So. This is not a(nother) thread about 'how to', or 'which sealant'; more about how in my experience, tubeless seems to be a bit of a dark art, with some unpredictable things going on.
FS MTB - rock solid tubeless set up. Stan's rims, Maxxis tyres. Haven't used the bike in weeks (it may now even be months) but tyres still holding air, may need a small top up when I eventually head out on it.
Gravel bike - bought some Hunt 4 seasons wheels in January and WTB Resolute tyres. Set them up ok, bead locked to the rim. Held air overnight. But over the first couple of weeks, despite riding daily, needed to top up the air before each ride. Eventually sent the wheels back to Hunt in case there had been a problem with the (pre) taping. They had them for a few days, and after a lot of re-seating (and riding) eventually managed to get them to hold air. Told me that in their experience, WTB tyres beads don't always make a great seal from the off, and can need a while to finally hold securely. They have been pretty good since, maybe a splash of air every few days, but that's ok with me.
But. The valve occasionally leaks sealant. But then seals up again.
And twice, I've gone to the bike for the commute home, to find one or other of the tyres half soft. Pumped back up again, and all is good for a few days/weeks.
Last week I set up another set of Hunt (X Mason) wheels with WTB exposure road tyres. Front went up like a dream (not even needing soapy water) and has held air for a week with no top up needed. Back wheel was a right bugger to seat and set up, tried all the tricks (soapy water, air-shot, levering the bead onto the shoulder etc). That's needed lots of topping up over the week, and laying on its side to get the sealant over the sidewalls. Seemed to be holding air better the last couple of days. But yesterday, went to it (for the return commute) to find it half soft. Pumped up and fine since then. But today, went for the return commute, and the front tyre, which had been solid all week, was half soft!
My wife said to me yesterday "it seems a lot of hassle; I thought tubeless was meant to avoid that". Which seems a fair point ...
So. What are the factors that make a rock solid set up? Is it easier on a MTB, where pressures are lower, so air being forced out the bead/small holes is less of an issue?
Is it some rims/tyres combo? Do WTB have a reputation of being difficult to get securely set up initially?
And what about my tyres being half soft after a day waiting for me at the office? The last two days, I wondered whether being out in the sun and warm weather has caused it? Or perhaps I've picked up a thorn or glass shard towards the end of my commute in and the sealant hadn't had time to properly do its job before I've parked up & gone into the office?
I'm not giving up on tubeless. But it does seem a bit irrationally hit & miss, so I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts about what goes wrong, and what goes right.
So. What are the factors that make a rock solid set up?
Does seem to be luck. I have never had a problem with any of the 10 or so different rims and tyres I have setup tubeless. Last ones took a few rides before losing air in front tyre.
If you have problems with tyre that were previously okay then yes maybe a puncture that hasn't fixed completely.
Whenever I've had tyres going soft over a few days, taking it apart and redoing the tape very carefully (clean everything, lightly sandpaper, etc) has always, so far, fixed it.
I bought a bike in 2002 that came with a UST wheelset, so got on tubeless quite early. First ride the rear went flat round the black route at Glentress, and I had to walk back to my car - what an absolute cauldron of bollox says I to myself.
I realised I hadn't seated the tyre properly (at all in fact), and in the 17 years since I haven't had a single problem setting up MTB tubeless using tubeless rims, new tubeless tyres and a track pump. What an absolute triumphant technology!
(will admit to one or two problems with mounting old tyres over the years, not often though).
On the road I've had no such luck, encountered plenty of issues initially. One reason was a bit spannerish but I forgot how important soapy water can be to lubricate the bead (because it is never needed on the MTB). I've seen this directly solve a couple of road tubeless setups that were totally intractable. But overall I think the relatively high pressures of road tyres just makes things a bit less forgiving, e.g. I've had to start again with retaping like oldnpastit says above a couple of times, which is unheard of for me on the MTB.
Had a tyre go down recently mid ride due to a small slash in the sidewall but it didn't seal because I hadn't topped up the sealant so there was nothing to seal the hole. Took one side off the other night to take the tube out and pop some sealant in but couldn't get the bugger to go up. Ended up retaping the wheel and basically starting from scratch. It was a big job for something that should have been 10 mins tops.
I'd say a lot of it is luck. I can't put my finger on any rhyme or reason to the problems I have sometimes.
What pressures are you using in the gravel bike? A friend has given up on tubeless for the road bike due to the high pressures making it harder for the system to hold them.
I've had no issues with MTB tyres using a variety of taping methods (other than when I was mistakenly using the non tubeless version of a tyre).
Road however I have yet to get working successfully. Just ordered some caffelatex rim strips as they should remove bad taping application as an issue. Road does seem to be a lot more picky!
Good. So it's not just me then!
My front road tyre is playing funny now. Having been fine for a week, it was half soft for the commute yesterday, had to top up air last night, and again this morning. Rear - which was a bugger for the first week - seems fine (ish)
Just ordered some caffelatex rim strips as they should remove bad taping application as an issue.
Let us know how you get on with these ...
Will do.
In my experience mtb works great tubeless, road/gravel isnt worth the hassle. Stick a tube in
In my experience mtb works great tubeless, road/gravel isnt worth the hassle. Stick a tube in
Agree with the first bit. Disagree with the gravel bit, as my set up is now working fairly reliably, just needs a bit of air every few days. But the ride and feel of gravel-tubeless is great.
I'm suspending judgement on road-tubeless though. Think the advantages of running lower pressures are much more minor, chance of pinch flats I guess is much less, so I guess the main supposed advantage is in reducing thorn/glass punctures (and possibly reducing the weight of the wheel/tyre) ... But if this level of faff continues, I might end up sacking it off!
What sealant , they are not all created equal.
Gravel bike - probably needs more sealant. I've had tyres go down overnight, topped up with more Stans and they hold. Probably need pumping up once a week, but I'll live with that for the puncture free riding. Found Spesh 2Bliss hold air on higher pressure tyres best (tried Schwalbe, Spesh and Hutchinson).
[i]And what about my tyres being half soft after a day waiting for me at the office? [/i]
Sounds to me like a puncture that has partially leaked, but sealed before going completely flat.
Definitely a case of some tyres are less hassle than others. I always used Hutchinson on my 26ers and they never needed pumping up. Still have Hutchinson Taipan on my 29er hardtail and same thing, never need pumping. (Shame they're not very good tread-wise). Never got on with Spesh MTB 2bliss and Schwalbe/Maxxis/WTB are good, but all do need a few psi added before most rides.
The common factor there seems to be the WTB road / gravel tyres you're using.
This is not a(nother) thread about [...] ‘which sealant’
It probably should be 😉
What sealant , they are not all created equal.
Absolutely!
I found that Stan's works great for MTB pressures but was hopeless at road pressures - it would seem to hold for a while, but would then start leaking again for no apparent reason.
I changed to Orange seal for the road tyres and it's been fine - one glass cut failed to seal, but there were plenty of sealed up thorns in there when I took the tyre off to patch it.
Pressure only needs topping up every week or two (drops about 10 PSI).
Try not cleaning your rims for a while let them get dusry. You'll soon see where they're leaking from
The common factor there seems to be the WTB road / gravel tyres you’re using.
Well, yes, this had occurred to me. And seemed to be Hunt's view too. Wondered whether anyone else had experienced that problem with WTB tyres.
But also, both wheelsets are Hunts 🤔 ... Although I don't think that is the problem.
Definitely still some seepage from the sidewall of the rear of the road tyre, although oddly, that now seems to be holding air better!
I found that Stan’s works great for MTB pressures but was hopeless at road pressures – it would seem to hold for a while, but would then start leaking again for no apparent reason
Yes, I'm using Stan's in all my wheels (actually, the gravel ones I sent back to Hunt may now have different sealant, ie whatever they use ...). Will give it another couple of weeks and see how it goes, otherwise may opt for a different sealant ...
First impressions of the Caffelatex rim strips is good. They were a piece of piss to install (did it in the car park while my daughter was in her swimming lesson). Tyres went up first time of asking with the valve cores still in (did have to use my inflator rather than just a track pump but that has always been the case on these rims). Sealant in and inflated about 8pm last night and both wheels left at pressure. Both were still up this morning , one over 50psi and the other over 60psi which is about where I left them. No indication of sealant coming out anywhere. Just need to ride them now and see how they do. I am hopeful.
Well. I have had better news since originally posting. Road tyres now holding air (rear still needs a bit of a top up every couple of days to keep at road-ish pressures)
'Interestingly', in the 10 days the 'gravel' wheels/tyres were in the garage off the bike, the rear went pretty soft and now needs topping up every couple of days ... 🙄 ... Have put those wheels back on (was missing the trails!) and hopefully riding them will sort it out.
Sorry, maybe not the response you're looking for but have you tried latex tubes? That's been my choice for CX and gravel duties, nothing but good things to say so far, means you can use lighter/cheaper clincher tyres also, which I think are typically more supple.
Latest reviews of the new Conti GP5000 tubeless tyres by one of the German magazines actually showed that the GP5000 clincher with a latex tube has lower rolling resistance than the tubeless variant, and cheaper, and lighter...
I was an early MTB tubeless adopter, first ghetto, then UST, then back to ghetto. My luck seemed to gradually wear out and every setup became a hassle, went back to tubes and just accepted heavier tyres, life was too short!
Sorry, maybe not the response you’re looking for but have you tried latex tubes?
I wouldn't rule it out.
But
That’s been my choice for CX and gravel duties,
It's working for my gravel tyres now, and I do feel the benefits over the tyres and tubes (admittedly not light latex ones) I used to run. But presumably latex tubes are still susceptible to pinch-flats?
Although the road tubeless set up now seems to be working moderately well, I think the advantages are less clear-cut; you still need pretty high pressures and pinch flats are not that much of a risk I don't think. Guess the main benefit is thorn/glass punctures ...
