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Interested in different approaches.....
Looking ahead to some bikepacking fun this summer I'm looking to rejig my setup(s). I'm not a complete idiot with a sewing machine and fancy the challenge of making my own kit in addition to the alpkit stuff I already have. In particular a slightly different shape handlebar bag and a frame bag for the fat bike. One of my 'gripes' with the bikepacking concept in Scotland is the cooler temperatures and the 'tiny' possibility it might rain so the kit you want to carry comes up hard against the capacity of your average bikepacking setup. I've actually used panniers off road in the past with some success but I want to build a half way house of more capacity but faster/lighter that my current bikepacking bags but more rough singletrack friendly than panniers whilst not freezing my knackers off overnight in anything but nice weather.
Question re full frame bags and carrying water......The fat bike isn't really that bikepackpacking friendly - the front triangle is relatively small for a big bike and it only had one set of bottle bosses anyway. So I'm going to make a full frame bag for it. Being a fat bike with a big Q factor the bag can be pretty wide I think. But what to do about water? Looks like there are two approaches - use the bottom half of the frame bag for a bladder or just use a camelbak or similar like most of us did most of the time off road. I've seen some odd bottle placements on forks or seatstays or even on top tubes in fabric pouches but I'm not convinced. Maybe I'm wrong.
How do you do it?
Because of the Q factor on my fatbike, I've been able to use a cheapo adapter that sits 2 bottle cages at angles using the frames bottle cage mounts. This allows my Lomu frame bag to squish down inbetween the two. Its not perfect but its definitely good enough.
And if you were to make your own frame bag, you could make it bang on.
Thats on a medium Dude.
I was toying with the idea of selling the Dude and just using my Crush, if so those Tailfin fork mounts look expensive but good.
Rear rack water carrier?
Mostly, I don't use a frame bag, but...
I've a partial frame bag on the Amazon (tourer) that still allows two 750ml bottles.
If I'm using the fatbike then that'll normally be "winter" (hence needing more stuff), so I do have a Lomo framebag for that and I'll carry some water in a small backpack.
If I'm using my Pact hardtail then I don't have any sort of framebag. I'll carry two 750ml water bottles, one of which is a Water-to-go with a built-in filter.
I'm in the midst of trying to sort out my Topstone for bikepacking. Typically, I'd like to carry less on the bars and seatpost so a partial framebag might do me, but then I'll be restricted to one 950ml bottle in the frame space. I might then go for the fork-mounted cages or a feedbag with the Water-to-go in it but if I'm in Scotland then (other than my overnight stop) one bottle is likely sufficient as long as I top it up.
I'm not sure I trust a water bladder in a frame bag with kit I want to keep dry 🙂
A waist-pack also works if you get a good one. I occasionally use an Ortlieb which is comfy and stable with a bottle in it.
Band on bottle cage mounts under the down tube would be an option.
Good stuff so far - thanks.
@mugboo - snap, mine is a Dude too (large). What's this cheapo adapter you speak of? The bottle bosses on the dude are higher than they need to be so I had thought of using a spacesaver thingy to lower them. Or invoking all the toys and machining/3D printing/laying up some carbon to do something clever with the bottle bosses.
On the gravel bike I've got a pair of fork mounted carriers and bags. tbh, I think there is a maximum weight you'd want on your forks off road if you want to remain vaguely nimble.
Can I jump on this thread and ask what frame bags are good for when bikepacking/off road touring?
I've got an Aero spider and handlebar harness, and am wondering about a framebag as well.
Through lack of fittings on other bikes (and wanting to avoid a lash-up) I've so far avoided fork-mounted bags and bottles, but they're on the Topstone forks so I'm a bit more likely to try. As you say, I worry about changing the feel of the bike too much, though I guess it's less of a concern on a fatbike than on a gravel bike.
Oh - I bought an Aeroe rack for the fatbike last year. (It's only had one outing so far). That does open up other mounting solutions, either for luggage (so freeing up the frame space) or for bottles I guess.
@Kramer. I like my Lomo bag. It basically lives on my fatbike full-time and has survived 4-5 winters. It fits well in the (medium) Cube I have but might not be best for anything larger.
The chalk bag / stem bag arrangement works quite well. If you have fork mounts it's probably easier to use those as I prefer to use the stem bags like roadies jersey pockets for snacks, sunglasses, etc.
Backpacks are an option, and TBH when you see how much some people load their bikes down with, a 25l backpack starts to look like a far better option.
Like most things bikepacking, it's an exercise in compromises and minimizing weight. Take 1x 900ml bottle and refill it often, it's the UK, you're never more than an hour from fresh-ish water! 2l Camelbacks are great when it's 40C on a 4h trail center ride. But bikepacking you're either touring between villages where you can get fresh water or the streams will be clean enough. Don't try and carry several kilos of unnecessary weight just to be self sufficient between campsites. People will spend hours deliberating over choosing a 50g lighter sleeping mat, then take 3x water bottles that weigh almost 3kg between them when full!
Don’t try and carry several kilos of unnecessary weight just to be self sufficient between campsites.
This. Take an empty, roll-up, bladder for overnight water if you're not camped near a river.
TBH the only time I've come close to running out of water in Scotland was an overnight stop near Loch Etive when it was so cold that all running water had frozen 🙂
A pannier alternative I might be using on a trip starting next week. The fork cages/bags are ones I use on the MTB (with fork mounts) and find I don't notice them at all. I'd use them as intended on the monstercross but the fork doesn't have the mounts for them.
Yes I've got a couple of roll up water bags - very handy for those camp spots where you are not directly near a water supply. Also discovered a light musette style bag stuffed into a corner that you can get out if you've got extra to carry a short distance to camp (like water.........or fish and chips!)
Oh, and I took a tig welder to an alpkit exo-rail thingy that stabilizes their seatpacks. By adding an extra thin bar welded to the exo rail that parallels the seatpost you can use a dropper post without strapping to the dropper.
I've got an Alpkit bag that I specced with a vertical divider and hanging loop for a camelback bladder. It's ok and was possible as the frame triangle is quite roomy, however to improve it the velcro divider needs stitching in, definitely at the bottom and ideally part way up to stop stuff damaging the bladder. I ended up just packing soft stuff such as tarps in the other half.
Also it's a bit of a pain to refill, when you remove the bladder everything else wants to fall into it's space!
I've just ordered an Apidura frame bladder for a much older Alpkit Stingray, hoping that will work well as it will take up most of the bag and the top unrolls to make it easier to fill in situ.
I have tried a few options all OK IMO. I am just about to try option N which will be bottles inside the triangle (like normal) and an aeroe rear spider rack, just ordered today, along with a bar bag.
Here are a couple of photos. If your forks have cage mounts use them but I have also used px style cable tied fork mounts using inner tube for protection.
Scotland last year on the solarismax I had one bottle under the down tube with a mud cover over the nozzle. One bottle on top of the top tube.
As scotroutes says a collapsible bag for water at the bothy is great. My sawyer fits it so I pop to the stream fill both bottles and then fill the bag. This https://ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/vecto-2l-water-container---28mm/
3x band on mounts under the downtube. Then I've got a gorilla cage to go on that and a 1.5l nalgene bottle strapped into that.
Doesn't budge, but I fill it up as late as possible before camp using a water filter.
I use that setup along with 2x750ml bottles and a triangle frame bag on my cotic solarismax.
Tried full frame bags, but don't really get on with them. All I find it does, is reduce space for water, so you have to put the water somewhere else less convenient and more uncomfortable.
Almost always a bladder in a frame bag here, whether rigid bike or full sus. Bladder weighs about the same as a bottle but can take up to 1.5/2l (mine) or more (you don't have to fill it!). Doesn't get covered in crap (ok, the hose has to go somewhere, but attached to the bars, or, my latest innovation, attached to the top tube via a retractable ski lift pad holder, it stays pretty clean). Weight exactly where it should be, low and central. Easy to drink from.
Can I jump on this thread and ask what frame bags are good for when bikepacking/off road touring?
Apart from water, they're easily accessible while riding, so snacks, extra later, spare gloves, etc.
Oh, and I took a tig welder to an alpkit exo-rail thingy that stabilizes their seatpacks. By adding an extra thin bar welded to the exo rail that parallels the seatpost you can use a dropper post without strapping to the dropper.
Interesting... Got any pics please? My approach is just a standard seatpack (Blackburn) with a bit of pipe insulation round the dropper, but could probably be improved.
Spooky, I've the Apidura frame bag internal bladder from Apidura. It's fine, works well in a large frame bag and avoids muck issues on sub-optimally positioned bottles. You do have to be careful about making sure it's properly closed up though but with the hose routed out and up to the side of a stem bag, it is very convenient and keeps the weight of water very low down. Downsides? You can't see how much is left but if you're wise to your water needs and consumption rate, that's no hardship.
One bike has seat stay bottle cages on both sides and that's a decent and modestly priced option, if you can arrange secure mounting.
I'm happy using a backpack. Deeply unpopular solution I acknowledge, however when you go ultralight then it works well IMO.
I've a full frame bag but carry water in my hip pack bladder and I've got a larger bottle that sits under the downtube to fill up using my water filter when I'm getting close to camp.
I'm yet to do anything too remote or multi day but this works for me.
I used an alp kit frame bag with a 2L bladder.
I've only likely to bike pack in the UK for a weekend so 3L is overkill for me.
If it's winter I'll have a backpack on that will be 100% full of a massive sleeping bag. In summer I have managed not to have anything on my back.
This works for me
I always carry a filter straw with me, because i usually drink a fair bit and once ran out of water on the Cuillins in the height of summer. Thought i was going to perish from heat exhaustion, and ended up with a hell of a headache for the remainder of the day. So after that decided to always carry something that allowed me to safely drink from a river
Takes up no room and in an emergency you can drink from just about any source- although these days im not sure how uncontaminated the rivers are. We/I usually go north of Scotland and the water is far less polluted there, but best be safe.
Lifestraw is my choice. they're about 30 quid.
There you go Convert, from memory I had to add a couple of small washers to space it slightly away from the frame but my feet never hit it due to the Q factor.
Double post due to that bad gateway thing...
Good thinking @dyna-ti as among other problems in water there's now been a few cases of reported Giardia from folk who are certain they picked it up in the wilds of the Highlands. There's a debate over how the bug may have got out there - carried there by infected, imported dogs from eastern Europe, or by people from N America camping near water courses and not being careful about their camp hygiene. Either way, it's there; a small risk but real.
That of course is over and above all the conventional risks of people & livestock, upstream from your chosen water source. If neither of those are possible, water should be safe. 'Do you feel lucky, punk..?'
I use a king cage top cap mount. It's a bottle cage mount that replaced your stem top cap.
It looks/feels strange having a water bottle up front, but it works well and haven't lost a bottle from it . (I only use it for bike packing and remove it from the bike for 'normal' riding)
@highlandman - having seen the test results by Dundee uni from water courses high up around Loch Tay, I've moved to tap water or filtered only. I won't drink from streams any more.
There you go Convert, from memory I had to add a couple of small washers to space it slightly away from the frame but my feet never hit it due to the Q factor.
Thanks. Ordered alongside a bottle shifter thingy to move it down a bit which will probably take the place of the washers.
I'll see how that looks before getting the sewing machine out and designing and making the bag!
Re water quality - concerning. I've got a filter but got to confess I don't use it much. A water to go bottle (with the £10 off currently) might be the solution. But I'm currently looking at our kitchen tap, that currently comes directly untreated from a burn close to the spring source. We don't drink from it anymore (after some funky moments) but I might have more fish to fry than a few dozen bottles of stream water a year when I'm out overnight.
@convert I thought I was OK on the sewing machine too so I made a half frame bag and thought you might be able to benefit from my experience (mistakes):
- The two sides need to match exactly. It sounds obvious but I found it tricky to achieve especially when sewing the strip that divides the two sides and going around the corners. I ended up with a twist in the bag which didn't really work and I had to unpick one seam and re-sew it, hampered by the fact I hadn't left much seam allowance. It is why the zip doesn't run parallel to the top tube as was intended.
- I didn't use any stiffening on the side panels so I had to add some internal fabric strips, sewn to each side of the bag to stop it bulging and rubbing my thighs. This has created three compartments in the inside that I hadn't envisaged. It would have been much easier if I had planned this and sewn them in where I wanted them instead of where I could access the bag's internals with the sewing machine.
- I used camouflage material as I thought it might hide my mistakes better than a plain colour.
Convert, I recently bought one of those for the wifes small Bird Aether but got away with the little wedge and a small Fidlock bottle. I'm going to move the bottle mount downwards too. I bought the strap attachment that will also allow me to mount something below the downtube.
@matt_outandabout could you please point me towards that paper? I've had a quick look and cannot find it so far.
As an event safety officer in remote events in the Highlands I'm often asked about the quality of our flowing water, both by locals and overseas participants, who often have very different experiences and expectations of hill water. If there's some sensible work on this, I ought to pursue it.
I'd be interested, too, having had giardia myself in the past. I treat stream water in the UK with oasis tabs these days which seems to work.
Good stuff Angus. Looks like you did a good job. I'm quite looking forward to it. I've been taking a good luck at an alpkit one for inspiration.
(Tick)
I had a great deal of trouble finding a suitable XL sized hardtail frame for myself, and ended up with a bike with only a single set of bottle bosses (on the downtube), so interested in possible solutions for when I get me arse in gear...