[Closed] Bird AM35 Carbon Wheelset

I've had mine for close on a year. Covered about 2500km in all sorts of places and conditions. Including lots of UK slop, 10 days bashing them in the Ardeche and a further 5 in Spain on very rocky trails. Handed them out some ham fisted abuse on drops and jumps.

What's good
- Stiff, light and wide. I use Maxxis DHF, Ardent and Hi-Roller IIs and all of these come up a lovely round profile. Tend to be around 18-20PSI. Came ready taped for tubeless and went up well.
- Good value esp when bought with the bike. Great service from Bird (see below)
- DT Swiss hubs have sharp engagement and roll well (again tho see below)

What's not so good
- the finish on mine wasn't fantastic. Ben@Bird offered to swap the rims over for free to a new pair but I didn't bother. Great offer tho.
- I managed to break two spokes in the rear Spain punching them through the rim tape. Some of this is due to be trying to true it beforehand as the rear had gone a bit wonky after some poor line choices in France. The problem is the aero spokes and lining them up. At the hub end mine got crap in them and could 'slip' in the flange so loosening the tension. Pretty sure this is why I had the issue but it's not my favourite wheel to fix
- To that point had to change the rear hub bearings. Fair enough done a lot of miles. Getting them out is not nice at all and you need a special tool and some brute force. Give me the hopes back!
- Finding tape that'd stick to the carbon rim was a mission but again Bird came through and sent me free spokes and a massive roll of tape.
- Not a fault really but as these are deep section rimmed, as I was trying to insert new spokes on the side of the trail I dropped the nipple into the rim cavity. Oh that was a joy getting that back out 😉

This might not sound great but I love these wheels. First set of Carbon ones I've had and they are noticeable stiffer and lighter than my 'best' other alu wheelset. Some of the issues are definitely down to me and Ben/all the guys at Bird couldn't have been more helpful when I had problems.

So in summary, if I needed some more I'd buy another set.

Thanks Alex for detailed analysis, looks like there are no worries when dealing with Bird then.

The problem is the aero spokes and lining them up

Are you using a bladed spoke holder?

i 'think' they are LB rims, but you get the bird backup too, which is win, win !

Are you using a bladed spoke holder?

I am now 😉 Can't remember when we trued it prior to Spain.

A mate rebuilt the wheel from scratch over Xmas and it's been fine since.

I think they look good, but they are not particularly light which has to be the whole point of going carbon.

not particularly light

Compared with which other wheels?

I thought the point was increased stiffness/strength for a given weight as opposed to just being light. You'd do well to go much lighter and still have a wheelset that will take a battering I reckon.

They look like good wheels but I'd much prefer a Hope hub option. Surely they could sort this out being a UK company.

not particularly light
Compared with which other wheels?

Well the standard 29er wheels that came on my spesh enduro only weigh 1850 - 1900g and thats in 29er format allot transverse 30mm wide rims.

If I was going to drop that sort of money on a new set of wheels I would want them to be much closer to 1500 - 1600g the pair

1605g is as light as I would be willing to go with these wheels on a brass nipple build given their intent - people race (and win) national level DH and Enduro races on them - they are plenty strong. We've got the TR30s which run at 1520g, and some proto wheels at 1320g, but they'd never get close to the rating that we give the AMs. The issue is that while you can make them stiff enough, the amount of carbon you can use in the most vulnerable parts is not enough to withstand rock impacts etc. so you run the real risk of toasting your falrly expensive rims all too easily.

If I was going to drop that sort of money on a new set of wheels I would want them to be much closer to 1500 - 1600g the pair

Instead of counting grams you should try and test ride some. The difference is tangible especially compared to a 29er with lightweight oem alloy wheels.

And that's coming from me who has no carbon anything.

If and when I can afford a set carbon whilst, my money will be going on these. The 350SP hubs would be my choice over Hope, and they're priced well, with good reviews. alas I'm skint

and some proto wheels at 1320g

Interesting... Shout if you want a tester! My 1370g ones seem so lardy 😉

The strength/price/weight/width combination looks good to me especially from someone supplying in the UK and including the ratchet upgrade. I'm lusting after some new wheels and I've seen American Classics Wide Lightnings as a cheaper, lighter alternative but I don't think they would be as strong or reliable.

Interesting... Shout if you want a tester! My 1370g ones seem so lardy

Probably not 25mm internal width either 🙂

Surely they could sort this out being a UK company.

Sort of, ints complicated though... The rims are drilled specifically for the hubs. The problem with carbon rims is that they have a very deep bed compared to alu, which tends to put alot of stress on the nipples/spokes at the exit from the nipple, its not so much of an issue with spokes failing as difficulty in getting the right tension into the wheel - the nipple gets very tight onto the spoke due to the crazy angle, which messes up the build. If you go and look at some other wheels then you'll find the nipples tend to come out too straight. We're drilling the rims for the angles on the DT 350SP which is quite different than say a j-bend hope would be. Add to that the fact that the spokes are made to order for us (we also import the nipples from Italy, but thats just an interesting fact thats all), and then we have 4 colours in 2 sizes all being built in the UK.... it becomes a pain to even think of doing other hubs... my head is hurting just thinking about it.

Oh and they're not LB rims.
Also, Hope would add £100 or so to the cost.

Probably not 25mm internal width either

Quite. Clinchers I presume? What hubs/spokes?

Yes clinchers, hookless of course. DT350SPs (Upgraded ratchet), 28h bladed 3 cross. Alu nips.

Calling @alextemper for a prototype wheel update!

29er? Or 650b? How much do the rims weigh? That seems mad given comparatively heavy hubs.

I was going to ask if DT-specific drilling meant that a lighter build on 240 hubs was possible, but seeing as even the prototypes are on 350s I imagine that's a no...

650 of course! Couldnt get a 29er down to that weight... well we could I guess, but it would be ultra light. The rim mold is designed to spit out rims at 350g. For Alex he asked if we could go lighter, so we got the factory to do a light-as-they-felt-we-could-go rim. It was a decent bit lighter again. TBH I cant remember what his came out at and I don't have the measurements in front of me, with the 350s even with the ratchet swap they might have been heavier than I worked out in my original calculations. We wanted to run 240s but ended up on 350s... Either way, its definitely a 1320 wheelset if you run 240s with the lighter rims. It might be more like yours on the 350s...

EDIT - Just checked an old thread and his came in at just shy of 1360, so 1320 on 240s. My bad. TBH I didn't expect to get into a discussion on them or I'd have checked it out first!

Aaaaah, thought we were talking 29ers based on chrismac and sharkattack's posts.

Don't care now, particularly as they're getting heavier by the post 😉

Sorry for the hijack!

I was going to ask if DT-specific drilling meant that a lighter build on 240 hubs was possible, but seeing as even the prototypes are on 350s I imagine that's a no...

Of course you could. Pillar ti or Sapim Superspokes would save a chunk.

In that case: any plans to eventually introduce a 240 hub option for the retail wheelset?

Or just rims, then use Extralite Hyperhubs and get below 1200g!

Ha ha yeah I guess. I was more thinking of the 'still-under-£1000' weight. On a 29er wheel I think around 1330 is the base level for that price wheel while still maintaining a decent level of smash-ability. Any lighter and you're into XC race only territory (which I appreciate you might be interested in njee).

1330g? That's still very light indeed for 29ers to be fair! Mine are 32h and AM Classic hubs, could definitely have gone a bit lighter without going nuts, but stuff like Extralite has always been too much of a trade off for me on something like hubs. I folded one of their chain rings in half at a Gorrick once.

Not a fan of true 'race day only' stuff, I want to be able to use my kit! I've flirted with stuff that's too fragile/compromised for every day use and it just gets to be a PITA (Stan's alu rotors spring to mind!).

Four months in on the prototypes and still going strong. Conditions haven't been that dry to be fair but still pretty of solid trails and roots to fly into. I tend to turn around 21/24 psi front/rear so I'm sure the rims have hard a fair amount of bottoming out.

Thinking of a similar 29er build but with lighter hubs for my Procaliber judging by how these rims have performed so far.

Are you going to do the rear hub in 148 boost size Ben?

@benpinnick - do you do the AM35's in deeply unfashionable 26 inch flavour? just had a look on your website and not clear

In answer to various questions:

240s - probably not as standard option - the difference in weight doesn't really justify the vast cost difference. We're talking adding £200 ish to the price to save 40g. We're there enough demand we'd buy them in direct from the factory making them a lot cheaper (the hubs that is). but we need to buy big numbers before that could happen.

26ers - sorry not on the radar. Just not enough demand.

148s? Yep I would expect that could happen. The aftermarket for 148 is pretty weak right now as theres mainly brand new bikes only running boost, but I could see that happening in the near future.

Am I thick - I can't find wheels on the Bird website. I can only see bikes (other than the clearance section).

Second to last menu option

Out of stock until February on the website.

[url= http://shop.birdmtb.com/wheels.html ]http://shop.birdmtb.com/wheels.html[/url]

Second to last menu option

Got it now that I know that shop.birdmtb.com exists thanks to the post above. If you don't mind some feedback, shopping from birdmtb.com is a bit confusing. When you hover over "Shop Now" it brings up the bike, frameset, clearance options, so it looks as though those are the only options. Because that menu appears it's not at all obvious that there are other things available if you click the "Shop Now" text.

Don't find it confusing at all, click on Shop now which brings all the options up 😉

Added the extra links 🙂

Hey Ben, are you selling 148mm boost rear wheel sets yet in 650b?