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I built up a HT frame in the new year and after a few rides I started to get pain in both elbows. I eventually went to the GP and was diagnosed with tennis elbow. I didn't link the two completely until the summer when I didn't ride for a good six weeks and my elbows felt much better. I then rode the HT and almost straight away my elbows flared up again. I haven't ridden it since and probably won't unless something changes. I've run the front fork fairy soft and put on bigger grips but it's not helped.
The HT frame is a 2019 Cotic Solaris Max and I have to be honest, it's a superb bike for the twisty singletrack that I ride. It's obviously the geometry of the frame I don't get on with, it's long, low and slack. It's the first LLS bike I've had, my other bike is a 2015 Santa Cruz Tallboy LT, so very different geometry.
How can I remedy this? Can I change my position to help things?
Is it tennis elbow ie pain radiating from the outside of the joint? It's normally down to something in your position putting extra fatigue into the muscles supporting that area. And it might just be the bike tipping you over the threshold rather than being the sole cause, with other stuff (keyboard work etc) contributing.
How do you think your position is different on the HT? More stretched out, more weight through the hands?
I suffer with tennis elbow if I use a straight bar for curls or for pull ups, changing to gym rings and an ez curl bar sorted it.
Never suffered on a bike but I'd be looking at bar type and positioning. Are your bars fairly straight? Do you ride with your arms locked out?
Tennis elbow is caused by gripping something while moving the arm. So the solution is obviously to not use the brakes! 😉
More seriously, this is something I struggle with, and at its worse I had to take a few months off-bike and took up running. For me, using a heavily swept handlebar helps (H-bar is best for comfort but not so good on steep terrain, Stooge Moto works for me as a compromise), as does maximising brake rotor size (less squeezing of the levers). I also use ergon grips. Raising bar height to get weight off your arms might also help, but that's speculation.
ETA: I also use a 'vertical' mouse when at work, and during flair ups will use elbow sleeves to apply pressure and an ultrasonic massager on the effected area.
Mine was caused by bouldering but riding certainly stopped it getting better. If it hurts, it's re-injuring. In the end something called an epi-clasp worked great for me. It's just a band that sits around your forearm and restricts the muscle range of movement, because the muscle is restricted it stops your tendon getting to the tare point, and gives it time to heal. I wore it for about six months while working or riding/doing anything that might aggravate it. Eventually just realised it had healed and been spot on since.
I'm pretty sure it's only related to the bike position. I think the LLS position is too long and too low. The stem is a 35mm and its at the top of my steerer. My bars are 760mm wide and about 20mm rise, they've come off previous bikes and I've got on with them. An Epi Clasp may be something to look into. I'll also stop using the brakes!
These are really good. The supination one with a dumbbell cured mine in a week.
https://www.healthline.com/health/fitness-exercise/tennis-elbow-rehab#exercises
I've suffered with this at times. I'd look at your bars - grips - brakes setup before blaming the bike geometry.
I had some very nice Renthal bars a couple of bikes ago which I think just didn't suit me. May have been the switch to 800mm width too.
Have you tried using a racquet instead?
I have the same frame but don’t find it great for tight tracks tbh.
What sweep/rise does your handlebar have? Lifting it and having a bit more sweep may work.
It's something I'm struggling with since going back to been a bricky.last few months have been painful and getting to the point I may have to down the trowel as it's that bad .bought this and it's eased the pain https://www.upmedical.co.uk/products/ultimate-compression-elastic-elbow-support
I'd recommend trying a Jones type bar.
I have one on my solarismax, not for tennis elbow, just because I like the position. The change feels really odd when you first try them and then you forget. Go back to straight bars and it feels like someone is twisting your arms off.
If you are anywhere near Bolton give me a shout
If you change the position you're riding it asks questions of all kinds of muscles you may not have been fully using to hold that new pose. If there are imbalances, then strain gets passed down the arm and eventually winds up pissing off your tricep/forearm muscle enough to inflame the tendon or tweak the ulnar nerve.
Braces etc sort of disguise the central issue, which is muscle imbalance/weakness. And it's often not quite where you think - it could even be partly a core issue, with it too weak to hold the right position so you slump forwards.
First step is to stop pissing it off. A little bit of discomfort during riding is one thing, but if it starts hurting all the time, or when you are doing stuff like twisting the wrist to pour out a kettle/saucepan, it's time to back right off and let it settle.
Then start doing some light exercise as linked above. If dumbbells are too painful, start with a theraband.
You may find it worthwhile to get the tape measure out and start trying to mimic your 'old' position with bar rise and sweep. But you'll still need to sort out the underlying issue. Oh, and if you're desk-bound during the day, have a close look at your keyboard position/height. Mine was probably 75% keyboard, and 25% rock climbing.
So elbows aren't happy, pour the kettle etc and it hurts. I've got a Renthal bar on the bike, it came off my full sus and has never given me issues previously, it's just an average riser bar. I'll have a look at more swept back bars, thanks for the offer @madbillmcmad but I'm way down south.
I'll certainly look into exercising and strengthening after work tonight. My job is desk bound but in seven years I've not had any issues on my other bikes, I can only attribute it to the Cotic.
The Cotic is the thing that's finished the pissing-off process, for sure. But it might not be entirely the cause.
Have a read of this, I post it up on most TE threads:
https://drjuliansaunders.com/dodgy-elbows/
Have had issues myself. I moved to syntace vector bars with 12deg sweep and found them much better. Was previously on renthal...
Taking 5mm off each end of my bars has worked for me.
Curious that 3 people (myself included) have mentioned Renthal bars! I think that's firmly in the "anecdotal evidence" camp for now, but interesting...
FWIW, I'm currently really liking the OneUp carbon bars.
WRT renthal I think it's just that they're quite popular. The geometry of them isn't unusual. It would be nice if bars with 12 or 16 degree back sweep were more commonly available in MTB widths as most of the options I've seen are quite pricey.
I used to get tennis elbow when I rode with 785/800mm wide bars with 4deg upreach, 8deg sweep. Now I ride with 760mm 5deg upreach 9deg sweep. No more repeats of tennis elbow. A thing of the past.
When I was suffering the most I was living in an Islamic country. No pork, booze or drugs. I'd been straight for ages. Back home in the UK I had injections in my elbows a couple of times. Out in the developing desert country I asked for the same because it had given me relief for a while in thebapst. I knew I had to change my cockpit at some point as those injections couldn't be repeated indefinitely. This time they added an opiate to it, and had me hang around for a while in case of reaction.
I walked out to my car slightly lightheaded. Sank in my seat and concentrated on the drive home. Parked up, took my seatbelt off, opened the door and slid out onto the ground moaning with pleasure. Not too good since our sewage tanks were being emptied haphazardly, leaving sewage running down the streets. I went in, showered and changing and wacked some dance music on and spent a few hours enjoying myself.
It was about that time I worked on my bike cockpit and stopped suffering tennis elbow repeatedly. You just need the right impetus to get you going!
Eccentric loading of your wrist extensors is the usual exercise for tennis elbow
I walked out to my car slightly lightheaded. Sank in my seat and concentrated on the drive home. Parked up, took my seatbelt off, opened the door and slid out onto the ground moaning with pleasure. Not too good since our sewage tanks were being emptied haphazardly, leaving sewage running down the streets. I went in, showered and changing and wacked some dance music on and spent a few hours enjoying myself.
Definitely not the paragraph I expected on a tennis elbow thread.
A*, would read again.
I've had tennis elbow type injuries a couple of times, it's basically a repetitive strain type injury, probably doing something in a position your body isn't keen on
What has helped is lots of massage of the forearm muscles, and of course stopping the action that is the cause. I recently borrowed a bike with wider bars than I'm used to and it absolutely wrecked my wrists after 30 minutes. I had to grip in board of the brakes in the end, just to get home. As soon as I narrowed my grip, pain stopped.
So yes, change your position one way or another. I'd be thinking narrower bars but that is only based on my own experience