[Closed] Bike options: flat bar commuter, discs, mudguard clearance?

Boardman hybrid range, £500-£1K, GF has cheapest one and it seems good.

EDIT I looked around a lot and found no alternatives at £500.

I've been using a Merida Speeder T2 (£570) for my daily commute and it hasn't missed a beat. I don't know if they do disc brakes though. Maybe their s-presso range does though.

I've got a roadrat which I've just retrofitted with SLX discs. Really like it for the commute and ticks all of your boxes.

out of interest, why disks on a commuter? its not like the mud fowling is going to affect Vs a lot?

but the salt kills pistons on hydraulics ....

I'm another Roadrat user - mine is an Alfine with disks.

The reason for disks on a commuter is that they've got lots more power, require less maintenance and are far less annoying in wet conditions IMHO. Also in my case all my other bikes have disks and I'm so used to that level of stopping ability now that V's or cantis feel terrible in comparison.

First time I've seen this Roadrat. Looks awesome! Now I want one. Discs for commuting seems a little excessive to me, although I can sympathise with the horrible feeling of rim brakes!

The reason for disks on a commuter is that they've got lots more power, require less maintenance and are far less annoying in wet conditions IMHO.

+1 - and been said a million times on here!

On One Pompetamine? £799 at the mo including Shimano Alfine hub gears and hydraulic discs. Be quick tho as this is probably an 'intro offer'!

Charge Mixer 2010? got all the things you want part from toe overlap - but not an issue on the road...

[img] [/img]

where are you going to use it? flat part of the world?

road rats look cool (black) but not the brown ones, I wanted one, but they are too small..

but the salt kills pistons on hydraulics ....

This is exactly what i found on my commuter too!

They were avid juicy 3's which are known for corrosion, so maybe others are better? i guess maintenance would stop it, but the whole point as that they'd be less maintenace. i've stuck with rim brakes since.

My roadrat (although it now has a front rack as well):
[img] [/img]

You might want to think about a Kona Dr Dew. Bit short on the top tube so you'd probably have to buy a bigger than normal size but v.fast and they have Shimano hydraulic brakes as standard.

Oops, just saw the requirement about no toe overlap. That's going to be difficult for any commuter with 700c wheels.

Oops, just saw the requirement about no toe overlap. That's going to be difficult for any commuter with 700c wheels.

That doesn't seem to be an issue on my Roadrat.

The reason for disks on a commuter is fashion, 100%. Be honest. It's not a bad reason - your money, get what you want. But power? Please. Personally I think it is daft, but each to their own. I wouldn't be seen dead on a flat barred road bike either - again, each to their own.

Toe overlap becomes very hard to avoid if you're on the shorter side. Also quite easy to get used to though...

A recommendation for a great road bike - I am very happy with my Kinesis Racelight tK, which is fast and comfortable. Or another Audax style bike - basically a well-fitted drop barred "racer" but with a wee bit more tyre/mudguard clearance, a smidge more "give" for comfort, and a little bit more relaxed in the angles for slightly more stable handling.

Is there a reason for [b]not[/b] running disks on a commuter bike?

[i]Is there a reason for not running disks on a commuter bike?[/i]

1) Cost a little bit more
2) Don't look as good
3) A bit heavier
4) Fashion

I'll take that over constant faffing around with filthy rim brakes in the winter though. I can see why those who think that road bikes should reflect the sport of road bike racing would hate them, but for day in day out winter slogs they're useful. Also useful if you want to take the occasional shortcut off road when it's wet out.

Is there a reason for not running disks on a commuter bike?

people using discs look like fashion victims but you 'wouldn't be seen dead on a flat barred road bike'!?

all the anti disc brake arguements were used in exactly the same form against disc brakes for MTB's when they first came out.

aren't most road bike calipers more than disc brakes anyway?

I've run discs for 5 years on my commuting road bike.

Plenty benefits as above, and funnily enough glenp is not persuading me back yet, he's prob a low mileage fair weather rider with vanity-project bikes.

"overbraked" FFS!

I've already said "each to their own", was only responding to the question.

Flat barred road bike is just wrong, for me. Unless its a Sturmey Archer'd ancient sturdy shopper.

i have a Pearson Touche - light, choice of bars (bullhorn, drops or straight) single speed or 3 speed hub.. or fixed

room for proper guards with space for 622-28 tyres and also rack mounts - very comfy and quick, but with some practicality. Toe overlap is not an issue on the road and dual pivot calipers work well.

The reason for disks on a commuter is fashion, 100%. Be honest.

these people who think discs are overkill for town/commuting use must ride a lot slower than i do or are talking from a position of ignorance.

the amount of adjustment it takes to keep vs working even 10% as well as discs is ridiculous, and even then in wet weather or with any sort of load on the rack the stopping power is absolutely shit. not much good when you ride around a busy city full of unexpected traffic/pedestrian manoeuvres!

Strange that you've formed such a detailed opinion based on one tiny piece of information.

If you could read, you would have seen that I was not attempting to persuade anyone back - I've said several times "each to their own". It's you money, your bike and you are perfectly entitled to express your "taste" however you please.

I don't think any of my bikes are vanity projects, whatever that is.

If you are frequently needing to stop in an emergency fashion your road observation must be absolutely dire, in which case perhaps disks are a good idea, for you. Looking ahead is a good idea, and doesn't cost anything.

[i]constant faff with filthy rim brakes[/i]

its a commuter ffs. the centre-pull brakes i have, got new blocks about 2yrs/4000miles ago, since then ive not adjusted them at all and not cleaned the bike.

ok so i gotta put new blocks in soon, the levers nearly touch the bars

who said anything about emergency stopping? 😕

Why stop so suddenly then? You mentioned unexpected things that you are reacting to - so, to answer your question

who said anything about emergency stopping?

at the end of the day on the road brakes are only as good as the road / tyre grip level an din places this is an issue, grid irons, diesel, sick, whitelines.

and for the rear disc can get in the way of panniers, racks etc but they are racks etc that are designed to clear etc and frames that have inboard calipers to help

some of the new little road specific disc systems look neat.

as for which bike, just take a few out for a spin and see which you like the feel of most.

as for other options these Marins look nice:
[img] [/img]
vee brakes - happy compromise? plus alfine

Ooooft, that's a lot to get through...

Firstly, cheers for the suggestions - I've yet to look but will do 🙂

My commute's about 50/50 road/offroad mix inc proper, occasionally muddy trails. Goes from 180m altitude (home) to sea level in 5-6 miles, so gears are essential as I refuse to MTFU. Through all weathers regardless, including a few days this winter where my freehub froze...

Alfines: unfortunately the gear range isn't sufficient for my commute. I run a 29er MTB with an Alfine and tried it on my commute, but I need a wider range. Shame really as I love the low-maintenance aspect of it.

Disc brakes: essential for me. Part of my commute is proper (occasionally deep) muddy forest tracks - canti/V-brakes eat pads and are manky as a result. Plus IMO discs require far less maintenance: my wife's commuter has Shimano discs (and an Alfine) and I barely need to touch it. I also had water freeze onto my rims a few times this winter, so discs are a no-brainer for me.

Toe overlap: really gets my goat! Not an issue on tarmac, but a bloody liability offroad with tight turns like I have. Not helped by size 11 feet, bulky winter boots and full-length guards! The flat-bar Roadrat doesn't have overlap issues (I heard from Cotic that this was one of Cy's pet hates) hence it's appeal.

TBH I think I'm swinging more and more towards the Roadrat. I've yet to hear that I can definately get one via my work's particular scheme, hence still wanting to hear about more "mainstream" possibiities should I have to resort to Halfords.

(folks - please lets leave the whole disc vs rim brakes on commuters, otherwise this could rumble on forever LOL).

[ glenp - Member

Why stop so suddenly then? You mentioned unexpected things that you are reacting to - so, to answer your question

who said anything about emergency stopping?

You did.

i see where you got confused. i said stopping power, meaning the ability to decelerate. you read the word stop and thought i was talking about emergency stopping. not your first error in this thread.

Disc brakes on commuter bikes is anti-fashion, as are mudguards: no-one fits either to look cool, they only do so for practical reasons, no?

Functional : http://cotic.co.uk/product/bikes/roadrat/geared

I read what you wrote.

And since I've only expressed my opinion, how can I have made any mistakes at all?

Actually, I have made an error - I'll stop responding to your posts and that's that one sorted.

the biggest problem I've experienced with rim brakes on a daily commuter is the black gunk that is flicked all over the bike and your legs. Shimano pads are easily the best by a long chalk for stopping in the wet, but also possibly the worst for this. Full length mudguards do little as the pads cause the gunk to spray out. Actually, drum brakes would be my first choice, but discs are probably more practical & at a guess probably better if you carry loads in panniers/trailer. Why doesn't anyone make a drum brake that:
a) uses 6-bolt/centrelock to mount the drum to the hub
b) uses IS/post mount to mount the brake arm to the frame.
There's a gap in the market if ever I saw one. Would be ace for winter mtbing too. Hobby engineers get to your sheds!

choice is going to be pretty limited then.

all the disc X bikes are going to have tow overlap....
Charge Mixer will have toe overlap

alfine (supprised not enough range) hybrids not enough range + tend to have vee/caliper

or perhaps a proper tourer - Galaxy or Ridgeback - bigger sizes tend not to have toe overlap.. but then they have caliper or canti brakes...

so that leaves

roadrat or lightweight rigid 26er or 29er with slimmer tyres etc.

The off-road element changes the question completely. Regular mudguard are a non-no, surely? Cloggage all the way. I'd ride a mountain bike, with disks.

1) Cost a little bit more
Not a lot if we're comparing cheap disks (Julies in my case) with decent V's or cantis - plus I can afford it anyway!

2) Don't look as good
Not IMHO

3) A bit heavier
I've got a Brooks B17 and an Alfine on my bike so obviously don't care!

4) Fashion
Not an issue for me - I can't go out of fashion as I was never in fashion...

kelvin - Member
'Is there a reason for not running disks on a commuter bike?'

1) Cost a little bit more
2) Don't look as good
3) A bit heavier
4) Fashion

On a commuter a drum brake would do the job.

Pros - No pistons to seize, braking surface out of the weather. Incredible reliability - you won't be needing to spend money on consumable parts for years. S-A hub brakes run beautifully.

Cons - can't think of any unless you are fashion conscious.

f you are frequently needing to stop in an emergency fashion your road observation must be absolutely dire, in which case perhaps disks are a good idea, for you.

do infrequent emergancy stops require less powerful brakes? 😉

Nope. All require adequate brakes. Otherwise known as brakes.

I am ever so slightly swayed to disks on a commuter for one particular reason, which is very low maintenance.

did you see that the OP said drop the disc / non disc debate.....

im only taken by discs on road for touring.

glenp - Member

The off-road element changes the question completely. Regular mudguard are a non-no, surely? Cloggage all the way. I'd ride a mountain bike, with disks.

Yeah I should've said that at first, but I'm surprised most people on a MTB forum associate commuting solely with tarmac - I must be lucky 🙂

I've been OK re clogging so far using 35c CX tyres with wider SKS chromoplastics (meant for 45c I think) mounted with a bit of a gap beween them and the tyre. Obviously that doesn't help the toe overlap issue on my current bike, but I've had no clogging. It's not a full-on depths-of-winter-hell mudfest on my commute, but it's enough to warrant the 'cross tyres, if you know what I mean.

rootes1 - Member

did you see that the OP said drop the disc / non disc debate.....

i reckon you might have compromise on one of the requirements to get the best deal/bike...

what specically to you not like about the Vapour?

I have an MTB and also a hybrid - went for the Boardman Pro Ltd with discs, flat bar etc - is a really nice ride, even on some longer rides it's comfy. I upgraded to a carbon seat-post that was very worthwhile, and XTR pedals, but otherwise comes well specced anyway

http://www.boardmanbikes.com/hybrid/hybrid_proltd.html

rootes1 - Member

i reckon you might have compromise on one of the requirements to get the best deal/bike...

what specically to you not like about the Vapour?

I know, apart from the Roadrat I think I'll struggle to find any alternatives.

It's purely the lack of discs (no mounts on frame or fork to upgrade either) and the bloody toe overlap that annoy me about the Vapour. Otherwise it's been a cracking bike for the past couple of years. I could live with drop bars again but I think most drop bar frames are shorter than flat-barred frames (to do with the geometry) hence looking at flat-barred.

There is the Genesis Croix De Fer: almost suits my needs apart from still suffering from toe overlap. I've tried one (I like my Genesis bikes) and don't see it as a replacement as it only solves one of my issues...

BigAirNig - Member

I have an MTB and also a hybrid - went for the Boardman Pro Ltd with discs, flat bar etc - is a really nice ride, even on some longer rides it's comfy. I upgraded to a carbon seat-post that was very worthwhile, and XTR pedals, but otherwise comes well specced anyway

http://www.boardmanbikes.com/hybrid/hybrid_proltd.html

Funnily that's a good option if I go for the Halfords scheme. Do you have any issues with toe overlap? Does it have full mudguard clearance?

I got the 'Ridgeback flight 04' Alfine,full mudguards SLX disc brakes on the CTW scheme last year, I've been pretty happy with it but had to have the rear wheel rebuilt on warranty.
It came to 999 including the rear rack mudguards and rear light.

Nope. All require adequate brakes. Otherwise known as brakes.

That statement is just totally inadequate 😀

What about Genesis Croix de Fer? Discs (Shimano), and a Tiagra triple. Not sure about toe overlap.

Salsa Vaya looks to be an answer, but over budget...

you could build up a bike based on a ridge 26er and then fit 700c wheels etc would be fine with discs..

but then they would be almost a road rat - also road rat has track rear drop outs - more of a faff to take the rear wheel out

Big S crosstrail pro?
[img] [/img]

not a cool looking as roadrat and looks a bit gash..

reckopn you should for that croix de fer and get over the toe overlap issue... i have size 12 feet - you just get used to it

in answer to the original question i'd get a pompetamine, as the toe-overlap seems off-putting at first but in my experience is very rarely noticeable let alone an issue.

if it is a problem, though, i'd just get an inbred.

Re. Boardman

Excuse my ignorance on toe overlap - do you mean hitting front wheel on a turn ??? if so - I have not experienced a problem at all.

As for mudguard clearance - I don't honestly know how much room they take up, but there is space above the tyre - I'd be surprised if you couldn't get something to fit ....

I have a 2010 Ridgeback flight 04 and I think its great - looks good too IMO :

[img] [/img]

ps. but the saddle is gash - i'm gonna change it ASAP

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43121659@N06/4209587282/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43121659@N06/4208827995/

that flight looks nice

if toe overlaps a big issue couldn't you just fit some different forks? surely it depends entirely on the toptube length - a larger frame will have less of an issue?

Hi,

Also got a Boardman Pro Ltd though I ditched the flat bars and hydraulics for drop bars with BB7s. Nice bike, rides fast and will take knobbly tyres come the cross season.

Having been commuting through traffic every day for the last 6 years or so with rim brakes, I'd like to switch to discs for one reason: response time in the wet. When it's properly wet, rim brakes pick up a film of water and it takes at least a full rotation of the wheel with the brakes on to clear it. Once cleared, the stopping power is fine, but I'd much rather have brakes that work when I pull them, not a second or so later.

My commuter is an old road frame, with [url= http://www.profile-design.com/profile-design/products/base-bars/aluminum-base-bars/airwing.html ]Profile Airwing[/url] bars and Zefal mudguards (designed for bikes with no mudguard clearance). I think the Airwings are ideal for a commuter, offering a reasonable drop whilst keeping your fingers properly over the brakes - unlike riding on the hoods of drop bars, and if you want to sit up on a hill you can use the cross bar.

careful pdw - if you say you like to be able to stop quickly glen the wise will inform you you have no road sense. 😆

I have just replaced an steel inbred 29er (slot dropout) with a scandal frame.

Main reason - found removing rear wheel wheel a faff. For a geared bike slot dropouts (as found on the roadrat) aren't really a plus point.

Regarding putting skinnier tires on a 29er - bike is currently shod with Maxxis Raze 700x35 and the bottom bracket height seems veeeeeery low.

Actually, what is the bb height on a 700c hybrid (with 30-35mm tires)?

One thing with the roadrat, is that even with gears fitted you can move the rear wheel backwards for loads of mudguard/tyre/mud clearance in the winter, or tuck the rear wheel in close with skinnier tyres and no guards in the summer.

I might have been spoiling for a fight a little bit yesterday - sorry, grumpy Monday syndrome. Or just grumpy anyday syndrome. Not that I didn't mean it all, but I should have been nicer about it!

Thanks for the responses - that gives me a couple more things to look at. The idea of a 26" MTB frame with 700c wheels isn't something that I thought about before, but I'll look into it. Possibly not as much of an option if I'm buying a complete bike on my bike to work scheme though.

Got to admit I'd not considered the horizontal dropouts on the Roadrat being an issue before. I can see minuses and pluses for them though, as people have mentioned above.

Ah, the toe overlap issue: I do tend to find it a problem and if there's a bike option without it, then I'm keen to explore it. I honestly didn't know toe overlap existed until I bought a road bike a few years ago (which I sold soon after...). If it was totally unavoidable then fair enough, I'd just live with it, but my wife's bike doesn't suffer it being a 700c wheeled flatbar Giant and the Roadrat certainly claims not to have it (the flat-bar model): [i]"For flat bars, we didn't want some half baked 'flat bars stuck on a road frame' effort. We started with our award winning mountain bike frame layout, and optimised it around a longer, faster position for easy speed on the road. Long, low slung top tubes means no toe overlap or standover problems, and because of where the rider is positioned, mountain bikers used to central weight distribution and whipcrack singletrack handling will feel right at home. Just right for weaving through the morning traffic."[/i]. Perhaps I'm being taken in by the marketing, but that sounds good to me...

[img] [/img]

Should've said I've posted that pic as it shows a good amount of space between where the pedal will be and the front wheel - good for no toe overlap.

The horizontal dropouts are the one thing I'd change about the roadrat. Not used an eccentric BB or (unfortunately) the Ibis Tranny solution but horizontal slots seem a 'messy' way of taking up the slack and (only speaking for myself) make getting the wheel out a PITA

Could you just fit a disc compatible fork? I did that for my singlespeed 'winter' bike (a roadrat one coincidentally) and it made a world of difference.

Cheaper than a new bike, but if you want a new bike....

Not read all the posts...have you looked at the crosstrail expert or pro? both come with hydraulic discs brakes and would seem to fit the rest of your specifications...

I've got a RoadRat and love it. I've done some major road rides on it too with no problem. I'm thinking of changing the MTB gearing to a more road-oriented setup now though..

I've never run guards on it before (I have a CrudCatcher) but will need to fit some in the autumn - what do other RoadRat users use?

Apologies for the slight hijack but the OP is considering buying one and he is planning to fit guards... 🙂

sks full length FTW.

the roadrat ticks all of your boxes a11y.

I love mine. Horizontal dropouts do mean that fixing punctures when running full mudguards is a wee bit awkward, but that's the only downside I have found.

As for mudguards I use full length SKS chromoplastics (FTW +1) for up to 28c tyres, although they do them for bigger rubber too.

It's great for the commute, trips to the pub and handles surprisingly well when laden down with too much beer/shopping. Comfy on longer rides too.

i've got some tortec reflector ones,
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=9498
seeem pretty sturdy and have a nice reflective bit round the edge. the 700c 20-26 size is quite tight on 23mm tyres though. Think i'd size up if buying again.

I love mine. Horizontal dropouts do mean that fixing punctures when running full mudguards is a bit awkward, but that's the only downside I have found.

On my single speed road bike I have track ends and full sks guards.

if you fit the SKS secuclips designed for the front guards than you can disconnect the guard stays quickly without tools and it allows you to slide the back wheel out if you need to.

beanum - Member

Apologies for the slight hijack but the OP is considering buying one and he is planning to fit guards...

No problem at all, useful to know!

rootes1, useful info, thanks. I'm using SKS Chromoplastics on my current bike but think I junked those plastic detacher things for the front, but I'd probably need new guards anyway as my front one's held together with duck tape...

**** it, I've not had an email back from that shop so I'll call them about a Roadrat. Thinking about the geared, V-brake model (£110 cheaper than the disc-equipped one) if it comes with disc-wheels. Could then fit my preferred discs (Shimano) rather than be tied to the ones it comes with).

debaser - Member

the roadrat ticks all of your boxes a11y.

I love mine. Horizontal dropouts do mean that fixing punctures when running full mudguards is a wee bit awkward, but that's the only downside I have found.

I've never owned a bike with horizontal dropouts - is that a problem common to all horizontal dropouts? My singlespeed frames have always had eccentric BBs and vertical dropouts so I've no experience of horizontals.

I have been lucky avoiding punctures (fingers crossed) since changing to Schwalbe Land Cruiser tyres with puncture resistant stuff, so I'd hope not to have to remove the rear wheel often anyway. Damn, I'm already talking my way around the negatives on the Roadrat...

what about a Cannondale BadBoy 26 Disc - ticks all the boxes from the OP question

I've never owned a bike with horizontal dropouts - is that a problem common to all horizontal dropouts?

Depending on the guards and how tightly fitting they are. I use some SKS raceblades on my single speed and there's enough flex in them to just push them back in the event of a puncture. So from my experience not a big problem, but I'm not looking for Formula 1 wheel change times (truth be told I'm usually glad of a break :-))

Flat bar, disc'd, alfined Roadrats due back in stock early July, apparently.

I have a vouvher burning a hole in my pocket.

Looking forward to trying a number of new things (700c wheels, alfine etc) compared to a semi-slicked MTB. Commute will be pretty similar to OP's, road and trail.

A mate mentioned a Singlular Cycles Gryphon, which looked like an interesting option (looks being a big divider with that bike). Couldn't do it within my budget unfortunately.