[Closed] Bike clothing = poor value and poor design?

Is it me, or is some riding kit poor value and poorly designed compared to a lot of other sports kit

There's poorly designed and expensive kit in any sport, I don't think cycling has particularly more or less.

I was out running with a couple of guys yesterday who were on a 5 mile rant about Inov8 shoes and how they don't last and are to expensive. They then moved to Salomon clothing that's marketed as being the best trail running kit in the business and just falls apart.

There's poor kit in any sport.

i have never really got on with any cycling clothing. always thought it very expensive and designed for odd shaped people. i tend to use well made outdoor clothing.
Keela and Columbia are 2 brands that i find good value and quality.

There’s poorly designed and expensive kit in any sport, I don’t think cycling has particularly more or less.

+1

We could talk about those RRPs (which I'm sure you didn't pay) being poor VFM compared to other sports. But then you didn't pay them so why would we bother?

Salomon clothing that’s marketed as being the best trail running kit in the business and just falls apart.

Ha. Never had their clothing but I did buy some of their walking boots and they fell apart.

I do often find myself wondering who tests the products out and that I could do a better job. Like recently bought a pair of Madison shorts with the feature ‘lots of pockets’ why oh why would a cyclist need pockets on the back… where you sit?!?

I bought some Endura 3/4 length shorts about 2yrs ago but have only worn them three or four times. There's a seam right wear the shorts go over my knee and after about an hour and a half of riding it rubs the skin off!

recently bought a pair of Madison shorts with the feature ‘lots of pockets’ why oh why would a cyclist need pockets on the back… where you sit?!?

Loads of folk apparently. I've seen comments on here with folk complaining about a lack of pockets.  I don't mind them - it gives an additional layer of material.

Good example of a design/feature choice though and how the things that some folk hate, others love.

I will occasionally find some very good clothing that inevitably gets worn all the time and I dread the day I need to try and replace it but can't. The good stuff is rarely the expensive stuff in my experience.

I've got loads or kit that rarely gets worn because it's rubbish. I also don't often buy expensive clothing because I know it's not often worth it, I would be happy to pay a premium price if I knew I was getting a premium product.

I know it doesn't suit everyone but most of my favourite riding kit is Lidl /Aldi.

My experience with more expensive, Bike specific brands is not good. Endura shorts in small, medium and large which are all the same size and way too baggy so they rub the top tube, boardman bib shorts where the chamois seems to sit halfway up my back. BBB and Altura winter gloves which bulky, and don't keep your hands warm or dry. My Aldi gloves were a quarter of the price and so much better

Totally agree OP. Brands I've written off because of shoddy and expensive clothing include;

Altura / Endura = poor materials, stitching that comes undone after 1 ride, sizing all over the place. The exception being my two pairs of Endura Humvee shorts that will probably survive a nuclear explosion and are still going strong after 8 years.

Madison = good value (in the sales) but poor fit. Way, way to big for any given size. I'm a textbook size 32 waist and their size small (supposed to be for 28-30 waists) hangs off me.

Morvelo = used to be really, really good. I still have jerseys of theirs going back years. Properly nice material and great fit. Not sure what happened but the material quality went to hell over night and the fit ballooned out. Stopped buying after that.

All the Italian designed, Italian made kit I've bought has been excellent, but obviously costs a lot more. For MTB duties, where there is always the risk of crashing, I'd generally avoid pricey kit.

Agree with OP. Badly placed labels and seams are a constant nuisance. I'm sure some stuff is designed and sold without even basic 'testing'. Even 'top' brands make basic errors. Some recent Assos bib shorts have irritating seams and labels. Velcro on the waist band of mtb shorts is particularly stupid, given that it destroys any other material it comes into contact with. Ground Effect clothing is a bit expensive, but you at least get the impression that the people who design it have tried cycling in it. Specialized Dri-release 3/4 trail top is also a winner. Keela Roadrunner pants also work well.

Yeah pockets are needed, but bum pockets?! You're going to be sitting on the contents all day surely?

Is it me, or is some riding kit poor value and poorly designed compared to a lot of other sports kit?

Not just other sports but MTB kit in comparison to the boom in roadie kit makes us look like mugs by comparison. While you can buy some nicely made and cut kit, the vast majority of it is invariably 100% polyester, and cut to fit where it touches and most of it isn't even that well put together, and it's mega pricey Even the recent launch of Rapha kit...all of it baggy dull uninspired monochrome pajama tops.

Yeah pockets are needed, but bum pockets?! You’re going to be sitting on the contents all day surely?

Nah, back pockets are generally to the side a bit, unless you have a massive saddle it doesn't contact the pockets. I ride a lot with my wallet in my back pocket and have never had an issue with it.

I don't spend too much on (mtb) riding gear apart from bibs/under shorts, as it all just gets wrecked on the MTB. I'm a fat sweaty bastard and nothing works that well but I do generally find that running/walking makes are much better than actual cycling stuff for wicking/drying.

Road bike gear is different though, stuff works much better than MTB gear, and I'm happy to spend a bit more as it doesn't get covered in shit.

Design flaws and weird sizing can be sidestepped by buying in shops rather than on line, which might be inconvenient and more expensive and reduces choice, but helps to retain LBSs.
Its the sudden change in quality of materials/stitching that bugs me. One minute shorts/gloves/jackets by x,y or z are bombproof, the next purchase, cough and they fall to bits!

Here's my current gripe - Just bought a Rivelo top, which is nice and fits pretty well. However it is marketed as "Made with bamboo blended fabric to aid wicking and anti-odour performance"... And it stank on ride 1. Clearly I play my part in that, but it amplifies any mild stink of mine where the £10 Ron Hill running tops that I've been wearing regularly for something like 9 years don't (those riding down wind of me may disagree)

@nickc - you are right, I perhaps should have titled this 'MTB kit' is poor value.

My Galibier bibs x 2 are brilliant in fit and detail compared to my Endura bibs, and better value.

I also feel that the Madison kit I have is built to a specification, but not ridden or tested to highlight issues.

It is some of the smaller brands that seem to get it right more often...?

running/walking makes are much better than actual cycling stuff for wicking/drying

Same, nearly all of my baselayers and commuting tops are running tops.

I wonder if the baselayer wicking thing is due to the fashion for huge great printed logos on everything? It must change what fabric is used and how that fabric performs.

I perhaps should have titled this ‘MTB kit’ is poor value.

Yep, all my road cycling kit is great value and well designed. Mostly wear Rapha core stuff and for example my long sleeved core jersey was around £80 about 5 years ago and gets worn 3 times a week from October to May and it still looks like new and fits and functions perfectly.

Nah, back pockets are generally to the side a bit, unless you have a massive saddle it doesn’t contact the pockets. I ride a lot with my wallet in my back pocket and have never had an issue with it.

If the Madison shorts in question are anything like mine, you aren’t getting a wallet in there.

I’ve pretty much written off Endura, which is a bit crap as I’d like to support the local company. However I’ve got one t-shirt which is nice but a little big, bought a base layer in the same size and almost had to get cut out if it (despite buying larger than the sizing guide). Then it just seems 50:50 if your kit is just going to fall apart anyway

Mostly wear Rapha core stuff and for example my long sleeved core jersey was around £80 about 5 years ago and gets worn 3 times a week from October to May and it still looks like new and fits and functions perfectly.

Rapha Core kit is great, I've gradually moved almost all of my road kit to Rapha (mostly Core) via a bit of patient shopping on ebay.  Fits well, quality, aesthetics and performance is spot on, so worth paying the premium over the lower cost kit.

I struggle more with mtb kit as seem to sit between medium and large with a lot of the manufacturers, so stuff is often a little too tight or a bit baggy.  Most of the Royal kit I've had in the past has been pretty poorly cut.

those riding down wind of me may disagree

It's a great incentive to ride faster.

Morvelo = used to be really, really good. I still have jerseys of theirs going back years. Properly nice material and great fit. Not sure what happened but the material quality went to hell over night and the fit ballooned out. Stopped buying after that.

Pretty sure Morvelo were sold a while ago, that might be something to do with it. Think some of the people originally involved are now running Overland.

Endura and Madison make kit that looks OK and I'd consider OK-ish value, but the fit is abysmal and quality so-so. Fox fits OK unless you have long legs but the quality is abysmal and way overpriced. I can't understand how brands can get fit/sizing so wrong. I converted to 7Mesh about 5 years ago and haven't looked back. Yes it's pricey, but the fit is as close to tailor-made as I've ever seen from a cycling clothing brand and the quality is beyond exceptional; my first pair of shorts from them are still going strong years later and they get hammered. If you want to have your cake and eat it, pay for it because you'll be eating said cake for a long, long time.

Another vote for the Rapha Core range. Just got the Core winter jacket and its darn near perfection for a jacket of this type. Fabric, cut, performance, construction quality and design is all exceptionally good for the price point- easily the most comfortable light winter jacket I've ever had. I've always used a lot of Gore Bike Wear products and equally found them to be also generally excellent at this mid-price range with fabrics, cut and no fripperies. I've never found that the cheaper brands are actually worth it as there always seems to be a design flaw or some aspect that makes it too uncomfortable on the bike.

Bike wear, especially shorts get a hard life compared to other outdoor garments. My new go to brand is Giordana for shorts, available from SwissIconic Factory outlet (25% off currently) - easily as good as some others brands at twice the price. Castelli/ Sportful I've found fit and performance to be exceptional but not immune to premature stitching wear. Anything Assos I've ever had has been both flawless and incredible long wearing so well worth the outlay... 50% sale territory from now on admittedly.

Seems to be a lot of hate for Endura.

In my experience the gloves fit well, but don't last.

Have been happy with the Singletrack shorts.

The real piss take in MTB is Jerseys. Nothing technical, or sophisticated.

That said, no one forcing you to buy a 60 quid FOX Jersey. Decathlon and Mountain warehouse, maybe a fun one from Ugly Frog.

If we are opening the VFM door I'm calling out Sat Navs in general and Garmin in particular.

Top end Garmin costs nearly 3x a ruggedised smart phone, but it does less, the UI and firmware are balls and the screens are bobbins.

You might argue a £6k Santa Cruz is expensive for what it is, but at least it is good!

I have actually stopped buying MTB specific stuff apart from undershorts for all the reasons stated above. The only stuff that has survived is some 15+ year old Ground Effect kit which was expensive to start with and even that is no longer the quality it was originally.
Shorts ,you have to regard as consumables, they take an awful lot of hammer and replacing them regularly is reasonable. Tops and jackets should last a lot longer( unless you are a serial crasher) and fit decently.
I still haven't found any base layers that don't pong whatever wonder coating has been applied

Fit is a really subjective thing, especially within MTB clothing as some is on an almost roadie template and some is much baggier which won't suit the slimmer folks, to butcher the old wheelsize adage... "Pick an Clothing Brand and be a dick about it..."

I'm 6ft1, about 95kg, long of back, short-ish legs, big thighs and arse and compared to most cyclists big arms and shoulders. Trouser size is 34in and I'm a L/XL T-shirt.

In recent years I have got on well with Dakine (XL in tops and L in shorts) and just recently have got a pair of Madison shorts and Tech T type jersey which despite my sizing chart concerns fit well in the same sizes as Dakine.

DHB is always good for reasonably priced kit, but I find their sizing is small. XXL for my roadie jackets/bibs which is the biggest size they do I think.  Endura MTB jacket is an XL and hasn't fallen apart but I haven't had to wear/wash it too much yet, ask me again in March.

To be honest outside of gloves, I haven't had anything fall apart on me for ages, I do tend to wear the arse out of shorts every so often as I refuse to use a rear mudguard.

I don't generally pay full retail for clothing as i don't need the latest colours, dark blue, grey and black stuff is my go to.

The folk whinging about superfluous pockets...don't buy shorts with superfluous pockets, superfluous pocket advice there for you...

I know it doesn’t suit everyone but most of my favourite riding kit is Lidl /Aldi.

It's not about suiting everyone, I think it tends to suck really badly, the tights I had from aldi were shapeless and horrible, the cycling top I got from Lidl had the wicking ability of a plastic bag. I have no interest in buying from Ralpha, but kits got to be actual decent quality for the job, to be of any use.

Another question - how come reviews aren't picking this up?

Those Endura bibs I'm moaning about for example. The tests I've read online are totally glowing. Has not one tester noted the sewn in different foam pad right where *ahem* your manhood sits? Not one noticed the belly zip poorly finished and will slowly undo? That there is a seam from crotch to butt that is prominent enough to feel it by the end of a long ride?

ajt123
Free Member

Seems to be a lot of hate for Endura.

In my experience the gloves fit well, but don’t last.

Have been happy with the Singletrack shorts.

That's the Endura Paradox in a nutshell - you never know which version you're going to get

It’s not about suiting everyone, I think it tends to suck really badly,

+1. The chamois pad on a pair of Lidl longs migrates around as I'm riding. If I stand in the pedals the chamois may be between my arse and the saddle when I sit, maybe not. I've never had that with any other chamois containing bottoms before or since.

I say 'as I'm riding' but this items has been used about 3 times because it is so hopeless.

The thing is, we're a broad church, so many different types of riders/riding/conditions/climate/demands/needs etc. on here.

I tend to just find stuff that works FOR ME and stick with it, whether it's bike specific stuff or not (it's generally not tbh). I think some folk are a hell of a lot more precious/demanding about their kit too, if something doesn't work perfectly for me, I'm not gonna bin it and buy new tbh.

the weather we've had up here in october too, 15 degC and wet, that's a tough gig for any kit to keep you dry and be breathable. I always try and 'dress for the 2nd mile', ie be cold at first knowing I'm gonna warm up, rather than binning layers at the first climb.

Hmmm. I'm a tight-arse & while I will spend money where I can see the worth in it; such as £120 on running shoes without a second thought, I do struggle to spend a lot of money on cycling kit.

Maybe as a result of that my expectation for performance is a bit lower, but I am struggling to think of any of my cycling kit that doesn't work OK. And, funnily enough the things that do spring to mind as a bit niggly are on my more expensive kit - e.g, a popper on some £80 (RRP) TSG shorts that is so hard to undo it feels like the fabric will tear before the popper releases & the mesh on some Lusso bib shorts (again ~£80 RRP) wearing my nips ragged.

There's been a few comments about Madison which has surprised me. It was not long ago people were asking for jacket recommendations & almost every other suggestion was for a Madison one. I bought some bib liner shorts from them a couple of months ago & while they are too see-through to be worn on their own, the mesh does mean they are very cool in warm weather & they are among the most comfortable shorts I have; if not the most comfortable. Sizing was spot-on; my normal medium was perfect.
I also bought some Madison gloves that were reduced to a tenner & while they are a bit thick for height of summer wearing, they are great for spring & autumn & fit really well. Contrast that with the much more expensive 100% gloves I bought that fit very well, but had a really sharp bit (not sure what it was) sticking into the side of my hand on my first ride, which had to be cut out once home again.

I feel like a lot of kit is massively over-priced & not great value for money, so do tend to buy last seasons colours or end of line stock.

You do get rubbish gear across all sports, but it seems to me that MTB gear tends to be particularly prone to bad design, and I think that's because it tends to be at the cheaper end of the market. Sure you can get cheap roadie gear, but you can also get very expensive gear, which doesn't seem to exist in the MTB world, is that becuase people don't want to spend money on something that's going to get trashed, or that the benefits aren't as important as you're not cycling in the same position for hours on end.

For me, sizing is a nightmare.

Okay, I'm a freak with 48cm calves, but I can't be the only one with big legs... there is only a single type of knee pad that I can actually fit into, and I'll kill them eventually just by being slightly too big for them.

As for the rest, shorts aren't a problem, but jackets are a nightmare. I mean, if you're going to sell a XXL jacket, don't you expect the owner to have shoulders and/or a bit of a gut? I guess they're catering for that 6' 4" guy with a 28" waist, oh and very long legs, because they're pretty short too. I tend to have to buy mine from Mountain Warehouse, who can sell me a cycling jacket for £40 which I could probably bring a friend in, if needed that last years, if only they weren't all hi-viz orange or green. How can Troy Lee / Fox et all sell me a jersey in Xl that fits me fine, but a jacket in XXL thats about 4" narrower than my shoulders. Okay, I'm built like a 180cm Dwarf from Lord of the Rings, but shitfire.

although counterpoint to P-Jay...
what about people who are tall and skinny? I'm not even a weirdo outlyer, at 6'1 and borderline healthy weight/overweight; I'm always lamenting that M -> L -> XL only seems to give you more belly room, not getting longer legs or arms, or back panel.
Avoiding exposing a strip of lower back means I'm confined to cycling spcific gear, no generic running tops work on my body.

Muddy Fox mtb shorts. Used and abused for 18 months and just starting to look a but shabby. Paid about £20 for them. Just got 2 more for £22 from House of Fraser. Job done

“Pick an Clothing Brand and be a dick about it…”

This.

I've had Endura kit that was really well made and had loads of use. The high end Equipe road kit they did for a while was the match of anything I've seen - the shirt, short and winter gloves are just brilliant. But I've also had pair of 3/4's lycra shorts with seam thread like sandpaper and stuff that just fell apart.

I've a couple of pairs of Galibier gloves that are fantastic - The Ardenne Light and Elysee leather gloves are both superb and great value. But the Womens lycra shorts K bought went back as the worst fitting shorts she'd ever tried on. Apart from anything else the pad seemed to be in completely the wrong place.

Fox baggies work for me - expensive but good fabric and fit well and last. Most of their riding shirts seem to just be massively overpriced nylon t-shirts.

I've been using alpkit stuff recently. Good customer service and 3 year alpine bond. So far so good. I get the impression a lot of staff are active and use their own kit and feed back into the process. It's designed with use in mind and not as a fashion item to go to the shops in. Currently using their bib shorts, tights, gloves and bum bag. Might try some other bits when my current kit needs replacing. I also like the repair stations they have in store.

I've not had anything fail yet but I think it will be easier to deal with as there are no middle company to go through.

6ft3 and slim so I find it hard to find jackets that fit my shoulders and arms and arent designed for a beer gut. I find running and road kit in general is a better fit for me.

I pick and choose my kit, I'm a miss match of brands and colours, no real brand loyalty, I base my desicion on the item and price, not a brand but currently being won over by alpkit.

a lot of MTB specific kit is more about the brand though rather than the function and you end up paying for that. the example above of fox jerseys for £50-60 for a polyester t-shirt with a massive logo is a point in case. there's obviously a brand behind all outdoor kit companies, people have their favourites and some are perceived to be higher quality than others, however i think it's more about the logo with a lot of mtb kit

Yep, and lots of other branded kit names are the same; £60-80 for a polyester tee shirt that's 4 pieces and not that well sown together fits where it touches and will rip at the first sight of the undergrowth, or starts to fade or bobble after a year or so and don't get me started on Fox clothing sizing...

Some-one on the previous page mentioned their Rapha jersey that's lasted for years and worn constantly, I've got a similar roadie top of theirs and it's a lovely bit of kit, I was so disappointed with the Rapha release this year I actually wrote to them to complain about it! I know 7mesh make some lovely stuff (I've got a couple of base layers) but surely it shouldn't cost that much to make just half decent well thought out kit that's well put together? Perhaps it does. But if I can buy a Rapha roadie jersey that's well made with natural fibres, fits well, and lasts years, where's the MTB version of that?

however i think it’s more about the logo with a lot of mtb kit

While this is partly true, it doesn't explain some of the issues listed here - Endura for example with iffy detailing...

But if I can buy a Rapha roadie jersey that’s well made with natural fibres, fits well, and lasts years, where’s the MTB version of that?

The Rapha winter MTB kit doesn't seem to be on their website yet (maybe I got an email about it?) but there was a top with a new wool mix fabric, windproof front and bramble resistant sleeves that sounded promising.

Bought a Fox technical base layer in the Summer , under £30 it’s been great , subtle logo’s as well . Contrast this with my quest for some decent trousers . Tried a pair of Leatt from Wiggle , there was a reason they were reduced to under £50 . They looked so flimsy that they wouldn’t last 5 minutes , as for the “ ventilation” 3 holes poked in the top of each leg really ? 🙄 Thought Leatt would be better than that .
Thought I’d move up the price scale next , Madison Zenith 4 season trousers which were mislabelled in the current mag , those are actually the DTE version at £119 . Mark has apologised . Even so £89 and no Velcro or closure of any type on the ankle cuffs ?.?? How much extra does it cost during manufacture to stitch a strip of Velcro on for heavens sake ! 🙄 Disappointed at Madison because up until now the kit I’ve had of there’s actually seem to have been thought out and designed by people who actually use it .

I haven't seen the leatt trousers you're taking about but thin fabric can be really tough and long lasting. I have a Montane Featherlight that's years old now, has a hole in the belly courtesy of an exposure bar mount that also pierced my skin but that hole hasn't grown and that top has been through the wash/proof cycle numerous times, pulled out the bag in the midst of horrible conditions, ridden through brambles, crashed in, the lot. It would literally blow away in a stiff breeze.

I might check those trousers out...

there was a top with a new wool mix fabric, windproof front and bramble resistant sleeves

Here you go…

https://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/mens-trail-windblock-jersey/product/TWI01XX

Trousers look interesting (but short), but not available yet.

I tend to buy in person and I'm not bothered whether its 'road' or MTB. Road stuff works better if you are slim, I use;

planet X bibless tights
Bib shorts from prendas but also dhb ones fit ok
Avoid wools for baselayers they don't wick. A HH is fine or the px ones work.
Summer jerseys from wherever I like the look of.
All the layers under a waterproof jacket or castelli Rain gilet.
Gloves from Evans
Aldi socks
Prendas caps and a buff in combination for cold weather layers

I was out running with a couple of guys yesterday who were on a 5 mile rant about Inov8 shoes and how they don’t last and are to expensive.

Best shoes I ever had were Inov8. Just bought a new pair and (after a few issues with the website), no problems at all. Quick delivery, first impressions very good. If they last half as long as the previous pair they'll be well worth it.

Agree with the comments about Endura. Sometimes their stuff is genuinely brilliant, other times it seems to be a bit flaky. I've had two of their Stealth softshell jackets though (sadly not made anymore) and they've been nothing short of superb. The first one did finally die after many years of commuting use when I wore it around Gisburn in horrendous conditions and the gritty muddy soaking it got finally convinced me to just bin it.

MTB jerseys now are kind of like roadie jerseys from 15-20 years ago. A bit shapeless, polyester/nylon mix fashion statements rather than technical garments. For years I wore roadie jerseys and MTB shorts because frankly, the roadie jerseys were far superior!

I agree with most of the previous comments. I don't understand why sizes vary so much to the point that I dread buying clothing online.
I've mostly switched to Decathlon because they have some pretty usable kit at reasonable prices (because it is going to get snagged etc) but I can try it on instore.

I too have some Endura shorts that seem bulletproof (and true too size) but they are at least 8 years old so cant comment on the current stuff.

I do often find myself wondering who tests the products out and that I could do a better job.

And

Another question – how come reviews aren’t picking this up?

There used to be a section in a certain MTB magazine (😉) where they reviewed kit but only after it had been well used for a time. But apparently people would prefer to read online reviews of kit the instant it's released. 🤷‍♂️

I have some Aussie Grit jerseys (which are a relaxed roadie fit) which are excellent, but the company ceased trading, which is a real shame.

There are alternatives to the overpriced Fox jerseys. These were recommended on another thread. setup

Things I hate about Summer MTB clothing:

* gloves with a long wrist section
* shorts with a high waist consisting of multiple layers of folded material

Does anyone put anything in the pockets by the knee on MTB shorts and then get on their bike and go for a ride? I suppose something small and light (a rubber Johnny or two?) might be ok.

MTB. Road stuff works better if you are slim, I use;

this 100%. the reason i hate cycling clothing is because i am very big and i have never found any cycle clothing to fit.
fat lad at the back stuff is made for fat lads, not big lads.
might start a bike clothes company 'big bloke at the back'.

Love a single thigh/knee pocket, it's the perfect place to but your gloves pre/mid/post ride.

I do think that clothing companies should show the clothes on a model the sane body shape as the intended customer.

Not one noticed the belly zip poorly finished and will slowly undo?

Why do bibs need a zip? None of mine (Castelli, Galibier, Endura) have zips.

Got some windproof leggings a few years back to help keep the heat in in winter.
I went cheapo cheap and got muddy fox ones out of sports direct.

They were windproof alright, but I found them sweaty even on a relatively cold day so chucked them, but before i did I took a close examination as to why they were so sweaty, thinking it would be a nylon or something lined with fleece
I found the front panels were layered with polythene.

I hate the velcro obsession. Get it tae ****.

Why do bibs need a zip? None of mine (Castelli, Galibier, Endura) have zips.

Easier to put on / take off.
Easy way of adjusting for temperature as well. My Rapha ones all have zips, none of them have ever failed in that area.

What I don't like in tights is a pad. Shorts (with pad) underneath, tights over. It's quite difficult to find plain, non-padded tights now.

Not just other sports but MTB kit in comparison to the boom in roadie kit makes us look like mugs by comparison.

The crux of it for me is that most MTB kit is form over function, people want to not look like a roadie but the roadie kit is function over form.

Why do bibs need a zip? None of mine (Castelli, Galibier, Endura) have zips

Saves the hunch over for peepee.

@anagallis_arvensis I think that covers it for me, Unlike roadie, I don't think any of the major clothing manufacturers or designers have ever really sat down and thought through what the platonic MTB jersey should be. What features it might need and what material is best and how it should fit. That's a function of the fact that roadie has a history going back over a century or so, and MTB being still quite young relatively speaking, and still influenced by fashion rather that function (as you suggest)

I think you are right nick. Anytime clothing for any activity starts having to worry about the 'look' it will start to lose function.

Sizing is a nightmare as demonstrated above and essentially the key to most of the issues

Adults tend to be more than six/seven sizes but that's what we expect them to offer technical clothing in.

Quality is always variable as it depends which factory made them and whether any QC exists.
All brands seem to be on the quality rollercoaster

As for magazine reviews, think of them more as advertorials

 I don’t think any of the major clothing manufacturers or designers have ever really sat down and thought through what the platonic MTB jersey should be. What features it might need and what material is best and how it should fit.

Horses for courses and all that, but I don't need much in terms of features on an MTB jersey, I don't want pockets, zips, skin tight etc in the way I do on a road top (can't think of anything worse than a non skin tight top with bits in pockets jumping about), just something which fits well, no scratchy bits, regulates heat well and is not covered in naff logos (which rules out a lot of MTB kit) - ie a decent technical T-Shirt with a bike friendly cut.  There are quite a few options which fit this brief, though as stated above my main issue is needing a size between M & L.

What I would like is MTB trousers which are designed for someone shorter of leg (and between M & L)

most MTB kit is form over function

Lol! It's something, but it's definitely not 'form'. 😀

Most people who do MTBing are male, 30+ and have no sense of style anyway, let's face it. So perhaps that's why MTB clothing is so generally terrible.

Exhibit A:

singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bike-clothing-poor-value-and-poor-design/page/2/#post-12088516

Have a look at Lusso or Galibier.cc for unpadded bibs

I don’t think any of the major clothing manufacturers or designers have ever really sat down and thought through what the platonic MTB jersey should be

I don't think there is one. My requirements from a road jersey have never really changed - a decent length zip to open for long climbs, pockets enough to stash windvest, phone, a bit of food.

Off road I know people who do use pockets (though I never have). I used to think a zip was desirable but no longer do. I don't think a basic t-shirt cut works that well - it does imo need to be a bit longer at the back, raglan type sleeves work better in a riding position than simple t.

 it does imo need to be a bit longer at the back, raglan type sleeves work better in a riding position than simple t.

There you go, you've already given it more thought that most do in just one sentence off the top of your head.

Off road I know people who do use pockets (though I never have). I used to think a zip was desirable but no longer do. I don’t think a basic t-shirt cut works that well – it does imo need to be a bit longer at the back, raglan type sleeves work better in a riding position than simple t.

Back pockets (roadie jersey style) off-road are a nightmare unless the jersey is very tight and whatever is in them is small/slim - or the pocket is zipped to stop it bouncing out. Also the risk of falling off and impaling yourself on an multitool is considerably greater off-road.

That said, I'd be happy with a more fitted jersey minus back pockets.

I don't think there is lack of well-designed MTB clothing, e.g.Norrona, Gore, Leatt, some RF items are well engineered and last for ages but I do agree that prices have increased to painful level.

Also some fun seems to be lost over time, shirts like STW whisky barrel jersey were fun but not as over the top like Foska or Primal Wear.

Let's be honest though; the main function of outdoor clothing is to signify your social status to others, but creating the image of yourself as virile, active, successful etc, whilst in busy urban areas. Ordering a Latté whilst wearing anything less than ArcTerycx is just such a faux pas.

The perfect Mountain Bike Jersey doesn't ex...

Reasonably Priced (circa £30 full price)

Doesn't get stinky as has silver in it

Thin enough for summer, layer another tech t underneath for cooler temps.

Long enough at the back

Long enough sleeves

The perfect Mountain Bike Jersey doesn’t ex…

exactly - there are plenty of options like this - this seems like a particularly good example though

long sleeve, form fitting but not skin tight, not a fluro advertising hoarding.

Theres a whole spectrum between the DH pyjamas and redsockrambler+spds aethetics

There are many, many, many jerseys just like that one. From many different brands all over the world. People are looking at the kit they don't like, and skipping straight passed easily available no nonsense unexciting kit that just works. Ultimately, people like to moan, don't they.

There are many, many, many jerseys just like that one

Yep, and they're all just a bit shit and made of 100% plastic, none of them really fit that well, and are badly put together I've a cheap Dakine tee shirt that has the small chest logo on my right shoulder and the large back logo on my chest...

As A_A and others have pointed out the roadie jersey world is sorted, it's pretty hard to spend the same sort of cash as you would for a branded MTB jersey and get a poor product, why is that not available for mountain bikers?

I've never understood the love for Endura. I had their shorts and liner shorts and they were absolutely horrible to wear, then fell apart quickly.

I'm not sure stuff is bad generally, but does seem expensive.

One thing that does amuse me is how there was a massive fuss over skin suits in dh racing not looking cool enough but now it seems lots of the cool kids are wearing very tight clothing that's not far off a skin suit for stuff like Rampage anyway.

^^^^ on the flip aside, most of my MTB/gravel kit is Endura and i have had very few failures through poor fit, bad design or workmanship. The rest of my kit is either Rapha or Castelli, with some dhb and Decathlon base layers. I can't really fault any of it, and it all gets worn a fair amount, often in pretty poor weather/conditions.

Yep, and they’re all just a bit shit and made of 100% plastic,

May I suggest that you're being a teensy bit of a snob?

Polyester jerseys (preferably with little holes under the armpits) work pretty damn well for MTBing.

Or a poly baselayer and softshell jacket when it's cold and/or raining a bit.

I've got posher merino tops but they only work for me in proper cold. Roubaix is great on the road bike where windchill is more constant, I don't bother with that for MTB either though.