I have a 2014 Wilier road bike and a 2018 CX safely stored in my loft. If I took them out, re-assembled them, and rode them today, I assumed they would look - or at least the road bike would look - well out-dated. It seems that rim brakes have virtually disappeared from the road, and even internal cable routing has advanced massively to the point where cables aren't even visible.
MTBs, meanwhile, look radically different to what they looked when my 2009 Gary Fisher Big Sur got stolen in 2017 and I sold my Genesis Tarn in 2019.
Which of the bike genres is most different to what they were in, say, around 2010?
Road bikes I’d say.
My modern Aethos with my 90’s Joe Waugh.
Both ride very well 🙂
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I think they're still identifiable in terms of what they were.
In actual tech, I'd say road bikes have changed the most. Disc brakes, thru axles, electronic gears, more gears...
In looks, I'd go the other way - MTBs now look radically different to 15 years ago. LLS, 29", 1x; compared with the 2010 bike it looks very different. But the tech itself has actually not changed that much.
Have rim brakes disappeared on the road? Not up my end. My year 2014 bike is perfect, light/ stiff/ responsive/ comfortable, doesn't need extra braking... theres something cooler about older road bikes, modern bikes just seem a bit try-hard in comparison. It seems the road bike has gone through the biggest change in the last decade, more so them the mtb which is more of an evolution... but then I had mtb's 20 years ago that I preferred riding/owning than my modern mtb. An old retro bike that was perfect in its day is still nice to ride now, the roads are mostly still the same, maybe rougher- if you're not racing then the .37percent aero gain doesn't matter so much.
....oh, and I never looked at a cable in multi decades of riding and thought that the riding experience would be better if it could only disappear...
I’d say MTB has changed the most. They look very different now to what they did even ten years ago. Road bikes, at least to my eye, look fundamentally the same. Pretty much 90% of the changes the OP mentions for road also apply to MTB. Internal routing, gear changes, electronic shifting. Then you have dropper posts, a different wheel size, tyres being generally higher volume, built in storage, shorter stems, wider bars etc.
I'd say MTB has evolved the most by far over the last 10-15 years.
Road bikes have just got a bit faster and only really applies to racers and pros, everyone else will just take a minute or two longer to get to the next cafe stop. MTB's though have fundamentally changed to the point where they have redefined the type of riding a lot of people do. The focus on descending and Enduro-style riding has opened up far more terrain for the average rider whereas road is still on the same routes. I'd also say that E bike evolution has had a bigger effect on MTB's too, the effect on road riding mainly being on the utility and commuting side whereas MTB has spawned a whole different version of riding off-road.
This just celebrated its 10th Birthday on Friday.
Looks a bit short, and a bit steep compared to new stuff, but I wouldn’t say it was massively different. Still rides great…
"is" or "looks"?
Mtbs seek to have evolved more in terms.of geo, handling etc.
Since 2010? Tempted to say kid's bikes. Pre-Islabikes they were generally (in hindsight) somewhere between not very good and absolutely terrible. And great kid's bikes might do more for the long term benefit of cycling overall than any other bike apart from e-bikes?
I suppose that's another answer, e-bikes.. existed in 2010 but were rare and very basic compared to what we have now.
Of road and mountain bikes though, MTB is more different now imo. All the tech aside road bikes still fit and handle similarly to those of 2010 ish, they do pretty much the same job. MTBs are very different to ride though, mainly the wheelsize and geometry, now can do quite a different job for the average rider.
In 1994 my mate bought a Kona explosif and a colnago road bike. There were no xc fs bikes at the xc world championships that year and the winner had a flex stem
Road bike has evolved. But I bet his new canyon has basically the same geometry. The wheels are the same size. The contact point are in basically the same place. The new bike has disc brakes and better gears.
If he replaced the MTB ist would just be completely different. I can’t even reach the bars on his Kona. The grips are low, along way forward and close together. A new MTB would have wider bars set way higher and closer. The wheel base would be just so much longer. The wheels would be a different size. It wouldn’t would have a dropper post. If it was fs that’s another revolution
Road bikes have evolved MTB are about as distant as they could be. That’s 1994 until 2024
Yesterday I was trying to get AI to imagine how a roadie cyclist would evolve through the millennia. Not necessarily looking good I'm afraid.
MTB.
Road bikes have changed but the changes in MTB are changing the sport. My current xc bike is far more capable than the 6" trail bike I had 15 years ago.
MTB by far.
I have an 11year old Nicolai Helius and a Geometron G1.
The Helius is an amazing bike and I'm sure in the right hands could handle most things. But the G1 let's me ride much more harder terrain and is pretty much bomb proof. Each Alps trip the Helius would need serious tlc when back home. The G1 needs a clean 😀. The tweaks to geometry have been awesome in the last 10years.
I also have a 2010 langster.. single speed, but its silhouette isn't that far from a modern road bike (in fact it's better, none of that swoopy top tube nonsense 😉).
Road bikes are slowly adopting mtb tech, discs, err I may have run out of examples embarassingly quickly there...
tomhowardFull Member
This just celebrated its 10th Birthday on Friday
Looks lovely but apart from the frame, which bits are 10 years old?
carbon rims potentially period correct but there’s two other very obvious upgrades (1x12 and full wireless) that have removed the two things that usually really date bikes from that era.
Frame, saddle, headset & wheels.
Original cranks & BB are still in use elsewhere, still have the original fork, shock & brakes as spares
Only ‘modern’ thing that won’t work with it is a Boost rear wheel.
Meh Road bikes may have acquired discs and slightly wider tubeless tyres but the geometry isn't a million miles different to that of 20 odd year old bikes and only cafe cruising bellends sneer at rim brakes on a Sunday spin, a 2014 road bike is still plenty modern enough, my own is a 2015 scultura and it's modern equivalent is comparatively piss poor VFM.
As for MTBs, yeah I'd say the general trend has been for lower/longer/slacker in recent years, to help handling. but that doesn't make older bikes unrideable, I was keeping up with mates on newer, nicer bikes than me over the weekend just fine on my 9 year old Stumpy.
I would like some posher/newer bikes, but I'm happy enough on an old nags I currently own for a couple of years yet, I'm also not a big fan of all modern 'innovations' the aero benefits of completely hidden cables mean sweet FA to the likes of me, I look after my own bikes and if I have to disassemble the heaset to replace a mech cable then Trek and specialized can **** right off, when the time comes I'm warming to the idea of a Road logic disc or an 853 Rourke frame set on the road. Next MTB feels like it might be a Bird just on a VFM basis.
Cracked out a 20 year old colnago a couple of years ago. Discs are a bit nicer as are wider tires (although new narrow tires are better grippier and more supple than the old ones). Beyond that, the experience was pretty similar to my newer bike. To be honest, it felt better than my carbon condor. If I wasn’t worried about the corrosion I’d still happily have it as my go to bike!
I tried riding my 12 year old trail bike on mellow XC trails. It was awful, I swear it was trying to kill me!
My 2001 road bike took 25c tyres, was made of steel and had caliper brakes. The difference between that and my current road bike is it's made of carbon, internal routing, disks and 30c tyres.
None of which actually make that much difference. It's a bit stiffer, it's a chunk lighter, stops a bit better and grips a bit more.
I've put on weight, so the over all weight has gone up.
Caliper brakes just aren't that bad. In the wet I just rode slower. I don't ride in bunches/ chain gangs so I didn't actually make that much difference. In the dry ( aka when I'm on a road bike) there just isn't that much in it.
The internal routing is rattling when I hit bumps, which is annoying. I average 15mph. There is no way the aero is doing better any good.
Tyres are more absorbent, but the roads are more trashed.
My in-laws are 130 miles away. It's easily the hardest I do in any year. I've ridden down one or two times most years over the last 10 years. The difference in times can be put down to a) how much I've ridden b) how long it takes to eat and get served at a couple of places on the way.
So for me, road bikes are still a great way to wander the countryside.
Cheshire Cat sportive today... Loads of people still using rim brakes. Not me mind 🙂
All the progression in road bikes has come from mountain bike technology. Rapidfire was MTB, N/W is MTB, discs are MTB, tubeless is MTB, and so on and on. Without all that, I don't think road bikes would look anything like they do now.
MTBs change the most
The road world is still getting hung up on disk brakes 25 years after we had all the same arguments in MTB
All the progression in road bikes has come from mountain bike technology
Electronic, and notably wireless shifting, is a road bike innovation. It's not new though - Mavic.
Rode my 2013 Defy Advanced SL with full manual Dura Ace 9000 and 30c tyres (under DA callipers no less). I don't feel the need to upgrade. Any road ride in the rain with disc confirms I don't want them. I like my bikes silent.
I think MTB's have changed the most fundamentally, riding a ~2000 bike and a modern one is very different because of the geometry.
You could make a long/low/slack rigid bike with rim brakes and 26" wheels and it'd be closer to a modern bike than a bike from ~2008 with disk brakes and tubeless. The geometry has been more impactful than the tech.
Road bikes, not so much. Yes new bikes have a lot of new tech, but they're still fundamentally the same as they were 50 years ago (sometime around the late 70's when gears, butted tubesets etc were settling down). You can still turn up to a clubrun and there'll be someone with downtube shifters and it won't impact their ability to keep up.
Whereas can you imagine turning up to a ride (excluding the retrobike forum) on a bike half that age and it not being a rim smashing, puncture fest where you get dropped on every vaguely technical trail?
My road bike is now 20 years old, and was an older model in the range in 2004. The only feature that makes me want to change it is the inability to run ~27mm tyres and mudguards. Like most racing bikes it's either/or, 27's in summer and 25's and guards in winter.
The road world is still getting hung up on disk brakes 25 years after we had all the same arguments in MTB
Some of it is legitimate, I had two incidents on club runs last year caused by the disparity between rims and discs. One crash where the guy in front came to a stop at a junction very abruptly, fair enough we were obviously stropping, but he slowed very abruptly then presumably intended to roll to the line where I was expecting more constant deceleration using the distance available. The other resulted in several people going sideways when the ride leader (really should have known better and just slowed and done a turn further down the hill) braked very heavily on a descent for a turning they'd almost missed. It's not a good reason to not get disk brakes now that the cat is out of the bag. But I think MTB'ers are quick to dismiss the fact that riding in a peloton is different to riding an MTB solo and brakes that are quicker than the people behind can react are definitely something to consider. Because a big part of road riding is riding 1/2 a wheel off the bike in front, there is no "slow down so you can stop in the distance you can see".
The road world is still getting hung up on disk brakes 25 years after we had all the same arguments in MTB
Possibly. But in the pro peloton, getting dropped for a wheel change that takes twice as long as it used to means water bottles have become more sticky. Not such an issue with MTBs.
Road geometry really hasn't changed for decades. Hiding cables makes them cleaner but much less adjustable (not an issue for a pro who has a mechanic, back to the days of quill stem adjustability woes). Electronic shifting is a nice to have (fabulous on TT bikes), but top mechanical is really no worse. Wider tyres are great on the UK's terrible roads, but unnecessary on that Mallorca training camp.
I guess it's tricky to advance road bikes too much due to the UCI regulations. As soon as a company brings out something radical or a bit controversial it doesn't seem long before the UCI is banning it.
I know in the past Specialized and Cannondale have done concept bikes but at this time when even the biggest manufacturers are struggling financially how many of them can waste money doing these concept bikes and even if they did make them how many would they sell to make it viable?
I guess it’s tricky to advance road bikes too much due to the UCI regulations. As soon as a company brings out something radical or a bit controversial it doesn’t seem long before the UCI is banning it.
It's hard to see 'what might have been' because I'm not an ergonomics/bike design expert, but the alternative take might be - it's amazing how right road (race) bike geometry has been since, say, the 1970s.
Everything else (brake type, tyre clearance, handlebar width, crank length) is window dressing in comparison to frame geometry I think.
MTB definitely for me.
My carbon road bike is 10 years old, and with the way I have it set up it looks pretty modern and sleek apart from a few things (rim brakes, external cabling, slightly curved fork). It doesn't perform drastically differently to the modern bikes of a similar spec level when I was shopping around for a replacement last year. The newer ones maybe felt a bit more direct and stiff, with a bit more comfort from wider tires (mine fits 28s if you do the requisite sacrifices and prayers correctly) but I decided it was not worth a several grand update in the end and just got a new groupset.
I only started mountain biking in 2019/20-ish so very much in the era of the "modern MTB". However even I notice a massive difference. I swapped my 2021 trail bike with a mate's old 26" Santa Cruz Blur and I have to say I hated it haha. It felt so short and janky and unstable compared to my bike - and looked a lot more industrial too. I would probably get used to it if it was mine but every modern bike I've tried feels wayyyy different to older ones I have had a shot of.
I guess it’s tricky to advance road bikes too much due to the UCI regulations. As soon as a company brings out something radical or a bit controversial it doesn’t seem long before the UCI is banning it.
I know in the past Specialized and Cannondale have done concept bikes but at this time when even the biggest manufacturers are struggling financially how many of them can waste money doing these concept bikes and even if they did make them how many would they sell to make it viable?
The 'concept' bikes were always a bit of an oddity, because they only selectively ignored the rules, usually just the ones around tube profiles. If you wanted to build a bike to win a race with no rules it would look like this:
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MTB's are less constrained by the UCI rules because they're already close to optimal (as far as we know) to stay in control. Which is why the UCI keep road bikes 'bike' shaped, bikes like Boardman and Obree's were faster, but sacrificed control (same reason things like sphinx and TT bars are banned).
The road world is still getting hung up on disk brakes 25 years after we had all the same arguments in MTB
I think because the benefits are less clear-cut and (relative to the benefits anyway) the drawbacks a little more obvious.
Plus the use case is different, I love the basic Deore hydraulic discs on my MTB, silent, predictable, powerful braking. I've never managed to replicate this on my road or gravel bikes though, probably because I brake so little and so infrequently on these bikes. I know this issue isn't just me either. Hence why people might still not like them.
Agree with the general sentiment though, most changes on my MTBs over the years have been immediately and clearly improvements (V-Brakes to discs, improved suspension, going tubeless with bigger volume/lighter tyres, going 29" from 26" etc). Basically none of my recent road bikes have been any better than my old Cannondale CAAD 9, although I've not had enough time on my new carbon Basso with 28mm tyres to compare, but I doubt I'll notice much difference. In fact the biggest change I've noticed to my road bikes over the years is just using higher quality tyres and waxing the chains!
I think I agree with crazy-legs, in terms of tech, road bikes have changed much more (even if they've adopted a bunch of them from mountain bikes). But looks wise, mountain bikes have changed more.
I'm more road than MTB orientated.
I really love the look of the older bikes. The thing I do appreciate about modern road bikes; clearance for wider tyres. I loved my 2011 SuperSix Evo but you couldn't fit above 23c in the back without rubbing (the dropouts weren't that well alinged either!).
On our club rides, there's an equal mix of rim and disc, old and new bikes.
Any road ride in the rain with disc confirms I don’t want them. I like my bikes silent.
My rim braked bikes and my disc braked are pretty much on a par with noise.
Just different noises, one is an intermittent grinding the other is a brief honk.
The road world is still getting hung up on disk brakes 25 years after we had all the same arguments in MTB
I saw quite a good interview with a good amatuer roadie about discs. It wasn't so much the benefits he questioned but the cost of changing bikes and the absence of good rim braked wheels now. He was quite calm and clear. I think road bikes enjoyed a huge run of massive compatibility until we hit disc brakes. MTB the sands have shifted constanly since my first bike in the late 1980s.
I saw quite a good interview with a good amatuer roadie about discs. It wasn’t so much the benefits he questioned but the cost of changing bikes and the absence of good rim braked wheels now. He was quite calm and clear. I think road bikes enjoyed a huge run of massive compatibility until we hit disc brakes. MTB the sands have shifted constanly since my first bike in the late 1980s.
Swings and roundabouts though. "The cost of changing bikes" is a red herring, either you did need a new bike, or you didn't and any cost was >£0 whether it was a frame, or complete bike wasn't necessary. Racers with a nice set of race wheels aside it was just a case of did you want to spend £300 more for disc brakes on a new bike. Especially with modern wheels and tyres. Does it matter if your old V shaped 23mm wide carbon wheels aren't compatible, if U-shaped 28mm wide, 60mm rims are demonstrably quicker anyway. IF you can justify a need for the old wheels, then that same justification says buy new ones.
I reckon MTBs had their rapid evolution 2005-2015, and differently from about 2000-2005 whereas with road bikes it was 2010-2020. The thing is that riding along a road has not fundamentally changed, so where the bike has evolved it has only had a small effect on your ride. Whereas the evolution of the MTB has really changed the sport. What people ride now is really very different from what we rode back then, although I'm sure someone will come along and say that everything's the same.
I don't see that the cost of changing bikes is a factor. You just ride what you have until you think it's time for a change THEN you decide wether or not your new bike should have discs.
Whish I could work out posting pics
When I put my 1996 GT LTS next to my 2023 Transition Spire the difference is staggering!
The road world is still getting hung up on disk brakes 25 years after we had all the same arguments in MTB
The road world isn't hung up on discs - do you see rim brakes in any professional bike race?
The only people getting hung up on discs are rose tinted/sentimental luddites and cheapskates. It's just like how 26" then 27.5" wheels have taken years to die out in the mtb world. People cling to what they know and are comfortable with until the manufactures stop making stuff and then they have no option but to change.
I would say that road bikes have possibly changed more than MTBs. Everything on a road bike apart from the wheel diameter and the geo has changed, but it's not necessarily particularly noticeable. Everything is aerodynamically optimised, tyres are massively wider, rims are massively wider, frames are wider, seatstay bridges are gone, tubular tyres are basically dead, rim brakes are dead, full electronic/wireless shifting is the norm, sprint/climbing shift buttons are the norm, thru axles, wider hub spacing, full internal brake hose routing is standard, sloping top tubes are standard, one piece bar/stems, stubby saddles, zero setback seatposts, super narrow bars, power meters everywhere, 130BCD is dead, cranks are shorter, cassettes are much wider, and of course the bikes are heavier - quite a bit heavier in some cases.
Definitely MTBs. It's the continual tweaking of geometry that's the biggest change in MTBing compared to road bikes. Even the past decade or so has seen fairly noticeable changes in geometry, etc. Quite a contrast between Mrs a11y's previous SC Tallboy LTc (released in 2012) vs her current Deviate Highlander 1 (2020+):
Everything is aerodynamically optimised, tyres are massively wider, rims are massively wider, frames are wider, seatstay bridges are gone, tubular tyres are basically dead, rim brakes are dead,
There are a lot of changes but most of these things are minor. People have gone from 23c to 28c or maybe 30c. Whereas on MTBs people have gone from 1.9" to 2.8" and bigger wheels at the same time. A key difference in MTBs is that handling technique has also changed. I had to really adjust my technique on my 2023 Reactor compared to what I was used to.
Whereas the evolution of the MTB has really changed the sport. What people ride now is really very different from what we rode back then, although I’m sure someone will come along and say that everything’s the same.
I'm not going to say everything's the same, but I think for most people, they're riding the same stuff[0] - just taking different lines through things. Some of the features have gotten bigger at downhill bike parks, perhaps - but that's not particularly representative of the norm.
[0] except trees. Can't get giant handlebars through them now.
People cling to what they know
Or have so many road bikes that upgrading would be prohibitive 😉 I quite fancy a nice Specialized Aethos - it's the first bike that has tempted me from the Giant(s). That it has disks is not a factor. I won't be changing the race bike any time soon, either. Nor the fixed wheel road bikes.
But on a wet ride two weeks ago. I have never heard noise like this disc brakes from multiple bikes. Never! My alloy rims made no such sounds 🙂
But on a wet ride two weeks ago. I have never heard noise like this disc brakes from multiple bikes. Never!
Don't like noisy brakes? Luddite! 😎
theres something cooler about older road bikes, modern bikes just seem a bit try-hard in comparison.
Currently in Italy.... The old boys on their old steel framed bikes and baggy tops look much cooler than the try hard lycra boys with their Oakley glasses and carbon frames.
no modern roadbike will ever come close to this.
https://www.speedbicycles.ch/velo/532/colnago_master_piu_1989.html
10 years is an odd time frame in the mtb world. It means we are looking at 2014 bikes. (I know, where did the years go).
That was a time when all three wheel sizes were represented. 1x drivetrains were around but not ubiquitous. Droppers were commonplace but often not supplied OEM. Geo might have been on the cramped size by modern standards but they still handled pretty much like a modern bike, just not quite as good. Pikes or 34s were up front, shocks with climb switches on the rear, tyres were tubeless and generally worked.
The first MTB I bought new was in 2014 (Bird Aeris) and I'd not have too many (or any) complaints to riding that today aside from the lack of water bottle holder.
Go back another 5 years though, and everything is different. I'm sure someone will find an ahead of its time outlier but 2009 bikes as a whole look fairly laughable by todays standards. About the only thing that has stood the test of time is the brakes of that age arent much different to todays.
But on a wet ride two weeks ago. I have never heard noise like this disc brakes from multiple bikes
I had this. Then I changed rotors - went to ice-tech, now silence. I think it's the crappy stamped rotors that are ubiquitous.
