You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Fenwicks is reduced in my lbs but never used specific bike cleaner, it does seem to take me ages though so bought a hose and wondering if a bike cleaner will melt the mud away in a glorious cilit bang advert wunderbarr result sort of way?
Never used Fenwicks but Muc-off does seem to shift it far easier than anything else I have tried (And that includes nasty TFR)
fenwicks def better the fairy
I use Elbow Grease, household degreaser spray. IIRC, pretty much any degreaser is better than Fairy (other brands of washing up liquid are available), due to washing up liquid containig salt (as an abrasive).
I use Fenwicks & reckon it's pretty good, defo beter than WUL.
cool i shall give fenwicks a bash then, cheers
I always look out for reduced price barbeque cleaner which seems to shift the grease.
Hope sh1t shifter is great, I was using fairly liquid and it took me ages so get all the grime out from between places. Just spray on leave for 4 minutes and hose off. Still have to give the drive train a bit of a wipe, but has saved my about 20 minutes every wash. I try not to get it on seals or bushings though, just incase.
Edit: just to add that I've used muc off previously and it's OK but not as good as hope's stuff.
themanfromdelmonte - Member
I use Elbow Grease, household degreaser spray. IIRC, pretty much any degreaser is better than Fairy (other brands of washing up liquid are available), due to washing up liquid containig salt (as an abrasive).
Doesn't the salt dissolve in the water, though?
The salt is dissolved, but it helps clean kitchen items and softens the water I guess? Not so good for bikes though so you have to make sure it's all rinsed off
been using dish washing detergent (fairy liquid, etc.) to clean off-road bikes for 25+ years (including modern bikes with suspension and disc brakes) and no problems to report?
tried muc-off, sh*t shifter, fenwick, etc.
found it less effective at shifting the built-up mud (often seen mud stains still on the bike after cleaning and rinsing using these products)
its a complete rip-off compared to £0.99 dish washing detergent which cleans a hell of a lot more bike than a bottle of muc-off??
and Muc-off made some of my anodised components (especially Sun rims and race face stems) change from a black colour to a copper / brass colour and that was only 10 minutes of cleaning and then rinsing
never had that issue with dish washing detergent?
rwc03 - Member
The salt is dissolved, but it helps clean kitchen items and softens the water I guess? Not so good for bikes though so you have to make sure it's all rinsed off
is it more harmful that mud?
doesn't Muc-off say to rinse after a few minutes to avoid affecting paint finish?
mukjunkie, i was sponsored by them a few years ago but not anymore (as I dont race anymore) but I have found this much better than muck off etc etc. Also the guy who started it, put bike parts in containers covered in the product for 6 months before release and not one part had faded or changed colour.
Ebay is the best place to buy it as they have great deals on there, give it a go, i'm sure you will be impressed.
Oh you dont have to but you can water it down 50/50 still giving you the same power (but I never told you that)
Stu
bucket of hot water with some Fairy in it for the bike, spray of Muc-Off or equivalent on the geary bits to help shift the oily grime, been working fine for me for years and years and years
I use fenwicks. Buy the Concentrated stuff for £10 and it works out as £1 a litre. Hardly expensive.
Washing up liquid is not ideal for bikes or cars etc. I use a big bottle of purple Meguiars for the car and Fenwicks for the bike. Both have lasted me ages. I keep the Fairy for the dishes.
Doesn't the salt dissolve in the water, though?
That's kinda' the point though. Even if it is dissolved, you're washing you bike with salt water.
is it more harmful that mud?
That would be very hard to quantify, probably not. But it's certainly more harmful than using unsalted kitchen/motor degreaser (so still no need to pay through the nose).
As said above, its ok to use washing up liquid but make sure its ALL rinsed off well. Muc off and Hope sh!t shifter are best I've used.
hot soapy water 20 times better then cold with muc off etc personally and cheaper, rinse off after with cold job done
Simple Green is where it's AT!
Better than anything I have ever used. super cheap. super non-toxic.
Let's wash our £1000 / £2000 / £3000 bikes in salt water, thereby saving literally pennies every year! Great idea.
For me, cold water and a selection of bike brushes does the job. Sometimes I'll spray on a bike specific cleaner, but not every time.
I will pull up a chair...
You ride your bike through lord knows what on the trails then it may go on the roof or back of the car and you drive home. I seriously doubt that anything that may be in good old washing up liquid is going to be any worse. especially with the amount of salt being chucked on the roads at this time of year.
Quick rinse to get the worst of and then bucket and brush to clean it down. there may be some car wash stuff in the bucket Dry it down, sort the chain and done. Every now and then the forks/shock will get a squirt of silicon spray.
Not one for lining the pockets of these "specialist cleaner firms". The money feels better in my pocket. 😉
The chain gets cleaned with a Flash/water solution, rinsed and then re lubed. It works for me.
I was sceptical about Muc Off and always used to use washing up liquid instead, but it did seem to make for squealing brakes so I changed to Muc Off and have had no problems since
Mark N - salt on the roads is horrible for the bikes as well. Still no reason to on purpose cover your bike in salt water after every ride though, is it? Mud is not nearly as corrosive.
What is worse is that the detergent breaks the surface tension of the water, meaning the salty water mix finds its way into every nook and cranny much easier than just water itself, and so water alone won't rinse it out. So your bearings are filled up with a degreaser + corrosive mixture, a really bad combo.
Given the price of even one bearing is more than a fiver, why bother feeling good saving say £4.50 by buying a bottle of cheep dish cleaner and IIRC 4% salt (used as a thickener I believe)? Would you save money on hair shampoo by using dishwashing liquid?
Sorry for being an evangelist about this, but I have seen what washing up solution does to bare steel... it is not good.
Car shampoo
A cocktail of all the above perhaps ?
[i]Sorry for being an evangelist about this,[/i]
I'm sorry too, because it's a pile of old bollocks.
How much salt is in a bucket of water with a squirt of washing up liquid in?
How much salt remains when the bike gets rinsed off?
Muc-off and the like will discolour the anodising on your bike; a lot worse than a squirt of washing up liquid.
Cobblers peddled to the mindless..
...and I've seen waht washing up liquid does too; I use it to wash things in, in my kitchen, everyday.
crikey - I find it helps to imagine you are sitting round with a bunch of mates having a craic when posting on the internet. It generally means the conversation remains respectful of each other, rather than descending into 'keyboard warrior' mode.
The answer to 'how much salt' is 'enough, if it gets into the wrong place'. Go get a handful of nails, and a shallow dish. Fill it up with some dishwash water, then put the nails in, then leave it and see what happens to the nails. Do the same with plain water, and bike detergent, if you want to see the difference.
It's up to you whether you think this is cobblers or not. For me, it is much more sensible to use either plain water (which does a fine job most of the time), or a squirt of proper bike cleaner, that gets rinsed off quick. A £5 bottle of bike detergent every year or two isn't going to break the bank.
I'm talking to you as if you were one of my mates; hence the use of fruity colloquialisms. If this upsets you, perhaps you should recalibrate your expectations of a mountain bike website.
Your dishwater and nails experiment is quaint and irrelevant; we are talking about washing bicycles, not nail soakage.
Your 'proper bike cleaner' will do more damage than washing up liquid; I have seen red anodised wheels turn pink because of Muc-off use over a winter of washing a cross bike.
I have been washing my bikes using washing up liquid for 25 years without problem.
I'm sure you know that stuff comes across harsher on the net, and TBH I don't think the subject nor my POV deserves that level of derision.
The nails are steel, the same thing that bearings are made out of more or less. The experiment shows that WU liquid is corrosive to steel.
It may be that modern bikes don't have that much that are affected by this, but still bearings may develop problems, and it won't do the chain any good, and possibly the brakes as well.
I have heard about the anodizing issue before, I wonder what the mechanism is for this? Not good in any case.
That's why plain water is best.
Sorry for being an evangelist about this, but I have seen what washing up solution does to bare steel... it is not good.
have you seen what happens to bare steel when exposed to oxygen... it is not good.
Fenwicks user here. Mixed to 10% for general and 25-30% for drivetrain. Works well, better than muc off in my opinion. I used flash about 10yrs ago, seemed fine
doh - just steel and oxygen don't react very much at all, it needs water or water vapor to do the damage. Salt makes it rust much quicker. It is way less affected by pure water or by dry oxygen.
If the muds bad i'll hose my bike down, maybe dislodge the worst of the stubborn stuff with a brush, run a rag over the drivetrain then lube the drivetrain.
Nothing has really faded or corroded so far.
doh - just steel and oxygen don't react very much at all, it needs water or water vapor to do the damage
where on earth could this magical oxygen/water vapour mixture that you speak of exist.
salt is used in wup liquid to thicken it. micelles, trust me. It can be quite high levels too, but as long as you rinse well i doubt it'll do much harm in the short contact period.
That said, I use Halfords value car shampoo diluted down in an old Muc Off sprayer plus a soft brush and my dirtworker. About £4 for 5 litres if i remember and I've had the stuff about 3 years now and there's tonnes left.
Fenwicks and Muc-Off seem comparable to me.
I've found that car washing soap (Turtle Wax etc) works well too.
It helps that you can buy 5L of that for around £15 or whatever and that will last for a year or so.
I once cleaned my bike with Muc Off using a sponge - the next day the skin peeled off my fingers. That's how Muc Off etc work. It's caustic.
It does remove grime well as well.
Another vote here for car wash detergent, with Simple Green for tough spots and degreasing.
i used muc-off for the best part of two years and went through bearings far too quickly (and yes, i rinsed it off thoroughly, shortly after it had been applied). it was very effective in doing its job but these days i just rinse the worse of the muck off with a hose and let the bikes stay dirty! cleaning em with a toothbrush after every ride seems a waste of time to me.
I use this http://www.busters-accessories.co.uk/productinfo/578271/Bike-Care/Cleaners/Fuchs-Silkolene if you regularly check web site they often do two for price of one lasts ages aswell.
1 litre Bike Cleaner from local 99p shop for me, not that I ever clean my bike..
+1 for the poundland stuff. +1 for leaving the bike dirty too 😉
Another vote for car washing detergent here - but I make sure I get the stuff without the wax cos that makes my brakes squeal!
+1 for leaving the bike dirty too
That's why ive got ss bikes and get away with it on the mtb but the cross bike just seems to accumulate bucket loads of mud
I just use fairy. have done for 20 years, to no ill effects.
Squirt in a bucket of hot water for the frame wheels etc... and used neat on drivetrain with one of these, shifts anything....
[img] 
[/img]
rinse off straight away.
I use a hose pipe too. Bikes haven't melted away yet.
A hosepipe was the best thing I bought for my bike last year
Salt is used in the WUL recipe as a thickener, not very much either. Some of the alkalis used in some bike cleaners are just as corrosive.
A hosepipe was the best thing I bought for my bike last year
bought one this week, quite excited 😀
My 2p worth...
I've always washed my bikes with washing up liquid, hot water & a sponge, then hosed down with cold water to rinse.
Once clean & dry I spray the frame lightly with GT85, especially the seat tube, under the BB and the underside of the down tube. Unless it's particularly wet out, this seems to stop dirt sticking to the frame & makes cleaning a lot easier. Smells nice too.
Just don't get it on your discs. For obvious reasons.
What's all this talk of washing bikes? I ride mine on the trails so often, if I washed it 'properly' after every ride it would erode, not corrode.
When I get back, I swill the majority off with the hose, then attack the stuff that's stuck on a little better with a paintbrush, rinse, bounce the excess water off the bike, then spray the expensive stuff with WD40 to remove the water, then stick it in the garage ready to ride again the next day. 10-minutes, done.
If the weather's nice I might put it in the bike stand and do it properly, but with work, wife, kids, and lots of other stuff going on in my life that's rare. When I do I use something that makes bubbles. I sometimes wonder whether it's worth it though cos 5 mins in to the next ride it looks like sh1t again, as it's supposed to. Clean MTBs just look ghey.
Dont use washing up liquids - many have salts in them!!!
I use car wash which works fine for frame and then something like Shit shifter for chain etc.
hot soapy water 20 times better then cold with muc off etc personally and cheaper, rinse off after with cold job done
At home: degreaser on black/silver bits, warm water with car shampoo, luke warm rinse. All good in the hood.
In random carpark: Muc-Off (or similar), rub with a brush, hose with Dirtworker.
Like a lot of things, Muc-Off type stuff is designed with a job in mind. For that job it's very good. Washing up liquid is designed for washing dishes (and is apparently similar to shampoo, according to one hairdresser I know). To me it makes sense to use the best tool for the job where possible.
Finally if I want to wash my bike in salty water I'll dip it in the channel.
MUK OFF totally wrecked my burgtec penthouse flat Red anodised pedals. Ended up with mincey pink! very unhappy.
What do you guys suggest for matte black adonized frames, instruction manual says use water only, dont think that will do the job once it gets grubby. i gave my gloss white bike a good clean with soapy water, and a good spray with gt85 a few week ago, cleaned again the other day and didnt even need water, just a dry rag and the crap just fell off.
gt85 on adonized fram yay or nay?
Hey mate - I'd follow the manufacturers instructions, so clean water only to wash off the crap. An oily rag or kitchen towel with oil is good if you want to polish the frame up, and as you say, it makes it easier to clean the next time. Also stops overspray getting near your brakes!
I drop by bikes into a huge bag of salt give it a good shake then drop it back into the garage.
Does less harm to it than riding it through winter. 😆
Serouisly some of you guys need to get a grip. It's a bike. It gets mashed through muddy/shitty/gritty/nasty conditions and you worry about stuff that's kind to hands in a bucket full of water. 🙄
Ride the f****r and stop poncing about.
Been using washing up liquid for years on the bikes, no problems to report, Mrs been using muc off on the dishes, again no problems, its whatever works for you, funny though only last week one of the lads said on a ride " how does your bike always look so clean especially your gears" so I'm more than happy to stick with one squirt of w.u.l in a bucket of hot water.
A rag/cloth with WD40 or GT85 on it and wiped over the frame has always worked for me. I wash and dry and then wipe over with WD40. Just keep it clear of the discs for obvious reason.
Nikk, I agree that WUL has salt in it, most cleaners do I reckon. AFAIK it is there as a water softener so you get bubbles. I also agree that it has the ability to get into every nook and cranny as it will reduce the surface tension properties of water. I still remember that experiment at school. That is how cleaners work so they can lift the dirt off. Leave any untreated metal out side and it will corrode, washed in WUL or not. I was not suggesting that you leave the bike unrinsed.
+1 for turtlewax car shampoo for general bike cleaning esp mtb. Completey agree avoid washing up liquid due to salt. Mucoff is great for cleaning ingrained road dirt of road wheel rims though- nothing comes close for me.
I got told using car shampoo was a no no due to waxes being in there and playing havoc with your brakes??
I can't believe that any rational person would seriously believe that washing up liquid would harm a bike in any measurable way whatsoever.
If you want to buy fancy stuff, fine, go ahead - you don't need to justify it
I still have my dad's old Cartlon racer that got washed weekly with washing up liquid since 1969, last time I looked it hadn't dissolved into a pile of rust particles
Joda that is my camp as well. If you want then go and get the fancy stuff but not sure that you 'have to'.
Each to their own.
I got told using car shampoo was a no no due to waxes being in there and playing havoc with your brakes
Just avoid the stuff described as "wash-n-wax" and stick to the plain "car shampoo" and your brakes will be fine...
if people are hell-bent on denouncing washing-up liquid as the work of the devil, then
[img] 
[/img]
show us what happens when it's used! tried muckoff, didn't seem to do much, certainly didn't shift the mud any quicker than washing up liquid in water with a sponge... [B]I'VE NEVER KILLED A BIKE![/B]
Bless - It's like the cable people in hifi. Bucket of whatever is at hand seems to work as well as anything and the idea the WUL damages things seems a bit silly TBH. However if someone wants to spend more on pink stuff in a bottle who am I to stop them.
Found fairy makes the chain go rustier than when using ither cleaners. I tend to use turtle wax in the bucket and muc-off. Got it cheap from wiggle when it was £2 a bottle. The ahlfords stuff is also pretty good
Sticking a nail in a dish with water containing salt is not a viable experiment to ascertain the effects Fairy liquid would have on your bike!
When have you ever submerged your bike in a swimming pool of salt water over night?
A squirt of washing up liquid in hot water would contain little salt! After it going on the bike and having a high pressure hose or jet wash blown over it with cold clean water just how much salt is going to be left on the bike! I would say there would be far more trace elements of salt in the air you breath especially if you live on the coast! Come on that is really not an issue. Not to mention the mud contains salt, large amounts where I live as the mud if left on the bike for ages can corrode some parts. What about the salt they stick on the road too!
Washing up liquid never damages my hands and I use it everyday! You can make an argument for anything and trying to say washing up liquid ever damaged a bike any more than the salt in the air or mud on the ground in which its exposed to is lame.
A fool and there money!
water mainly and a brush
Occasionally washing up liquid but mainly because the kids like the bubbles
The effect of the salt [ compared to trail detritus] is so negligible that I am willing to ignore it. Others may wish to pay more for peace of mind but I am not one of them
i put my chain in a tub with a mixture of washing up liquid and water and forgot about it, when i took it out it was very rusty, i cleaned it up and gave it a good lube. I got a lift to work and set off on a 25 mile ride home, after 8 mile thechain broke, i fixed and another 4 mile it broke again, i fixed it again and rode home very gingerly as i had no more links left.
You've convinced me
Go for a ride in the snow. Everything comes back sparkling. Why is that ?
@ seth-enslow666
Sticking a nail in a dish with water containing salt is not a viable experiment to ascertain the effects Fairy liquid would have on your bike!When have you ever submerged your bike in a swimming pool of salt water over night?
My point is that the water / detergent / salt solution has a much lower surface tension than plain water, and therefore gets into bearings easier. Once in there, the detergent breaks down the grease, and the salt corrodes the steel.
A squirt of washing up liquid in hot water would contain little salt! After it going on the bike and having a high pressure hose or jet wash blown over it with cold clean water just how much salt is going to be left on the bike!
Bearings are one place where the solution will get into and 'lie', and not be rinsed off. It doesn't take much salt in a water solution to encourage corrosion, and it doesn't take much corrosion to badly affect a bearing.
would say there would be far more trace elements of salt in the air you breath especially if you live on the coast!
For sure that may have an impact as well. Whether it is greater or lesser, I dunno.
Come on that is really not an issue. Not to mention the mud contains salt, large amounts where I live as the mud if left on the bike for ages can corrode some parts. What about the salt they stick on the road too!
For sure that may have an impact as well. Whether it is greater or lesser, I dunno. Salty roads are horrible, especially bad is the bike on the car and driving on salted roads for miles... need to rinse that off ASAP. But at least there isn't detergent as well.
Washing up liquid never damages my hands and I use it everyday!
Your hands are made of steel, are they?
You can make an argument for anything
You can also try and have a reasoned discussion...
and trying to say washing up liquid ever damaged a bike any more than the salt in the air or mud on the ground in which its exposed to is lame.
Well, I didn't say that, and neither did anyone in this thread AFAICS.
A fool and there money!
Indeed. Let's wash our ££££ stuff in salt water to save a few pounds 🙂
Bless - It's like the cable people in hifi.
It is nothing like that. The hi-fi nonsense is not based on science. Salty water rusting metal is basic chemistry.
Bucket of whatever is at hand seems to work as well as anything
It will get the bike clean, it is what happens after that that is being discussed.
and the idea the WUL damages things seems a bit silly TBH.
You are just pulling that out of thin air though. It can damage things, more than plain water, more than the correct product for the job. Please accept the fact!
However if someone wants to spend more on pink stuff in a bottle who am I to stop them.
I find it weird that the argument always comes down to this. How much did you spend on your bike? How much is a bottle of bike cleaner? If you use it sensibly (you don't need to use it every time), it lasts ages.
Come on people, a bit of mechanical sympathy and basic chemistry please 
i put my chain in a tub with a mixture of washing up liquid and water and forgot about it, when i took it out it was very rusty
Yup. I did the same with some kitchen knives years ago. Had to throw them out.
We've used lots (as we sell lots) but I can honestly say that the only cleaner I'll use is Pedro's Green Fizz. It works and doesn't kill anodising like the usual crew.
nikk is ABSOLUTELY correct in his comments on this thread and it's backed up with approval from my friendly mettalurgist at work.
FFS. An argument about soapy water. Next you'll be telling me not to use a pressure washer.
ooooh......pressure washers and pushbikes............ 😯
Spey Stout - use what you like, it's your bike 🙂