[Closed] Bikefest overtaking

Was it molgrips?

Most of the Ashton Court stuff doesn't allow for safe overtaking: it's too narrow. Back in the muddy years, before the trail redevelopments, there was more room. I'm surprised people still race on it, to be honest. Think I'll stick to Leigh Woods and 50-Acre today. Hope you heal soon, OP.

Something I spotted yesterday was bad pre overtake calling. Shouting "rider" is utterly useless and possibly counterproductive, I can't see the reason not to shout left or right as always used to happen.......

Hope you get better soon!

Agreed Andy, it's really not that hard a clear LEFT or RIGHT when there's a place to pass. A reckless overtake can wreck someone's season. I need a new helmet , kit is wrecked and I dread to think when I'll be back on the bike. Not impressed at all.

I too am in bri a+e having stacked - I'm not sure if this is me having a touch of amnesia- was it a Vegas rider?

I think Ashton Court must bring it out in some people. I raced there years back, and had somebody yelling quite aggressively for me to move over and let him pass-we were riding through an open field at the time. The energy he used shouting probably outweighed that required to go around me (and nearly take my front wheel out, just to prove his point).
On a pedantic note, shouting "left" or "right" ,how is the rider going to know if you want to overtake on that side, or you want him to move to that side? This sort of thing needs to be made clear at the rider briefing if we're going to avoid problems.

Yeah, It was mostly people shouting which way they wanted to go without any thought as to whether you could actually pass. I told quite a few people they would have to wait until I was ready to let em go.
There were a few sensible (and polite) ones but they were outnumbered by the nobs.

I am not doing it this year but had some close calls last year. One in particular got a good dose of verbal from me and another wiped himself out which was amusing!

Agree with alll above, a quick shout of on the left-right is all it takes and perhaps not trying to force someone off on a narrow section.

Hope you recover quickly. Did they stop?

Growing problem at all events now I find.
Common courtesy gets left at home 🙁

It did seem like team jersey wearing turned some people into angry thoughtless nobs. it wont stop me doing it (and Oktoberfest) though. I'm gonna get jersey's made with instructions on passing politely on the back

Growing problem at all events now I find.
Common courtesy gets left at home

I might just be lucky but I've never had a problem at any of the events I've raced at.
At the Wasing 12h and Torq 12:12 last year, I was amazed at how polite riders were, not just yelling left or right as they passed but actually asking if they could get past and on which side, in some cases they'd even let you know if there was more than one of them. Each and every time, the riders would also thank me as they went past and more often than not give some words of encouragement.
I must've been lucky as I often hear people complaining about bad overtaking at races but I've only ever experienced it once.

Bike fest is the least friendly event I've done ,
Not had anyone knock me off but just did not seem as relaxed as the bonty 24-12
Or eaelstoke 12

I found everyone really polite when passing as I was when I overtook anyone.The ambulance was busy yesterday I saw the injured Vegas rider .I saw an injured girl waiting for the ambulance by the quarry .Does anyone know if she is ok ?

It tends to be the wannabe fast guys that do this. The real quick guys (Nick Craig springs to mind) in my experience are always polite, offer encouragement and when they do pass they are so quick they don’t hold you up and they disappear into the distance. If you are a recognised Pro you don’t want to be upsetting people and putting you sponsors in a bad light..
What cracks me up are the wannabes that bully past and then hold you up in the next technical section. At that point I take great pleasure at buzzing their back wheel and pointing out their not exactly Steve Peat!

op -that really sucks hope all get well soon, I may have passed your ambulance on my way up to watch did u get taken out of quarry gates?

bikefest has always had an issue with rudness and general discard for safety I think this should be made a mentioned point at the start briefing
iv had my good and bads if I get a lairy one il just slow down and weave a little but usualy u can here if someones riding your wheel pre letting them no when to go is a good helper for a smooth overtake it shows good sportsmanship

also caught a few teams trading bands before the transfer band before the transfer area....made it a point to say naughty then he fell over the tape on exit dident save any time atall 😆

Oh yeah and OP - Healing vibes

On a pedantic note, shouting "left" or "right" ,how is the rider going to know if you want to overtake on that side, or you want him to move to that side?

i have always been of the view that "left" is "on your left", i.e. please move to your right and i will pass you on the left.

have always been of the view that "left" is "on your left", i.e. please move to your right and i will pass you on the left

Calling rider behind a slower one gives them the opportunity to choose which side to move to as a lot of the single track is tight and they have a better view being in front....also calling on your left or right will often lead to the rider in front moving left if you call on your left or right when you call on your right.

Ashton will always have overtaking issues unfortunately, considering the amount of traffic and single track out there it seems like there are less incidents than could be. Most people do take care and respect other riders, its just the odd nobber who thinks they are quick that seem to cause incident's!?

All the best jonny360 I did see you in the main tent and you looked pretty bashed up.....hope you get back out on your bike soon.
Take care out there everyone

Shouting "RIDER" is just not good enough and will usually initiate a retort of "join the club" or "me too" from me.
I am not a quick rider these days but when I do pass slower riders I would never dream of attempting to pass unless there was suitable room and that I have given clear intructions to the rider in front of my intentions and recieved acknowledgement from them.
Simple courtesy and remembering a little etiquette seems to have gone by the wayside over recent years.
Whats worse is this inconsiderate behaviour can ruin someones race OR season.
I can only hope this behaviour can be stamped out from a sport I love and that I have been taking part in for over 25 years.
Hope you heal up quickly jonny360

Just shows the overraking rider lacks skill and experience (amongst many other things) it is not for the rider in front to move, but for the overtaking rider to do, with a clear call and they accept responsibility for both riders safety.

Which is okay if you do not have a large drop on your right like someone tried with me at 10 UTB a couple of years ago

Which is where the "please" comes in, the overtaker should not expect the slower rider to do something stupid and dangerous. If i ask left, all i mean is when it is safe can you move over, i don't expect anyone to jump off the trail at that moment in time. Yes i know their are prats who race bikes, and it tends to be the wanna-bes not the pros. I have seen questionable moves, luckily no one got injured as a result.

What annoyed me about that is 10 UTB is supposed to be a weekend fun thing do the winners really get their jollies from beating guys like me

Its a race, first one across the line wins? So what is your point, if you are slower and your in the way they need to get past you as quickly as possible.

Jonny, I guess that was you there while I was sat with godihatehills who'd done his chin and head in. looked like you were in a lot of pain so I hope you're recovering.

I found overtaking fine this year as usual but there will always be a few people who spoil things. ime the bike fest much better for that than other races though possibly the new singletrack making overtaking harder.

This is why all bicycles should be fitted with bells.
Just a nice tinkle on the compulsory bell to let the rider in front know you are there, and all the shouty aggression and confusion on does that mean I move to the right or they are overtaking on the right is gone.

I always use " Can I pass when its safe ? "

Everyone is racing and its always better to let the person you are trying to pass dictate where and when is appropriate.

Calling rider has the same function as using a bell - it is done to alert the person in front that someone quicker than them is coming up and will want to pass. 'Left' and 'right' only works half the time, you'd be amazed at how many people veer left when you shout 'On your left'. There isn't an ideal solution, and as evidenced by one of the comments above, it is sometimes the people overtaking that come off worse...I broke my collarbone on that course a couple of years doing what should have been a safe overtake because someone belligerently took up as much of the trail as possible because they didn't want me to pass. You've got a massive field of riders, some of whom are racing hard, so people are going to crash.

Most people I went past were great and urged me on - hopefully responding to the courtesy of "let me know when I can pass mate" after calling 'rider' from 5 metres back as an alert. People respond to 'cheers mate, appreciate that' too. But there were a couple of nobs who gave me backchat despite me being polite. Maybe they were smarting because a previous rider had been rude or overly aggressive when overtaking (not my problem, so don't give me grief), or maybe they were smarting because they reckoned they are superspeedy and don't like their ego being bruised (again, not my problem so don't give me grief).

The experienced riders should all be overtaking safely and courteously. It is often the mid-pack heros who are unsafe. Overtaking and being overtaken - it is a two way thing.

I'm sorry to hear about the OP's injury and best of luck for a swift recovery .

Similar story to that of gus - racing Bikefest a few years back, rider behind screaming "pro" coming through, so make way just before the quarry section (before they re-built it with new lines & smooth surface). As soon as we hit the descent I caught up to him, made my own call to be through, at which point he moved to block, did the same again at next request. Spent the rest of the descent ripping pi$$ out of his "pro" riding & took the jump line at bottom & carved across where his chicken run line would come out. Made just enough gap to hold him off on the loose climb & he was on my wheel as we entered the next singletrack descent, he shouted to be through & I ignored & charged down the descent. Made enough time that I had crossed the start/finish line before he could catch up. I always raced for fun & despise the wannabies who think they're pro's, but really don't have the skills to match.
Hoping the OP makes a fast recovery.

Anyone who shouts 'pro' is a moron, end of.

Anyone who shouts 'pro' is a moron, end of.

Yes. 🙄

To be fair there were quite a few riders asking politely to be let past when safe and I did so, they always said thank you. The ones who barged and wanted to pass in entirely unsafe places are the ones who spoil it for everyone.
It was still great though and a shame for those whose day (and maybe season) was spoilt by unsporting behaviour (and don't get me started on the change over area madness)

Ha Ha! Who on earth went around shouting 'pro'?! Njee20 has summed that up but moron doesn't quite do it justice. Who was it?! Jersey?

Matt

The change over area was certainly chaos for the first 2 laps .There was not a lot of room was there?

Not a lot of room and nobbers swapping bands at one end and running to the other to grab their bike at speed, then slowly riding off, wish i'd filmed a few now

The chap stopped initially but I was furious with him and let him know that. He left soon after saying I moved across the front of him!! To be fair he came up to me in the tent later when I was with the paramedic and apologised again which took balls. I don't think he realised how bad I was. I managed to finish the lap with my shoulder popped out...adrenaline I suppose. Too scared to check my sworks...already need a new helmet.

Don't think ill ever race there again. Shame really as I've always enjoyed it.

Can you get those things they had on the chariots in Ben Hur for MTBs?? Might help...

Thanks for the support guys. The rest of the team did really well. A 2nd and 6th in Old gits solo and my best mate was 2nd in SS cat when he pulled out to take me home.

I was with the chap who split his chin in the ambulance, he's doing ok too. Bit of a headache though I think.

Clubber , yes that was me. He must have asked me 50 times how his bike was...poor chap. I'm just going to check mine.

So, have I got this right - some people expect slower people in front of them to actually move out of their way to let them through? Really?

So, have I got this right - some people expect slower people in front of them to actually move out of their way to let them through? Really?

to a point yes, if you are slow and a faster rider from a different category comes up behind you courtesy is not to block, but it is also for the faster rider to get past safely!!!!!

Mrmo....Seriously!!!??!?? If there's no room WAIT!!!! If there's room then overtake. Riding solo is hard enough but do you expect us to ride off line all the time to let quicker riders through? With the amount of traffic at Bikefest then the solo riders or 'slow riders' as you call them would never ride on the race line. Not good sportsmanship at all...

Quite. Are slower riders expected to keep looking behind them to see if the rider approaching them is in a different category!?

On a related note - I was out walking in the Pentlands with my eldest son today. This big fat chubber on a pretty bling bike shouted "move to the right - now" at us followed by "theres another just behind" - that's not a good way to encourage good relations with other users of the trails. Tosser.

this is the reason I don't do Bikefest anymore,

2 years ago, leading solo 12hr males, got overtaken as I was was overtaking someone I had agreement to pass, ended up with damaged ligaments on shoulder, cracked rib, £100s damage to kit,

last year I quit after 5 hours, mostly cos now it is like a bmx track with no alternative lines for the racers, but also cos a team rider accused me of holding people up,

great atmosphere on the surface around the start/finish and campsite, get on the course and it's another animal,

never had a problem with overtaking at bikefest. Agree there is less opportunity to pass on the new trails. Did spot one joker on a cross bike which would've been easy to overtake given his narrow bars 😉

Why was he a joker on his crossbike ?

we're mates and I did a couple of laps on my cross bike. 😉

I nearly took mine along as backup. I did spot you out there on it.

Sympathies with the OP but let's get this in perspective. There were some 600 odd people racing on the Saturday (not all at once as the bulk are in teams of four) and it may well be that a few of them do not understand some of the conventions of overtaking, but I for one thought that the behaviour was very reasonable & better than in previous years. Of course there will always be the odd idiot, and in the early stages of the event I'm sure some racers are a bit hot headed and the field has not yet spread out.

Obviously incidents such as the OP's are really unfortunate but the course is quite technical in places and I can well imagine a few accidents will occur. One of the more serious happened off the jump next the the start/finish line which was quickly removed straight afterwards!

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/29er-bar-width-for-xc-racing?replies=17#post-5053703

See this post. Some absolute tool knocked me off at 20mph on the really wide straight section after the fastest straight to switchback fireroadish decent. Few hours in to a solo 12 and was 2nd in open at the time (finished 3rd so happy enough)

I was solo but still overtaking/being overtaken quite a lot during the day. Apart from this incident everyone was very polite, good banter all round. I'm afraid its the few that spoil it for the many.

My 2p on overtaking is to shout rider as you are approaching (but not directly behind) the person you want to pass to give them warning that someone is there (as they dont always notice you) then if a direct opportunity to pass presents itself I would say passing on your left/right (how much longer does it take to add the passing on your left bit for absolute clarity rather than just left right). If there isn't a direct opportunity to pass I would say any chance I can get past when you get a chance, then sit there patiently until they say pass on right/left now. Then when past, 'thanks very much mate, nice one, appreciated'. This approach has had a 100% smile and thanks pass rate for me over the years. Some dude even said to me 'good riding dude' at the bikefest so customer feedback is also good 🙂

Wow, we came away from the event and our reaction was how friendly everyone had been!

Our overtaking experience was much better than we'd experienced at Mayhem or SITS for instance. It should be noted that as we were riding rigid single speeds our experience of being overtook was considerable ;o)

Takes two to tango when overtaking ime and as there are a few agendas out on the track sometimes it doesn't work out. Just a 'can I pass when you're ready?' has always worked for me.

Thought it was a great event as a first timer and we'll probably go again.

Healing vibes to the OP.

On your left/right is a very psychologically confusing thing to shout...it's like saying 'don't think of a pink hippopotamus'.

On the track when your lapping someone you shout 'stay down'. If you shouted coming past above...they'd inevitably move up and wipe you out.

It's strange people's opinions this is the 4th year I've done it and found this year the most polite for over taking! I did have one tool try to over take me blind, he got baulked and abused I put my foot down and didn't see him again!

At the same time whenever I heard a rider behind I would shout "Take my left" and i'd move to the right, I got a polite "Thank you" every time ..well except one..the bloke replied "who's left, yours or mine?" ...mmme he wasn't being funny either did make me chuckle!!!

I had a brilliant weekend, loved every minute of it again as always.

Ashton Court attracts the 'racers' year round now. I stopped riding there (other than mid-week when quiet) because of the head-down, aerse-up numpties wanting me to pull over where I couldn't so they could Strava themselves round.

Just back home now - had someone come up to me on our stand post race this afternoon to say thanks for a polite overtaking move! Well chuffed with that. It's not hard to be sympathetic to the needs of other riders and represent your team well....... Something that many could learn to do. Race results are a tiny part of being a team rider - it's how you represent yourself and the brand that sticks in people's minds.....

Have to say for a first race and doing it singlespeed I was amazed how polite and friendly everyone was. Yep, had lots of people pass me- but never felt intimidated or that it was too close. If I heard them coming I told them when to pass- if not people asked me to let them know when it was good to go. Even had some of the very fast people have a quick chat before disappearing off. I've had worse experiences doing a practice lap at Mayhem or SITS with people crashing into me. Loved the event and would certainly do it again.

As someone who is overtaken more than I overtake, I've never had any problem whatsoever understanding what 'on your left/right' means, but 'rider' puts me in a confusion as to where I should go, especially if I'm going as hard as I can too!

Sympathies with the OP but let's get this in perspective. There were some 600 odd people racing on the Saturday

A measurment of 'riders per km' at any one time would put some of this in perspective. (ie you count soloists as one and pairs or complete teams as one rather than total entries) Indeed I have read this figure 'advertised' in the blurb of I forget which 24 hour race last summer. In my experience the 'nicest' races are usually the ones with a more spaced out field. SPAM Erlestoke 12 has a lot of very narrow and hard-to-pass on singletrack and yet the three I have done have been the best natured races I have done, with respect to overall vibe and sensible/cheerful overtaking: I am sure the low numbers per km made a difference. Last bikefest at Cheddar (nb, never raced at AC) being opposite of this and also the 'fullest' race I have done.

Last couple I have done have been solo though and one thing I miss is waiting for team-mates and people-watching the changover tantrums. 😆

we came away from the event and our reaction was how friendly everyone had been!

Today was my first time at Bikefest and I thought exactly the same thing. I was warned before the event that I'd probably get shouted at but every rider that passed me was polite and said thanks afterwards if I'd moved across 😀

1`m not fast and was overtaken quite often doing 36 min laps but didnt get any abuse from people passing me .The course was 5.7 miles? Laps were 26 up to 45 ish.I thought it was a friendly and well run event.

I've mellowed out a bit now after a kip (4hours friday night before driving to Bristol didn't help) and I probably agree that the majority of people were polite, although I usually heard them coming on the singletrack and took a high line on the berms shouting for them to take the inside whilst pointing. Although the guy who shouted that he was going to pass on my left on the 15 foot wide gravelly climb may have been a tad too excited about being in a team jersey.
Well done to all who raced ( and managed it politely ) and see you next year, I'm gonna do some training next time.

I spent large sections of the course alone so it was far from crowded ime. I also thought that people were more polite if anything compared to previous years and the bike fest has always been a relatively relaxed event anyway.

There were quite a few team jerseys out there .We were team bike city(well 3 of us had team jerseys!) It didnt make me any quicker though

Sympathies with the OP but let's get this in perspective. There were some 600 odd people racing on the Saturday
how long was the course? I hear talk of 30-40 minute laps so 10-12kms?
A measurment of 'riders per km' at any one time would put some of this in perspective. (ie you count soloists as one and pairs or complete teams as one rather than total entries) Indeed I have read this figure 'advertised' in the blurb of I forget which 24 hour race last summer. In my experience the 'nicest' races are usually the ones with a more spaced out field.

It's around 10km, and there were 120 four-person teams, 50 pairs and 80 solo-ists. That makes approx 25 racers per km. How does that compare to other events?

It certainly felt pretty quiet [edit!] after the first two laps or so of madness when everyone was bunched. Of course the course has a good proportion of tight singletrack.

Once the bunching cleared it wasnt that bad at all there was the odd occasion where 2 or 3 riders came by at the same time but by and large there were no bottlenecks .If I went by a solo rider I gave encouragement as that was a hot day to be out for 12 hours

It's around 10km, and there were 120 four-person teams, 50 pairs and 80 solo-ists. That makes approx 25 racers per km. How does that compare to other events? It certainly felt pretty quite after the first two laps or so of madness when everyone was bunched.

I thought it was fairly "quiet" on track, certainly as the day went on I had a couple of fairly clear laps with minimal need to overtake, and not much being overtaken.

I hope I was fairly considerate when overtaking - "can I pass when its safe?" rather than piling through, though I did see one hilarious moment of chaos as 2 people arrived behind me while I was waiting for a chance to overtake and proceeded to make a pigs ear of trying to get round 3 people in one go! On the whole people overtaking me seemed pretty sound too. I've certainly been to events where there have been more idiots.

clubber +1. Repeating comments in other BBF thread, but the field WAS thinner than last year, I had entire sections (eg. quarry) to myself regularly.

so....how is my bike?

Only had one guy being a bit of a dick, I know what team and he was a young guy...so I'll let him off. I think I just laughed at him a bit at the time. As those above have hinted, if you're racing with a someone else's name on your back you'd think you'd take the effort to leave a good impression.

On the whole though I was passing more than being passed, and I find the quickest, easiest way past is to ask folk to let me know when and how they want me to pass, or "let me know where and how it's safe for you" and stressing there's no rush. Invariable people are better disposed towards you and you get by fairly quick with minimal effort for all concerned.

I think the problem is with this sort of event for some folk it's a race, and for others it's a challenge just to be out all day. That's different to a "regular" style XC race that the fast guys will do most often, where everybody's out to go flat out and jockey for position more (and be understanding of it).

Godihatehills... its fine... Dillon has it...51 and counting. Glad your feeling better dude. You also asked if you finished the lap about 50 times. All the really important stuff. Not at all worried about your 2 second memory and 2" gash on your chin.You reminded me of Dori from finding nemo.

Godihatehills... its fine... Dillon has it...51 and counting. Glad your feeling better dude. You also asked if you finished the lap about 50 times. All the really important stuff. Not at all worried about your 2 second memory and 2" gash on your chin.You reminded me of Dori from finding nemo.

Jonny are the chap who spoke to my wife in the ambulance?
Thanks for that it was really reassuring- although apparently phone calls from ambulances = bikes on ebay.
sorry if I did your head in= for what its worth you weren't the only one who had to endure mindless babble.
get well!

Personally I didnt find it that bad this year, the pace was quick and obviously people were keen to get a move on. As others have said, Ashton Court isnt that wide so doesnt lend itself to overtaking but there are spaces to overtake every 30 seconds or so at the most and there is no excuse for being an arse regardless. Usually when I heard people coming up behind me and I just shouted "on my right" so everyone was aware of the proceedings.

To be honest, I'm always surprised solo riders dont have a number on their back too so anyone coming up behind them knows that after 11 hours of racing, their mental state may be similar to their physical state... It would make a bit of a difference.

Awesome atmosphere though and loads of shouting and support in the event village throughout the day so huge thanks to all involved, the caterers and the air cadets.

Yeah that's me. You were fine dude. You were totally out of it. I had gas and air and morphine so I doubt our conversation was that coherent!!

BTW how was your bike?

I totally agree. Solo riders could have a tag on the saddle or glow stick like they do at Torque.

haven't seen it I got released from hospital earlier today as I was struggling to make new memories until about 8am today - bike was carted off by a mate... theres some blood and broken spokes and twisted bars.
all good.

thanks for your help tho mate
get well

Can we just get a bit of perspective here.it is a race with different distances,I podiumed in pairs and was thanking everyone who let me through but I was also aware that the team guys were gonna be faster so when I heard wheels coming ups I called back to give direction on which way to pass me.nobody had to call left or right to me.its difficult i know,but some people are not used to racing etiquette and sometimes when the gap between you and you competitor is small there is an urgency.i personally found everyone really happy to oblige apart from one person who told me it won't get me anywhere..I think everyone on track deserves a big pat on the back for running their own race.

A few thoughts...

The race route should come out of the singletrack and into open field more frequently to allow over taking. Or just design in multiple route option and passing spots.

There was at least one scuffle back at octoberfest due to deliberately awkward overtaking.

I used a pugsley and a bugle horn at octoberfest. The horn for annoying people with clown noises, and the big tyres to allow everyone to pass me on the climbs.

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"You reminded me of Dori from finding nemo. "

LOL. Glad that you two are feeling better.

Ive done BBF and Octoberfest for several years, I find it very friendly and polite.

These threads always appear after the event, one or two people have a bad experience, the majority have a great experience.

There will always be one or two nobs and one or two who fall off, its inevitable.

In general I found it OK, I'll be honest and I say I probably pulled one slightly iffy overtake with no harm done. I think being overtaken on a climb by someone shouting "Elite!" only to find they had singletrack skills that wouldn't get you through a cycle proficiency test blurred my judgement.

I've done a few of these now, so I don't feel intimidated by faster riders coming up behind. I just let them past at the first good opportunity. I think some newer people feel intimidated and that saps all the fun out of it.

+1 for some sort of tags for the solo riders like Mayhem.