[Closed] Bike Park Wales - Great place but beware of vouchers not being honoured

Did they specify how long the gift vouchers last ?

Sounds unfortunate but fair, the voucher has a date on it, doesn't matter you took a load of other people.

They're within their rights but as customer service goes it's pretty crap. I wouldn't be too impressed either. Pure business at BPW

Yes they are within their rights. 6% of gift vouchers are not redeemed [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-wasted-as-people-dont-spend-gift-vouchers ]source[/url]

OR is the wrong word.
They are both within their rights AND showing poor PR

Is a bit miserable of them, but you say you did email prior to arrival and get a "sorry, no" so I'd not have assumed the answer would be different on the day.
Did you get in touch prior to the voucher running out to explain? A few years ago we bought my wife's nan a spa day voucher. We discovered about 2 days befor it expired that she had forgotten about it so we called the spa & they extended the date by a month so we could use it. I'm not so sure they would have gone for what I assume was 9 months though. (Original purchase Feb '15, assume 12 months validity so expiry Feb '16.) I'd have sold it on during that time myself...

So we've to beware that something that you shouldn't expect to happen..... doesn't happen?

It's the problem with gift vouchers having time to redeem them before they expire.

There is no legitimate reason a gift voucher should have an expiry date. It's just a con to boost pofits. If you use the 6% not redemmed above as an assumption and assume BPW has a 20% profit margin (probably less in fact) then unredeemed vouchers are as profitable as an increase of 30% (6%/20%) in rider numbers as it goes straight to the bottom line. This plus they have the money in advance.

Misleading topic title is misleading.. 😕

Clearly states on their website..

Vouchers are valid for 12 months from date of purchase.

Does seem a bit arbitrary and unfriendly, and I'd hope for a bit of flexibility and discretion if the OP had contacted them within the valid period and explained he was injured. Might be a bit too much to expect this far after the fact, though.

They are within their rights, but it's totally rubbish. I really don't understand gift vouchers. The company has the money in the bank, and if the voucher is per amount rather than service then the company won't lose anything if it's redeemed over a long period of time. Having a time limit, especially one which is so short just appears to be robbing the person of that money. Especially as a customer you gain nothing by purchasing a voucher.

Gift vouchers are a complete rip off of the consumer. You'd be better putting the cash in an envelope and a print out of what it's intended for with a note saying - spend on this!

There is no legitimate reason a gift voucher should have an expiry date.

Why would you have an expiry date on a voucher?

It can be a bit hit and miss there- I turned up a day early for a booking once, and they happily swapped it over, despite being fully booked, another time I hurt myself the day before and I had to write the booking off.

As I think another poster alluded to, most companies are pretty good at extending voucher deadlines especially if there are extenuating circumstances.
I booked one of those cheesy hot air balloon ride things when me and the current Mrs Deviant got together, due to poor weather it kept getting called off on the morning of the day booked, this happened several times and the deadline for using the voucher was looming, I called the company office and explained the situation....result: no problem and he put another 12 months on it for us....most companies are quite reasonable if you give them a heads up....although your post has made me jittery as I've been dropping hints all year about a BPW voucher for Christmas, I'll have to scrutinise the expiry date if I get one!

I had a similar incident with them. Booked some coaching sessions but the wife couldn't make it on the day we'd booked so I looked into moving it (with plenty of notice). They were very slow and vague in their responses. Made it impossible to book anything else and we had to give up and write the money off.

I'm with jamba in this one - clearly they're within their rights not to honour the voucher, and it's what their terms say, but it's not a particularly reasonable condition to make vouchers expire. To protect against price rises is a rubbish reason - if they've had the money long enough for the voucher to expire then it's helped the cashflow, and ultimately it's that which is the most important thing for most companies.

I think vouchers that are for a specific use - i.e. a day at BPW - its fair that they have a time limit. Vouchers that are for say £100 redeemable against say a day at BPW should be unlimited time.

As a business owner personally I'd have made the call that honouring the vouchers would generate more goodwill and lead to repeat visits, but I guess they are within their T&C's.

I find that although the trails and location are spot on, and that I deeply admire the founders efforts (listen to interviews with them, they are sound people), the front line service is somewhat lacking. Café staff are some of the most miserable sods I've had the displeasure of being served by and there is a general sense of officiousness with regards to certain rules (don't try and eat near to closing time, despite the kitchen being packed of staff they don't want to know).

Shop guys vary, I've had amazing service and another visit where I might not even have existed. As always there are two sides to every experience, so this may not be representative.

Can't fault the trails, and I guess that's the point, but it feels to me like the day to day management suffers.

If the voucher has not been redeemed it would also be a pain in the arse balancing the books at the end of the year.

I'm not sure why anyone would every buy someone a gift voucher. Either put some thought into something and buy someone a gift or give them cash.

However, they are well within their rights as the voucher had expired, and it wasn't an unreasonably short period. I'm pretty sure an advance call and explanation prior to expiry would have resulted in a more favourable response.

If the voucher has not been redeemed it would also be a pain in the arse balancing the books at the end of the year.

Presumably though a 12-month voucher issued in February could be used in more than one financial year, so there must be a mechanism for carrying it over?

[quote=nwmlarge ]If the voucher has not been redeemed it would also be a pain in the arse balancing the books at the end of the year.

Not at all - you just list unredeemed vouchers as liabilities. Clearly given a 12 month expiry there will be plenty of unredeemed but valid vouchers at year end (especially if they're doing a standard accounting year which finishes just before most people will want to use the vouchers).

See, I've had great service from BPW, Antur and FoD uplift guys when I've made internet bookings, paid obviously and then realised I can't make the day for whatever reason....in some cases I've phoned and spoken to someone and other times I've just emailed but all of them have happily moved me to a day I can get to....maybe it helps that as I work shifts I tend to book midweek slots but either way they've all been brilliant.

I suppose the issue is that there will be plenty of vouchers issued that will never be redeemed, and if you had to keep carrying them over into the next year as liabilities, it would start to build up and distort the picture after a few years, whereas with a 12 month expiry, you only carry them over once, then they disappear.

I like the idea of a BPW gift voucher so you could buy one for a mate and say "you've got to come there with me now, no excuses".

But I wouldn't buy one as I know from experience that 12 months is not a long time when it comes to organising a group ride and its notoriously difficult to get a booking when you want there anyway.

Yeah they're within their rights, but we all know it's a mean thing to do making the expiry date so short and refusing to honour it. How does that sit with them always saying "we're not a faceless corporate firm, we're bikers just like you"?

See, I've had great service from BPW, Antur and FoD uplift guys when I've made internet bookings, paid obviously and then realised I can't make the day for whatever reason....in some cases I've phoned and spoken to someone and other times I've just emailed but all of them have happily moved me to a day I can get to....maybe it helps that as I work shifts I tend to book midweek slots but either way they've all been brilliant.

[i]There is no legitimate reason a gift voucher should have an expiry date. [/I]

As long as you recognize the liability in your accounts, although once inflation comes back you'll find business may shorten the length of time vouchers are valid for.

mcnultycop - Member

I'm not sure why anyone would every buy someone a gift voucher. Either put some thought into something and buy someone a gift or give them cash.

Thinking "this is something they'd really enjoy but probably wouldn't spend money on/cant afford/wouldn't think to do" and also helping ensure cash can't just be frittered away - not seeing the problem myself

How many out of date vouchers have you had redeemed elsewhere?

The time to have asked was before it expired - sob story about being injured may have got a reissued one for the following year. Not showing up with it, having asked already about redeeming an expired voucher over email.

although once inflation comes back you'll find business may shorten the length of time vouchers are valid for.

Not too sure about this as an argument.

£30 gift voucher buys £30 worth of goods/services at point of sale.

1 year later at 5% inflation it only buys about £28.50 worth of goods/services.

That's how I was thinking of it too.

Or are the vouchers for 1x uplift day, the price of which to deliver may rise for BPW over time?

A friend of mine from Finland had dodgy customer service from them also. He booked online and emailed them asking to swap over his brakes on his hire bike. They said no problem. When he picked up his bike the brakes were not swapped over and on asking them again to switch over they said they were too busy. He did 2 runs, didn't feel comfortable so left disgruntled and £150 poorer.

They are so busy customer service is obviously not their top priority.

1) OP should have got it deferred before it expired
2) they're within their rights
3) it's still poor customer service, I'd be miffed if I was the OP (whilst '1' is a nice idea life gets in the way) and if I was the business, and the OP is part of a group, I'd have honoured it. That's potentially a bunch of customers, not just the OP, they've alienated.

You either accept that vouchers have an expiry date or you don't.

I don't think they are displaying poor customer service. They are doing what they agreed to do. You are the one who wants something else.

@reggie. No one disputes their right to issue vouchers with an expiry date. Only whether it's right to do so. BPW could easily choose to have a 2 year limit a monthly deduction after 1 yr to take inflation ect into account, or have no time limit like some retailers. The fact they don't is a discredit to them, so I say shame on BPW 🙁

They are doing what they agreed to do

Having happily pocketed the cash.

There's a reason that the government feel it necessary to get involved in gift vouchers; if BPW were still waiting for the money they would be a lot more flexible.

I doubt somewhere that sells out 200 places 3 months in advance on weekends really needs to be pandering to people bleating on about bad PR.

They have rules, you stick to them or you forfeit.

They have rules, you stick to them or you forfeit.

They might have rules, but no-one has really been able to come up fro a reason for this particular one.
Similar to the ardrock refund policy.
Just because the rule exists doesn't mean it's good, or fair.

don't worry about the voucher. you've made it. a big hitter has parodied your thread...

I agree they should have done something to promote good will, given you half or just something off the price of the uplift would be fair. Maybe drop the boss an email and copy this thread in. 💡

Typical BPW, just take take take and give nothing at all back.

Is the grumpy tall guy still working in the shop area there?
Probably the most miserable, rudest employee i've ever met.

Right to refuse. It's their business.

Though I did lose money when it chucked it down with snow and closed the place and wouldn't say if it was open on the day I was going until the morning. Was too late for me to decide to go as I'd have a long drive setting off before they announced or would have to get there by mid day after waiting. Sure enough it was open and didn't get my money back. Not much I can do, it's their policy as it was open and not their problem I can't get there. Just like others I think they could be a bit more flexible at times. Given the vast amounts they must be pulling in now. Can't be a struggling business.

Welcome to Wales.

Land of terrible customer service (I live in Swansea).

Typical BPW, just take take take and give nothing at all back.

Yeah, the swine!

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It is poor customer service as they had already received the payment.
A bit of goodwill would have cost them nothing and gained a lot.
Rules is rules though and an out of date voucher is out of date.

I doubt somewhere that sells out 200 places 3 months in advance on weekends really needs to be pandering to people bleating on about bad PR.

And yet Martin Astley has said they are extremely keen to get the repeat visits up, and to increase the spend per visit. I'd say that good PR, goodwill and going the extra mile should be at the very top of every employee's list when thinking about service.

As it is you get grumpy service and food thrown at you, that's fine, they are entirely in their rights as a business to go down that route, but that doesn't fit at all with their aims to get people to open their wallets. The McDonalds down on Cyfarthfa has a warmer welcome, and that's saying something.

I have to say though, the uplift van guys I've encountered are brilliant, but I have friends who have had other experiences, so make of that what you will.

I doubt somewhere that sells out 200 places 3 months in advance on weekends really needs to be pandering to people bleating on about bad PR.

You could say the same about any presently successful company. Good PR/customer service, building customer loyalty, is just insurance against a future with increased competition, the possibly fading novelty of your attraction, and tougher financial conditions, which may make more people question whether to travel that far (and pay that much) for a ride.

As someone else points out it sounds like it had expired by a good margin, it's not like it was the day after when they might have been a bit more inclined to help you out? Personally in situations where a bit of discretionary goodwill comes into play I'm pleasantly surprised and appreciative if it happens and try to be philosophical if it doesn't. So this wouldn't put me of BPW at all.

Service in cafe, shop, registration and vans has always been superb when i've been there

This thread has made me want to book for BPW in the new year.

are we supposed to know who they are captflasher?

Had a similar experience...
Phoned up 2 days before my £100 voucher had expired because I had actually lost them but wanted to use them. Took several days to get the voucher again. In which time the voucher expired. They wouldn't then honour the voucher. Pretty arsey thing to do IMO

Hoping to get a BPW voucher for christmas 🙂

I have to say though, the uplift van guys I've encountered are brilliant, but I have friends who have had other experiences, so make of that what you will.

The van guys have all be great, as long as last one off closes the door 🙂

Service in cafe, shop, registration and vans has always been superb when i've been there

Not great about the voucher obviously - wouldn't put me off going again but probably won't bother buying anyone a voucher now 🙂 (not that I would anyway really). I guess the moral is sort it out [i]before[/i] it expires... a year is a decent length of time IMO

Pure business at BPW

Exactly that. And it's an incredibly badly run business too as far as customer service goes anyway.
I booked some coaching for my mum. She broke her arm a week or so before the lesson so obviously couldn't make it. They refused to rearrange of course so I went in her place.
Now, I am a long way from an expert rider and I was really looking forward to having some coaching but I learned precisely nothing that day.
Partly because the 'coach' was utterly useless at his job, ie coaching, and partly because, as he made abundantly clear, he couldn't be arsed.
I did in the end get my uplift day rearranged (I'd booked a usual uplift for me for the day while my mum had the coaching) but this was after a monumental battle. And having to deal with the computer-says-no woman on reception who clearly sees BPW's rules as a way to make other people (who are out for a fun day out) as miserable as she must be.
In the end I didn't even use my rearranged uplift as I was so disgusted with the place.
I've since moved away to Edinburgh and have used the uplift service at Innerleithen. I booked a Saturday rather than a Sunday and after my BPW experience was ready to kiss the money goodbye. One quick phone call and it was all sorted. No penalty charges, no arsey conversation, no checking with managers... just good customer service. To be honest, Inners DH runs were a bit full on for me and I would have much preferred to be riding the blues at BPW. If only that coaching had worked out better, eh? 🙄

I guess the moral is sort it out before it expires... a year is a decent length of time IMO

why though ???? how would you feel if you put a £20 in a draw and it "expired". Bpw have had the money and given nothing back in exchange. How is it anything less than an indefensible ripoff.

I'm guessing it's something to do with accountants not wanting a growing number of unused vouchers out in the world - in theory it could lead to a large liability on the books.

I doubt the BPW owners have gone out of their way to be dicks about it. I've never met them though so I've nothing to base that on...

OThing really to add re the voucher situation. But to pick up in some earlier posts. I spend a fair bit of time at BPW now, the uplift guys have always been great as have the reception staff. But the cafe has been woeful of late, overpriced and over or under cooked food. Not sure what has changed there but it used to be great but over the last 3 months it's been shocking!

It's defensible because it says "expires in 1 year from purchase" on it.
In squigly writing stuff.

Any body else had coaching there? Booked a spot next week, taking my son as an early Christmas pressie. Presumed they would be decent. Paid now so no going back.

I know B1KE are involved with some of the coaching there, but maybe not all.

If I bought some mince pies and didn't eat them before the expiry date printed on them I wouldn't expect the shop to give me some more to eat that were in date. Same principle applies here, doesn't it?

I'd be kin miserable if I lived in Merthyr!

Djflexure, I have heard some people who coach there are better than others so fingers crossed.
As you say, nothing you can do now.
If you find yourself in the shelter at the top of the runs spending 20 minutes watching a video on his ipad of some people he coached the week/month/year before riding a section of trail, you've probably got the same guy I had.
This despite the fact we'd you've just spent that exact amount of time on the bus getting to the runs in the first place. Sadly, it was not possible to do it on the bus due to the fact that he didn't even sit next to me!

Seriously, hope it goes well but just be aware that you might have to push whoever you get to get the most out of it.

Same principle applies here, doesn't it?

cheers Pilot
happy to push - watching an iPad seems daft, if its not a recording of what you have done.

Cafe at BPW is probably one of the worst I have ever been to. Staff really could not care less, and the food was miserable at best. Worse even than Swinley. For that reason alone, I am out.

Haven't been in over a year, despite it being relatively close(ish).
The trails are awesome. No other word for it.
But you need to book 6-odd weeks in advance, and buying singles is a miserable MTBing experience. BPW obviously make no allowance for or restrict the number of ad-hocs sold. Come mid-morning you're lucky to get on one bus out of four.
Comes across very negative, but it's borne from frustration. Their uplift has never been great, the whole management of it is poor.
I'd love to go every month (and that was my plan this year)
I'll be checking out 417 soon.

Interesting mix of responses, hitting a nerve with some who are defending BPW's rights and striking a chord with others.

I think the title is valid as it will help others not let their voucher expire. I also didn't want people to think it was a sob story and I certainly won't be concerned for long about it 🙂

I did agree that they were within their rights from a commercial perspective. It was very out of date and I should have sorted it with them before it expired.

My point was that it would have been an easy win for them, if not to refund entirely just to meet me half way and offer a half price replacement voucher or free lunch, my mates would have seen that and the final judgement would be great trails and experience and also nice guys.....we'll be back soon.

One of the posts stating that good PR/customer service delivers loyal repeat business and insures against slow down has it spot on. At any organisation (although I'd argue even more so at one whose whole reason for existing is deliver "good times" to the customers) it's for management to instil a culture that is positive, as that is then what will come across to the customers as an experience via the staff. It seems like some of the other posts suggest this needs some work....

Again I'm glad this place exists - it is amazing and I'm sure I'll be back. But we can all improve (cue spelling/grammar critique)!

There isnt even a landline contact number for BPW.. Theres a mobile number and you have no idea who you are talking to. Not helpful when you need to talk to someone in the office and then due to lack of communication (in my experience) they let my voucher expire and wouldn't honour it or offer any goodwill whatsoever.

As a business where do you draw the line and on which explanation given to you?

Feb2015 is getting on for 2years.

Plus you have to give staff clear guidance and a cut off point for consistent confidence in your staffs decisions.

Great you liked the place though, bit dour grapes on your part I feel though.

Not sure what has changed there but it used to be great but over the last 3 months it's been shocking!

Staff turnover basically. Seen a few new faces in the last few visits compared to the regular ones (I go once a month on average, uplift and pedal-up days).

There isn't even a landline contact number for BPW.. There's a mobile number and you have no idea who you are talking to.

Partly the fault of the location, no services went there before as it was just a forestry car park used by the local doggers, druggies and wasters. I think they said in an interview when they opened that putting in multiple phone lines was prohibitively expensive so they only have one for the card terminals, or they may even be mobile?

Either way I think the honeymoon period for the place has definitely finished so they are now being judged against the competition that has sprung up since they opened, 417 and the Black Mountains Centre being the two nearest, so their shortcomings are making themselves heard.

But why have any cut of point. A £30 voucher is just that in 20yrs maybe all it will buy is a packet of crisps in the cafe. But they'd have had £30 for 20yrs to help develop their business. Vouchers are hardly ever a direct exchange for particular goods or services, just monetary value that can be redeemed.

A lot of people misunderstand what a "gift voucher" is and they are almost a scam. There has been loads of press about them and on likes of watchdog a few times. Its a sold item that you then can exchange for another item. Pretend the word voucher is replaced by shoes. 18 months after you bought a pair of shoes you realise they dont fit. Would a shop take them back?

Have heard various tales of less than satisfactory customer service at BPW.

A friend hired a bike from there , had a minor crash, nothing actually broken on the bike, but a few new scratches added to the paintwork, and got charged for the scratches when he gave the bike back.

That seemed a bit off to me, but I'm sure their T&C's covered them for it.

It is a great place to ride, but they do appear a bit over officious at times.

I was a little disappointed in their customer service recently. I had a trip booked, couple of days at BPW and a couple at FoD. I broke my wrist about 3 weeks before, so I emailed both telling them this and asking for a rain check on the bookings.

FoD; yep, not a problem, just let us know when you're healthy
BPW: we can give you a refund, but its a 10 quid restocking fee for each day on the 32 quid uplift fee.

Certainly put a bad taste in my mouth and I'm questioning even going again.