Bike Park Wales - too much for an 11 year old?

Nope.
They'll love it.
Wheels can be on ground or off.
There's really something for everyone.

They’ll be fine, the green and blues can all be done wheels on the ground just fine. If they’re up for slightly more tech then some reds might also be ok. Maybe avoid the likes of rim dinger / hot stepper / locomotion / roots manoeuvres. Vicious Valley might be a goer though potentially.

Loads of stuff to keep them busy for a day overall.

Is there a long weekend there, or more a day at a time?

Is there a long weekend there

If you can afford it 😳

Indeed.  Particularly for 4

But travelling down from Yorkshire it’s a balance of travel costs versus riding costs.

Yup fine. My lad went at 8 I think, deffo by 9.

Edit.
Whyte T403

https://flic.kr/p/2aHThBp

I echo everyone's comments; plenty of little rippers there this weekend having a ball.

Thank you all.

We’ll book.

Is full face mandatory there, even if pootling down a green ?

Would highly recommend going midweek - pricing is less awful and you won't have joeys trying to overtake you on a blue trail with their 180 mm gnar rig all day.

each to their own, but if Dalby is your local there is no way on earth id make a 10hr round trip to ride BPW. Then again, if its uplift you're after - there's not a lot of other options, esp for the 11yr old.

Is full face mandatory there, even if pootling down a green ?

nope.

Last time I went there was a group of maybe six or so 4-5 year olds being taken down the green by a staff member. They all seemed to be having a blast

We’re at Dalby most weekends.

Dalby is my local, but I’ve been riding it 20 years give or take and I like riding different places.

Uplift is good for younger riders because it means they’re less tired on the descents which just makes everything better (for the parents at least)

I was concerned about taking 13yo jnr on a 100mm hardtail to Afan. I'm sure he'll be OK, although I may rent him a FS to add to his weekend experience.

you won’t have joeys trying to overtake you on a blue trail with their 180 mm gnar rig all day.

this hasnt ever happened to my wife/kids on our 3 visits BTW. 8 and 9 at the time of teh visits and they think its the best place ever - LOVED it.

We were at BPW last week with two 11 year olds. One is fine and the other is not into it but they both loved the Blue's. Expensive yes, worth it, Hell Yes!

PS we went to Afan pre-lockdown #1 when they were 8/9 during Oct half-term and rode four days solid. On White's Level they were the only people under 40 not on e-bikes 🙂

Just out of interest, what is the green trail like?

I am taking the wife and 11 year old there in August, they are both capable of the blues but I don't want to make the mistake of missing out on the green if its really fun.

The boy isn't really into bikes but really enjoyed Glentress's blues the other week (like most 11 yr olds he is lazy when it comes to climbing..)

the green is great for the kids and a decent 1st run warmup for them. i enjoy it when i ride it with teh kids. its easy but what would you expect

Is full face mandatory there, even if pootling down a green ?

nope.

I guess I should have worded it, at what point is a Full Face mandatory? Or is it rider discretion?

I wish these places had interesting up hills built in to them. I quite actually like riding up hill !

Tell you what about BPW tho - it's shockingly expensive now for a full day.

I guess I should have worded it, at what point is a Full Face mandatory? Or is it rider discretion?

I wish these places had interesting up hills built in to them. I quite actually like riding up hill !

Completely up to the rider. First time we went there a bunch of 4, then 5 then 3... all went past the cafe with full faces... then a few more... So me and my mate went in and bought one each.

When guiding the youngsters i was happy in a standard XC helmet. But anything more, i'm in a FF.

The Beast of Burden climb isn't just fire road. It has a bit of trail too.

Did it a few times in just a normal lid inc all the blacks, back in the day

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Broken jaw on singletrack in my local stomping ground pushed me towards FF - wouldn't ride much of BPW without one now

Can’t book.

Can’t make the website register me.

Can’t get the phones to pick up (closed apparently)

at what point is a Full Face mandatory?

This reminds me of the first time we went to Ffestiniog.
Went to sign on and got asked if we'd been before.
After answering no the guy went through the rules.
"Reds are OK with an open face lid"
"Blacks it's mandatory to wear a full face but there's no one at the top to stop you so do what you want"
Kind of set the tone for the day.😀

@VanHalen thank you

Personally I always wear a full face helmet anytime I’m on an uplift day. I’m attacking the trails without the fatigue from climbing to get to the top so I’m almost always going faster than normal. I like my teeth.

I was thinking from the OP's perspective, its a long way to go and expense to then be told you cant ride. (not that I know if they have full face or not)

Do I need body armour and a full face helmet?
We strongly recommend the use of body armour, goggles and full face helmet

So not mandatory

The 15 year old does (edit - a full face that is). He’s never actually worn it in anger.

We’ve been riding Les Gets for 10 years open face (I started with the now 15 one on a LOCT), he jumps and gets enduro coaching open face.

The younger one has broken a tooth crashing a bike, but that was a road bike, in fact they’ve both had worse crashes on their road bikes than on their MTBs.

I'm not against full face, I’ve just never found one that fits my odd shaped head.

Broken jaw on singletrack in my local stomping ground pushed me towards FF – wouldn’t ride much of BPW without one now

My last trip to BPW a couple of years ago - was wearing a Bell Super 3R at the time, which saved my face, as my head smacked the ground pretty hard. This was on Norkle!!!

And yes, I was a tubs 2 years ago

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Ok then.

Supplementary question - who does helmets that fit large but narrow heads?

Whenever I try a full face on, it’s too small over my forehead / front to back, but there’s loads of free space either side.

It's impossible to say fella, helmets are subjective.

Buy 5-6 from wiggle/CRC and hopefully keep 1.

Bluegrass for me

IGM.
I had that problem when trying to book a month ago. Gave up and tried a day later and it worked.

I ride the blues and some reds in lycra and normal helmet. Also love climbing and aim to get around 2000m in. Found a couple of different ways up by following tyre tracks into the forest about halfway up the fire road climb.

ill be getting a fullface for the youngest for the next visit. she`ll be doing reds with me. otherwise the wife and eldest will be in half faces.

if i go with the lads its a full face job but i ride alot faster! if you are uplifting its a no brainer! if you are pushing it I'd recommend elbow pads that fit and dont move also. i've had some right nasty gravel rash crashing at BPW! (avoiding a mate who crashed infront!)

just for the opposing viewpoint: I don't wear a FF at BPW to make me just reign it in a bit. It's easy to get carried away and think that a FF is going to mean you can go that little bit faster, or take other "small risks" I've found the a FF can  really insulates you from your surroundings, so it's easier to misjudge how fast you're going.

An open face constantly reminds you that you're exposed and you need to ride in your limits.

It's personal choice though, and I think everyone needs to make that assessment

just for the opposing viewpoint: I don’t wear a FF at BPW to make me just reign it in a bit. It’s easy to get carried away and think that a FF is going to mean you can go that little bit faster, or take other “small risks” I’ve found the a FF can really insulates you from your surroundings, so it’s easier to misjudge how fast you’re going.

An open face constantly reminds you that you’re exposed and you need to ride in your limits.

I don't get that at all. in the same way i don't ride slower without armour... i hit things at BPW the same either way... as hard as i can.

 i hit things at BPW the same either way… as hard as i can.

Cool, other people have different skills that they want to improve on or develop other than just speed or aggressiveness

"Dalby is local and the red and blue normally get mixed"

I'd love it if you could share the best mix of the two. Ours are bored of the blue, not yet skilled enough for much of the red but whenever i ride the red i think there's bits they could do. Somehow, I seem unable to put together a decent mix of the easier red sections, linked together by the blue trail.

Is it?

I see this a lot and it's a bit of a fallacy.

Prices are (weekday / weekend day / whole weekend)
Revs - 1000 to 1600 (6hrs) uplift = £43 / £45 / £90
Dyfi - 1000 to 1600 (6hrs) uplift = N/A / £43 / £86
BPW - 1000 to 1600 (6hrs) Uplift = £45 / £48 / £90 - Sept 5th to April 15th.
BPW - 0900 to 1330 (4.5hrs) Uplift = £37 - April 16th - Sept 4th
BPW - 1430 to 1900 (4.5hrs) Uplift = £37 - April 16th - Sept 4th

If you booked both the AM & PM pass in the Apr - Sept months you'd get 9 hours of uplift for £74 on a weekend. With a fixed one hour break.

With the Sept to Apr months & weekdays they run continuously and you potentially lose money if you stop for lunch over that 6 hour uplift window.

So by the hour compared to it's £8 per hour for 6, or £8.22 per hour for 9. (not sure where else in the UK you can uplift for 9 hours?)

Not really 'shockingly expensive' now is it?

Edit: no I don't work or have any loyalty to BPW, but this trope is pretty boring now and is incredibly lazy.

Tell you what about BPW tho – it’s shockingly expensive now for a full day.

 

for the kids/wife the half day session on a weekend is more than enough.

last time we went i did a couple of laps on teh EEB myself before their uplift session started.

oh and the sunday afternoon session is better for the kids as the park is (or at least seems) half empty by half the way through the session.

BPW – 0900 to 1330 (4.5hrs) Uplift = £37 – April 16th – Sept 4th
BPW – 1430 to 1900 (4.5hrs) Uplift = £37 – April 16th – Sept 4th

I'm different to many in the context that 4.5 hours is nice for me... it's about right and i've had plenty of fun and enough playing to keep me more than happy.

I know some people say "oh i need 12 uplifts a day"... me, meh... i'm OK with 5-6.

So the £37 for BPW on a split day is actually about what i'm after.

@gingerflash I prefer the southwestern end - between the visitor centre and Dixon’s Hollow - but varying it works best for me.

Up the blue then cut across on fire road to where the red comes out of Bomb Hole Alley then red back in, drooping onto the tail of the blue if the younger one’s tired.

Up the red to Dixon’s, the cut across to Bomb Hole Alley, the cut across to the blue and back down the blue, extending onto the tail end of the red if legs allow.

Start at the lake, up the red climb, mix in green and red bits to Dixon’s then flow down off piste - to be fair we do this on gravel bikes.

The main thing is not to tire the 11 year old and to vary the routes so all the features get picked up once in a while.

Thanks for that. I'll get the map and and try and piece that together.

@relapsed_mandalorian

All day at BPW - £74.

Sorry, that's bloody expensive. All day at BPW last time I went (not that long ago) was £45 ish.

So yeah, I stand by that. Especially as you actually have to queue for the uplift at BPW. QUEUE!

You go to Antur, you come down, there's a bus waiting, you get on it, go up, come down, there's a bus waiting, you get on it ... At BPW you can be waiting for two buses to fill before you get on one.

Might be a shorter day - but you get more runs in than at BPW.

I've had a full day at BPW and only got half a dozen or so runs in - back nearer it's inception, you were getting into double figures

It still is £45-48, just April-Sept. That's what I paid Monday just gone.

Yeah, £74 is expensive for the AM & PM pass, but again where else do you have the potential of 9 hours of uplift in the UK?

Nobody is forcing anyone to pay it, some of you act like this business owes you something.

As for Antur, I can find tougher fire roads.

The answer to a lot of the cost/number of runs issues above are to go midweek, outside of school hols.

I think it’s a bit of a cop out to have split the buses during Covid but then kept going on with it now - effectively increasing their money making ability. But then it’s a case of supply and demand and if people are willing to pay it then I guess why wouldn’t they do it.

I’m going in June but have deliberately booked a Friday so you’re getting a full day for not a ludicrous amount of money.

Antur is a good day out - but less trails and the weather always seems to be decidedly iffy there. The minibus uplift is very efficient though. I like it every few years.

BMCC is my favourite uplift centre though - some of my highest highs on a bike have been there.

As for Antur, I can find tougher fire roads.

Swoons......you’re my hero

I know, it's a burden I have to carry.

Not really ‘shockingly expensive’ now is it?

Edit: no I don’t work or have any loyalty to BPW, but this trope is pretty boring now and is incredibly lazy.

£5 pedal pass when it opened in 2013, now £15 - how is that not being greedy? 200% inflation in 9 years...

Also re. the uplift - as well as being the most expensive it's also the slowest, you'll get way more runs in at revs/antur/bmcc et al.

you’ll get way more runs in at revs/antur/bmcc et al.

Are they 7 minute trails?

Sixtapod into willy waver is 3.29km. that's a full blue at BPW.

How long are the others?

Are they 7 minute trails?

Sixtapod into willy waver is 3.29km. that’s a full blue at BPW.

How long are the others?

Well firstly I think it's unfair to go by distance - elevation is a better way for mtb trails.

But going off strava segments top to uplift point

BPW - 720ft
Revs - 830 ft
Antur - 670 ft
Dyfi - 1100 ft
BMCC - 500ft

And of all those, at BPW you get the fewest runs IME.

Well firstly I think it’s unfair to go by distance – elevation is a better way for mtb trails.

Ummmm why?

Because a steep trail or a flow trail starting and ending at the same place take the same amount of climbing to get to, but can significantly vary in length?

But can an 11 yr old ride it? Wasn’t that the question? 🤷🏻‍♂️

I don't know anyone that measures descending or climbing in distance.
The whole think is about elevation gain or loss.

Now you do.

Although technically I measure it in smiles, which BPW has tonnes of

But probably not if you went

I tooky son at 6. Not sure what I was thinking. It was a bad idea but he rode down ok.

At 8 he loved it.

At 11 he dropped me.

No still don't know anyone that measures height in KM's.
Thankfully.

Best tell Strava to delete the miles/km's ridden feature in every ride, cos no one looks at that apparently 😜

I guess the point is how long you spend waiting in a queue for a minibus. BMCC I don’t think I’ve ever waited more than a min or 2. At BPW I’ve waited 20 mins before which is a bit frustrating. Felt like they didn’t have enough minibuses running for how many people were there - kids were just parked up in the carpark.

Antur is even more efficient - probably helped by the uplift road being a main road / tarmac’d for the most part. They rant those minibuses so hard up there!

Best tell Strava to delete the miles/km’s ridden feature

And how do Strava measure climbing/descent?🙂
I have no idea as I don't do Strava but I bet it's not in KMs

As above Antor was way more efficient than BPW on all my visits to both.

And how do Strava measure climbing/descent?🙂

I have no idea as I don’t do Strava but I bet it’s not in KMs

I think the key is to look at distance AND elevation if you want to gauge a ride, unless you are being awkward of course 😉

Personally, I couldn't care less how much of either a bike park has, as long as it's enjoyable

A bike park with no elevation would be quite something 😜

A bike park with no elevation would be quite sometime 😜

You know what I mean!!!!! 😁

You've changed your tune @relapsed_Mandalorian from "it's not expensive, that's a tired argument, I'm no BPW fanboi" to:

Yeah, £74 is expensive for the AM & PM pass, but again where else do you have the potential of 9 hours of uplift in the UK?

Nobody is forcing anyone to pay it, some of you act like this business owes you something.

As for Antur, I can find tougher fire roads.

So it IS expensive, "it's a business - pay up loser" (when most businesses start fleecing their customers people who aren't fanboys tend to be miffed by that, rather than defend their right to fleece their customers) and - "ANTUR'S FOR PUSSIES! BWP IS ACE AND HARD AND SO AM I".

So, basically, you're a big BPW fanboi, they can charge what they like and you're happy to pay it and everywhere else is rubbish.

I've no objection to you thinking or feeling that way - it's your life - why not just say that though, instead of hiding it?

ANTUR’S FOR PUSSIES! BWP IS ACE AND HARD AND SO AM I.

I don't get this at all I found Antur much harder on bike and body than BPW.
All be it due to pandemic and moving to Scotland I've not been for a good while.
Maybe BPW has moved to a rockier area or something.

@chevychase - no its only a tiny bit more expensive than the others by hour as the maths demonstrate. the fact the average joe cant do 9 hours of downhilling without crashing your brains out by the end is by the by.

from my experience most people (when its a 6 hour day in midweek) are in the cafe with a beer after 4.5hrs or stop for a decent lunch so i can see teh logic in shorter sessions at the weekend. they probably also have one eye on the amount of crashes and tiredness (one more run syndrome!). when i go on a sunday afternoon i barely see anyone by the end of the session.

its a supply and demand issue - they are always well booked out (and were also well before the change to a split weekend) so why not change the system so more people can enjoy the park? BPW have put alot of effort in (and still do!) to get where they are now. less weekend tickets will just end up with it being like a glastonbury ticket sale.

I`ve never spent that long in a queue at BPW - but maybe ive just been lucky?

it is really the only place of its type with teh range on offer. nowhere else comes close. especially for beginner stuff whaich means i get to go with teh family which is great. which is a huge section of the market. and its convenient.

i would happily ride everything at BPW in an open face, and would do if i was pedalling up. but for uplift, why not just wear your full face? (if you have one) you do get that extra sense of security behind a big lid and goggles!

I`ve never spent that long in a queue at BPW – but maybe ive just been lucky?

Me neither. I last went at the end of March, and I think I waited perhaps 5 minutes max, and one of the drivers had called in sick with Covid symptoms, and they apologised and said they were rustling up a spare driver.  Not saying it doesn't happen, but I've been a few time and never really experienced the long waits that others seem to have had.

Also re. the uplift – as well as being the most expensive it’s also the slowest, you’ll get way more runs in at revs/antur/bmcc et al.

Isn't that a function of the road/track the uplift uses though? Most of Antur's is proper road (faster), and the uplift at Revs in essentially a track that goes straight up the side of the hill (shorter). BPW is neither of those things.

Personally, I don't give a monkeys if average joe can't take a full day's uplift - regardless of what the day is, it's still hellishly expensive for a full day.

I do enjoy the place very much - but it's no longer going to be a weekend destination for me because of the cost and the fact that it's morning or afternoon - I can't just simply book "Saturday at BPW" - and justify the travel down.

I can go to Antur or Dyfi or BMCC and know I'm spending the full day there, then going to the pub 🙂

it’s still hellishly expensive for a full day.

You wanna try Silverstone GP 🙂

now THAT's expensive.

@chevychase sadly I missed the quotation marks. But @VanHalen nails the point.

Again no fanboi, Revs & Dyfi will always be my choice, if anything I'm a Revs Fanboi.

Considering what you get at BPW it's hard for anyone not on crack to think they're fleecing anyone. In terms of facilities they're probably the benchmark.

But like most things within MTB it's the fashion to hate on something without any real reason other than a vague load of bullshit and creating some uber capitalist demon.

Vague reasons?

1) I want to go for the full day. Rock up in the morning, go home when there's nothing left.
2) The cost at BPW has shot through the roof.

They're the main ones - and if they're going to charge a ton (which they are) then there's some other considerations you'd make of any other business when paying through the nose:

1) Queuing.
2) Useability - it's not even easy to select "full day" when booking - you get morning OR afternoon, so they don't even make spending your cash easy.

On being the "benchmark" for facilities - they bleeding well should be for the money people are paying.

If you're going to charge a lot as a business then you're going to get judged with the Big Boy Pants on - not get given an easy time. I'm happy to pay my dues at Penmachno because the trails are volunteer-kept and then I'm happy to hope that the Eagles is open for a pint and some crisps.

When you're charging the lion's share of a hundred quid for a day out then I want driving up in a gold-plated helicopter.

You're not convincing anyone, and clearly the numbers that seem to be at all the bike parks show, as others have said, it's a broad church and the spectrum of cost on the whole is accepted by the riding community. So yeah, they may not be vague but for a great many they're non-issues.

If it wasn't they'd be taking remedial action to address falling sales, but the bike parks are doing well and doubtful that's going to change anytime soon.

OK.  We went, just back now.

Rode Friday on a 6 hour pass, and then pedal pass and pay as you go up lift on Saturday.

With an 11 year old the pay as you go was probably better value, and in the heat we had (stopping after every run to cool down and rehydrate) it definitely was.

But if we were there in September / October then a half day or day pass would be a better bet.

My wife and younger son did almost all the blues, while the 16 year old and I did all the blues and a couple of the red tech trails.  I think I preferred the tech trails, but working up the trail difficulties was challenging in the energy sapping heat.

The standard of riding and the correlation between skill and willingness to just throw yourself down things was variable.  Generally the riding seemed better on Friday and the Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon not so much.

There did seem to be a surprising number of injuries we saw - mostly apparently people either hitting jumps faster than they expected or not carrying the speed to clear things, occasional poor lands bottoming out suspension which then big them.

Also on Saturday afternoon a surprising number of well kitted out riders doing Kermit or the easier blues, some of whom just seemed to want to go as fast as possible on low risk beginner trails - the resulting speed differentials weren’t great.

Overall though, very enjoyable and we’d do it again.

Off to Les Gets for the next trip away though.

(And yes we got the obligatory picture of our Birds at the top of Surfing Bird)

With an 11 year old the pay as you go was probably better value, and in the heat we had (stopping after every run to cool down and rehydrate) it definitely was.

How was the PAYG availability? We are thinking of going with a couple of under 12s which the half-day uplift would be overkill.

We are thinking of doing a bank holiday which may not help....