Bike packing - Tent or Bivvy + Tarp?

I had this dilemma and have opted for a double skin Lanshan tent & carbon pole plus a tyvek bivy bag all from AliExpress. All in, the above weighs approx 1.25kg Inc pegs etc. I now have the options of: a zipped bivy bag, an outer only tent, outer only & bivy, full tent or full tent and bivy. All packs up real small too. Probably can be had for around £150.

Either / or

I have both options and pack according to each trip. Sometimes I don't even take a tarp 😜

Tent for respite from midge.

Tarp for better enjoyment of the outdoors.

As above options but cheaply, OEX Phoxx 1 tent from go-outdoors for £55 (can be used outer only with a bivvy bag) and an Alpkit Hunka bivvy bag. All in just over £100.

I do like to sleep in just the bivvy bag and gaze at the stars if weather/bugs permit. Tent is snug but fine if a bit cooler/misty etc. I'm done with wet bivvy's, and sleeping in the snow, so above if fine for fair weather stuff.

Despite suffering from condensation every time I use a bivvy, I still find it preferable as waking up and seeing the stars or a meteor* is a lot nicer than the inside of a tent.

That said, anywhere where there's a chance of a midge, go tent.

*this has happened once.

Either / or

I have both options and pack according to each trip. Sometimes I don’t even take a tarp 😜

Tent for respite from midge.

Tarp for better enjoyment of the outdoors.

This is me too.

Recently invested in a Nordisk Lofoten 1 tent. A stupid, stupid amount of money but as a midge
sanctuary the size of a water bottle it can't really be beat. But there is little better than waking up under the stars when that can be done without a hoard of critters.

Do what I did and buy an inflatable tent and a tarp. On your first bikepacking trip leave the tarp to avoid the midgies, take a Presta pump when you need a shrader and sleep out in the open with a midge net round your head #lessonlearned 😳😂. Loved sleeping under the stars tho!

Or tarp.

Or Bivi.

If there's midges then always a tent. Anything else is weather dependant.

I prefer a Bivi bag with a little triangle of tarp to keep any showers off my face so I can still see out. Or if it's bone dry and definitely not going to rain you can risk sleeping bag al-fresco.

A hooped Bivi might be the best of both worlds, the extra air inside keeps condensation down unless you have to zip yourself in to avoid rain.

Lanshan 1 are cracking wee tents, and peg doors back if ye wanna see the sky.

Unless you spend big money, hooped bivvy is worst of both worlds IMO, heavy, claustrophobic, dreadful.

Only real advantage I can see is if the weather's shite, and space is at a premium.

Tent for respite from midge.

Tarp for better enjoyment of the outdoors.

Surely tent for respite from the outdoors.

Tarp for better enjoyment of the midges.

I would book a nice bed and breakfast and leave the the faddists to it 😉

I had this dilemma also, currently thinking of the luxe mini peak II

For me, it depends where you’re camping……

If you’re on a campsite, sleeping in full view of others can feel like being in your pants in the middle of a shopping centre.

If you’re out in the wild then bivvy and tarp for the views.

IMO

I've been going through this dilemma as I'm due to go on my first bikepacking trip in a couple of weeks.

My mates are doing bivvy and tarp, but I really didn't fancy that. I think I'd feel too claustrophobic.
I bought a Highlander Blackthorn 1 tent for about £50 delivered. It weighs 1.5kg. I had it up in the garden and it's fine. Quick and easy with a small area to store a bag.
I am not sure it's a good choice if you are much above 5'8 because it would get pretty snug at either end. The head end tapers to a point so the total length is a bit misleading.

If I enjoy doing it, I might upgrade to a Lanshan with an alu or carbon pole or a Naturehike tent.

If you are after a halfway house, the OEX Salamander is an interesting option, although for me seemed a bit pricey compared to the £50 I ended up with. I tried it out in my local Go Outdoors and it does seem very well made.

My mates are doing bivvy and tarp, but I really didn’t fancy that. I think I’d feel too claustrophobic.

I guess that depends on whether or not you think you'll be closing up the bivvy bag. I rarely do. In fact, if the tarp is large enough and you're not dealing with bugs then the bivvy bag can be a bit extraneous. My lightest bivvy bag isn't much more than a showerproof/windproof sleeping bag cover.

Cheers all.

Can’t believe how light and or cheap some of the tents are compared to when I last got an old Vango. Looks worth carrying a little more for the cover.

Not one for hype but I’m giving up on overseas travel for the next 2 years and have to face it that UK hotels in most towns suck for leisure / activity and any semblance of luxury / value. Would rather be outside in a field than what some places charge 2-300 a night for these days.

Take B&B that was £50/night a few years bk. Pair with identikit tacky air b&b feature wallpaper and cheap hipster toot from Wayfair attempting to look mid century. Now charge £200 + cleaning fee and still expect me to clean up after 😂😂 No thanks.

A bit late to the party ...

I've used both and both have their advantages and disadvantages. I prefer tarp+bivy as it just feels different to camping. I've woken up when under a tarp to look at deer grazing just a couple of metres away, in a tent they'd be long gone while you open zips, etc. There's just a connectivity to the outside.

There's no need for a full waterproof bivy bag when using a tarp, I've a Borah Gear bivy bag and it's mainly to deal with spray, condensation on the underside of the tarp and insects than actual rainfall - that's the tarp's job.

Tents: light, cheap, usable - pick any two. The really light tents are little more than hooped bivvies in many cases. Something that you can sit up in and not feel like you need to master personal origami will cost - I think ours was the best part of £500. Split between us it's 750g each, the tarp and bivy (with pole & pegs) is about 380g.

Does depend on what your main use will be: for campsites with occasional wild camping go with a tent; wild camping or ultralight go with tarp and bivy. No one right answer.

There’s no need for a full waterproof bivy bag when using a tarp, I’ve a Borah Gear bivy bag and it’s mainly to deal with spray, condensation on the underside of the tarp and insects than actual rainfall – that’s the tarp’s job.

Aye, if you use massive tarp, that's fine, I only ever bivvyd with a wee head tarp. You're correct though, no right answer!.

Well, then there's the question of how many tarps should one own...  🙄

I've also solved the non-waterproof bivvy / small tarp problem.

singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sunny-weekend-lets-see-your-pics/#post-11967681

Some takeaways from my handful of bikepacking trips:-

1. Bought a cheap bivvy bag with a zip. The zip leaked as soon as it started raining. I had a tarp but it was so windy (Gower) I didn't put it up, and it didn't look like it was going to rain!

2. Poncho tarp as a windbreak between two trees to bivvy behind/under worked well. The poncho tarp will come on all bikepacking trips from now on, really versatile and weighs nothing.

3. Wished i'd taken a bivvy bag for KAW when we ended up kinda exhaustedly burrowing into some woods in the dark to pitch tents on a ridiculous slope with branches in our eyes.

My general conclusion is that I prefer a tent, unless it's somewhere where pitching a tent isn't convenient (dense woodland/craggy hillside).

I just searched for the "Nordisk Lofoten 1".

How small?

Only 700mm maximum height on the internal - I've a simple view on tents and that is I've to be able to sit up in it.

That Nordisk isn't cheap, but innovation/leading-edge never is - I've still my old Phoenix Phreeranger goretex 2 man tent, 1.8kg. Single skin but no leakage when you touch the sides as it's goretex. And yes I can sit up in it 🙂

Cost me nearly £300 in 1985 AKA a months' net wages (I was a Programmer, so that was good money then).

Yeah, I thought I might be able to 'just' sit up in the tent I bought. But, nope. It's too low, which is a bit crap. But, it only cost me £50 & my daughter has expressed an interest in it for garden camping adventures (she's only 5) so if I only get a few uses out of it, it doesn't really matter.

I like the look of the Lanshan tents as they seem to have decent headroom, while still being remarkably light & the NatureHike (Cloud 1, I think) also looks to have decent headroom although a very small porch area for storage/cooking.

How small?

Only 700mm maximum height on the internal – I’ve a simple view on tents and that is I’ve to be able to sit up in it.

If you were after tent style luxury you'd be sorely disappointed. I've got other 1 man tents for that (MSR hubba 1 tour - proper space luxury and Hilleberg Soulo for 4 season gnarliness). The lofoten gets used when the alternative for packing and carrying purposes would be a bivvy and a small tarp.

My solution(s) has been to throw a lot of money at the issue and have multiple options. Living in an area where camping is a regular thing and doing a job that has me under canvas lots made it (almost) justifiable. I found a single one man camping solution just did not work for me - always a compromise I didn't need/want.

Re lofotan. Don't store the poles in their pocket.

Rode out with a mate who did.....

Got to fords of avon and the poles had rubbed through.

I normally bivvy and tarp but more recently I've been enjoying my wee tent.

Although last time I did CG loop I just slept in my bag on the grass no tarp no bivvy not even a sleeping mat.....

So the answer as always is n+1 same as sleeping bags really..

The number of folks with mega bucks tiny tents only to whap out a sleeping bag that comes out of a bag the size of a bin liner....

Looking good for a wee cairngorms summit camp this week, first night in the Freelite 🙏🏻

Might even risk it and go fly less!

Aye, if you use massive tarp, that’s fine, I only ever bivvyd with a wee head tarp.

My "massive tarp" is a gargantuan 2.5m x 1.5m!

So, as above, a compromise! 😄

My approach requires a bit of forward planning:

Midges - tent
No midges* - tarp & bivy
Bad weather - building

If I had to pick one to start with I'd go for a tent and just be aware that I'll have to choose a route that allows me somewhere to pitch.

*it does happen

Not really, it weighs 140g with all the guylines and packs down to the size of a water bottle. Gives me full coverage, in fact it's possible to get two under it and stay dry.

Aye, if the rains coming straight down.

It's a compromise, as every tent/bivvy/shelter is.

My “massive tarp” is a gargantuan 2.5m x 1.5m!

I couldn't even keep me under that. do you peg yourself down?

You're not 2.5m tall, nor 1.5m wide 🙂

My "big" tarp is 2.7m x 1.8m. The extra length and width do provide more cover in the event of driven rain

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I've been spending time in a hooped bivi recently in a variety of weather, both on the bike and on foot. Dawn this morning:
[img] [/img]
Some pros, some cons, not entirely convinced - but it's not claustrophobic (I'm 6'3", but I have stopped pegging out the foot end).

But as others have said, it depends. I have a couple of tents, two bivi bags, two tarps, two sleeping bags. I don't hoard unnecessary gear, they all get used quite a lot.

Au contraire mes amis.

Remember the Ft William World Cup DH about five or six years ago that was cancelled/delayed because of a storm going through? Well we were on the WHW during that and at the time we just had an Alpkit Rig3.5 which is 2.4m x 1.4m so a little smaller than the tarp I use now and we stayed perfectly dry under that.

You gain room, both floor area and height, by lifting the tarp (this also gives better airflow so less chance of condensation). You get better protection by lowering it. So it's a balancing act but you don't have to have both sides of the tarp lifted by the same amount, if the wind's coming from one direction then set that side lower but lift the other side to compensate.

Technique over size - as I'm always telling my wife!

Colin - try an asymmetric Holden setup. You get better headroom (well the headroom is better suited to where you sit up) plus a slightly larger portal for ingress/egress.

@scotroutes - What’s the pole you’re using with that tarp? I could do with one.

couldn’t even keep me under that. do you peg yourself down?

Interested.....what mat do you sleep on that is bigger than those dimensions so you don't fall off ?

@jodafett - https://www.bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/product/shelter-specific-poles/

Stu will make up any length you want, in as many sections as you want. That can be handy when thinking about pack size. The upright in that photo is actually the same as I use for my SMD Lunar Solo and in four parts. I also have another half the size (i.e. two parts) but can swap them about for a range of pole sizes.

Fair dos whitestone, it's all good tbh! I like a high level camp really, so a tent suits me better, particularly over multi days where you don't trwlly know what the weather's gonna do.

It's only a kilo, and is bloody good in a wind, I'm a big strong lad, weight is fine.

Ace, cheers. I’ll have a look.

Resurrection time!

Just planning my next trip and have ordered myself a Lanshan 1. Hoping it gives some of the versatility and pack size of bivy/tarp but fewer bugs up my nose. I live in the highlands now, you see.

I've annoyingly chucked out all of my spare tent bits when I moved house so I don't think I have any spare poles to chop up to make a pole for it. Anyone have any suggestions other than spending half the price of the tent again at Barebones for a pole?

@stevious Bearbones poles are really good, tough, packable/compact and light. You might find an extendable bank pole for fishing that suits for £10-15 as a bulkier but cheap alternative. Depends how long it needs to be?

Start with a tarp and a bivvy.

Wake u in a hoolie see you tarp floating off into a nearby tree.

Best of both worlds.

Look in the skips at any campsite after the Easter weekend. You'll find plenty of knackered cheap tents. Good source of fabric for home made shelters and even the poles can be salveged

Anyone have any suggestions other than spending half the price of the tent again at Barebones for a pole?

Cheap  trekking  pole?

Anyone have any suggestions other than spending half the price of the tent again at Barebones for a pole?

Send it back and buy a tent with poles.

Cheap trekking pole?

perhaps should have been clearer. I have trekking poles but I’m looking for something to fit in my frame bag.

I’ll def be using it with a trekking pole when I start going back out with d of e groups.

I bought a carbon pole of AliExpress when I bought my lanshan 1. Being that it doesn't come with a pole I figured that would be a good time to buy one 😂

Yea same as adave2 - I brought mine from Ali when I brought the tent.

I got a 125cm:

￡35.57 | Ultralight Lightweight Carbon Fiber 3F Lanshan Asta Zpacks Tent Support Rod Sturdy Stiff Rigid Tent Pole
https://a.aliexpress.com/_msvjFLA

I bought mine from Ali express, weighs under 100g and seems solid so far.

Alternatively alpkit do one but I think the 125cm has sold out. Email them to see when it's back in stock.

https://alpkit.com/products/vertex-tarp-pole

I've even seen people whittle a small branch down for ultimate lightweight backpacking. 🤣

Did you buy a 1 or a 1pro?

If you bought a pro 1 l, have you seam sealed it? If you bought a 1 you might want to seam seal it round the attachments points just to be sure.

Hmm. Some confusing info about what is the correct pole length for the newer lanshan design. Those of you with the 125cm poles - do you have the 2021 version of the tent?

I went for the 120 and if I need to make it bigger I'll shove something under it. So far 120 has been fine. Mines the newer model too.

Hm, the price of the pole has gone up to £38 for me, so will prob be >£40 once tax is added. Will see if alpkit are getting any in soon and if not sell my childrens organs and buy the bearbones one*.

*I know it's not really that expensive.

Solo camping.....

If your priority is camping then go bivvy bag and tarp. It's all part of the fun setting up camp and sitting out in the evening maybe with a small fire and a dram. Weather depending obviously.

Where if your priority is riding with a last minute pitch at dusk where you are very tired and just need some sleep. Then go tent. One you can pitch in a oner quickly.

Neither are right or wrong, just different.... There will of course be someone along shortly to recommend a hammock 😆

Pole. Surely ebay any cheap tent off the bay. Or try a walking pole.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/1-affordable-hiking-pole-mt100/_/R-p-122861

Anyone have any suggestions other than spending half the price of the tent again at Barebones for a pole?

I got a pole made for my lanshan teepee tent by someone from eBay..was even able to say how long I wanted it to fold to so that it would fit in my frame bag. Wasn't expensive.

I was going to also add that my lanshan teepee tent can go up outer only so is like a tarp only better (in some ways) big though as it sleeps 2.

Ended up going for a BearBones pole to guarantee I get it in time for my trip. No regrets as Stuart is a pleasure to deal with.

Tent + pole + pegs comes in at a shade under 950g - I think my bivy & tarp comes in at about 900g so no complaints from me. Will have to rethink my packing methods to fit it in a it but it'll hopefully be worth it for a bit more warmth.

I've just read all that and it has got me wondering how you all know if there are going to be midges or not before you set off? Seasons obviously, wind?

Apologies if thats a daft question, most of my 'camping' is in a campervan!

My one bikepacking trip was the Calder Divide Trail last September but we've entered the Jennride so I'll soon be doubling that... I opted for the luxury of a reasonably light Alpkit 2 man tent for the space and didn't regret it.

Bit late now but you can buy carbon poles on eBay really cheaply, and the joints and bungee to go with so you can make your own shock corded poles. You can choose your diameter for the tubes. I bought some thin stuff to make long tent stakes for less than solid ground, and 3D printed ends for them.

eBay is the place to go for that kind of gubbins, also kevlar cord in a variety of thicknesses, those little metal bits to make adjustable guys, tiny carabiner clips etc etc. Great resource.

how you all know if there are going to be midges or not before you set off?

Region, weather, time of year but also where you actually end up camping. Anywhere there's still water or wet ground results in lots of midges.

That said, there are many more biting insects besides midges and there are lots of midges outside Scotland. I have a midge-proof head net that is tiny and weighs hardly anything, to be deployed in an emergency, although I am not sure there's an eyelet from which to hang it on my tarp. I need to fix that.

I usually chuck a headnet in the bag from now until late September wherever I am in the UK. It's saved my sanity on a number of occasions. I don't mind sleeping in it.

Re: tent vs bivi, it's as much weather dependent as insect activity. Watch the forecast. I'd normally be in/under a bivi by late April, but after cycling through snow showers on Monday I was glad of the extra shelter a small tent provided.
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Just to hijack this thread a bit.

I've currently got an Alpkit Ordus 2, which I've be using on my last tours and quite happy with it.

However I am thinking of going lighter and smaller for an up and coming tour (1kg or less).

Been looking at the Lanshan 1 tent, but have reservations about durability and whether it will get here on time (I need it before June). I think someone mentioned they usually take about 3 weeks to arrive? Are they a quality piece of kit that will last out, as long as it is looked after?

Also been looking at some of the MSR tents such as the Freelite 1. Fairly happy with durability as they seem to be similar construction to the Alpkit stuff, but with a hydrostatic head of 1200mm are they really suitable for UK/ European use?

Any other recommendations as it's quite hard to choose?

Bump

A superlight tent will never be as durable as a quality heavier one.  Its all about the thickness of the material

I would recomend the trekkertent but you won't get a new one in time tho the odd secondhand one does appear now and then

my big trekkertent stood up well to 70 -80 nights in it last summer but I did tear it being clumsy with the pole.  Easily repaired

Cheers TJ

Will have a look at second hand ones.

There is a facebok group for them - they appear on there sometimes

@ricko1984 - I know someone selling a Trekkertent Stealth 1. Only been used maybe 5-6 times. PM me if you want me to pass on your details.

The Lanshan is very light but seems well built for the money. If used with a footprint and set up properly there's no reason why it shouldn't last. If it does rip, it should be easy enough to repair.

My previous tent lasted really well but I damaged it when it was packed up strapped to the bike and something rubbed a hole in it.

Hi Scotroutes (sorry don't know how to link your name), that would be really helpful thanks as looks like a nice tent.

The stealth 1 is pretty small - I have the 1.5.

Click on scotroutes name and you can message him

Thanks TJ