[Closed] Bike Park Wales - how does it compare

I know a lot of ‘wheels on the ground’ riders that really enjoy bpw. You’ll be fine

The blues aren't tough. No compulsory air at all. A few little kickers and tables you can jump if you want but all rollable. Same for the easy reds. Some drops you can jump or roll. Harder reds and blacks and you need to be comfortable clearing the drops. If you don't fancy that the blues and easier reds are plenty to keep you busy for the day, especially if you mix and match top and bottom halves

The only risk with the blues is the speed you can arrive carrying at situations. You'll be fine.

Cool - thanks for that. Its not that I want to keep my wheels on the gound, its just that they don't seem keen to leave it! But my colleague was suggesting it wasn't really rollable.

The trip is back on and I can start getting excited!

I don’t like to be rude but your colleague is a moron. Most DHers I know consider BPW somewhat tame. And the blues are designed to be rideable by (competent) kids on 20” wheels - loads of flow, no air required.

BPW is a trail centre with uplifts. There's some rough stuff and biggish jumps but it's easily avoidable. I've spent most of my riding life riding DH but I find the easy stuff at BPW more enjoyable. They're really flowy and fun. The black stuff is just loads of jagged rocks.

go to Afan instead on our Welsh weekend?

Having done both recently if you are happy at Afan then there is plenty you will love at BPW. No idea what your mate is on about.

Stiniog is more hard core DH than BPW, however there's enough stuff at BPW to "go big" and certainly break yourself, but there's also tonnes of stuff for everyone else. Reds and blues you can mostly stay rubber down (though even on the blues the rollers like to kick you in the air 😀 ).

Not been in ages and things have been tweaked and more trails added. Plenty for everyone really.

The grading is pretty good and they now mark plus (+) trails which are more likely to have features.

https://www.bikeparkwales.com/trails

Only thing is qualifiers which can be a bit more serious than some of the stuff on the actual trail or at least the features on the trail aren't necessarily mandatory but the qualifier is.

"If you do not like the look of the qualifier (or choose to push around it) you will not be competent to ride the rest of the trail."

I call balls to that, a little. Qualifier on both a red and black put me off (ladder drop on a red, gap jump on a black) and yet I've done the trails themselves many times with no problem (from before the qualifiers were introduced). Though understandably it's to reduce the numpties doing them. It's just I can do a lot of stuff but big drops and gaps just aren't my thing, and these particular trails have neither.

I've only been to BPW 4 or 5 times over the last couple of years, the most recently maybe 6 weeks ago.

Previously, I've found the blues and reds pretty similar, but on the last visit it was clear that the reds have been re-worked and there's a clear and definite step up above the blues now, notably with small mandatory drops and bigger lips on the 'whoops'.

They've also re-worked a few of the qualifiers, which IMO are much more representative of the trails. I'd say most of afan is above BPW blues, but only a few sections are up to BPW red.

I call balls to that, a little. Qualifier on both a red and black put me off (ladder drop on a red, gap jump on a black) and yet I’ve done the trails themselves many times with no problem

I agree. There’s one particular qualifier on a red that I’ve never done, but there’s nothing else on that trail anywhere as severe.

Aye, BPW's qualifiers are terrible. There's no other feature on vicious valley that's anything like its qualifer, and I see they've replaced Dai Hard's old totally stupid nonrepresentative quali with another totally stupid nonrepresentative quali.

Other'n that, as above, it's a trailcentre with a bus. Some of the trails do get pretty full on especially the jump lines but you won't stumble into any sort of trouble.

One thing is, recently their quality of trail design/grading has gone down the toilet, speaking as a trailbuilder myself, frinstance they've added 3 much larger jumps into the blue line popti ping that are really out of keeping with the others which otherwise progress beautifully and encourage you to push the boat out... And the new "Blend" trails are all over the place. They're well constructed but have poor sighting and massive variation in difficulty and style that pretty much amounts to ambushes, iy'll make them much more troublesome for less confident riders. I can deal with it and enjoyed them, but then I'm pretty decent, if you're exploring and go from say Hot Stepper and thinking "yeah I could just about deal with that" to Roots Maneouvres or ACDC you could easily get caught out, or if you wander into an area where your skills are a bit lacking. Basically they're less trustworthy.

But the stuff that's older than this year doesn't have that problem and by and large is better anyway and there's more than enough of it.

The ‘ladder drop’ on Vicious Valley is more an optical illusion than hard, you can roll off it at walking pace if you want, but it’s near totally blind, there’s a drop that’s 4x the size into Bonneyvile further down.

As above though BPW have been pushing the progression thing a lot recently and the red have generally gotten harder, even ‘Locomotion’ which is a tiny little red run in the middle of a string of blues which used to be a easy step-up to red has been rebuilt and certainly harder to ride blind now, and you will need to know how to jump to ride it.

The blues are great though.

I would say all the blue and reds, with the exception of the Bonneville qualifier and Insufficient Funds are rollable. Deep Navigation (black) also has no airborne features. Enjoy!

Why is "deep navigation" black exactly? Never figured that one out

“Why is “deep navigation” black exactly? Never figured that one out”

It is a little bit rocky - quite interesting if you go through the tunnel at full speed and into it without slowing down!

I would say all the blue and reds, with the exception of the Bonneville qualifier and Insufficient Funds are rollable.

Talking about blind features on red tracks...Insufficient Funds. I rode it when it was totally rollable. Next time I rode it there were drops on it that were easy enough to ride but completely out of character and seemingly designed to make a wheels on the ground rider like me panic.

(Despite my comments I thoroughly enjoy BPW.)

It is a little bit rocky

'Xacly, a bit rocky is all  insufficient funds is red by comparison and longer. Any one comes there at that point under the tunnel sees the red and thinks Ill go that way... Is in for a surprise. Always seemed arse about face to me

Deep navigation is i think a black because it includes lines, which can, if poorly ridden, have you over the bars and onto your face!    Blues and reds in general are designed so that you really have to mess up big time to actually come off the bike, ie they don't include awkward 'wheel grabbers' or drops that lead into tight bends, or other features (ie each feature can be ridden sequentially)

If you’ve done trails like Afan and are comfortable with tech then you will be fine.

Your mate is over egging it.

Blues are all rollable and you can go as fast or slow as you like., that’s the point of blus, all is rollable.

The reds are more involving but don’t get caught up in the ‘qualifiers ‘ at the beginning of each trail. Walk the qualifiers if not confident and enjoy the rest of the trail. They are far worse than you will encounter on the trail.

The only red I would say don’t do bind if not confident is Insufficient Funds.

It really was the most grin inducing trail I have done for a long time.Wheels off the ground but for intermediate riders like myself.

The ‘ladder drop’ on Vicious Valley is more an optical illusion than hard, you can roll off it at walking pace if you want, but it’s near totally blind, there’s a drop that’s 4x the size into Bonneyvile further down.

I've seen a few roll off the ladder and OTB 😀 . Though maybe with bigger wheels it's less of an issue. The blind bit is one of my big problems. The drop size is fine for me, but my brain keeps saying no even when I'm practically on top of it. I'm the same with a lot of jumps and drops where I just can't see the landing (I have an OCD thing going on that's bad enough where I don't believe my eyes at times and keep having to visually check stuff, so trusting stuff I can't see is difficult, even if I know what's there).

Bonneyvile drop, last time I was there was never an issue. As I say, been a while since there so not sure it's changed. I remember a rock drop into it before the steep berm stuff (if I'm remembering the trail right) and didn't think it was much of a problem. Though don't recall anything "4x the size" of VV quali.

@deadkenny. When was the last time you saw the VV qualifier? They’ve filled under it now so you’re wheel can’t go backwards no matter how slow you go. If you stand to the side of it then it looks big but from the top it actually looks ok and is rollable which is handy as there’s bugger all space to build up speed

There’s a drop off on one of the reds, can’t remember which one, that’s tricky because it drops into a turn & is a bit loose. It’s after a fire road crossing...I think it’s the red option after the little uphill section on the blue that finishes behind the Cafe...

But all the (Red) drops seem to have a slope on the exit so are rollable at practically walking pace.

@deadkenny. When was the last time you saw the VV qualifier?

A few years back now. Not been since the newer trails were done and after my one return following breaking my fingers there, which stupidly was on Wibbly Wobbly "drop" (roll) 😂.

said it was very hard core, with lots of compulsory air etc, and a good chance of injuring yourself

I wouldn’t listen to twits like that. Just go and have fun. It’s brilliant.

You don’t need full face or even pads to ride the reds & blues.

The descent line at stainburn is comparable to the harder (technical) reds at BPW though a little shorter and less steep. If you can roll the boulder drop (even more so if you rode Aldos, RIP) then you won't think twice about the reds at BPW, as even the ones with drops and jumps on the whole just need a little braking to be rollable.

TL:DR your colleague is talking shit

The Bonneyville qualifier used to be rollable but it seems to have been dug out massively at some point before July last year. Like others I'm not sure why because there's nothing else similar and nothing else remotely as hard on the rest of that trail. Also turning an existing feature from rollable to not rollable seems like a terrible idea, someone who comes back to it without knowing of the change could be in for an unpleasant surprise.

You don’t need full face or even pads to ride the reds & blues.

True but wear them if you have them.  I didn't see many soft spots to crash

The Bonneyville qualifier used to be rollable but it seems to have been dug out massively at some point before July last year.

When I was last there I think someone I was with thought that and rolled it only to go ove the bars and do some serious damage to his neck and back.

I don’t like to be rude but your colleague is a moron

Exactly my thoughts too. I would question any of his future riding wisdom

Bonneyville drop - I did an abort and circle round for another go last weekend. someone there claimed going hard left was rollable (basically a double step) but he didn't demonstrate. You wont see it until you're on it though.

I'm a XC rider/poor racer and have only been to BPW twice. Last time I did all the blues and most of the reds happily. the VV drop was the hardest thing I did all day. Took myself and a mate (both on full suss) 10 minutes to psych ourselves up to do it, it was quiet. so 4 or 5 ride up to he edge and slam the brakes on!... He's more competent than me!... once we did it we were both like wtf was that all about. Its 100% in the head. you can roll off it, just keep pedals level. There is nothing on VV like it, or if there is, I hit it with so much speed I didn't notice!

I had more issues with coming into berms too fast on the blues, or the lips on the Tables on Popity P by carrying too much speed!

In fact I think my biggest issue was the ride down from the centre to the bottom of the uplift with a lip that completely caught me unawares... right where the photographer sits... nearly went OTB.. that's not even graded!!!

I wondered about the left hand line for the Bonneyville qualifier but it seemed pretty awkward.

I was frustrated by the new Blend trails that I rode last week. They didn't seem to blend big jumps (which I'm not interested in) with more technical features (which I do like), rather just throwing them together at random and with little coherency.

One thing is, recently their quality of trail design/grading has gone down the toilet, speaking as a trailbuilder myself, frinstance they’ve added 3 much larger jumps into the blue line popti ping that are really out of keeping with the others which otherwise progress beautifully and encourage you to push the boat out

I rode popti ping when it was first built and found the first part of the jumps matched the speed, but the jumps towards the ends got smaller and everyone I was with overshot them massively. Hopefully it is these 3 which have been made bigger! Just goes to show even with this one line you cant satisfy everyone!

I agree that the reds last time I went were just more rocks and bumps as opposed to actual features, I actually found some of the blacks nicer as they were smoother even though they had bigger features!

Has anyone been since they’ve shut Melted Welly? Is it shut all the way or can you still get to Off Grid and Forest Bump? I’ve only ever ridden them when muddy so wouldn’t mind another go this weekend.

Melted Welly, off Grid and Fforest Bump were all fully open last week. Just all the runs by Terry's Belly that were shut

Terrys Belly etc. are open now according to the website. It lists Melted Welly (and hard shoulder but that’s been shut for ages) but doesn’t list off grid and forest bump as shut so I guess they must have shut it further down.

I've been to BPW a few times & went to Antur for the first time this weekend.

I would say your mate is not a very competent rider. The Blue at Antur is much closer to the reds at BPW. The reds at Antur I would not have been happy riding without a full face, the Reds at BPW I'm happy enough in my normal helmet.

The one thing is BPW it takes much longer to get from the top to bottom than it did at Antur, the trails at BPW are much more flowy & I'm off my brakes way more at BPW.

So in conclusion -  if you are happy at Antur you'll be more than fine BPW

The main thing comparing them is Antur's busses are way better organised. Whatever speed you go down there always seems to be a bus there, no big queue, get on and back to the top. Very efficient.

Whatever speed you go down there always seems to be a bus there, no big queue, get on and back to the top.

Antur is a lot smaller, there's less variation in the run length. the bus drops of 16 people, whether you are pinning it on a DH bike or mincing the blue as its your first time, its only a minute or so difference and there will be a bus with 16 slots at the bottom. Have a mechanical and get overtaken by someone from the other bus, and you wont see your mates until lunch.

BPW has a natural halfway regroup point at the fire road, and the edge runs (at either side of the map) take about twice as long as going down the middle. Plus there's 12 busloads of people all overlapping.

2 weekends ago, due to a variety of unfortunate circumstances, the busses seemed to come in 4s. if you got to the bottom and the queue was nearly to the end of the timber fence, it meant there was a bus about to arrive and you would get on. if there was hardly anyone there, you just missed it and would have a wait.

Bonneyville drop – I did an abort and circle round for another go last weekend. someone there claimed going hard left was rollable (basically a double step) but he didn’t demonstrate. You wont see it until you’re on it though.

Hard left used to be the chicken line, but since they changed it, it's not really viable, not for me anyway - I mean anything is doable if you have the skill - Gruff the on-site Coach posted a video of him riding off it in a rolling stoppie fashion, but he's very, very good and practically lives there.

Tellingly when I took the drops course there you start on Wibbly Wobbly (Red) which is just a line of drops of different sizes and types, perfect for the job - after a few hours of that we were happily(iish) riding the qualifiers on Cole not Dole and Pork Belly (both black) they're fairly straight and sighted, but one (I forget which) is two drops in quick succession. After that we rode up the fire road for the final run and got to Bonneyville - we all took a look at the drop and thought, "nah" and went down Surfing Bird, which 99% of riders do these days, it only seems to be the lads on full DH bikes heading for Half Cut and Rock and Roll who ride it, which is a shame Bonneville is a nice trail.

I was there at the weekend, the new reds are quite tricky to say the least, especially AC/DC.  I would certainly have a gentle ride down them first to scope them out, especially if like me you don't like hitting big ramps blind, and can't see the landing.

As for the uplift, it had improved hugely IMHO, didn't wait once except for a slight delay after the lunchtime swapover.

Last time I was down there, I went off the quali of  Boneville just fine (and I'm a big scardy pants). It's really not at all bad. Needs a bit of "Go" is all.

Yeah, it definitely looks worse than it is from the top. Personally I think Surfin Bird next door is the better trail though.

I wouldn't roll the blind drop on Bonneville. Bonneville, Insufficient Funds, Dai Hard and Escort were my favourite trails but not ideal for wheels on the ground riders. Insufficient Funds seems pegged right at red+ IMO.

The qualifier drop off for Vicious Valley is one of the easier ones with a graded landing. I started to really feel the landings (120mm full sus) on Dai Hard (used to be a gap now a drop) and Cole Not Dole qualifiers and to a lesser extent Bonneville.

What's all this talk of DH rigs? There's about 2 pro lines (your average rider won't touch), an old DH line, maybe one of the blacks, where it would be an advantage but that's about it.

To the OP you will be fine on the blues and some of the non + reds (not ridden the brand new trails yet). There are a few tricky drops on the reds (Bonneville as mentioned) that require some pop/reasonable roll in speed to land smoothly without fuss! Just don't take on things you can't handle!

What’s all this talk of DH rigs? There’s about 2 pro lines (your average rider won’t touch), an old DH line, maybe one of the blacks, where it would be an advantage but that’s about it.

But if your bike choice is a 100mm xc hardtail, or downhill rig, which bike would you rather ride there?

@ PrinceJohn - I ride a trail bike at BPW like most do. The trails were designed with trail bikes in mind not DH rigs or XC hardtails.

So MsJ has very kindly booked me an uplift day at Bike Park Wales in the summer, and I was rather looking forward to going. But a colleague at work, who’s rather more DH orientated than me said it was very hard core, with lots of compulsory air etc, and a good chance of injuring yourself. Which has rather put a downer on it!
I went to Antur Stiniog a couple of years ago, and was happy on the blue, and by the end of the day could manage most of the reds with care. But I’m not great at jumps, my wheels seem to want to stay on the ground. I’d say when it comes to trail centres I’m a solid red run kind of rider. My nearest trail is Stainburn and I’m happy on the red and descent line, but the black was beyond me.

As others have said, your mate is clueless - if you can cope with the reds at Antur you can cope with BPW reds, except for perhaps "Insufficient Funds" - but it's kind of hard to case the drops and the jumps are totally rollable.