Bikepacking type bike thoughts, including disc sizes

Cotic Cascade.

I am tempted by a cascade. However ideally I’d buy a frame that took a double up front. The Cotic does take a 180mm disc on the fork which would help.

Occasionally I will get my front disc nice and hot when loaded and the hill is steep and long, but it's never faded or caused any problems. Personally I think getting a brake nice and hot every now and then is good for burning crap off!

A Sonder Camino frame will apparently take 700x50 or 650b x2.2" tyres.

Not sure about disc sizes, but I'd expect you'd be able to fit a proper sized disc on them.

Never looked or tried but could you fit 4 pot calipers to drop levers?

I've got a rigid MTB for bike packing duties. Previous one had 180 rotors and two pots. A few times I ended up with no brakes at the bottom of big fast descents. New bike has 180 rotors but 4 pots. They've never let me down yet. So in my case the caliper size was more important than the rotor.

Ahhh. Just realised. You'll likely be flat mount. So adaptors would be needed if you could make it work.

In fact. Just sack off the drop bar bike idea. Get a rigid MTB! Whenever I've seen people on drop bar bikes at bike packing events they always look like they've brought a knife to a gun fight 😂

Personally I'd be looking at a Fearless Warlock (bar the requirement for a front mech) if you're spending that kind of money, but in reality I think people overthink the whole bikepacking bike thing. I've been quite happily riding an old 26" Rockhopper frame with P2 forks for the last three years, but am about to swap over to a cheap rigid 29" setup that I'm sure will be equally competent.
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As far as I can remember, Flat Mount calipers target 140mm with no spacer and 160 with, hence all the drop bar frames with 160 rear discs.

If you want larger, your monstercross idea - essentially, a 29er frame but possibly with drop bars - might be the way to go. Post mount rear opens up caliper sizes.

Aha - there are also frames designed for fm160 rear which might go to 180 with an adaptor. 180 on the forks is also easier to arrange. Possibly worth speaking to the frame company to find out more.

(I am about 90kg, and ride 160 front/rear on my gravel bike, but am also a terrible cyclist so haven't come near overheating anything)

I've a gravel bike and have bikepacked with it, but I actually prefer my HT if there's rough stuff involved - just feels a nicer place to be and no need to worry about rough descents plus far easier when loaded off-piste.

I looked at the Pennine Bridleway and the consensus was that a HT was a better option than a gravel bike - and the video's I watched seemed to confirm too.

Flat mount road brakes for a loaded bike isn't a great idea but if you want the road STI+hydro combo it makes anything else a minor faff now. I'd just mix and match the calipers to get a PM frame and fork.
There are a few forks set up for FM flipped to 160-180mm but it's not so common and the pads for FM calipers still tend to be smaller. A 180mm rotor at least on the front is a good thing.

But the possibility of over heating the brakes seems very real.

180 F and R is possibly ott for UK use but I have 180s F+R on my 29er that's used for bikepacking (75kg rider, generally under 7kg of kit on it). It's a cable disc so the larger rotor helps keep the heat down and the tyres can handle the brakes. My gravel bike on cable disc 160 F+R gets cooked on long steep Italian descents but is fine everywhere else with the same load on it.
Sometimes it's more about the bike than where you ride - on a loaded 650B tyred drop bar bike I might be on the brakes most of the time down a Welsh byway, just trying to keep the speed down. Whereas the same trail on the 29er I can let it run off the brakes for much longer.

Personally I think getting a brake nice and hot every now and then is good for burning crap off!

+1

+1 on terrain dependant. I have a Topstone Lefty on 650 x 47 and a Giant Fathom 29er on 2.4's and find the Giant more fun in many situations once loaded up. Yes, it is a bit slower, but I'm not often in a rush

I've always run 160mm mono minis on my bike pack bike.

Building a cuthroat just now and gone for rx4s to get the bigger calipers and bigger pads James speaks of as the stock Shimano units just wear out too quickly on my road bike ....not going near off road with em

Wow thanks for all the responses.

So I just phoned sonder. The Camino is out. Just not enough stack for me. They put a 5cm limit on spacers under the stem. FYI it’s 60mm flat mounts

Starting again on a flat bar bike is probably a good shout. Something like the sonder frontier in this months magazine. Or build up a brother cycles Big Brother

Ok so if I went for a 29er mtb shouldn’t it have a suspension fork? In really confused about this . I can comfortably ride loads of stuff on my gravel bike with rigid forks. But I look at a rigid mountain bike with bigger tyres and think that looks uncomfortable over bumps.

The closest I’ve been to over overheating my current discs was coming into Stroud down a sustained 20% gradient. To blind and narrow to let the bike go

Ok so if I went for a 29er mtb shouldn’t it have a suspension fork?

Personal choice. If you're going to ride it like a LS hardtail then you'd likely prefer suspension but if it's for slightly-gnarly gravel then a rigid fork is lighter and may even have luggage mounts.

Don't get hung up on bike choice. I reckon every ride has a point where you've the "wrong" bike.

This^^
Choose your weapon bike, then adapt or die. 😉

You're overthinking it.

Even bikepacking on a CX bike with 160/140 rotors I've not had issues, if there are any long non technical descents you just manage the braking accordingly (apply either brake for a couple of seconds, then swap and let it cool).

Also a subscriber to the idea that it's a good idea to get the brakes properly hot at least once a ride, even if it's just dragging them down a tarmac hill afterwards. It burns the crap off them and beds the renewed surface in. It seems to make them last a lot longer, especially if riding in brake pad destroying condition, my hypothesis is that the bedding in process hardens the surface of the pad, then wear reveals softer material. If you don't then get that material hot you're just wearing it away quickly as it's never properly bedded in.

I am tempted by a cascade. However ideally I’d buy a frame that took a double up front. The Cotic does take a 180mm disc on the fork which would help.

There was some talk on the solaris thread about using a side swing front mech, I suppose it depends on clearance and seat tube diameter though.

Brakes not an issue. I’m 100kg and I’ve never cooked a brake. Don't worry about it.
I doubt you’d drag the brake all the way down a hill. Even if you did the world won’t end.

Ok so if I went for a 29er mtb shouldn’t it have a suspension fork?

A big front tyre (2.6 and above) is all you need. The lower pressure you can run it at gives you a surprising amount of comfort. I ride the descents I come across as if I'm on a much more "capable bike" (hence the 4 pot brakes as well) and it rarely feels out of its depth. The bike actually handles the rougher stuff much better when loaded up as the extra weight stops it feeling skittish.

I find a rigid bikes only downfall is repeated braking type bumps and very chunky constant rocky terrain. Hitt that stuff quick and you'll be convinced your about to snap the fork off 😂. You've just got to chill out a bit on those and pick your line Anything else is fair game. I think you'd be surprised.

I'm very much in the MTB bike packing camp though. I choose routes to have the best descents in as I would a normal ride so I'm biased with my advice towards that.

Even bikepacking on a CX bike with 160/140 rotors I’ve not had issues, if there are any long non technical descents you just manage the braking accordingly (apply either brake for a couple of seconds, then swap and let it cool).

Yep been there. Which is fine when the bikes what you’ve got and you’re making do. Spending cash to build a bike for a purpose and needing to nurse the brakes seems odd. Particularly when MTB brakes are so good. But as ever the cycling industry has a narrow view of what a drop bar bike is. Although in this case they may be correct

Personal choice. If you’re going to ride it like a LS hardtail then you’d likely prefer suspension but if it’s for slightly-gnarly gravel then a rigid fork is lighter and may even have luggage mounts.

Don’t get hung up on bike choice. I reckon every ride has a point where you’ve the “wrong” bike.

Two good bits of advice here

In think one of the reasons I keep going back to the idea of a drop bar bike is that I don’t think I can properly MTB on a hardtail. I’ve got a bit of cartridge damage which means that I’m no good with big hits through the pedals. Both current bikes are fine. Riding a rigid mtb as a gravel bike should be fine.

Of course once on a ride I’m fine. I just get on with it using the tools at hand. Whether that’s road on an FS bike or steep stuff on the gravel bike

 

Plus one on overthinking it, I’m not heavy but never even got close to overheating my 160mm flat mount grx on 5 days Pennine rally. Just get hydro grx on your current bike and go enjoy brakes that work and have fun!

Just putting it out there.. I've got a 2020 Brother Big Bro frameset for sale, black, medium, VGC. Fire me a PM if you're interested

Agreed, you're unlikely to properly overheat a brake in the UK but I've seen and know of a fair few loaded bike brakes with overheating problems needing shop attention in France and Italy. I haven't been abroad for a couple of years but still prefer how my bigger brakes work for loaded UK/Wales trips.

Ok so if I went for a 29er mtb shouldn’t it have a suspension fork? In really confused about this. I can comfortably ride loads of stuff on my gravel bike with rigid forks. But I look at a rigid mountain bike with bigger tyres and think that looks uncomfortable over bumps.

A 29er should have less weight on the bars and be more comfortable than the gravel bike (unless a gravel bike has got so MTB-like it's just a 29er with drops), a rigid fork should be ok. It'll still be a more capable bike off-road than pretty much any gravel bike.

I’ve used gravel bike, rigid mtb and full sus mtb for bike packing and next year I think I’m going to use a HT if there’s much off road on a route, it just makes it more comfortable, especially on rocky trails like the Pennine Bridleway. If I make it to Iceland I’ll use the rigid MTB with plus tyres just because it’s a simpler machine, less to go wrong. I’m way over 100kg and not inclined to pack just a bivvy bag and sleep in a ditch so my set up is probably relatively heavy. I’ve put 200/180 rotors on the HT, 180/180 on the rigid bike and 180/160 on the gravel bike. Having bigger rotors can’t hurt and can only help with stopping I figure.

Just putting it out there.. I’ve got a 2020 Brother Big Bro frameset for sale, black, medium, VGC. Fire me a PM if you’re interested

Very much in XL territory here. But thanks

I don't think you need worry about the brake set up so much.
Once you add luggage, most people drop into a more relaxed mode. Speed on descents doesn't matter... as long as it's under control!
Also, on a rigid drop-bar bike, you're unlikely to be under-braked. I actually like my mechanical discs for this sort of riding.

Regarding the Pennine BW... as per others' suggestions, I wouldn't take a gravel bike. I'd ideally take a short travel FS or HT. Also a friend to share all the gates with :-/

50mm and 2.2" are pretty similar in width, aren't they? Is it worth seeing if a 2.2 will fit in your existing bike?

Its all weel and good folk saying the OP is overthinking it, but he/she wants a new bike!...

I’ve got a 2020 Brother Big Bro frameset for sale, black, medium, VGC.

Very much in XL territory here.

If that's the case, and you've already expressed reservations about lack of stack, you need to take a careful look at the XL Big Bro frame specs, specifically the 125mm long headtube (way too short in my opinion).

Yep been there. Which is fine when the bikes what you’ve got and you’re making do. Spending cash to build a bike for a purpose and needing to nurse the brakes seems odd. Particularly when MTB brakes are so good. But as ever the cycling industry has a narrow view of what a drop bar bike is. Although in this case they may be correct

I can see your point, but it's a very minor inconvenience, and only present on the road, on knobblies. On slicks there's enough grip to not need to comfort brake, and off-road you're rarely going fast enough to really need to think about brake temp when just checking your speed. Which demonstrates the next point, if I'm dragging the brakes, I'm probably on the wrong bike anyway.

The "cycling industry" bit, TBH I think the lack of 200mm disked Monstercross drop bar bikes is largely a reflection of them being rubbish. IME once you get beyond what 45-50mm slick-ish gravel tyres and 160mm brakes can offer in terms of control, you're immediately into also benefiting from a 'flat' bar and MTB geometry. I bought into it, and there wasn't one ride where I didn't wish I'd either brought the lighter CX style gravel bike or just a lightweight XC bike. Big tyres blunted all the good stuff about CX bikes being light and nimble, and drop bars just made XC hard work.

Its all weel and good folk saying the OP is overthinking it, but he/she wants a new bike!…

The correct answer then is probably an XC race hardtail.

I went for a cotic cascade (in flat bar mode). it takes 160mm flat mounts as standard which means a +20 flat to post adapter allows me to run 180mm front and rear with my existing post mount brakes. Yes, its supposed to be 1x but I can't really see why a side swing front mech wouldn't work (possibly because side swing mech's aren't compatible with road shifters?)

Its all weel and good folk saying the OP is overthinking it, but he/she wants a new bike

This was the plan. I had even identified a pot of money to spend. My wife told me that there was no longer any point keeping an investment as the admin charges were too hi

I’ll read the tread though again tomorrow. But currently the plan seems to be upgrade the brakes in the current bike. Then buy some bags for the FS bike if I feel the need for more control and comfort

Cheers folks

I did the Badger Divide earlier this year and used my On-One Scandal, camped, so loaded.

On descents having the big bars, upright riding position, 180 discs, strong tyres & dropper etc made all the difference, especially at the end of a long day.

Yes, I could've done it on my gravel bike (a very capable On-One Freeranger with 50c's) - and if I was doing it again (and loaded), I'd definitely be on an MTB.

If you want a bike packing dropbar bike that can take MTB parts, discs and tyres, a Smokestone Mr Harry would fit the bill. However being titanium and made to order, comparatively expensive when looking at steel and other batch production frames.

Stick some Juin tech R1 cable operated hydraulics on the bike you have and quit worrying.

The Juin Tech route is probably the way I'm going with a planned New Year build, having just acquired a pair of these.

My Free Ranger with 160mm discs survived Chimney bank hill - was smoking at the bottom mind. I'm 80kg.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52143002824_749f769049_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52143002824_749f769049_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2nrGw75 ]Chimney Bank Dangerous Hill[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52143246495_bf69d44676_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52143246495_bf69d44676_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2nrHLxi ]Cooked brake discs![/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr