bike Blairadam group broke up soon after. No mention of where the funds went to on the Bike Blairadam website.

that was the idea of the blast race to try and raise money for the trails .it was a good race but conditions were much better you could still use them after the race 2years later nowt has been done with any money.

Sounds like the only difference was that the students got a bit unlucky with the weather. Can't criticise them for holding a race at that time of year if they haven't been the only ones to hold one at that time of year. How about complaining about the folks that took money to improve the trails then broke up soon after.

in the week preceding the race we'd had some exceptionally bad weather, even for the season. The sheer amount of rain was out of sorts and couldn't be predicted in race planning.

none of us could have foreseen the state the trails were in afterwards.

I think that the Blairadam Blast guys had a contingency postponement if the weather were to have threatened the durability of the trails. We were armouring with hardcore the areas we predicted would be most vulnerable the day before the race. IIRC on race day it rained, but it had been dry and probably icy the week before.

My contention is that given the weather conditions before the race, shouldn't the organisers have rerouted race course. There were other areas of the forest that could have withstood the traffic better.

YGM McM

IIRC following the Blast the commission began a fairly sustained logging program which had repercussions throughout the Forrest.
The group decided to lay off trailbuilding during this period as no one was sure what lines would survive.
The other problem was the ever decreasing number of volunteers turning up for trailbuilding sessions. I'm sure mcmoonter will agree that it was the same few faces each time. Pretty poor showing when you considder the number of regular riders using Blairadam!
For anyone questioning the whereabouts of the funds raised through the Blast I'd be willing to stake my bike on the fact that they are sitting in the bank awaiting their next move.
Whether this is through trail maintenance (possibly not due to lack of volunteers) or some other means will I'm sure be revealed in time. I note that Bike:Blairadam subscribers have recently been mailed a link for a new website so something is happening!
I guess we just have to wait and see...

I rode at the blast race and really enjoyed it, even on a fully rigid singlespeed. I hope they can get something organised and the trails survive.

McM- I just didn't think that it would get so bad in such a short time. I didn't assume that an alternative would be needed and that was clearly wrong.

I got a letter through from the FC just now and they seemed happy enough with everything apart from the portaloos (which were more hassle than they were worth) and the use of the railway cutting.

As for the money from the Blast, knowing the effort that the guys behind Bike Blairadam and the new venture are putting in, I'd bet it's safe and just needed this new opportunity to get things going.

Jamesey01,

The last couple of trailbuilding days were well attended and folks were really enthusiastic about future developments. I got the impression the organisation behind BikeBlairadam imploded at a critical point after the Blast when the clear felling took place.

I see lots of new faces on the trails and there are always bikers cars in the car park. I'm certain the mast descent trail could be cleared on a Saturday morning with 20 folks with pruning saws. That might be a worthwhile restitution for the SUS riders as I doubt there is anything short term that could be done with the trashed trail.

Who on earth were the advisers who okayed the race route given the weather?

I've always found Blairadam to be unenjoyably wet, and I do most of my riding at Pitmedden which isn't faring too well recently either.

Part of the appeal of Blairadam is the natural character of the trails, I shudder when I hear of 'new ventures'.

Sorry, but there aren't 20 organisers to help out with that.

MCM
The trailbuilding session preceding the race was the exception not the rule. Unfortunately it's easy to get excited about future development but the development is limited when you have the same 3/4 people struggling to build/maintain km's of natural trails.
I remember being 1 of only 2 who spent an evening barrowing hardcore and completing the boardwalk in the East Boundary section!

I remember being 1 of only 2 who spent an evening barrowing hardcore and completing the boardwalk in the East Boundary section!

I remember turning up for a trailbuilding session to find that the ton bags of hardcore had been dropped at the car park. Had I not brought the 4x4 and trailer, the day would have been wasted barrowing material miles to the trails.

Trail building parties need planning and good management to get the best out of everyone. There is nothing worse turning up and standing around.

I spent a couple of years as part of the group, most of the trailbuilding in this time consisted of 4-6 people turning up every weekend to try and maintain/develop the trails..
With the use of trails it was an endless task just trying to maintain/armour what was there, never mind trying to develop new lines etc. There was also the constraints of what the permit allowed that the FC issued. As for money, the insurance premium, i'm sure was around £200 per year, Jamesy01 will correct me if i'm wrong. the only reason we manage to do anything the last year was thanks to a local bike shop who covered the cost of this payment.
I too was there MCM when you brought your trailer to the building sessions, which without, we would never have managed to move the materials into the forrest.

Weeeeell, might be worth mentioning here that there's a pretty active trailbuilding group down at glentress, and that the next session (26th March) has just been cancelled so if there's specific one-off work being done it might not be too hard to rouse a chain gang in a hurry.

After two weeks of freezing nights and drying easterly winds, my expectation was that the trails would be in great shape. They were in fact an unrideable quagmire. I doubt they'll recover till late in the summer.

...when did we have 2 weeks of freezing nights this winter? 2 weeks of solid rain yeah but, sorry, there have not been 2 weeks of freezing nights at all. And 'drying easterly' winds...? When/where? and what good would these 'winds' have been in a mature flat forest..protected by...tree cover?

Apologies for wading in late, this is not my arguement and I've no axe to grind either way but the Blairadam title caught my attention and I found these statements to be, well, laying it on a little thick! 😉

ps I didn't realise there were proper trails in Blairadam other than the pathways. If anybody's up for giving a tour...

...when did we have 2 weeks of freezing nights this winter? 2 weeks of solid rain yeah but, sorry, there have not been 2 weeks of freezing nights at all. And 'drying easterly' winds...?

Those were the couple of weeks when virtually every farmer in the county managed to spread manure, plough and rotovate, and seed their land.

There are loads of great trails at Blairadam. If you would like a tour, I'd be happy to show you around.

Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree on the weather...but I'd appreciate a tour!

Maybe one night after the clocks change next weekend if you're local. The forest is about 4 or 5 mins from my house by car. 😆
cheers

No trouble, my email is in my profile, give me a shout sometime next again week. We could get a posse together with the guys from the Meadows.

Munrobiker

I think it's time you took a good look at what you and your compatriots have done.

[b]In fairness, there is only one section that has suffered particularly on a 4 mile circuit between the bombhole and the steps which isn't a long section.[/b]

I have to disagree here. The section you mention is badly damaged. Various parts of The Ridge trail are badly damaged. The last section that Bike: Blairadam worked on after the race (and on which funds from the race were spent) is badly damaged.

Sections that had two or more years of traffic and coped, now fubared.

Here's some pics, just to show what's happened in a number of spots....

[url= http://s1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc472/tiberiusJK/ ]PICS[/url]

Oh, one last thing:

[b]

[url= http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~cycling/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=151 ]http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~cycling/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=151[/url]

Re: UH OH - the STW massive are on yer backs...

New postby Luke » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:11 pm
I hate STW. Bunch of middle class whiney cockbags.[/b]

Is this an indication of how serious your assurance that you'll return and repair the damage is?

One positive thing in this thread though. It's nice to see people taking an interest in Blairadam and the trails the group worked on. To see people like McMoonter, Murr, Stevenmenmuir and Stuartie C contribute. Local riders like them, who have actively helped the trailbuilding project over its life and who all got their hands dirty helping out on the various weekend sessions over the years.

It's a shame there weren't more people like you guys.

A Luke in St Andrews 💡

I think I rode that on Saturay (in my 20 minutes of bike time I managed!)...not been to Blairadam for a while but will be back soon. Can anyone tell me the story behind the engraved brickwork? Touch not the cat and a picture of a dragon? Looks real nice...

[i]A Luke in St Andrews[/i]

Not 'fit it with a rock then take it back and complain it's damaged' Luke?

Can anyone tell me the story behind the engraved brickwork? Touch not the cat and a picture of a dragon? Looks real nice...

Something to do with the brickworks that used to be in the woods and a reference to the beast IIRC.

Munrobiker

How are the repairs progressing?

Might be worth a ride this weekend to see how a week of blowing wind and rising temperatures have treated the trails....as long as the rain holds off!

Could be an idea. I might pop up after work tonight or head up tomorrow morning.

I've copied and pasted this from below. It appears above the door to Ballindalloch Castle on Speyside.

Touch Not The Cat Bot A Glove
Basically meaning 'Dinnae Mess Wi' Us, Likes, We're Well Hard'!

Or, more enigmatically "The Wildcat Is Fierce When Its Claws Are Unsheathed... Be Warned... Do Not Touch."

Either way, it's a particularly effective historical equivalent of the 'no cold callers' sign...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/itmpa/4677942199/

Tiberius & neallyman, we might be going for a spin up to Blairadam this evening if either of you are around.

Thinking of having a look with a view to clearing a route down the mast descent.

Damn

Yeah I would do but have packed the bike in the car with a view to going down GT after work. Im still up for a tour though, maybe 1 night next week?

maybe 1 night next week?

Tiberius & neallyman, we might be going for a spin up to Blairadam this evening if either of you are around.

Sorry, I never spotted this until today after pulling a late night at work. I'll maybe manage it another time, work permitting.

The [url= ]last picture[/url] shows a piece of ground that the race didn't use. Went up the forestry road to the left of that.

Most of the rest (barring the bombhole-steps section) looks like typical Blairadam, in that it would be nice that it got a little hardcore as part of the race preparation/teardown.

Come on Luke, stop dicking about with your dissertation and sort this out. If you couldn't finish the job you shouldn't have started.

Fair enough re the last picture.

I'd love it if Luke stopped dicking about with his dissertation and sorted things out, but I'm beginning to think we won't see him around these parts for a wee while.

There is the option to take this further...

Luke and the St Andrews University Cycling Club were organising the event on behalf of Scottish University Sports. I'm sure they'd be interested to hear about the poor legacy that has been left at the event location. http://www.susport.org.uk/

The St Andrews Sports Union might also like to hear about how one of their member clubs is bringing their name into disrepute. http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/sport/au/

I'll just leave those there.

Has anyone actually emailed the club captain/Luke and actually asked if they'll fix it rather than just complaining on here?

I'm curious to know what repairs you would expect a 'responsible' race organiser to do if trails were left in that condition?

You hold a race, the trail gets a bit chopped up, what do you do about it? Genuine question.

Cheers.

As I understand it the race was held with the promise to leave the trails as they found them.

The race was held on private Forestry Commission land. As Bike Blairadam no longer exists as an intermediary between riders and the Forestry Commission, I'm not sure who to refer the complaint to. The students say they had received advice from someone in authority to hold the race and determine the route. There should therefore be joint liability between the students and their advisor to reinstate the trails to their pre race condition at their own expense, not using funds raised elsewhere for future trail building projects raised by Bike Blairadam.

Don't worry, we'll be going down there. We're going to get ourselves down there as soon as possible and will do all we can to repair them.

The trails will be back to normal by Easter, however I'm not sure how best to fix them. The club will be going down to dig this week.

This is good news. Thanks Munrobiker.

Any chance of some recent pics of the trails now the weather has improved to see how they look now?

nick1962 - Member
Any chance of some recent pics of the trails now the weather has improved to see how they look now?

Maybe this weekend or next. Can you not pop up and take some yourself?

The club will be going down to dig this week.

When are you going to be there? Can pop along to lend a hand if I'm not racing/training/resting that day.

Fortunateson09 - Member

I'm curious to know what repairs you would expect a 'responsible' race organiser to do if trails were left in that condition?

You hold a race, the trail gets a bit chopped up, what do you do about it? Genuine question.

Would a 'responsible' race organiser have left the trails in they state they are?

The thing is, you need to be proactive, like Bike: Blairadam were and take preventative action before your race. You put type 1 down on sensitive areas to ensure they don't get too damaged by the increased traffic. You try to ensure it doesn't happen (or is as limited as possible) in the first place....

As has been touched upon in this thread, you also make some calls on the day on what sections to use and reroute if necessary. Get people riding the course on the day to see what is working, what isn't and what has the potential to turn out badly. If, for example, there's a flat section thats wet or waterlogged after some rain, it may be best to avoid it.

You have to have a Plan B in case your first choice course has issues.

This sort of thing is what the student organiser/permit holder should have perhaps done on the day or in the run up to the event.

Then, immediately (or as close to immediately) post event, you repair where you can and make appropriate repairs where possible. Re-lay type 1, dig out and/or fill in ruts that have appeared and so on. If a section is waterlogged and muddy, try to drain it if possible and get rid of the wettest mud. Hell, if need be, set up reroutes around affected sections to allow them to recover.

Tiberius, do you fancy a spin around Blairadam tomorrow evening or late tomorrow afternoon?

Any body know if the students have done any repairs yet?

mcmoonter - Member
Tiberius, do you fancy a spin around Blairadam tomorrow evening or late tomorrow afternoon?

Sorry, I can't. I'm working tomorrow (and then all weekend. 🙁 )

jamesy01 - Member
Any body know if the students have done any repairs yet?

I went to check their website for any news on this but it seems to be down.

[url= http://staucc.co.uk/ ]http://staucc.co.uk/[/url]

Looks like it's up and running again....for a minute I was thinking they'd done a moonlight flit 😀

So, Munrobiker, did you ever go back?

So, Munrobiker, did you ever go back?

Based on what I saw on my last visit I'd say no, but I'm be happy to be proved wrong. 🙂

The trails will be back to normal by Easter

Easter 2011?

Dougal - Member
There is the option to take this further...

Luke and the St Andrews University Cycling Club were organising the event on behalf of Scottish University Sports. I'm sure they'd be interested to hear about the poor legacy that has been left at the event location. http://www.susport.org.uk/

The St Andrews Sports Union might also like to hear about how one of their member clubs is bringing their name into disrepute. http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/sport/au/

I'll just leave those there.

Time to draft some e-mails?

jamesy01 - Member
Looks like it's up and running again....for a minute I was thinking they'd done a moonlight flit

Maybe they have.

The "UH OH - the STW massive are on yer backs..." thread on their website has been removed too. ❓

imo a lot of the photos you have taken of the trails look fairly pathetic and what i would call i woodland trail anyway, some muddy areas in a pine forest after some rain? flippin heck i would never have guessed!
I agree there seems to be some post race work needing to be done it sounds like your being a bit pathetic and just looking to have a go at some students because they are students!

Time to draft some e-mails?

Should we make collective complaint to the two bodies above or complain individually? How about a ride up there to discuss it?

anus - Member
imo a lot of the photos you have taken of the trails look fairly pathetic and what i would call i woodland trail anyway, some muddy areas in a pine forest after some rain? flippin heck i would never have guessed!

I'm sorry that you've not been able to read the thread properly (were you busy congratulating yourself on such a well thought out and humourous ID?) or visit the forest to see the damage yourself. I'm assuming that you're familiar with the forest, yes?

Maybe you could try to do one or both of these before commenting again?

I agree there seems to be some post race work needing to be done it sounds like your being a bit pathetic and just looking to have a go at some students because they are students!

So you agree, but just want to hurl childish insults and contradict yourself? That's great. thanks for your contribution.

Maybe the sponsors would be interested?

[img] [/img]

geoffj - Member
Maybe the sponsors would be interested?

I hadn't thought of that.

mcmoonter - Member

Time to draft some e-mails?

Should we make collective complaint to the two bodies above or complain individually? How about a ride up there to discuss it?

I'd say individually, but that's just my opinion.

i read the whole thread through and the more i read the more it seemed you were all over reacting, the photos that you have provided people who do not know the forest personally suggest a trail that is not to distant from a usual forest trail, hence your rants and complaints seem over the top and seemingly pathetic. I agree there needs to be some work done, but nothing to the extent you are all winging about. it seems like because the culprits are students you feel you can have a go even more than usual because students are [b]always [/b]in the wrong.

It's exam time/end of year deadlines/start of summer projects (at least at Edinburgh Uni), therefore I would give them a little slack until the end of the month.

While I can understand your frustration that nothing has been done yet, nothing will be achieved by putting pressure on them at the moment, and I think contacting sponsors etc. at a time when students simply do not have the time to do anything about it, is not fair (regardless of their perceived attitudes to-date). The Edinburgh Uni club have stopped regular club rides at the moment due to exams, and I imagine St. Andrews will be the same. Wait until June before hassling them again.

Anus

it seems like because the culprits are students you feel you can have a go even more than usual because students are always in the wrong. it seems like because the culprits are students you feel you can have a go even more than usual because students are always in the wrong.

The complaint would be the same if the event had been run by the WI.

Kit, the repairs should have been undertaken immediatly after the event. Students have exams then go off home or elsewhere for the summer. I was a student once too.

From the responses on here and elsewhere, neither the students nor their 'Blairadam' contact has taken any meaningful steps to repair the trails to their pre event condition.

I'm drafting a letter as we speak, and I would urge other Blairadam users to consider doing this too. Its a great forest, with challenging trails that is well used by its local community of riders, many of whom have had hand in buildng and maintaining the trails on a voluntary basis.

The event damage was bad enough, but a seasons rain has compounded the initial damage and made it a whole lot worse.

Kit, the repairs should have been undertaken immediatly after the event.

I agree! And action to-date appears to be piss poor. But any correspondence to the student body at this time will simply be ignored as they have more pressing (yes, can you believe it!) matters.

And to correspond with sponsors at a time when the students are not able to actually do anything strikes me as a wee bit underhand.

Considering that as far as I can tell no one has emailed the club officially to ask them to fix it its not surprising that nothings been done. Complaining to SUS and the sponsors seems very silly when like Kit mentions this time of year there's no chance of anything getting done and when (afaik) no one has contacted them other than through this forum?

According to someone on mtbfife the trails really arnt all that bad either?

"Yes, the trails were muddy (it's not Blairadam without mud, after all), but under the surface mud the base of the trail was pretty solid. I came off after a couple of hours with a big grin on my face; I'll be back very soon."

'It's pointless complaining becuase I can't do anything about it [b]right this minute[/b]'.

What a load of crock. I must try it at work sometime, just for the giggles.

I think the fact peeps havn't heard anything, means they're hoping the issue will go away of its own accord. Get it back on the radar for after exams, and get some real committment to fixing stuff up.

Or they could grow some, repeat that they had permission to race there and they don't think the damage is that bad, if that is what they think. Offer to lend a hand as a gesture of goodwill. That is what I'd probably do, TBH.

With the time you have spent moaning on here, you could have fixed the trails yourselves. Fact.

McMoonter - I know the chap in real life. I know he has been doing exams and stuff but I suspect you will need to put pressure on both him and the university. email me if you need more details but try to get to him thru the uni first.

I think contacting sponsors etc. at a time when students simply do not have the time to do anything about it, is not fair (regardless of their perceived attitudes to-date).

Perhaps, but just perhaps one of the sponsors (maybe a bike shop with a branch in St Andrews) may have enough influence to get something going.

And let's face it, they may have exams coming up, but they are still likely to be putting in fewer hours than folk with work and family commitments.

And if they are doing finals the only hold the uni might have is to stop them qualifying until the damage is repaired

Just got a text from him; says he has read the thread on STW and is fleeing to Chile.

If you rush to Edinburgh airport, you just might catch him.

Perhaps, but just perhaps one of the sponsors (maybe a bike shop with a branch in St Andrews) may have enough influence to get something going.

And let's face it, they may have exams coming up, but they are still likely to be putting in fewer hours than folk with work and family commitments.

Can I ask what the whole contacting sponsors will achieve?
I'd also argue that at the moment most of my uni friends are working 8-11pm (don't know how they do it) Although I've just handed my dissertation in and haven't slept for 38 hours fun times!

I hope this thread continues for a while it's becoming a study in over-reaction.

Its hardly over reaction. Check the date of the beginning of the thread The St Andrews mtb club held an event on public land and (poorly advised) made a mess of it. They promised to repair it months ago but have so far done nothing.

If I was a Blairadam regular I would have already made formal compliant to the university. I think the people whose work was trashed have been fairly relaxed