[Closed] Bike warranty issue,need advice please

Was it repaired by the same local bike shop? It's dubious but I'd be asking the question that's for sure.

That's nonsense.

I'd be back to the shop & asking them to fit a new crank arm for you.

If it came loose so soon, it clearly not been tightened properly in the first place.

Sorry but it's the owners responsibility to check every thing is tight prior to a ride, not the shops.

Things come loose, could be the brakes next time, who's fault would that be?

yeah but a pedal doesnt come off like that if its been fitted properly in the first place. I had a guy come in with a bike he had ridden infrequently, the pedal came off, but was installed correctly - so without a though we changed the crank arm - not the customers fault.

I'd challenge back if i were you.

Pedals came with a £1000 bike? Thought they pretty much all came pedal-less these days. As has been said mind, it technically is the responsibility of the owner to make sure everything is in proper order before riding. This is the thing though, it may have been fitted improperly to begin with, but has since been ridden without it obviously being checked over until it went wrong.

And it certainly isn't a 'bike warranty' issue. Cranks are almost always under the warranty of the manufacturer of the part, not the frame manufacturer.

they get around the warranty is by saying the bike should be checked thouroughly every so many rides miles ect

The shop that you bought it from fitted the pedals ? If so they should replace the crank no questions asked. Go back and insist they do this.
Pedals correctly fitted DO NOT just come loose.

Sorry but it's the owners responsibility to check every thing is tight prior to a ride, not the shops.

Things come loose, could be the brakes next time, who's fault would that be?

In this case, with respect, that's bollocks.
Shops fault entirely. Pedals don't EVER come loose unless they aren't fitted properly.
I'd be mortified if that was me who'd PDId the bike.

The thing is that a pedal doesn't just go from being on tight to hanging off , there would have been plenty of warnings that something was loose , noises while pedaling being the most obvious . It's a bit like getting a puncture , continuing to ride and then complaining that the rim was knackered .

The thing is that a pedal doesn't just go from being on tight to hanging off , there would have been plenty of warnings that something was loose , noises while pedaling being the most obvious .

To you yes and perhaps others, but as the Op's girlfriend was using some cheapo pedals supplied with the bike she might very well not be that experienced. You'd be surprised at the lack of mechanical sympathy some people have.
I worked in a LBS 30+ years ago, if a customer came in with a loose pedal and a striped crank I'd fitted 😯 I wouldn't have dared tell the boss, I'd have snuck it back out and paid for the parts myself.

Fair point , it can be a bit of a grey area . For what it costs it would probably be better for the shop to just fix it and keep the customer happy in this instance .

Pedals just don't come lose if they've been fitted correctly (or there's a fault). And the fact that they're happy to bodge it back in with loctite speaks volumes to me. I'd be mortified if a customer brought a bike back to me because the pedal had come off and would be bending over backwards to sort a good permanent repair by replacing the arm.

Completely agree with the above. I ran a shop for years and I never had a pedal come loose on its own. The only time I have seen this is when it was not properly tightened in the first place. Repairing with loctite is completely inadequate and I would suggest it is liable to a catastrophic failure.

I seem to remember Leisurelakesbikes installing my pedals on my new ride with PTFE tape, complete incompetence. To say I was surprised and pissed off was an understatement.

Even I knew what PTFE tape was and what it's intended use at the age of 18 😆

They won't be able to claim this is a warranty failure from the manufacturer, as it's their cock up. Warranty doesn't cover improper assembly. Worst case I've heard of is a cable on a carbon frame eating a hole in the frame as the shop cabled it wrong. Shop ended up paying for a new frame.

So hence they are trying to fob you off.

They must replace it!

pedals should be fitted using a crow's foot and suitable torque wrench typically 40nm

they should never come loose with that level of torque input into the crank boss. The only circumstance would be if the customer has removed that pedal and not refitted it properly.

I would never accept a bike back with a pedal 1/2 fitted into a damage thread using "loctite"....recipe for serious personal injury!

Go back to the shop, its their issue.

Big thanks for all replies.For those asking the pedals were supplied and fitted by the lbs.it also had a six week service in July. They say that Cube have refused to replace the crank under warranty as it is the owners responsibility to check things aren't loose. It sounds as though a lot of people think a pedal shouldn't come loose and as the bike is very new and hasn't been ridden much/hard and was recently serviced that the lbs could take responsibility. But they seem very sure that it's not their responsibility - their offer as a good will gesture is to replace the chain set for a much reduced fee of £140 with no labour charge. Thanks again for everyone's feedback

The LBS is talking shite. A properly fitted set of pedals won't come loose like that.

Time to name and shame

£140, a GOOD WILL gesture ... 😥

I wouldn't want a bad will quote.

The shop and cube are right, it isn't a warranty issue.

It is however a build issue and is the responsibility of the shop and they should replace the crank arm as they assembled it incorrectly.

Talk to your local trading standards.

what chainset is it?

Presumably it's the drive side? Did you take it back for its first service to the same place? They absolutely are talking bollocks.

It's the shops issue not cubes. Warranty or not your contract of sale is with the shop not cube. If the shop believe it is faulty then they can seek compensation from cube once they've fixed your bike.

Sale of goods act - if your product develops a fault in the first 6 months the shop must prove that it wasn't defective or of unsatisfactory quality at the time of sale. I would suggest they can't so should fix it.

My bet is the pedal was cross-threaded at some point, hence the thread on the crank breaking off, so aslong as only the shop have put pedals off and on then they should shoulder the blame.

Also £140 for a crankset? Whats on there now and what are they replacing it with. Apart from the high end carbon cubes I cant see anything that has a crankset worth more than £90 on it.

A pedal does not need to be tightened that much in all fairness and should have been grease so it never seizes the thread.

Your friend paid them for a product and service, and service is what they should have got right but now it is them that need to be offering customer service to resolve issue.

end of.

£140 seems ridiculous, you can get a Shimano XT M782 10 Speed Triple Chainset from chain reaction for £100.

This shop clearly has no pride in their work.

I am of the opinion of some on here that the shop should be taking responsibility here especially since they provided the pedals and it has been back for a check up. Locktite is not a suitable solution to the problem.

Hi it's my bike and yes the shop that sold me the bike also completed the service. It was a free service that you're entitled to as part of the cycle to work scheme. I don't know what chain set they're offering, not knowing what one was I felt too silly to ask. Since having the bike I didn't even think to check all the bolts were tight. I will from now on but I definitely stopped riding it as soon as I felt the pedal wobble. It's just a bit confusing as the shop seem so sure that they couldn't be at fault and suggested that Cube agreed that the mechanic's action to use loctite was appropriate. I can contact trading standards and get some more advice but I've lost confidence in using it - I realise bikes will fail when you're riding them for all sorts of reasons but the mechanic told me that using loctite only 'might' work as some of the threads are busted.

I appreciate the posts and realise that the shop may not be at fault - it's tricky when you know so little about mechanics

Surely a sub £1000 cube hard tail is going to be a deore level crank at best, rrp £90 crc £60. £140 much reduced with no labour??? That's mick taking surely.

If the shop tells you to do one its your fault, I'd probably take less offence than I would if they offered me that. What's the bike and is it like for like crankset? For a sub deore level crank and probably plastic test ride pedals I'd just sort it myself I think if they refused but if they try and pull the wool with any much reduced tat I'd be on the warpath..

I highly doubt that Cube agree with the use of Loctite - it's certainly not the correct way to fix it.

Surely a sub £1000 cube hard tail is going to be a deore level crank at best, rrp £90 crc £60. £140 much reduced with no labour??? That's mick taking surely.

If the shop tells you to do one its your fault, I'd probably take less offence than I would if they offered me that. What's the bike and is it like for like crankset? For a sub deore level crank and probably plastic test ride pedals I'd just sort it myself I think if they refused but if they try and pull the wool with any much reduced tat I'd be on the warpath, especially if they're playing on your lack of knowledge.

Seems everyone just agrees someone didn't tighten it up enough...

BUT surely if it wasn't tightened at the start then it would have been loose at the 6 week check and they would have tightened it then, so seems a bit odd.

Could be either persons fault really, but everyone just saying it must have been the shops fault and they have to prove it blah blah blah, but the shop will have a PDI sheet showing that the mechanic ticked a box saying the pedal was tight and probably the same for the 6 week check so they can (on paper) prove it if needed.

but either way you would think they can do something to try and resolve it without charging that much....

Ask the shop what they torqued the pedals to when they did the service...

Hi - when I went in Saturday I asked who had serviced it and was told as their system had changed it was almost impossible to check. I got an email off the assistant manager today who said '...all your fixtures and fittings would have been torqued to the correct tensions. This would have been in the region of around 40 Nm - a significant amount of torque to ensure the pedal would remain firmly in place'. I'm not clear from this whether the assistant manager has seen the mechanics report sheet or whether he means what he expects was done - either way I can't imagine the mechanic would've left the box unticked even in the event that he didn't tighten the pedal. I didn't get any feedback or report after the service.

Pedal threads and pedals have a good tolerance and you must never use Loctite on them, ever. I use coppaslip to prevent seizure and like everyone here, if a pedal is fitted properly, they wont just undo if done properly. Its threaded that way to prevent it from doing this. I have never lost a pedal and the responsibility and credibility of the shop hangs in the balance on a poor response of repair/ replacement so far.
If the pedal did now pull out the crank, the potential for injury could be massive and for the price that a bike shop could buy a new crank, would be small change for their mis- build issue. Yes, you should check bikes before every ride with a spanner check, but a pedal doesn't come loose and I am sure and me included , don't check pedals , just 5mm and 6 mm bolts etc.

Yes you should check everything every ride

But.... the shop is completely wrong to bodge a repair for something that the is 99% probability it was their fault and then charge you a huge sum of money on the pretense it is a "goodwill gesture" .... not cool

Sounds like a well known chain rather than a LBS, is that correct?

No-one but the shop can really help you out here so keep going in and badgering them.

If you really get no-where then at the very worst outcome I'm sure someone friendly from STW probably has a spare crank gathering dust they could give you and help fit if local 😀 Not that it should come to that of course- don't let the shop wriggle out of it

Utter tosh. Pedal falling off is caused by one thing only - mechanic poorly building a bike.
I have a load of lbs experience and if you came into the shop I worked in with a fallen off pedal the fix would be simple.
Check for impact damage.
Check it's the original pedal fitted by shop.
Ask customer if they had adjusted/removed pedal.

If none of those were likely then the store replaced the damaged goods and the mechanic had the piss ripped out of him for being shite.

I feel more informed now so will go back to them tomorrow and see what their position is on some of the comments expressed here - cheers Helen

Also to the people on this thread who regularly tighten your pedals... Are you kidding?

Checking your bolts before every ride? Seriously?

Pedals don't EVER come loose unless they aren't fitted properly.

Not true in my experience, a couple of years ago I had a set of Straitline pedals that just would not stay tight.

I knew of two other (quite experienced DH riders) who also had this with their Straitlines.

Every other set of pedals I've used (Eastons, DMR's, Shimanos etc) have all been fine.

Utter tosh. Pedal falling off is caused by one thing only - mechanic poorly building a bike.

Really?

I've clouted a pedal fairly hard on a rock, stripped the threads and fell off/out fairly shortly afterwards.

Also to the people on this thread who regularly tighten your pedals... Are you kidding?

I thought this too. I'll wager nobody who's said that everything should be checked before every ride actually does it themselves.

40nm,

Copaslipped and just nipped up for me.

40nm,

Copaslipped and just nipped up for me.

Agreed. Torquing pedals up to 40nm just makes them very difficult to get off when you need to strip the drivetrain. I've shredded my knuckles too many times removing semi-seized pedals so just nip them up to about 20nm nowadays. No problems so far.

It seems worth asking here what happens if pedals are over-tightened into the cranks. If the thread starts to yield, will the pedal come loose later. Just asking...

Maybe the mechanic didn't tighten them correctly. Maybe they were just a shitty £3 set of pedals for demoing bikes, not designed for off road use, and they weren't built to the same tolerances so worked their way loose. Maybe the OPs girlfriend clipped a rock.

Maybe the mechanic put the pedals on with sufficient force for a good set of pedals but they worked their way loose because they were cheap shit or they took a knock?

In the shop I used to work in we went through hundreds of sets of those pedals as some noobs just won't accept that an expensive bike DOES NOT come with pedals. We came across duff ones on a fairly regular basis.

I always strongly advised customers against using them off road.

It seems worth asking here what happens if pedals are over-tightened into the cranks. If the thread starts to yield, will the pedal come loose later. Just asking...

Interesting point.

Some cranks have a steel threaded insert, some are soft alloy threads faced with a removable / loose-able steel washer.

Torquing an alloy threaded crank to 40Nm "might" cause it to strip when used.

Undoing pedals is once of the worst knuckle / chainring interface scenario, hence, I just nip them up. I thought that they were threaded as they are, to keep tight while riding, rather than undoing...

Agree with everything said here. Pedals rarely work loose - and then only after lots of use, if the bearings seize, or similar. Certainly if ridden only lightly, checked after six weeks etc, coming loose while riding along - on the balance of probabilities you'd say it was shop error.

If they can't produce documentation to confirm it was done correctly, you'd think they'd have to accept the blame and cover the cost.

Also cost price on a complete SLX chainset (and as others have said, it's unlikely to be this level and certainly not any higher if it's a £1000 RRP bike) is more like half of what you're being quoted. And given that the shop will be able to keep the bottom bracket, chainrings and left hand crank (assuming stripped thread is in the drive-side crank - if it's actually in the left hand crank, that's available as a spare for much less) they've got £70 worth of spares they can use/sell right there. So as a gesture of goodwill, if they're unable to prove conclusively they did their job right, I'd expect them to sort it free of charge. Assuming the facts of the matter are as laid out by the OP, we'd be doing that (and as others have said, would be absolutely mortified and want to make sure we did everything possible to apologise and reassure the customer).

The only situation I'd expect the customer to accept responsibility would be if they had removed and re-fitted the pedals themselves (or if someone else not connected with the shop had done so), or if there had been a substantial length of time or amount of riding (dozens of rides, several months at least) without a competent person checking it over. If that's the case OP, I think the offer of a reduced-price chainset is a good one (but £140 isn't reduced, unless it's at least XT level and even then that's very nearly RRP including all the bits you won't need).

Certainly agree that it's not warranty for either the bike or crank manufacturer, assuming it's all as the shop and OP are describing, and that threadlock is not the way to go.

Sounds like a well known chain rather than a LBS, is that correct?

Have i missed it, who is the shop as i dont wanna go there? 🙁

Pedal threads only need to be nipped, the pedalling rotation will keep them tight.

I'd say it might be a case of only finger tight and the crap bearings in the cheap pedals have dragged.

But, more it was tight. Too tight and the threads have been damaged. then failed under load.
More likely that this, than not tight enough.

All that said, name and shame. That's now way to operate. Very poor CS.

to the OP, be aware that "PDI" sheets are generally box-ticking exercises, where mechanics get lazy and just tick all the boxes through. does not prove anything!

as a personal example, I collected a new road bike (Cannondale) on Saturday last week from a well known chain retailer in London.

According to the PDI sheet I received with my "welcome" pack:

-pedals fitted (no pedals were provided, I had to walk 2 miles home as they would not even give me plastic ones from the workshop!)

-saddle level (saddle was tipped back like a dirt jump bike)

-bell fitted (no bell to be seen anywhere)

-headset torqued (headset bearings rocking loose back and forth in head tube)

-brake bolts torqued (left brake pad rubbing on rear rim, with rear brake flopping side to side with finger pressure)

-controls set up (handlebar was rotated forwards in stem clamp so hoods were pointing downwards)

-gears adjusted (front mech rubbing on chainring in large chainring / small cog combo)

It seems worth asking here what happens if pedals are over-tightened into the cranks. If the thread starts to yield, will the pedal come loose later. Just asking...

If the pedal threads start to yield a little, everything's done up tight so you remove most of the cyclic loading from the threads, so they generally won't fail later on from fatigue - the only credible way they'd fail would be at the time of fitting (or, yes, when hitting a big rock).

If it's done up loose, all the cyclic loading goes through the threads and you are quite likely to get a fatigue failure over time.

In this case, if the mileage you are quoting is correct then it's essentially "less than a big ride", so it should be replaced as the shop should have checked the crank. Sounds to me like you are being fobbed off, and if necessary you need to take it to trading standards & name and shame - you shouldn't be going through this stress and hassle from someone elses cock up.

Another ex-workshop and bike shop manager here. If the usage stated by the OP is correct it would have been repaired FoC in my stores. the laughable £140 "good will" offer sounds suspiciously like profiteering from an unsuspecting punter to me too.

the pedalling rotation will keep them tight

Rorschach - Member
the pedalling rotation will keep them tight

Wrong way round there chief.

It's not the drag in the bearings from the pedalling, but the way the forces rotate around the joint that tightens them up (well, doesn't assist their unwinding).

Oooh, forgot to say, former LBS Saturday mechanic who regularly had the piss taken out of me, but never for not tightening a pedal correctly, and never as much as the boss's mates had the piss taken out of them.

I've had shocking service from 2 Local ish BS over the past 6 Months, their idea of changing pivot bolts is totally different to mine in that it was corroded in, hence the none replacement.

The mechanic tried informing me he had OCD and they were definitely changed :-0

Second to that I bought my son "10 years Old a Spesh hot rock, bought for it paid threw it in the van got home and my son pedalled 3 times and then back pedalled 3 times. Trying not be over zealous I kept asking him to STOP pedalling backwards!

This went on so when he eventually burst into tears he sat down on grass refusing to ride it because the most he could pedal was 3 times without the pedals falling off, as I picked it up the grip came off in my hand and the rear brake blocks were loose digging into the tyre,

I wouldn't mind but the shop assistant made a right fuss about PDI ing it and torque ing everything up. That cost me a 99 flake ice cream and I had to buy him some bright pink plastic pedals 🙁

Pink FFS!

Any way, I digressed a tad there but feel better for that,,,,,,

Ask your LBS for it in writing that Loctite is sufficient to hold the part in place to prevent harm. That is the least they can do. If they are adamant that CUBE have stated this is sufficient ask them to validate this in writing too.

Rorschach
"the pedalling rotation will keep them tight
Wrong way round there chief"

Really, so the pedalling rotation undoes them then?

Ask the LBS to confirm in writing that the repair is safe and doesn't put you at risk of injury. Also ask what crankset they are providing in the goodwill gesture and post it on here so we can tell you it's true cost.

@rorschach and @speshpaul - a bit off-topic, but my understanding for the reverse threading on left crank is not specifically that pedal rotation will then tighten them up, but rather that it prevents the pedals from loosening themselves under normal usage. Small distinction, I know.

EDIT: [url= http://blog.everydayscientist.com/?p=2655 ]Here's a small article about it.[/url] Precession is what the sciency types call it.

What he said

crap bearings in the cheap pedals have dragged

Hi - I'm waiting for the manager to contact me and I also asked this morning for Cube's contact info. I will let you know how I get on but some more good ideas here so cheers again

No cubes come with pedals so it will be some cheap shite off something else.

As above the amount of people who don't listen about the stock pedals being called "demo" or "testride" pedals for a reason then come back shouting about the pedal falling apart after 6 months of winter commuting....

BUT I haven't seen any strip the thread/come loose so would probably give the benefit of the doubt.

Lots of years ago I bought a £2000 bike. The nice chap in the shop included two pairs of pedals, SPDs and Times. On that basis the LBS might have thrown in a better pair for a new rider.

PS it was a t*nd*m, and ISTR the NS rear pedal was threadlocked in.

[quote=wiggles ]No cubes come with pedals so it will be some cheap shite off something else.
As above the amount of people who don't listen about the stock pedals being called "demo" or "testride" pedals for a reason then come back shouting about the pedal falling apart after 6 months of winter commuting....
A customer has the right to expect the pedals provided to be perfectly suitable for extended use. Those who work in shops that intentionally supply shoddy goods, please tell me which shops these are so I know to avoid them.

Cheap plastic pedals might fall to bits quite quickly, but if fitted properly they won't strip out the crank threads.

A customer has the right to expect the pedals provided to be perfectly suitable for extended use

Not if they are specifically told that the pedals aren't suitable for extended use.

A customer has the right to expect the pedals provided to be perfectly suitable for extended use.

If the bike doesn't come with pedals and they don't want to pay for a proper set, so the lbs do them a favour, throw in a set of 'demo' pedals for free but warn the customer they wont last, I don't see the problem.

A customer has the right to expect the pedals provided to be perfectly suitable for extended use. Those who work in shops that intentionally supply shoddy goods, please tell me which shops these are so I know to avoid them.

As already said I would always advise to purchase some proper pedals even if a bike is supplied with (crap) pedals which the manifacturers specifically state is not for extended use. If they do not want this they can be provided with the ones that other people chose not to have and advised it will be enough to get them home but won't last long and are not for proper use of the bike...

[i]but[/i] as I and bencooper already said, I have seen plenty of pedals fail but usually the bearings collapse and the body comes off the axle never had one take out the threads...

I am slightly worried about the people saying that you only need to nip pedals up a bit because they're self tightening. Yes, they are, but that only works against rotational forces - the dynamic loading from pedaling could make a not-so-tight pedal work it's way out.

Pedals spanners are usually pretty long for a reason.

Since the bike shop isn't being particularly helpful I'd just drop a nice email to cube along the lines of you've bought one of there bikes from this dealer and the pedal threads have broken away. Say you're concerned with their suggested solution using Loctite. It's prob worth mentioning you're not happy about the possible bill of £140 so soon after buying a new bike. Hopefully they will sort you out and it might even cause the shop manager a bit of embarrassment.

Whilst you should keep an eye on things and the damage will probably been done while riding with the pedal lose. I agree that a correctly fit pedal shouldn't come lose. There is a chance that the lad building the bike just screw the pedals in with his hand and planned to nip it up later and never did, or he over-tightened it damaging the threads, or started to cross thread it when fitting damaging the threads before removing and refitting... there are many things the shop could have done wrong but they're clearly not prepared to acknowledge they could be at fault or seem to have any interest in keeping you as the customer happy!

Desperate to find out what the replacement cranks would be.

Pedals spanners are usually pretty long for a reason.

Cos they do get tight after while?

Just so you know, a £999 Cube hardtail is available with XT cranks: http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Cube-LTD-Race-27-5-Mountain-Bike-2015-Hardtail-MTB_74537.htm

So it's not necessarily £140 for Alivio cranks, not saying the offer from the shop is very good, but just thought I'd point it out.