[Closed] Bike Park Wales - Summer Uplift Hours Reduced

Got to keep the bank account stuffed I guess. There's probably a drivers salary or two saved there.

Still, personally I wouldn't mind a few more mid-week evening uplift events.

I noticed this and wondered how it made sense
I used to stop for lunch in the cafe now I never do so that’s money I’m not spending there
Dunno though they probably know how best to make it profitable

Dunno though they probably know how best to make it profitable

Putting prices up & reducing operating hours seems to be the way..

So there is no loss compared to days when there was a lunch break. I find the place incredibly cheap for what you get so I think it's fair. I want them to be profitable so that they carry on doing such a brilliant job.

I’m with nick though. Just do what they need to do to keep doing it
It’s an amazing facility

Would be nice if kids were half price or you could book half days....

Odd logic this, as the lunches for the drivers are just staggered, there is a reduced number of buses over this time so you will lose out compared to the lunch hour stop of old. I have noticed the last few times Ive been though that the cafe is a lot quieter due to the new staggered lunches, have actually been able to buy food quickly and get a seat, some of the hot food is lovely.

Is there something in place stopping them opening in the evenings? find it out in the summer they dont open much later.

https://www.bikeparkwales.com/night-uplift-friday-16th

They're doing Night Uplifts, so i'm thinking there's nothing in the rules of the land/council etc stopping them,

I'd personally like to see the uplift hours extended to something like 0800-1700 and have the drivers stagger their lunches.

I always stay until the last uplift but it's never full, in fact it seems that after about 2pm it gets noticeably quieter so not surprising they've changed the operating hours. I do wish the cafe would open for longer after the uplift stops so you could grab some decent food before a long drive home.

I always stay until the last uplift but it’s never full, in fact it seems that after about 2pm it gets noticeably quieter so not surprising they’ve changed the operating hours.

I was there just before Christmas and it got pretty quiet after around 1pm, to the point where there were four or five buses parked up at the pickup point with no one waiting.
The whole place is very noticeably quieter than it was a couple of years ago as well, so it's not a huge surprise that the management are looking at ways to reduce costs. As said above, increasing the entrance price and reducing drivers hours are the easiest places to start.

I have no doubt that once the weather improves they'll be doing bumper business again through the summer months. As others have said, longer hours would be nice. Why not run staggered driver shifts so you can cover more hours with the same number of staff.
With condensed hours, riders are less likely to stop for lunch, so they can squeeze as much into a day as before. This is likely to lead to more accidents through fatigue and a less relaxed atmosphere.
Secondly I can't see it doing the local economy any favours. With a later start time, I for one am more likely to drive there on the day now, whereas previously I have driven to Merthyr after work the night before and stayed at a B&B, so I could be there easily for the first lift of the day.

he whole place is very noticeably quieter than it was a couple of years ago as well,

I was about to scoff at that, but you're right!

I haven't try to book for years, it was always booked for months in advance, any time of year and my Wife's shifts only come out a few weeks in advance, but looking now, there's a single space left for Sat, 30 odd for this Sunday and a massive 126 for next Sunday.

Yeah but back then it was 40 max, obviously it's now a lot lot more

It’s still a cracking day out.
I buy a pass but only do 6 or 7 runs. Probably better buying single rides but it’s less faff. Only go a couple of times a year, & I hire their bikes also.
For little over £100 I get a nice carbon bike, lifts back up the hill all day, & a bloody great time.

I do like bpw but,other than during the climb back up to the uplift circle I've never really felt totally done there- the long uplift time makes it feel like a short day anyway.

OTOH I may just not stop for lunch now and enjoy the extra time in bed. Or go to one of the two better uplift venues within a short drive...

On the bright side, Afan is still as fantastic as it ever was! Well the shop and cafe might not be, but the trails certainly are.

Was there a few weeks ago and the uplift times worked ok in winter but definitely think in the summer they need to get a full day organised start at 9am finish at 5 or something. Seems to be turning into more of a money centered operation now.

It's made worse by the first bus not arriving till 10am so by time your loaded and ready it's nearly 10.15 before it moves if not worse.

Gondola lift. That's what they should do. 9-5.

"Seems to be turning into more of a money centered operation"

It's always been like that. You only have to look at the presentations Anna Walters gave when they were selling it to the local community, and it's evident in how they operate - nowhere to shelter from the rain, only their food in the café, no working toilets, dubious liability waivers, "fining" trespassers etc.

You can argue that they need to be hard nosed to run a successful business, but they don't need to be rude about it.

The trails are great but the admin side seems designed by someone who hates bikers.

They've not "stopped" for lunch in the last year which was the first time I went. Afaia they just halved the number of drivers between 12 and 2 as they each took a turn to have an hour break. So basically it's going to be the same but with less actual uplift hours?

Member
“Seems to be turning into more of a money centered operation”

It’s always been like that. You only have to look at the presentations Anna Walters gave when they were selling it to the local community, and it’s evident in how they operate – nowhere to shelter from the rain, only their food in the café, no working toilets, dubious liability waivers, “fining” trespassers etc.

You can argue that they need to be hard nosed to run a successful business, but they don’t need to be rude about it.

The trails are great but the admin side seems designed by someone who hates bikers

What's wrong with making money ? Do you work for free ? Why would they invest in cafe facility for you to bring your own food ? Do you bring your own food when you go to a cafe in town ? Toilets were fine IME, waiver was fine (Are you a lawyer?), trespassers shouldn't trespass (by definition). It's a very well managed operation in my experience and a very customer/rider centric place, never seen any rudeness. If you don't like it, that's fair enough and there is a simple solution ; more for us ;-).

Gondola lift. That’s what they should do. 9-5.

I would go there every damn week if they had a gondola lift!

“Seems to be turning into more of a money centered operation”

Opposed to what? Something that leaks money and shuts up when the cash dries up?

FFS, the place is awesome. Loads of runs for loads of abilities, decent uplift, not prohibitively expensive, decent shop and support for when things break, hell, even the car park isn't a sloppy mud fest of a field.
There is a shelter at the top if you want to get out of the rain, or come down to the bottom and sit in the cafe (or your car like you'd have to at some other centres). There are loos, there is a bike wash, there are all the little things that people require when they have a day out.
Last time I was there the place was dead after lunch, the buses keep going, the riding was good, and everyone had a great day
I'd gladly pay £50 for the convenience of riding well maintained trails, with a good uplift, and all the "soft" bits that come with it for 6 hrs.

ajaj, its such ill-informed comments that remind me why I don't frequent this forum more often. It sounds as though you were present at some of the pre-start talks. Do you really think it is their intention to be rude or are you very easily offended? No shelter from the rain #firstworldproblems (ps they have just invested in the trail head). Only their food in the cafe...seems to be how every business operates in the Alps. You're welcome to eat your food outside if you can stand the lack of shelter. The issue with the toilets is something I am sure they are aware of. Bear in mind that until sinking a couple of new boreholes they were previously operating off a single water well which I'm assuming wasn't as productive as expected. I'd imagine that pumping mains water up that access track would be a few hundred K. Liability waivers, trespassing...im cool. And As for the issue with their opening hours, again I have no idea but I'd happily give them the benefit of the doubt that there is more to it than money making...I don't know, tachos, drivers union...why not get in touch with them to find out rather than spouting on here.

It's always got quiet as the days go on. Attrition, I suspect. I've seen the same at Antur. As bikes, and riders, break they retire for the day.

"ill-informed comments"

Would you care to point out anything ill-informed in my comments please. Or did you just mean "something I disagree with?"

and it’s evident in how they operate – nowhere to shelter from the rain, only their food in the café, no working toilets, dubious liability waivers, “fining” trespassers etc.

Well starting here.... Lets take in Brechfa, Cwmcarn, Afan as being the local competition.... Which of them have shelter ? Which of them allow your own food in the cafe ? Toilets, not seen an issue on the times i've been there, but take your word for it. Fining trespassers, do you mean people out for a stroll or people who have snuck onto the site and not paid for the trails use ? There's a massive difference.

admin side seems designed by someone who hates bikers

I'm struggling with this one myself. I've never found any of the Administration anything but completely polite and helpful. I've had numerous contacts when get a refund/exchange and also when booking for me and my lad, they've always been exceptionally helpful.

Out of interest though, what would you do differently ?

Sure, a Gondola would be brilliant... but the cost would be prohibitive, also the maint and what happens if it breaks down perspective... Sure, some complain about the food... .I've found it perfectly nice when i've been there... The bike shop has tonnes of stuff and helpful staff with spares/knowledge etc.

"Would you care to point out anything ill-informed in my comments please. Or did you just mean “something I disagree with?”

You're right, I disagree with your ill-informed comments.

...and I particularly disagree when you choose to name-check someone prior to making such comments.

Would you care to point out anything ill-informed in my comments please. Or did you just mean “something I disagree with?”

nowhere to shelter from the rain - There's the whole inside of the main building, as well as the shelter at the trailheads (up until they redid the ramps at the top which they have already told everyone they're building a new one)

no working toilets - The toilets were working perfectly every time I've been there. Care to elaborate?

dubious liability waivers - What's dubious about them?

“fining” trespassers - I would have thought that fining trespassers is the done thing

You can argue that they need to be hard nosed to run a successful business, but they don’t need to be rude about it. - How have they been rude?

The trails are great but the admin side seems designed by someone who hates bikers - What evidence do you have that they hate bikers? From what I've seen the vast majority of people who work there are very passionate about bikes and the centre in general

Brechfa is free, so it's unreasonable to have huge expectations of it. Even so you do get a portaloo. I love Brechfa.

Afan has shelter, it's basic but it keeps the rain off. Yes you pay for parking but the site itself is free, so again facilities are a bonus.

The point about BPW is that you're paying to be there. So it's reasonable, in my view, to expect more from the facilities. Others clearly disagree.

The toilets have improved now that they have their improved water supply. But this is one example of the customer service attitude - there are two ways of breaking the news that there's no water "we're really sorry there's no water, the pump failed, here's a small cup you can use just to wash your hands before eating" and "you'll have to drive into town if you want water".

Same with the shop, you can either say "I'm sorry the shop is closed today for staff training" or "you can't go in there". Or even just put a sign up saying "Closed" if you don't want people going in.

And just to reiterate, I'm not disputing their right to make money. Lawfully.

Fining trespassers (railways excluded) is illegal. Disclaiming liability for negligence is also illegal. You don't need to be a lawyer to know that, knowing your liabilities is part of being a company director. Mostly though those sorts of empty corporate threats, to me, reek of the bully. And that gets my back up and puts a cloud on an otherwise enjoyable day. Clearly they don't bother other people, but I bet you'd be upset if you maim yourself due to BPW bring negligent and they refuse to compensate you.

Disclaiming liability for negligence is also illegal. You don’t need to be a lawyer to know that, knowing your liabilities is part of being a company director. Mostly though those sorts of empty corporate threats, to me, reek of the bully. And that gets my back up and puts a cloud on an otherwise enjoyable day. Clearly they don’t bother other people, but I bet you’d be upset if you maim yourself due to BPW bring negligent and they refuse to compensate you

Elaborate... I totally get your logic, but you'll need to clarify a bit...

ajaj why are you comparing BPW to trail centres like Brechfa and Afan? They're really not the same thing. Does Brechfa have over 30 very well looked after downhill trails that can be accessed by several uplift trucks running regularly throughout the day, 7 days a week? Of course BPW costs more.

Clearly ajaj, you don't enjoy BPW as it is.
There's other places to ride - go there.

Clearly they don’t bother other people, but I bet you’d be upset if you maim yourself due to BPW bring negligent and they refuse to compensate you.

Struggling to come up with a scenario in which BPW negligence causes me injury.

Struggling to come up with a scenario in which BPW negligence causes me injury.

If they left something across an open trail & you injured yourself then yes that would be negligent. If you run out of talent, then that's on you.

If they left something across an open trail & you injured yourself then yes that would be negligent.

Ok, agreed that a wheelbarrow on a blind landing, yes that's negligent.

what about a branch that has blown down, or a corner or drop that has eroded or a new feature added since you were last there?

By declaring the park open and the individual trail open have they assumed a liability that wouldn't exist if you magically transported the exact same trail to Coed-y-brenin

"Elaborate… I totally get your logic, but you’ll need to clarify a bit…"

OK, let me try again. If you read the legalese it's designed to protect BPW from riders. That's not a particularly friendly thing to do - when you invite friends round to your house you don't ask them to sign a disclaimer. It's perfectly acceptable commercially, of course. What it's doing is saying that the management of BPW see riders as a potential liability. So pretty much your first contact on arriving is them saying "we're worried you're going to rip us off". That's why I say that they give the impression of hating bikers. The lawyers and underwriters who wrote that see us as a threat. Which we are, from their perspective.

When it contains unenforceable legal threats that just adds to the sense that you're dealing with someone more like a car clamping firm than someone with your interests at heart.

Other bike parks don't consider it necessary, even privately run ones. So what makes BPW special, is it because they genuinely do intend to leave you in the lurch if something bad happens or just because they've got particularly jumpy lawyers? The only other place I know that asks for a disclaimer is Antur, but theirs is less scary.

"why are you comparing BPW to trail centres like Brechfa and Afan"

Because someone else in the thread asked. I could also compare to Morzine or Tignes where you get so much more for so much less, and still no aggressive lawyers. Yes they're state subsidised, but so is BPW.

"you don’t enjoy BPW as it is"

I do enjoy it, but the enjoyment is tainted. Unnecessarily in my view.

but the enjoyment is tainted. Unnecessarily in my view.

i think that says more about you than BPW.

OK, let me try again. If you read the legalese it’s designed to protect BPW from riders. That’s not a particularly friendly thing to do – when you invite friends round to your house you don’t ask them to sign a disclaimer. It’s perfectly acceptable commercially, of course. What it’s doing is saying that the management of BPW see riders as a potential liability. So pretty much your first contact on arriving is them saying “we’re worried you’re going to rip us off”. That’s why I say that they give the impression of hating bikers. The lawyers and underwriters who wrote that see us as a threat. Which we are, from their perspective.

That's how it has to be these days in a society of litigation. We see it LOTS in trackdays. Person crashes and then tries to sue the Trackday organiser or indeed the other rider. One guy tried to sue because he went on the grass and crashed, no-one had apparently told him wet grass was slippery.
So you basically have to sign your rights away for 'accidents' which i completely understand, as stated, if i crash because BPW put a 20' gap jump on a Blue, that's their fault... If i crash because i can't jump a 20' gap on a black, that's 100% on me.
That's what BPW are covering themselves against, unncessary litigation. Their trails are sanctioned and signed off as 'fit for purpose' within the grading systems they use, that will be signed, sealed and agreed somewhere, as long as BPW follow this, they're OK.

But if they run you over with the mini-bus, then you could sue them 🙂

so here's their conditions....

ACCEPTANCE OF RISK

YOU ARE ABOUT TO TAKE PART IN A HIGH RISK ACTIVITY. YOU WILL MINIMISE THIS RISK BY FOLLOWING THE SAFETY RULES AND ADVICE IN THE MOUNTAIN BIKERS RESPONSIBILITY CODE AND THE MOUNTAIN BIKE AND EQUIPMENT CHECKLIST. IF YOU DON’T FOLLOW THE SAFETY RULES AND ADVICE YOU INCREASE THE LIKLEHOOD OF A SERIOUS ACCIDENT WHICH COULD BE FATAL.

I understand that Mountain Biking is dangerous and includes substantial obstacles, which can be physically testing. I accept that there is a risk of injury and death when undertaking such activities.
I understand that I must wear a helmet at all times and that a full face helmet, eye protection, body armour and gloves are highly recommended.
I agree that I will follow the Mountain Bikers Responsibility Code at all times
I agree to check my bike and equipment as per the Mountain Bike and Equipment Checklist at the start of the day, before each run and after any crash.
In the unlikely event of an accident, or loss or damage to my personal effects, I acknowledge that the company, its sponsors and any associated parties will not be liable for any direct or indirect loss, damage or injury arising from or in connection with the Activities (except for death or Personal Injury caused by the Company’s negligence).
I certify that to the best of my knowledge I do not have a medical condition which might have the effect of making it more likely that I be involved in an incident which could result in injury to myself or to others.

SAFETY BRIEFING

It is important that everyone who uses BikePark Wales takes note of the following Health and Safety advice:

Mountain Biking, like any extreme sport, is dangerous and includes substantial obstacles, which can be physically testing. There is a risk of injury and death when undertaking such activities.
Trails are graded according to ability, ensure that you are competent to ride each trail. If in doubt start on the easier trails and work your way up.
Always perform a recce ride of any trails you intend to ride; trails change with weather conditions and from continual trail amendments and improvements, do not assume they will always be exactly the same each time you visit.
Follow the Mountain Bikers Responsibility Code
Children aged 16 and under need to be supervised by a parent or guardian (over 18 years of age) at ALL times
You must ALWAYS wear a helmet. We also strongly advise you wear a full face helmet, eye protection, gloves and body armour. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A HELMET YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO RIDE IN THE PARK OR USE THE UPLIFT SERVICE.
Read and adhere to all advice signs while using the trails.
It is your responsibility to ensure your equipment is fit for purpose
MOUNTAIN BIKE AND EQUIPMENT CHECKLIST

The trails at BikePark Wales are rough, challenging and demanding on both bike and body.

We recommend the use of appropriately sized, modern, long-travel, full suspension bikes with good quality hydraulic disk brakes in the park.

Before riding always inspect your equipment or have it checked by a qualified bike mechanic.

Helmets are mandatory, ensure that your helmet is in good shape and properly adjusted; we highly recommend the use of full face protection helmets. Gloves, eye protection and body armour are also highly recommended.
Inspect bike frame for cracks, damaged or dented areas.
Ensure you have sufficient brake pads to stop your bike while descending; two working brakes are mandatory.
Front and rear axles (quick release or bolt through type) should be tight.
Headset and stem must be secure with no looseness or play.
Check that your tyres are in good condition, with plenty of tread and no cuts or abrasions in the sidewall and that rims show no cracks or signs of weakness and all spokes are tight and intact.
Handlebar and handlebar grips must be tight and unable to spin.
Seat and seatpost need to be fastened securely.
Suspension should be in good working order with no leaks or loose parts.

I'm not seeing an issue.

"That’s how it has to be"

It doesn't have to be elsewhere.

"I’m not seeing an issue."

You haven't quoted everything.

I thought i had.... what did i miss then ? Lets not be so cryptic, what EXACTLY is the bit you have an issue with ?

Jamieson sued, arguing the resort had not properly informed him of the risks of mountain biking when he signed the waiver for his season pass and that he had "no idea" that it was possible for him to go over his handle bars and suffer a spinal cord injury.

But in their response Whistler noted that Jamieson had worked as both volunteer trail builder and patroller at the bike park for three seasons and had already completed two years training to be a medical doctor at UBC prior to the accident.

from https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/whistler-lawsuit-1.4167886

This is why we have to do this stuff

Jamieson sounds like a *, an understandably desperate *, but still a ****

So pretty much your first contact on arriving is them saying “we’re worried you’re going to rip us off”. That’s why I say that they give the impression of hating bikers

It's their way of saying if you're a weirdo who has unrealistic expectations despite the token fees and goes to application meetings and wants to bring his own food yet use our facilities for paying eaters and is seeing illegal clauses that don't exist and can't understand we don't want people to use the trails without paying and that we don't want to be sued by compensation experts, then don't come to BPW. I fully support them in doing that.

^that 🙂

So pretty much your first contact on arriving is them saying “we’re worried you’re going to rip us off”. That’s why I say that they give the impression of hating bikers

Give over. Their operation is based entirely around mountainbikers. Without mountainbikers being involved at pretty much every level there's no way they'd be able to provide what they do in a way that appeals to you.

There's also no way they could provide what they do if they had no protection against unfortunate/opportunistic people who wanted to sue because no one told them mountain biking is dangerous.

Without spelling it out, without telling riders to read, and sign to confirm that you've read what to expect and how to behave, there's a risk that the whole place goes under, mountain bikers lose their jobs and mountain bikers can't ride there anymore.

It's really basic business foundation stuff and they're doing it, just the same as they put together jumps and berms so they work and continue to work.

ajaj mate, as am aside to all of the above, I'll be honest that my initial response was prompted by a number of unproductive, lazy comments. I don't envy the guys behind BPW - they're committed riders and passionate about what they do. They're human and I imagine they struggle to see past the snidey comments which suggest a lack of understanding about what it takes to run a multimillion pound venture which employs 50 odd people. I suppose that's the beauty of the Internet, empowering people to pass comment. Rather than digging yourself a deeper hole why not put your energy into engaging with them. Im sure they'll have a dig day coming up soon.

I didnt even know about the food ban, last time I was there we bought a load of chips and drinks from the cafe then ate our own sandwiches at the same time. Nobody said anything and we weren't banned from the bus after dinner.

Not eating your own food in someone else’s cafe is very very standard across the whole country, why people are thinking it’s weird at BPW I don’t know - have you never been out for dinner?

That warning/disclaimer reads really well and is quite nice I thought. Remember there are probably thousands of people who’s first go at a trail centre might be BPW. “Bike Park? sounds like fun!” they might be thinking, having only ridden a £200 Carrara before. The warnings are to those sorts of people who make up the vast majority of MTB riders in this country. People riding £1000+ MTBs, easpecially downhill and jump capable bikes, are a very small minority.

Not being able to eat your own food in the cafe isn't a problem. There not being anywhere to get out of the rain to eat your own food is a problem. You can only eat in your car if you drove there.
The weather can be particularly filthy round there and when you are soaking wet and tired it is frankly miserable trying to eat your lunch outside in the pouring rain.
Obviously if you are made of money you can just use the cafe.
I appreciate that many other trail centres don't provide any covered shelters but they also don't charge an entrance fee.

Obviously if you are made of money you can just use the cafe.

The main meals are only £7-8, really well priced for a hot main meal IMO

Eat sandwiches on the bus, get more runs in to compensate for the earlier closing time.

Eat sandwiches on the bus, get more runs in to compensate for the earlier closing time.

Was just about to post something similar. It's a short day (even before the lastest change) so having a sit down meal is just wasting a good chunk of it (and who wants a big meal mid-ride anyway?)

(and who wants a big meal mid-ride anyway?)

I don't I just want somewhere dry to take a 20 min break and eat my sandwiches. When the weather is properly wet the bus is quite an unpleasant environment. I don't want to eat on there.

The main meals are only £7-8, really well priced for a hot main meal IMO

That's 40 odd pounds for a family of five. Not everyone is a committed stormtrooper and capable of a full day of uplifts without a break. If you market your business as family friendly then you need to provide appropriate facilities.

They have. If you can't afford £40 to feed 5 then it's probably not the place for you. Stay at home and avoid all the other costs. I don't want them to charge everyone more to make free facilities for tight gits who think you have to be wealthy to buy a £8 burger. But I am sure this is a wind up timid.

That’s 40 odd pounds for a family of five.

if you've taken the whole family on the uplift, thats ~£200. i don't think a crappy burger is going to break the bank...

Also lol at comparing BPW to a place like Morzine or Tignes. Those places are huge resorts in the Alps where they're serviced year round, ski in winter and bikes and hiking in summer, with multiple hotels, activity companies, infrastructure that's been there for decades.

You cannot in good faith compare them to BPW which is a modest, completely new park built with the help of EU funding in a relatively neglected part of the country.

I really don't understand why it is so controversial to want a sheltered seating area?

Not everyone buys a day's uplift pass.

Not everyone has £250 to spare for a day out.

Try and see things from other people's point of view.

Do they actually stop you eating your own food in there? pretty sure I have on occasion, maybe oblivious to whatever signs they have... admittedly I wouldn't take the mick, someone else in the group will have purchased something, and I'd have got a drink or two so maybe they don't care if you spend a bit. Other times I've just sat in the car as I don't want to waste time going back and forth.

It's an awesome place though, only thing that annoys me with the change is that I'll get less riding time in which is a shame, I'm on the first and last bus every time when we go - might have to plan riding back up from halfway on the last run now to push it out to 4:30/5ish. It definitely gets quieter on the last few buses.

I really don’t understand why it is so controversial to want a sheltered seating area?

Not everyone buys a day’s uplift pass.

Not everyone has £250 to spare for a day out.

Try and see things from other people’s point of view.

Fair enough but at the outset of the project I imagine that a sheltered picnic area was pretty far down the wish list of future punters who expected world class, well maintained trails, quality, well maintained hire bikes, efficient, well maintained uplifts etc etc. I'm sure they'll listen to people who wish for a gazebo. After that they can bow down to calls for a smoking shelter. Sorry to be facetious but I can't believe this thread has boiled down to criticism over a lack of shelter at an outdoor facility.

maybe they just assumed everyone would sit in their T5's?

but it has a shelter.. a massive building with a wood burner and sofa, a cafe, and a bike shop...nobodies gonna stop you using it. And another shelter at the top. Can't see the need for any more shelters! The rest of the time just get riding!

I really don’t understand why it is so controversial to want a sheltered seating area?

Not everyone buys a day’s uplift pass.

Not everyone has £250 to spare for a day out.

Try and see things from other people’s point of view

Try and see things from other people's point of view too then : many think that a hot dish for £8 is impossibly cheap and don't want to subsidise any non riding facilities that would be offered FOC to tight gits.

Already bought myself a syringe driver to allow me pump glucose directly into my veins and thus skip eating at all and get in the most runs ever!

And now there is no mandatory lunch break with everyone trying to cram in to said shelter, there should be enough room of everyone to have a break.
If they did want to put another shelter in, my vote is for over the queue for the buses. Not needed though, as I will have anticipated the 3 activities of queuing, busing, and riding; along with the weather; when deciding what to wear that day.

OK, let me try again. If you read the legalese it’s designed to protect BPW from riders. That’s not a particularly friendly thing to do – when you invite friends round to your house you don’t ask them to sign a disclaimer. It’s perfectly acceptable commercially, of course. What it’s doing is saying that the management of BPW see riders as a potential liability. So pretty much your first contact on arriving is them saying “we’re worried you’re going to rip us off”. That’s why I say that they give the impression of hating bikers. The lawyers and underwriters who wrote that see us as a threat. Which we are, from their perspective.

When it contains unenforceable legal threats that just adds to the sense that you’re dealing with someone more like a car clamping firm than someone with your interests at heart.

Can you please give some specifics? You're saying things, but not giving any detail?

From the previous BPW thread three weeks ago:

trisysjoint Subscriber

We stayed here: http://tunnelcottages.co.uk/
Literally 1.5 miles from the start of all of the BPW runs…..get your first run down for free then pay at the desk when you get there for the rest of the day:-)

From the BPW website:

Any rider caught tresspassing on the trails without a valid pass will be fined on the spot, this will be enforced by our marshalls.

So BPW don't want trisysjoint in their park. And they want to demand money on the spot. There's a name for that - it's called "robbery" and most people are told that it's wrong by their parents.

Yawn

Literally 1.5 miles from the start of all of the BPW runs…..get your first run down for free then pay at the desk when you get there for the rest of the day:-)

I can't see where they advertise that on the Tunnel Cottages website?

From their website -

BikePark Wales is a pay to ride venue and revenues from entry fees are used to fund trail maintainance and building new trails. Please respect this and buy your trail pass at reception upon arrival. Anyone found riding on site without a valid pass will receive a £50 spot fine.

Is that much different for being fined on train for not travelling with a ticket? Seems fair enough to me.

"Is that much different for being fined on train for not travelling with a ticket? Seems fair enough to me."

Yes, because there's specific legislation that allows it for trains (Railways Act 1889). It might seem fair. It might even be fair. But it isn't legal, and some of us believe in rule of law.

As an aside I've seen that the people on the ground, being nice sensible biker types, aren't this draconian and take a relaxed, polite attitude if they encounter someone with a pass. It's just whoever writes the rules.

It just sounds like your being deliberately obtuse to be honest.

So BPW don’t want trisysjoint in their park. And they want to demand money on the spot. There’s a name for that – it’s called “robbery” and most people are told that it’s wrong by their parents.

Call the police. And never visit BPW ever again please Mr Meldrew.

Stop engaging with Ajaj. He’s quite clearly the sort of mentalist who writes letters to councils about the thickness of the gap between double yellow lines not being standard and therefore not enforceable.

Wow - the loon fringe is out in force on this thread.

You'd have have to be crazy to run a business of this kind and not have some sort of disclaimer to protect you from litigation. If you think you can't why don't you just set up your own little bike park, let it be a free for all and see how well you get on?

Fining people riding on the trail without a pass is probably a result of people taking the piss. It's a business FFS, and they have to have some mechanism to deter people from just turning up and riding without paying.

The food is decent for the money. If you don't like it you can sit in your car. They have a limited footprint and really can't be expected to accommodate people who aren't paying for food.

Also - no one is forcing you to ride there.

JP

Like the sound of that accomodation. Surely if you’d pre booked uplift and showed them the printout voucher they’d be sensible ?

Wow, you pretty much have to be dertirmined to be offended if boggo T&Cs (written by lawyers, no doubt) are ruining your day.