[Closed] Bikepacking - recommended bivvy kit?

Have you looked on [url= http://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpBB3/index.php ]Bearbones[/url]
Alpkit is good value.
Personally I'd go 2 season bag and a light duvet jacket - I find Montane Prisms really good.
A light bag and [url= https://www.alpkit.com/products/cloud-cover ]Cloud cover[/url] duvet is another adaptable way to go.
The mat may be the surprising cost.

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Thanks, I'll check that forum out.

Personally I'd advocate a lightweight sleeping bag / duvet jacket combo, just because they're much more versatile ie round camp fire, sitting up and cooking etc. Also your core body is the most important bit. Combine those with tomorrow's base layers and a beanie and you should be toasty. Problem is how much you are prepared to spend, because you def do get what you pay for in sleeping bags.

I take it you've gone through the reviews and musings at http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co.uk/ where you'll find more than you might want to know.

Sleeping bags: for much of the time in the UK you don't need a bag better than 5C temp rating. You can always add something like a quilt over the top if you do head out in colder climes. I use a 5C bag with a 5C quilt which is good to around -5C. The advantage is that you don't have to buy both at the same time so can save up for longer.

Bivy Bag: Probably best bang for buck is the Alpkit Hunka. Possibly better to go for the XL if you intend to use the above bag and quilt idea as standard size bags don't quite have enough volume and limit the loft of the bag.

Shelter: Given you are thinking about a bivy bag then you are probably looking at a tarp - again Alpkit probably have the best value in the Rig 3.5 which is certainly big enough for one but we've used it for two quite a bit which is alright in the summer but with the extra volume of winter kit it's a squeeze.

£90 for the tarp and the bivy bag so that leaves £110 - £160 for the bag. I think there's better stuff around than the Alpkit bags but they are reasonable value.

Whitestone has it nailed and [url= http://www.bergfreunde.co.uk/mountain-hardwear-lamina-35-synthetics-sleeping-bag/?backlink=eyJ1cmwiOiJcL3N5bnRoZXRpYy10by0wXC8jNTcwYTViNjI2Njk4NTA2OWZhZDgwOTBkZjZjMzUyZWMiLCJoYXNoIjoiM2Q4NGVkZjI2M2NmNTI5MWYyYjc4MjhkZWY4OTllOWEifQ== ]here's[/url] a decent synthetic bag for you that doesn't break the bank.

Think about bulk as well as weight when buying kit.

I'd go for a quilt over a bag (look at Cumulus and UK Hammocks) but not everyone likes them. Thermarest neoair x-lite or Exped Synmat are good mats. Alpkit tarps are hard to beat for value. A down jacket is very handy too.

Lamina's are great. I have a lamina 20 which has kept me toasty down to -9 or so with a down jacket.

The OP asked for kit being used, here's my core list.

PHD Minimus sleeping bag. It was in last year's spring sale and doesn't seem to be a standard model, good for 5C and weighs under 400g, cost £170

Cumulus 150 quilt. Not currently available in the UK (distribution issues apparently) but easily sourced from Europe. Again temp rating is 5C, weighs 375g, cost £115

Winter sleeping pad: Exped Synmat Winterlite . Has an R-value of 6, gives 7cm of padding (see what I mean about winter bulk), weighs 470g, cost £85
Summer sleeping pad: Klymit Inertia X-frame, an ultralight summer inflatable mat, weighs 260g, R-value unknown, cost £75

Bivy bags: I've an Alpkit Hunka XL for winter, so £50 and a Goretex or eVent bivy bag that I've had for ages, can't remember what it cost or even what make it is. Useful for summer but not enough volume for winter.

As for bulk: the PHD bag, Cumulus quilt, Winterlite pad and Hunka will easily go into a 13 litre dry bag.

One thing to note is that a decent sleeping pad will boost the effective temperature rating of your sleeping bag by slowing conduction to the ground. A bit hard to quantify but possibly lets a two season bag work over three seasons. Worth spending the money on a good one.

If only there was a bivi thread....

The OP asked for kit being used, here's my core list.

ME Dewline sleeping bag, not available anymore but was £125 20 years ago and weighs 700gms. Was the must have alpine bivi sleeping bag in it's day

ME Dewline duvet jacket was £100 20 years ago weighs 400 gms. I'd maybe consider buying a lighter vest/gilet duvet jacket now.

Bivi bag is Rab something or other, similar to the Alpkit Hunka, was £55. fairly simple drawcord closure to the more expensive designed versions.

Mat 3/4 length Thermarest light , there's better lighter things now (used super light winter closed cell foam mat for mountaineering, but not really suitable for biking as they're bulky, they're also not that comfortable).

Don't know if anyone has said this yet, but it's important to get the right mat as you lose a lot of heat to/from the ground, it can make a big difference overall.

cannot have to many bivi threads 🙂

Sleeping bag - dragon brand, down, think my parents took it on their motorbiking honeymoon, ewwwwwww

Bivi bag - army surplus, woken up in a puddle on the outside but bone dry inside.

Tarp - decathlon, its a bit of waterproof sheet, how much do you need to pay? Cut it down to the required size to save weight/bulk. Mines in half which is big enough to cook under still, but half again would still be fine for keeping your head dry whilst in a bag.

Stove and cookind - bear bones + my ti mug + spork + flint + 75ml travel shampoo bottle of meths.

Sleeping mat - vango self inflating, a thermarest might be a little warmer but a bit of foil backed bubblewrap makes a big difference if its ever cold enough to need more, and just wraps arround your dry bag on the bars.

Spare baselayers! No one wants to sleep in their stale chamois and jersey.

Some cracking ideas, thanks people.

I hadn't really thought about the importance of a good sleeping mat to be honest. That Exped Synmat Winterlite recommended by whitestone looks amazing, especially with the built-in inflation bag.

The Winterlite doesn't have the built-in inflation bag/pump. Mats? Definitely worth getting a good one, thermal equilibrium means that you don't have much chance against several trillion tonnes of cold earth.

It's best to think of things as a "system" rather than a bunch of items. Don't get fixated on the gear though, better to get out and have fun and figure out what works and what doesn't. Some of my gear is high quality, high price but other stuff is cheap, recycled stuff even kit I've made myself, quite a bit is reused from when I did a lot of climbing.

looks on with interest

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/sick-as-a-dog-so-show-me-you-bivi-bikepacking-adventure-racing-gear ]Here's the big thread[/url]. For when you have a spare few hours 🙂

Properly test your mat before you leave. One I had was faulty at the valve, and would be flat after about 90mins. That was a bloody cold night, saved by whisky and an OS map 😉

Do bikepackers never use a really small tent instead of all this bivvy/shelter malarkey?

Never tried bikepacking but thinking I may do this year.
I already own a tiny 1 man Vango tent that I reckon would fit quite nicely on the handle bars somehow.

Is this not preferable to sleeping outside with the bugs and slugs?

@ndthornton

Tends to be a mixture, some only use a tent, some only a tarp, some use both. There's pluses and minuses to both tarp and tent and these vary throughout the year and by location so it's not a straightforward choice.

Obviously you know or are aware of the pluses for a tent. For me, the main thing is the lack of bulk when carrying a tarp, I've a mountain marathon style tent (think 1.5 persons) and it's huge when packed compared to the tarp, it's also twice the weight. A tarp is much more flexible in where you can set it up and align it for the prevailing weather, you don't even need poles though they do add flexibility and extra options. A good choice of site especially in the summer can keep bugs (well midges) away.

Until last year I hadn't tried a tarp but had a go and learnt along the way: pitching to provide more room; to provide more shelter at one end/side and so on.

Not for everyone and there's no hard and fast rules. On last year's HT550 there were a few with tents as it was a mixed forecast and to keep the winged death at bay.

Yes, lots use a small tent

Bugs and slugs are part of the experience

Tent for me in Highlands - though there were no midges..... The tent is similar weight and bulk to tarp and bivi bag.

Tarp - decathlon, its a bit of waterproof sheet, how much do you need to pay?

Exactly. I use a piece of an old tent flysheet. I got it out of a bin at the end of a festival. Carefully cut out a couple of panels to give me the right shape with "hemmed" edges and plenty of attachment points. Gave it a wash and a reproof. Can't believe the prices people pay for a rectangle of proofed nylon with a couple of eyelets.

Don't skimp on your mat. I've got a 1.5" Mountain Equipment one - Cotswolds seem to have them permanently on "offer" for about £40. I'm very pleased with it, though it might not be quite enough for winter on its own.

Oh, and if you can afford the extra weight, I find a small tarp (actual tarp, not sil-nylon, etc.) is a nice luxury as a groundsheet (make sure it doesn't stick out from under your cover "tarp" and to avoid collecting water) to make preparing food easier and keep stuff a bit cleaner - though this is mainly because my girlfriend appreciates it and that in turn makes my life better. I made a small one to fit my cover tarp from a gazebo of my mate's that was destroyed by the wind on a camping trip (can you sense a pattern developing here?).

Tents and tarps both have their place.

In shit weather a tent can be a proper cosy haven. A bivvy/tarp does let you see more of what's going on around you though, even if it's just those times you wake up in the middle of the night and look at the stars whereas in a tent you'd roll over and go back to sleep.

Bivvy bags also give you the option of sleeping in more unconventional places.

Small tent in weather like this
[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1546/23816810653_e7c1a18036_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1546/23816810653_e7c1a18036_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ChBo3r ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr
Tarp for the warmer nights!
[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5800/21390075980_9aa15ed7f3_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5800/21390075980_9aa15ed7f3_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/yAaJns ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr

If you are going for the Thermarest rather than the big thick air mats, I use a 3/4 mat with a section of old closed cell foam mat to go under your lower legs when sleeping. Then you also have a sit mat and you can use it as a packing aid for the barbag too.

Here's a short intro to sleeping mats http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/blog/quilts-105-sleeping-pads/ , some reviews (not all available here in the UK) http://www.bikepacking.com/gear/sleeping-pads-for-bikepacking/

If your on Bookface checkout the "Bike & Bivi" page.

Alpkit Hunka isn't waterproof and it really a sleeping bag cover. Not a problem but its not really a bivi bag. Old ex army Gortex ones tend to be a bit heavier but you can zip your self inside and sleep out in the rain. My Snowdon Mouldings Goretex one from 1984 has done that for me more than once. Bit bulky, almost exactly the size of a proper pint glass (with a handle)
Goretex tops with something less clever on the base work well if you stay still. I don't

There are better bivy bags for sure, but hunka is waterproof (from my experience and on the web page HH 10,000 mm)

If you found wetness in the Hunka could it be condensation? I'm always assumed it wouldn't be as breathable as more expensive bags.

Jesus 😯 factor in the OTT prices of bikepacking specific luggage and it looks like i can have two weeks all inclusive for just the price of the kit,and change.

🙂
Some of us do it on the cheap!
I just slung a dry bag on my bars with a couple of straps and another under the saddle the first few times out!

And here's my stove (price of 3 value tins of veg):
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7216/7286517890_4389561c6c_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7216/7286517890_4389561c6c_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/c6TiUN ]Homemade woodgas stove[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/thingswelike/ ]Alex Simon[/url], on Flickr

(with ti mug natch)

Most things have been covered already, I am a fan of a lighter sleeping bag and then bringing extra insulation if is going to be colder, I don't think there is any need to go out and spend £150 on a sleeping bag to start with unless you really want to.

I have an ex-army bivvy bag which is considerably bulkier than my friends hunka, and I have still woken up to the bottom of my sleeping bag damp after a soggy night so personally I think there is a long more to staying dry than emphatically stating one bag is more waterproof and another is not.

I also do not see the need to go and spend £40 on a tarp straight away. I use a camo tarp got from ebay for a couple of pounds and it does the job. By all means a proper tarp will be nicer but if you are just getting started you need to see what works for you and the geography of where you will be staying.

The tarp I use is something like this:

[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-Tarpaulin-Ground-Sheet-Lightweight-Camping-Cover-Extra-Value-Tarp-/231018276944?var=&hash=item35c9c32850:m:mHGbE5hlt_rnw3mOJ6dH-Dg ]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-Tarpaulin-Ground-Sheet-Lightweight-Camping-Cover-Extra-Value-Tarp-/231018276944?var=&hash=item35c9c32850:m:mHGbE5hlt_rnw3mOJ6dH-Dg[/url]

Here is the wee one I take if I'm going alone:

[img] [/img]

I also have a bigger one if I have company:

[img] [/img]

Last thing I'll say, hands down the best bikepacking item I have bought is an Alpkit Numo, not only is it a very comfortable airbed when inflated but it is absolutely tiny when deflated and rolled up. It is the smallest, lightest and most comfortable sleeping mat I have used and compared to a thermarest it is cheap too.

Any links to instructions on how to make that stove AlexSimon?

Anyone used or have any experience of a lamzac?

https://www.eta.co.uk/2016/01/15/lamzac-pop-up-sofa-glamping-must-have-accessory-for-2016/

Now that looks comfy.

@wicki

As others have said, you can just strap dry bags to your bike and that's certainly good enough for the first few trips to see if you get along with it.

The commercial harnesses just make things easier in that they separate the jobs of keeping your kit dry and mounting it on the bike. With the best will in the world you'll get some rubbing between frame and dry bag when simply strapping it down so the harness acts as a protector. You can also make your own if you are handy with a sewing machine.

@momo - there's some instructions for that stove on the Bearbones blog.

momo - try this also

http://www.instructables.com/id/Woodgas-Can-Stove/

I made a basic single-can cooker from a can of beans with a SAK one evening camping out, ie with a lighter and a SAK you can get all survivalist (assuming you have a can of food). A bit sooty but all ok.

http://www.thesodacanstove.com/alcohol-stove/how-to-build.html - these work well and are light, compact and cheap. Bearbones sell a more efficient and durable version for not much money.

If you are going for the Thermarest rather than the big thick air mats, I use a 3/4 mat with a section of old closed cell foam mat to go under your lower legs when sleeping. Then you also have a sit mat and you can use it as a packing aid for the barbag too.

And befoe I got distracted by fire I was going to say that this ^ is sound stuff. I've done overnighters with a roll of foam mat, packed by wrapping around the sleeping bag then using ferns etc to pad out the ground. Warm and comfy and half the fun of all this is doing it on the cheap.

For a bar roll, a bit of foam and some 1" webbing strap and buckles works well enough.

I have full panniers and racks from road touring along with tent 2 man about 2.3 k vango airmat 900gm and a half descent sleeping bag so i think ill mix and match for a while using maybe the 2 front panniers on the rack with a bar roll

that should give me a starting setup without spending a fortune the ortliebs work well on the road and the weight is kept low on the bike.

momo - Member

Any links to instructions on how to make that stove AlexSimon?