[Closed] Blackwater Valley Path - closed to bikes Farnborough to Ash Vale

Maybe time for a local press awareness campaign - 'local company places lives in danger' SHOCK HORROR type stuff.

But if the signs disappear what's going to happen if you ride it?

I'd heard that long term prior use only applies to horses. Don't know if that's true though, plus considering in law bikes are treated the some as horses when it comes to rights of way then I feel the same should apply here.

Fishery areas are odd though. They do like to block people out, including walkers, build up high fences, block off views. Shame as they're often nice lakes. Though I can understand they don't want pikeys setting up for free fish, and there are a fair number of them around Ash 😉

[quote=deadkenny said]
Fishery areas are odd though. They do like to block people out, including walkers, build up high fences, block off views. Shame as they're often nice lakes. Though I can understand they don't want pikeys setting up for free fish, and there are a fair number of them around Ash

True dat 😉

There is already a huge fark off fence delimiting the path from the lakes and pedestrians are still free to use it.

I've fired off an Email to the BVP people to see what they know about it (as they produced the laminated signs).

I still rode the section of course.

Looks like Hollybush need to update their [url= http://www.hollybushlakes.co.uk/ ]website[/url]

Stocks of fish are rising in the river and with the construction of the pathway
which runs for 23 miles has opened up much of this area to walkers [b]as well
as a cycle path [/b]which follows for most of its length. This pathway meanders
through many nature reserves, country parks, water sports facilities and
Hollybush Lakes Fishery.

Yeah I saw that.

I'm wondering if the lakes have been sold, there's been a massive development of the lake area in the last few months.

Edit: Although perhaps not. From that same website "At the present time only Station Lake is open for fishing with the remaining "pits" undergoing extensive grounds maintenance and restocking of fish."

Yes, unfortunately you can't claim BW rights by historic use by bikes alone. It however doesn't preclude a claim by horse riders, but seeing as it doesn't say “no bikes / horses”, just “no bikes” they probably will focus their time / effort elsewhere.

Having had a squint at the route (~SJ 4885 5294) the cycle path is marked as 'other route with public access'. For some reason the landowners have withdrawn their permission for just bikes, which they are entitled to do.

I'd ring them up in the morning and ask very nicely what their plans for an alternative route is, restricting it after ~20 years would make me very miffed TBH (or just inclined to ignore them)

F that.

Anyone been stopped yet?

Looks like we could divert over the bridge into Dukes Park and back round that way, but why should we?

I know that path well and use it a fair bit. I used to commute along it

AND I also used to work for Redland Aggregates, now Lafarge, who used to give me a free ticket to fish some of those lakes as THEY owned them and simply leased them to the fishing syndicate/club.
Admittedly this is a while ago, but I'd suggest that someone contacts Lafarge...

Lafarge had a concrete plant in the yard now leased out to the skip hire company at the North Camp end of Hollybush Lane and still have one at the other end in the industrial estate.

It's owned by Hollybush Fisheries. The signs only went up this week and who's going to stop you ? 🙂

I've fired off an Email to the BVP people

It will be interesting to hear what they say. I used to be part of the Blackwater Valley User Group, but when the chairman left the BVCT it stopped.

Apparently, the signs have now gone...................

I'll post up the details when/if I get a reply (they've been very good in the past at replying when reporting path blockages etc).

Apparently, the signs have now gone...................

Not surprised!

BVP response (by Email and also on their [url=

page[/url] )

We are pleased to know that cycle use of the path is appreciated. We are very disappointed with the current problem and any help you can offer to restore the use will be welcomed. Public access to this section of path is by a permissive agreement between the landowners and Rushmoor Borough Council for a footpath, and unfortunately the new land owner has withdrawn permission for cycling. We have been asked to post signs and amend our publications to reflect this.

We are currently trying to find a safe alternative route for cyclists to take that doesn't involve busy main roads. We are hoping that the MOD will allow us to detour through their land but obviously this will still be a much longer route than previously. As soon as we able to provide a continuous cycling route once again we will publicise this and put up maps. Please feel free to contact Rushmoor Borough Council or the land owner in regards to your concerns as well.

So a "gerroffmoilaaarnd" attitude from a new land owner.

MoD would be tricky. They're in a "gerroffmoilaaarnd" mood at the moment also.

Exactly.

MoD would be tricky. They're in a "gerroffmoilaaarnd" mood at the moment also.

Just heard that Landmarc are in the process of closing off one of the parking areas for Hawley Woods, although quite what they hope it will achieve I don't know.

Landowner is in dispute with the County Council (not quite sure if Hants or Surrey as the Blackwater River is the county border on this section - although I suspect it is Hants).

So he is taking it out on all local authorities by removing co-operation - quite why this manifests as banning cycling but not walking is anyone's guess, doesn't sound as though logic is involved.

Rushmoor Council hope this may blow over in time, but in the interim it looks like it comes down to how determined the landowner is to enforce this.

Seems perfectly simple to me

If Rushmoor Borough Council feel that there is a need for the route, and it clearly is since there are no safe alternatives, then they are [i]perfectly[/i] able to give the landowner an ultimatum that he reopens the route or they will push through a creation order for a bridleway (or even a footpath creation order together with an immediate upgrade to a cycle track)

Go and make yourselves pains in the arse to the local councillors!

Good point.

Anyone on here a local Hampshire resident ? (The Surrey/Hampshire country boundary runs along the river at the section in question with the path being in Hampshire).

I'm a local Hampshire resident.

Do the County Council have the power to create a PROW by force? Anyone know the legal position?

Councillor details for the ward

http://www.rushmoor.gov.uk/article/4610/St-Marks

one of which is the current Mayor!

http://www.rushmoor.gov.uk/article/1644/Councillor-Diane-Bedford

and "Member of: [b]Leisure [/b]and Youth Policy and Review Panel"

Do the County Council have the power to create a PROW by force

Absolutely Yes

it can take time if there are objections, but given its been used for some considerable time under agreement, then it would be very difficult to raise a valid objection - if nothing else I think it represents a hard bargaining chip - 'hard way or easy way'

I'm dropping a mail to the lady I know on the Hampshire countryside access forum now.

We had a recent local issue where a well used bridleway, which was also part of a well known cross county footpath, turned out to only have permissive rights through someones yard. Came to light when they couldn't sell the house.

They withdrew the right of way but after a fuss in the press the path got rerouted around the boundary of the property.

I'll be raising it at Rushmoor Cycle Forum. Hoping to get the CTC involved, there's a journo on the case too.

Might it not be an idea to find our exactly why cyclists are not permitted but walkers are? May give you some ammunition.

Good luck with it.

There are other sections of the BVP where cycle access has never existed and are ped. only. So I guess it's harder to create a case for cycle access to be forced thorough by the council when this section is now at parity with (some) other existing sections.

I emailed Rushmoor BC about this and they've replied to say that they've forwarded it to Hants CC.

Wait to hear their response................

It would appear that the signs are technically incorrect. The landowner never gave permission for cyclists to use the path originally, so he hasn't 'withdrawn' permission, just never granted it in the first place (and it understandably a bit miffed that it has been promoted as a cycle path).

If people have been using it for twenty years without permission, then it's a good chance to.claim a right of way by prescription 😀

Thanks to all who showed up for a photocall with the local paper last night!

Unfortunately the landowner has now set up some 8ft high metal barriers at the North Camp end of the contentious section, with hinges and a gate-stop. Clearly his next step will be to attach the missing gate and lock all users out completely 🙁

As an update, as offthebrakes stated, the landowner has now installed gates at either end of the section in question and locked them. So the path is now unavailable to all users.

****

[IMG] [/IMG]

That's a tad provocative!

Off topic but does anyone ride the path north of blackwater station? Got a new job and scoping out commuting options

It would be a shame if all the local dog walkers started flinging their doggy bags over the fence.

...or superglued the lock. Tut tut.

Was going to post earlier, but being new had to wait 4 hours.....then I went out!
However, I too discovered pad locked gates on my lunchtime ride. I informed the Blackwater Valley Group and Rushmoor council this afternoon, though what good it will do I don't but always worth a try.

Not really very sporting though and I thought the ugly fences around the ponds were enough.....

Aww WHAT????

I commute from Farnborough to Guildford along the blackwater valley and christmas pie trail every day. The gates caught me out too as I hadn't seen any warning. It's a really big problem and I will find an alternative way and post here shortly.

If it's a public footpath, isn't the gates illegally blocking a footpath?

Cant really see a good alternative route, you can go down hollybush lane and get a puncture or run over by a truck better yet approached and risk losing your bike/belongings by travellers pikeys or weirdos that do hang about down there, i know for fact travellers have set up camp underneath the foot bridge before...........other option is go through ramillies park (MOD HOUSING ESTATE), you can access it from the traffic light crossing on the hill of lynchford road in northcamp going towards the motorcycle shops. i know the area quite well and that foot bridge that crosses the A331 onto the BWV path is not a easy task to find as one might think, there's a opening between two house's into a short piece of woodland then a dirt path to the foot bridge.... Next there be a ban on cycling through ramilies park (MOD LAND)........

The Ramillies Park route to the footbridge is the one I would use too.

But it's a long diversion and considerably less suitable than the existing route.

Along with the MOD's recent decision to enforce their interpretation of the byelaws on the training areas, it's a pretty depressing time for cycling in the area 🙁

[quote=h0lmes said]Cant really see a good alternative route, you can go down hollybush lane and get a puncture or run over by a truck better yet approached and risk losing your bike/belongings by travellers pikeys or weirdos that do hang about down there, i know for fact travellers have set up camp underneath the foot bridge before...........

Believe it or not that is the proposed alternative route suggested by the landowner! In fact he's already installed a signpost at the southern gate directing people down a muddy path and then onto Hollybush Lane! The sign indicates the route is suitable for wheelchairs too.

Here's the "detour"

Potholes not that visible down Hollybush Lane on the vid but you can see the amount of bouncing around that's going on. No trucks using it at the time though which was a bonus 😉

[quote=murraycash said]I commute from Farnborough to Guildford along the blackwater valley and christmas pie trail every day. The gates caught me out too as I hadn't seen any warning. It's a really big problem and I will find an alternative way and post here shortly.

Complain to Rushmoor Borough Council (they have a facebook page you can add comments to). The more people who get in touch the better.

Complain to Rushmoor Borough Council (they have a facebook page you can add comments to). The more people who get in touch the better.

I have done that and started to get more annoyed about the situation.
Councils arrghh

Not exactly ideal, but the canal isn't too far to the east and I used to ride a good distance of that on a frequent basis when I was working at Middleburn and riding from Virginia Water most days.

If I was using the BWV route every day I would be very narked at it suddenly being off-limits 🙁

Cheers, Rich

Was any public/tax money used to build/improve/maintain the now closed path?

[quote=JoeG said]Was any public/tax money used to build/improve/maintain the now closed path?

I believe that the council were/are responsible for surfacing the path and a public funded body (Blackwater Valley Countryside Partnership) certainly maintains it as I've contacted them about fallen trees etc (which they always remove quickly).

Off topic but does anyone ride the path north of blackwater station? Got a new job and scoping out commuting options

At the moment the path North from Blackwater Station to Sandhurst is fine, it can get muddy in the winter though. Make sure that you take the unsurfaced path on the right hand side of the river, the red tarmaced path on the lhs (nearest to the offices) ends in a dead end.

So, start asking questions. Like "why was tax money spent on a path that we no longer have access to?" and "How much was spent?" "Who authorized/approved it?"

I find it hard to believe that a government agency would spend money to upgrade private property unless there were sufficient conditions attached to ensure that they retained access to the improvements.

Local press coverage, and STW get a mention 🙂

http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/local-news/cyclists-residents-stunned-closure-over-7413199

I tried the Hollybush lane route on my hybrid, what a disaster that way is, moon craters all the way down, then left down the path along the lake security fence leading back to the BWV path is s terrible surface littered with glass (so much so it looks almost deliberate). If you like fixing punctures I can recommend it. It's almost better to carry on down Hollybush lane and over the roundabout at the end.

The other way that was mentioned is via Ramilles park and over the A331 footbridge (and the dreaded Hollybush lane) to rejoin the BWV via Hollybush Hill, the old tip which is now a nature reserve. The terrain on Hollybush Hill is grass and a bit rough here but it's a very short distance. The rest is good quality paths or trails. Here is the route: [url= http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5444696 ]Farnborough to Guildford via Tongham[/url]

Another posted mentioned the cut through the woods between 2 houses via a path that abruptly ends and turns into a nondescript grass track. This is found on my route after 5.1 miles. I didn't fancy that and went the longer way round but with a much better track surface suiting my hybrid. I rode this today and it's all good.

Update!

The landowner who has closed this section of the Blackwater Valley Path has applied for retrospective planning permission for all the work he's carried out already (without applying for permission). Part of the plans involve making the path diversion permanent.

It's possible to comment upon the plans [url= http://www3.hants.gov.uk/mineralsandwaste/application-details.htm?id=16284 ]here [/url] (email link at bottom of page) BUT comments have to be submitted by 27th March i.e. this Friday.

Have a look at the excellent comments already submitted by the Rushmoor Cycling Forum [url= http://www3.hants.gov.uk/mw-attachment?location=PLANNING%5C15-00074-HCC%5CObjs%5CCharles%20Halliday%20-%20Rushmoor%20Cycle%20Forum.pdf ]clicky[/url] (you can see all the comments on the second and third tabs of the plan details).

If you're previously used this section of the path and would like it reopened then please submit comments via the first link above, perhaps endorsing the cycling forum points ? That's what I've done. The more people the better IMO.

Bump for the morning crew.