[Closed] Bike frames...they're getting expensive now aren't they!

£99

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOPK27/on-one-parkwood-275-frame

Just spotted the new Yeti frame

It's nice, though.

Nope, On One stuff is cheap, my complete ready to race YT is 2k on the nose.
Bird frames are good value....ditto Ragley, Nukeproof etc....but yeah if you're gonna limit yourself to boutique brands like Yeti I suppose things do seem expensive.

tpbiker - Member
Just spotted the new Yeti frame is £3700 quid!! WTF???

other frames / bikes are available...

f'rexample: my Codeine, it was a total bargain, and it's chuffing ace.

I get the impression that the priciest of the pricey are, er, very pricey these days.

The big brands tend to make some very expensive complete bikes, too. Even accounting for inflation, far more expensive than they once were.

But as others have said, more competitively priced products are available.

my twopenneth.
sold a bike recently, frame price is now £1600.
bought a new bike as a replacement, frame price is £480.

both are steel. weight is negligible. and on this mornings 7 mile offroad commute, both ride the same.

if you want it, and can afford it, I don't think it is something I see as expensive.

Depends,Cotic Flare £1499, Santa Cruz Bronson £1600. You could buy an On One for a lot less but most folk are brand loyal and will want to spend extra. Those prices above are really reasonable IMO for a product that gets good design and testing. Whereas I wouldn't spend money on an On One due to poor design and customer service. (Had 2 Cotics and 2 Santa Cruz)

Like the Fox 36 and fork pricing I think the Santa Cruz V10 was a watershed moment at £2,500 a decade ago (£3,500 now). People bought it and so companies kept charging it. Then a few years ago we had the first trail bike frame go over £2k. People bought it, now everyone does it.

For the 2017 model year both Evil and Yeti are charging over £3k for a push bike frame. If people pay it every other boutique brand will charge it, and I think with very limited justification.

Over £3k then it goes pop the swinging arm and have to wait 4 months for a new one and people put there noses up at Treks when you can get a whole bike for that,that rides just as good if not better and they cough up on the warranty too, pays your money and takes your chance 😀

The guys at Silverfish seem nice, but they've got some brass neck when it comes to pricing.

As mentioned, the Cotic FS frames seem like a bargain compared to a lot of brands.

people put there noses up at Treks

trek boone 2016 £550, 2017 £750. Thats over 36% increase product year on product year. That's crazy.

So is toilet paper

A Yeti Lawwill 6 was £3K frame only in 1997.

That's about £5K at today's prices adjusted for inflation.

Just sayin'

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...[s]most[/s] [u]some[/u] folk are brand [s]loyal[/s] [u]snobs[/u] and will want [u]others[/u] to [u]think they[/u] spend extra...

"Boutique/premium" bicycles are mostly just another Keeping up with the Joneses/wealth display thing now aren't they...

It's the same as pulling shiny new golf sticks from of the boot of your newly registered German business saloon, apparently "it matters" which brand of dandyhorse you affix to the roof too...

The first owners never actually use the bastard things do they, just keep it 12 months, start talking about depreciation and flip it on...

Wow where do you live I would love to pick up a Trek Boone at £750 that's a bargain!!!!

Some bargains at Silverfish UK
http://www.silverfish-uk.com/Category/14029/Clearance

A Yeti Lawwill 6 was £3K frame only in 1997.

That's about £5K at today's prices adjusted for inflation.

Just sayin'

Is your point that Yetis have always been a rip-off?

Expensive bikes have always been expensive. The original intense m1 was £2.5k over twenty years ago.

"Boutique/premium" bicycles are mostly just another Keeping up with the Joneses/wealth display thing now aren't they

£3700 for a Yeti frame vs £3799 for a Carbon Capra?

Maybe if Teti were especially high quality there'd be some justification, but all that comes to mind for me when I see the brand name is "snapped chainstay"

I think MTBers buy quality , quality costs.

I think most people just buy what they're told to buy.

Buy alu, spend the literally thousands of pounds of left over money on suspension tuning and riding.

There's an awful lot of not comparing like for like on this thread lol

The 10K Intense is crazy alright as are 2.5k on Enve's wheels! But hey ho, prices are what people will pay I guess. Carbon frames are going through the roof (for branded frames) SC, Evil, Yeti, etc, groupsets are also going up and up, even XT at RRP is £800.

I'm not sure that the R&D costs equates solely to the high costs, I think the marketing smoke is probably at least the same! I'm not sure I could tell the difference between SLX and XT or XT and XTR, but the shininess will appeal all the same, until the bank balance tugs me back to reality!

Blame the "take meh money" muppets who proclaim everything is too cheap.

Businesses are always happy to oblige.

Boutique brands will always be more expensive than the likes of Canyon etc. because of the business model. Supposing you have a bike that costs £1200 to build (in base costs).

Direct @33% margin thats 1200 * 1.5 + VAT = £2160. If you compare that to a boutique brand sold via a distributor and then a shop as most are (Yeti, Santa Cruz etc. as mentioned here), then thats 1200 * 1.5 * 1.5 (Distributor) * 1.5 (Shop) + VAT = £4860. So you get a naturally higher price for the 'same' product by virtue of its distribution channel. So logically, ignoring all other factors such as marketing spend etc. If you think that you're getting a better product (lets call that a 20% premium) you should expect to pay around £6000 for a boutique 'equivalent' of a £2180 direct bike.... so they don't seem so overpriced after all when you think of it in terms of where the costs come from.

I should say that I don't know the distributor and shop margins for these products, but I am sure you get the idea.

Working for a distributor (not in the bike trade, admittedly), I dream of making double figure margins...

Expensive frames are expensive - what a shocking revelation! Have you rung the Daily Mail yet?? 😆

In real terms, i suspect Bikes are cheaper than ever, especially considering the spec you now get. Go back 10 years an £2k got you a nice, but pretty basic ally HardTail. Today, for the same money you can get a Carbon FS bike with probably twice the travel and weighing less.....

The 20% slump in the £ against the $ and Euro hasn't exactly helped.

Alternatively the new chameleon frame is 50 quid cheaper than the 2013.

Is your point that Yetis have always been a rip-off?

It's only a rip off if you have no choice but to pay it.
They're expensive? Yes. They're a rip-off? Not so sure about that.

The reality is that there has never been a better time to be a mountain biker. Yes, premium stuff has always been, and will always be, expensive. However what's now considered a low/mid priced MTB is a hell of a lot better than it was 10-15 years ago!

I realise other bikes, and most often really good bikes are available for far less.

I'm not complaining, I'm not going to spend 3.7k on a frame any time soon so it doesn't bother me. I was just a bit startled when i saw how expensive they were. I thought the top end frames (santa cruze, yeti etc) were around 2.5k not so long ago. To be fair Santa Cruz pricing now seems reasonable in comparison.

They arent always "top end frames" though - for gravity racing the 3.5k frames arent automatically faster - some are shit!

Buy/ride what you like. Personally I wouldn't;t judge anyone by their choice of bicycle and the "look at that *whatever* and his/her expensive bike, what a ****" way of thinking is really, really dickish. Some people need to have a word with themselves.

There's a lot of wealthy people playing at "mountain biking" that are willing to pay the current prices so yes it's a lot of money but it's not going to change anytime soon.

However, these rich people also buy a lot of stuff so there's always 6 months old yetis on pinkbike going for less than the cost of a frame only. I bought one last month for significantly less than £3k.

The guys at Silverfish seem nice, but they've got some brass neck when it comes to pricing.

Firstly, thanks 🙂
Secondly, you appreciate we don't set the global pricing do you?

Look at the Euro pricing, or Oz, or NZ, etc, and you'll see prices that convert very similarly.

I doubt they expect to sell too many £3.5K frames, but that's not the point of them. The point is a) to get people talking about the brand (job done), b) to make you think of it as a "premium brand" and c) to make you think that £2.5K frame (the one they do want you to buy) is actually good value (rather than taking the piss).

Fair play to anybody who does buy the frame though. If you want it and you can afford it then why not.

There's a lot of wealthy people playing at "mountain biking"

In 2006 my (alloy) S-Works Enduro was £3500 rrp, bike not just frame and 36's plus full XTR (including cassette).

Current one, carbon though, is £7400 rrp but the dearest alloy one is £2900 (with a Yari and 1x11).

Seems good value tbh.

Purchasing power reckons that £1.00 in 2006 ought to be nearer £1.35 so it would seem to me that we're still getting good value.

Hang on what new Yeti frame?

The sb "turq" are £3700.

Wait ten months and you'll get one nearly half that price.

I picked up a brand new sb6c frame with a free hope headset for about 2k at the end of last season before this year's frames came out.

Makes me laugh. Spend 5-7grand on a bike , when if you look around you could build a new full suspension for under 2g that would go up and down just as well as a 5-7g bike.

Can we pop this is the haters love to hate thread? The inverse snob is trying today

I have been mountain biking since I was 12 years old. I am not "playing"... due to taking big risks and working bloody hard, I can afford whatever bike I want now... and whats wrong with that? Its tiring the constant righteous poor lobbyists on here at times!

Ah, I don't care what brand or how much your bike was ( nor do a lot of people I know/ ride with) or how capable you are ( you'll be faster braver than I am more than likely) it's all about larking about on a bike and enjoying yourself on a bike! I though the OP was just expressing a blimey that's a fair few quid thought, I had the same when I saw the 10k intense or a super record eps groupset costing 4K+!!

Wot he said^^^its not a pop about how much money people have or spend,but some of the stuff,bikes components, clothing is just blatantly over the top expensive poor value for money (in my opinion)

Wot he said^^^its not a pop about how much money people have or spend,but some of the stuff,bikes components, clothing is just blatantly over the top expensive poor value for money (in my opinion)

Yeah, for a 10 grand build I'd rather have some kind of modular set of cromoly front triangles of varying lengths, rocker links of varying progressiveness and lateral stiffness and rear swingarms with lots of length adjustment.

If I'm spending crazy money I'd want almost factory level options of custom tuning and geometry options to fettle - not a chassis that is a bit stiffer and lighter.

It's all a bit too chav/Porsche Macan - as opposed to being function/racing oriented.

For me the nice thing about mountain biking is the sheer variety and choice there is in the market to suit most people's budget. I think it's great that their are aspirational brands. It's also important for folks to understand that there are different perceptions of value. What I see as good value is different from the next person. Do I think the price of a new pair of 36's is ridiculous...yes. Would I buy another set...absolutely.
But then I wouldn't touch one of those high end Yeti frames, as I just couldn't bring myself to shell out that much cash on a brand which has currently quite questionable issues over build quality.

Ive bought one. Do i hide under a rock or post a picture?

Ive bought one. Do i hide under a rock or post a picture?

Wear your turquoise with pride 🙂 Don't let the holier-than-thou-because-I-ride-an-On-One-rigid-singlespeed-that-cost-a-tenner STW types put you off enjoying what you worked hard for!

If I'm spending crazy money I'd want almost factory level options of custom tuning and geometry options to fettle - not a chassis that is a bit stiffer and lighter.

It's all a bit too chav/Porsche Macan - as opposed to being function/racing oriented.

Mikewsmith.
I think I speak for everyone when I say I'm getting pretty sick and tired of you coming on here with your logical and reasonable responses.
Consider this a warning, next time I'm reporting you to Mods.

😉

Cheers Rich, I'm looking forward to seeing the man pilot one of these round our local trails next weekend too 🙂

Yeah fingers crossed the weather treats they all a little better this round.

January compared to March.....
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mb51
Makes me laugh. Spend 5-7grand on a bike , when if you look around you could build a new full suspension for under 2g that would go up and down just as well as a 5-7g bike.

er, no, no you couldn't!

i've got a 6.5k bike, i built it from new parts, and it has the best of everything on it. The parts cost 3.5k, the frame the other 3k.

You might be able, we some lucky ebaying etc, be able to find the same parts second hand and hence build the same spec bike for a bit less (second hand XTR di2 anyone?? 😉 but you ain't going to build it for £2k to anything like the same spec!

mb51 - Member
Makes me laugh. Spend 5-7grand on a bike , when if you look around you could build a new full suspension for under 2g that would go up and down just as well as a 5-7g bike.

This is what I like about MTBing and why I was so keen to throw myself down suicidal looking hill sides on my 456-evo despite it being a cheap bike.....yes I could have afforded better, yes I could've signed up to finance and yes I could've wielded the credit card to keep up with the Joneses but what's the point when it's just a depreciating asset that will get hammered downhill.
It's why I love bands like Solid, Radon, Rose, YT, Canyon etc.....top spec components hanging on decent frames sent straight to your door, love the direct sales model.

I do think those Yeti frames are lush though!! I'd not buy one but it doesn't stop me thinking oh that's a lush looking bike! Same as a sports car if you get my meaning? I appreciate it, but I'd put my pennies else where!

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'A 3k bike is 95% as good as a 7k+ bike' is the saying that gets trotted out a lot in these situations.

Aye, and an ape is 95% the same as a human, but it's the extra 5% that makes all the difference.

er, no, no you couldn't!

i've got a 6.5k bike, i built it from new parts, and it has the best of everything on it. The parts cost 3.5k, the frame the other 3k.

You might be able, we some lucky ebaying etc, be able to find the same parts second hand and hence build the same spec bike for a bit less (second hand XTR di2 anyone?? but you ain't going to build it for £2k to anything like the same spec!

You have totally missed the point.

It wasn't that you could build a used bike for +/- £2k to the same spec as a £5-7k bike, it was the point that a well spec'd, used £2k bike is just as fast as your £7k vanity project, that probably gets used to about 40% of its potential...

Aye, and an ape is 95% the same as a human, but it's the extra 5% that makes all the difference.

You're just kidding yourself if you believe that. The extra 5% must make all the difference when you're wobbling around the outside of a 10ft double as you are too scared to hit it, along with 99% of the other riders on here.

Classic case of it being the wizard, not the wand. But hey, if people want to buy £7,8,9k bikes to do that, fine, crack on.

Aye, and an ape is 95% the same as a human, but it's the extra 5% that makes all the difference.

There are still people winning or competitive on aluminium frames that cost half that of their carbon competitors.

I call bullshit on your analogy, people that say this are those people trying to make themselves feel better about spending 7 to 10 grand but don't understand what actual performance is and quantify it.

it actually screams function and racing and winning and being sorted in the geometry

It's sorted for Richie Rude - and then you can spend 3.6 grand on learning to ride around his taste in bikes.

Sheep.

Classic case of it being the wizard, not the wand. But hey, if people want to buy £7,8,9k bikes to do that, fine, crack on.

I will, thanks.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/saturday-is-the-new-friday-new-bike-day

that a well spec'd, used £2k bike is just as fast as your £7k vanity project

wrecker - Member
that a well spec'd, used £2k bike is just as fast as your £7k vanity project

Besides being patently untrue (for me at least), it's none of anybody's business what anyone rides. If someone can afford a nice bike - good for them. Their level of riding is utterly and completely irrelevant.

Nicely put fella!!

I'm not sure it is -

If I was offered to choose between a 1300 quid Aluminium frameset, with a 64 degree head angle, a 470mm reach, a 335mm bottom bracket height and a 442mm chanstay lenght

vs

A 3700 quid Carbon wonder bike with a 66 degree head angle, a 430mm reach, a 350mm bb height and a 430mm chainstay length....

I could take a pretty good guess at which bike would be objectively faster down a decent black/DH run.

In actual fact...looking at the numbers... my aluminium Reign is lower, slacker and longer than an SB6.

It's sorted for Richie Rude - and then you can spend 3.6 grand on learning to ride around his taste in bikes.

Sheep.

Besides being patently untrue (for me at least), it's none of anybody's business what anyone rides. If someone can afford a nice bike - good for them. Their level of riding is utterly and completely irrelevant.
Vanity project? What a bunch of bollocks.

Then you are either an absolute ripper on a bike who should probably be in the Southern Hemisphere at the moment racing the EWS & Crankworx, or slightly delusional that for your average rider, the final 5% makes the difference, when you arn't even close to the limits of the bike.

Very few people need, use or even understand that level of performance. However that's not to say they shouldn't be able to want it or have it. That however, in reality is the driving force. Want. Nothing wrong with that at all.

If you honestly believe a good second hand £2k purchase is slower in reality for your average rider than a £7k enduro wonderbike, then good for you. If riding a £7k bike gives you pleasure from the spec'ing it to buying it, to looking at it in the shed & riding it, then also, good for you too - that is what it's all about.

Having a quick look of sub £2k bikes in this category used on Pinkbike includes; Reigns, Patrols, Capra's, Strives, Slashes, Remedys, Sights, Airdrops, Dune's, Process's, Mega's, Enduro's, etc. The list is endless.

None of which will have electric gears, but all of which will go around the jumps just as fast 😉

Comparing two differently angled bikes at two different price points and saying the alloy one with downhill geo is better for downhill Vs the carbon trail bike is totally missing the point.

If you had all the same geometry numbers on the 7k wonder bike then I'd wager it would be quicker (or a bit nicer to ride) in the same pair of reasonably competent hands. How much quicker will vary.

I used to own very xc oriented bikes when i started out. At the pinnacle of my xc bikes was a £2300 (at list) hardtail. It replaced a very nicely specced hardtail built with XT and other nice bits. The new bike was way quicker in my not especially fit or skilled hands. Lightweight and well equipped made a difference to how quick i could climb and how it behaved in twisty singletrack. Each calorie burned went further so so did I.

Even if it isn't quicker MAMIBA (Middle Aged Man in Body Armour) is buying it with his bonus and helping fund the trickle down of that tech to bikes the younger or less financially suicidal rider can afford. So I say go for it MAMIBA. In fact buy more of them and i don't give a crap if you can't ride for toffee so long as you're not a rude and inconsiderate trail user.

I'd love a few of the skills of some people who ride [s]crappier / or [/s]better[s] kit[/s] than me but I don't have the time with a family and a hectic work life to spend the hours riding i would need to acquire them. I don't get jealous I am happy for those who can dedicate the time to learn for their accomplishments.

There is a whiff on this thread of people being insecure about what they ride/jealous of the financially more fortunate rather than being happy they can out ride them. I'd rather ride a wheelie bin well than a super bike badly but I'm comfy being in the middle. Middling skills and mid range kit seems an ok compromise for me (MAMIB - middle aged man in baggies).

Then you are either an absolute ripper on a bike who should probably be in the Southern Hemisphere at the moment racing the EWS & Crankworx, or slightly delusional that for your average rider, the final 5% makes the difference, when you arn't even close to the limits of the bike.

If you honestly believe a good second hand £2k purchase is slower in reality for your average rider than a £7k enduro wonderbike, then good for you.

Used vs. new is such a pointless comparison. Yes obviously it's cheaper.

butterbean
You have totally missed the point.

Sorry but no i haven't.

You said "A £2k bike is as fast as a £7k bike up and down hill"

and i said "No, No it isn't"

Yes i completely agree we are talking small margins, but they are definitely margins that exist, and in fact, can be critical.
Let me give you an example on my Dune. Because it has an (expensive) carbon frame and (expensive)carbon components, it's light. This means i can sacrifice a bit of mass to put on strong tyres. I run Super Gravity casings, yet the overall mass of my 180mm bike is still sub 30lb. This means it goes uphill ok, but i can smash down the other side and not worry about punctures. In fact, despite hitting all the uk bike parks, and spending the summer in the Alps, i've had a total of zero punctures. That makes my rides very low stress indeed. In fact, all i now do is spend the time waiting for my buddies to fix their punctures... 😉

Then lets take the suspension. I have a 180mm Lyrik on the front with a custom tune, and a X2, again with a custom tune on the back, and the is no doubt what so ever, that when the going gets rough, this bike just walks away from anything but a full on DH bike. You are more than welcome to come along and see if you can keep up on say a 140mm bike with bargain basement suspension btw.

Then lets take the Di2 - yes it's fairly small difference, but there are two major advantages for me. 1) Pack the bike into it's bike bag for overseas travel and i simply disconnect and remove the rear derailure. At my destination it plugs back into place and all the gears work without any adjustment. And without a pull cable that gets full of mud, it stays working in our terrible muddy winters. Then in Les Arcs last summer i bashed the derailure on a large rock, and the automatic protection system kicked in, and saved the unit from damage. One press of a button and it reset and off we went again. On a conventional unit that would have been the end of my day.

Add in the Saint brakes with XTR levers for low finger loads for all day braking comfort, the 1by extended range transmission for low faff and high ground clearance, the 170mm dropper to allow me to really move about on the bike, the strong stiff wheels and this makes the bike fast, everywhere, up or down.

Now, i'm not saying someone else can't go faster than me, of course they can, i'm not Richie Rude after all, but for ME, riding MY bike, the 7k bike is significantly faster, easier to ride, safer to ride and more fun to ride than a £2k bike.

So do you [i]need[/i] a 7k bike, no of course not, but is a 7k bike better than a 2k one, HECK YEAH! 😆

As the owner of a reasonably expensive bike (so appreciate the irony in me saying this) but there is an awful lot of purchase justification going on 🙂

I'm under no illusion that I could probably go just as quick on a two grand out of the box Capra as I could on my previous, similar travel bike which probably cost retail 3 times as much.

I didn't/don't want a Capra though, so I don't ride one. I'm not going to try & justify my bike being 'quicker' though, just because it's got some fancier components on it.

Then lets take the suspension. I have a 180mm Lyrik on the front with a custom tune, and a X2, again with a custom tune on the back, and the is no doubt what so ever, that when the going gets rough, this bike just walks away from anything but a full on DH bike. You are more than welcome to come along and see if you can keep up on say a 140mm bike with bargain basement suspension btw.

I'd take you up on that, got a friend with a 2 grand Jeffsey who is a total pinner, i'm sure he'd lend it to me, or probably have a go himself....

The thing is Max, it's the geometry and suspension tune that counts - all of which you can get than the crazy money that you spent on that Mondraker. If you're into really long and slack, there are other cheaper options like Pole - even the Geometron.

If you had all the same geometry numbers on the 7k wonder bike then I'd wager it would be quicker (or a bit nicer to ride) in the same pair of reasonably competent hands. How much quicker will vary.

Some of the Giant EWS team have been running Alumnium Anthems this year at Rotura, that I have been told - is for feel reasons.

Again, carbon doesn't automatically make it better - you can make a bad expensive carbon bike that lacks contact patch feel.

There is a reason why Moto GP teams seem to have given up on carbon frames and gone back to twin spar aluminium frames for the time being.

even the Geometron

You're just kidding yourself if you believe that. The extra 5% must make all the difference when you're wobbling around the outside of a 10ft double as you are too scared to hit it, along with 99% of the other riders on here.

A 10ft double is the last place you need a fancy bike - a rigid dirt jump bike costing peanuts will fly just as well as a £10k carbon superbike. But a sequence of steep rocky drops and chutes and turns under a less than brilliant pilot will show the benefit of something with great geometry and suspension - and if you want it to feel fast on flatter or uphill stuff you might like it to be light too, and that gets expensive.

Some of the Giant EWS team have been running Alumnium Anthems this year at Rotura, that I have been told - is for feel reasons.

Again, carbon doesn't automatically make it better - you can make a bad expensive carbon bike that lacks contact patch feel.

Long story short, these bikes and frames exist. People buy them, the ones to watch out for are the ones who make up their judgements based on what somebody is riding. Next up are those with a laminated list of excuses about how if the bike was..... Different it would all be much faster.

Tom_W1987
The thing is Max, it's the geometry and suspension tune that counts

Not if you want to be quick UP and DOWN.

And that's the thing, you can make a cheap bike do one thing well. A slack, but heavy frame is going to be ok down hill, but a pig up hill. Expensive bikes are expensive because they manage the up/down compromise better! It's the old pick one from cheap / good / Robust thing again!

You could easily get an older DH bike, that would be faster than my Dune downhill, no doubt about it, but i'm going to enjoy watching you pedal it back up again 😆

Modern 'Enduro' bikes are amazing because to a large degree they are do it all, or at least, have nicely compromised on a set of attributes that make them fit a lot of riding. No, you aren't going to win an actual DH race, or an actual XC race for that matter, on one, but for everything else, they are very good indeed. Unfortunately, that wide based capability costs money.....