You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
So I've got a decent setup for my MTB with a seat pack, which is fine for 3 or 4 days in conjunction with a backpack. This year though, my wife and I are doing some longer distance touring (the Hebridean Way and possibly the Pictish Way too) on gravel bikes. Along with the getting to/from the start/finish, the Heb Way will end up about 8 days. I'm thinking some small panniers would be ideal for this as it's going to 90%+ on the road. But how will panniers cope with proper gravel like the Pictish Way? It seems they're coming back into popularity for gravelling but I'm just wary of something that rattles constantly which would be super annoying.
Big seat packs can end up swaying a bit and will hold less than a pannier, not to mention be more awkward in use. Handlebar packs can be similar. Interested to hear ideas and opinions if panniers are the way forward. A set of Ortlieb aren't cheap but do seem to last a lifetime.
Are you carrying much more kit on a 8 day trip vs 4 day?
Rattling pannier bag+ bungie cords= slightly squished and non rattly pannier bag.
Source- one of the clips on my pannier bags has snapped and has to be held on with bungie cords
Posh version- voile straps
I've got a similar conundrum; cycling Anglesey to Cornwall later this year, 95% on road. Staying in Hostels/Huts and mates houses, but will need sleeping bag and mat for a couple of nights.
Was thinking bar bag and saddle pack, but worried about swaying. Have a rack and panniers already, but was thinking that's heavy. Have already done a test ride of the front setup and was thinking it was a bit cluttered with drop bars/lights and GPS.
I have small Vaude Pannier bags, they're solid having done lots of touring on the front of my tandem, but they're heavy...
I guess I could strap a dry bag to the top of the rear rack? Might be an option for you, @vww instead of saddle bag. All these suffer from access compared to pannier bags though....
For a non-swaying saddle bag I use an Alpkit Big Papa (16L?) with one of their Exo Rails, holds it super solidly. I combine that with an Ortlieb quick rack and gravel panniers for longer trips.
Do your front forks have braze ons? You can strap dry bags to cargo racks if you're cheap (that's what I do), or you can get bags that fit on them.
Tailfin will sell you some fantastically engineered by incredibly pricey solutions if you're feeling flush.
this is rattle free - just add an additional lower clip and on the main rack rails, wrap some tape so the hooks are a tight fit.
@rootes1 what sort of rack is that and what did you mean by
add an additional lower clip
as I could not make out in the photo what you are referring to. Apologies if I am missing something blindingly obvious.
I did the KAW with some ortliebs. Just bought a set of extra lower clips for the panniers, but this doubled up for the commute as I was having to use a bungee on my off road commute. No need for the bungee and they performed brilliantly. Shame my rack was fixed on with P-clips as the CX bike has no fixings at all. Worked, but swayed a bit - not used to that.
Not quite blindingly obvious but I now think you mean install a 2nd one of these to help anchor the pannier to the rack lower down where they tend to rattle.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/luggage/0-ortlieb-ql21-lower-anchoring-hook-inc-mounting-screws/?geoc=MU
I've been very pleased with the Ortlieb Quickrack/Carradry Universal combo I've been using since September. Much more secure and less rattly than the Ortlieb panniers I used for years on Tubus and Old Man Mountain racks.
The extra hook I installed on the bottom probably helps.
The dedicated Ortlieb panniers will probably be even more secure, at the cost of flexibility re: use with other brands of rack.
https://road.cc/content/review/192032-carradice-carradry-universalfront-panniers-pair
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/bike-forum/ortlieb-quick-rack-curious/#post-13537200
If you want I can dig out some old photos of the many ways that Ortlieb panniers can fail in spectacular fashion mid-trip...
Rootes 1 your bike looks good in the pic however it looks like a great Dane or some other big dug got caught short and shat on your pannier
It looks like it needs a wash and a bottle of Dettol poured over it
Panniers work fine on gravel. They usually come with plastic spacers to ensure a good fit to pannier rack rails. I have been using panniers in NZ. If you do get a rattle a strap or bungie sorts it
Cheers @montgomery
As I have already bought and used Ortlieb Panniers (on a v old rack which doesn't really work with disc brakes) I'll give you kind offer on failures a miss.
It's the rack I need to sort and just waiting for more info on the thru-axle mount from Ortlieb due out .. ... shortly 🤞
Not quite blindingly obvious but I now think you mean install a 2nd one of these to help anchor the pannier to the rack lower down where they tend to rattle.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/luggage/0-ortlieb-ql21-lower-anchoring-hook-inc-mounting-screws/?geoc=MU
Yep just that, and additional lower hook, Ortileb 'gravel' panniers come with a second lower hook by default by the way.
Cheers @montgomery
As I have already bought and used Ortlieb Panniers (on a v old rack which doesn't really work with disc brakes) I'll give you kind offer on failures a miss.
It's the rack I need to sort and just waiting for more info on the thru-axle mount from Ortlieb due out .. ... shortly 🤞
I'm using an Axle mounted Old Man Mountain rack - bomb proof!
Rootes 1 your bike looks good in the pic however it looks like a great Dane or some other big dug got caught short and shat on your pannier
It looks like it needs a wash and a bottle of Dettol poured over it
was muddy out - 0-2degs, over night off road winter ride from Woking to Portsmouth - was very wet and muddy!
I'm using an Axle mounted Old Man Mountain rack - bomb proof!
Yeah, I've broken two of those as well. Nothing lasts forever.
Panniers work fine. New Ortleib clips work better than the ones on my 20yr old ones. I use a strap to hold panniers on tighter if it’s rough. Only rattle you can get is if the top clips are too big but as said above you can get spacers.
Has anyone any experience of the Altura Vortex Ultralite panniers?
The Old Man Mountain racks don't break they will wear through the aluminium as it's quite soft. You should set the pannier hooks and lower clip to make sure you have no movement ( rubbing through the aluminium) . Done rough tracks in Spain and Morocco , the Ortlieb hook is slightly too big , tape up the contact points on the rack and all is good. Been reports of wearing through the aluminium on forums. Tubus steel racks don't have an issue with wearing through the metal. If they do an alternative to the Elkhorn rack will buy them.I'm using an Axle mounted Old Man Mountain rack - bomb proof!
Yeah, I've broken two of those as well. Nothing lasts forever.
Extensive bike packing and off-road touring done with panniers. Panniers are great!
Voiles are great to stop the rattling, or any strap.
We bought https://northstbags.com/en-gb/collections/bike-panniers/products/adventure-micro-pannier-21l these last year and they are fantastic and silent. Handled 6 week off-road tour last summer, front and rear.
Rootes1 what is your frame? It looks very comfortable
A lot of pannier rattling and bouncing around can be easily fixed with an extra strap or two to hold them to the rack. Aside from perhaps aero considerations for endurance racing, panniers are a good practical option for any touring inc gravel. They might encourage taking a lot of stuff but that's up to you.
Did a trip across Normandy last September with a mate. A combination of roads, cycle tracks and gravel. He was using a pair of Ortlieb Gravel Pack panniers. They were solid and rattle free, as well as being a doddle to fit and remove.
https://uk.ortlieb.com/products/gravel-pack
I've used my Tailfin system with 10 and 22 litre panniers on seriously rough and rocky mtb routes (as well as for road tours). No rattles, easy on/off, no extra straps needed. They might cost more than other systems but they work perfectly.
Note- I have used Ortlieb and others with various racks. They were fine for road use but noisy and less stable on anything remotely rough.
Back in the day i used Panniers off road and never had a problem. Well some Karrimor clips broke but they were fixed with string.
More recently I’ve just been strapping a 30 litre dry bag on top of my rack
With regards the original question. I do not get why you need any more capacity for 8 over 4 days.
That is unless you want to carry 8 days of food but why would you?
Hi,
As far as I'm concerned I invented the extra clip on Ortlieb panniers several years ago!
Have done lots of trips including the Heb Way with panniers which is very road based. Always accepting carrying luggage is not as much fun off road!
I have tried saddle packs from Alpkit and the in frame bag from Alpkit (which is great but doesn't add much capacity) but for a long time my preferred option is two 20 lt city rollers, with the rightsized top rail clip inserts (11mm or 16mm depending on rack), two lower rack clips and a rack with a good bit of triangle.( I have a Salsa one and Tubus previously) and a couple of Velcro cable tidy straps.
Fit the lower clips so you have to push the pannier down into the rack lower legs before the top clips connect, using the Velcro cable tidy straps around the top handle to the rack top bar, just in case the pannier comes loose (has never happened with Ortlieb , did on an Altura pannier).
No rattle or sway and I can carry a decent off the bike costume change including shoes.
Why more stuff for 8 days than 4? Well, for 4 I've got a 12L front dry bag on the bars, 8L seat pack, a small backpack with water, and a tool keg in a bottle cage. That's on my FS MTB. Excessive? Maybe. But it was fine to ride with, had everything I needed, think I used just about everything and had enough space to cram in food when I knew I wouldn't be able to get more for a while.
But the front bag won't fit on my gravel bike between the bars. And I really don't want to ride with a backpack either. So there's about 20L less space to play with. Just seemed like panniers like the smaller (14-15L each side) Ortlieb ones would work well, be easy to pack, and have plenty of space. Could definitely take less stuff, but it's also a holiday, and it's the Hebrides. I want to be comfortable off the bike, and warm/dry if the weather isn't great.
Thanks for all the replies. Seems like panniers with a double clip will be fine for most stuff, with the bonus of being easier to fit and pack than seat packs etc.
@vww I understand now. Nothing at all against panniers. In fact I have been looking at the tumbleweed for my gravel bike. These https://tumbleweed.cc/collections/racks
Couple of articles for you https://bikepacking.com/gear/ortlieb-quick-rack-review/
And https://bikepacking.com/gear/mounting-mini-panniers-and-cargo-cages-on-a-quick-rack/