[Closed] Bike are silent killers - what do we think?

Keen to see the stats.

Just how many horses have been killed by 'silent' bicycles?

Isn't it more a reference to horses perceiving quiet, fast moving things as predatory, rather than bikes directly killing horses?

I both love and distrust horses in equal measure. Wonderful animals, but amazingly unpredictable, so always making them aware of our presence on approach and talking? to them as we pass carefully is good advice.

That poster describes more or less what I've been doing for years. I normally slow right down then call to the rider from about 30 metres back. Something along the lines of "Is it ok to pass?". I figure horses will be fairly used to human voices and less likely to be freaked out and also it gives the rider a heads up and a chance to either say "yes, go through" or "give me a minute" either of which is fine by me. We're all out trying to enjoy our day and a freaked out horse could ruin it for either of us.

Also I reckon a bit of chat, even if it's fairly short and to the point is good between different groups in the countryside.

I asked a horse rider some years ago what was best in terms of being noisy, staying quiet etc. She said to keep talking, which is something I find very easy to do in every facet of life. Frankly "thank you very much, lovely day for it, have a nice ride" is usually sufficient to get you past them.

I was nervous as hell as I passed a horse last Sunday, possibly for the first time ever, on a narrow country lane. All I could think about as I rode by was if the horse gets spooked, those mighty powerful legs could take me out so easily. And I said as much to the rider as I passed, which sounds like it might have been a good thing in calming the horse a little!

All good advice - make sure they know you're there, slow down, normally check they're ok with me passing at that point if I'm off-road.

Just how many horses have been killed by 'silent' bicycles?

It's more likely to be the rider I imagine, but as the advice is just commonsense, I'm not sure why you'd need a raft of stats before you slow down a bit and let them know you're coming.

"Generally"

What a pile of steaming crap.

Horses generally have good hearing, they'll often hear you before the rider, even if it is only your free hub whirring. However, when the ride jumps this makes the horse nervous and jumpy.

In general I wouldn't shout as I came up behind but a cheery hello will let people know you are there.

Most horses are pretty relaxed. They have limited field of vision
[img] [/img]

http://www.allhorsebreeds.info/819/horse-vision-works/

which is why they often seem to spook at things that have been right in front of them. If you approach from behind and startle them they will turn to see what it is that made the noise. This normally unbalances the rider and makes them nervous which sets of a chain of events where the horse wants to run and the rider doesn't and everyone gets a bits stressed.

My tip would be to look at the horse and the rider. The horse will look at you if it has seen you. Also it will point its ears towards you to listen. If the ears are pricked and forward it is paying attention. IF they are floppy like a donkey you have nothing to worry about. IF they are flat back then I suggest you give it a wide birth.

Short summary, say hello, make a human noise, give room. Horses aren't that scary, they are just like big dogs. It is mostly the size that gives you problems but I've only really ever encountered a handful that are evil - the rest are just behaving naturally.

What a pile of steaming crap.

The advice given on the poster is generally pretty sound. The only thing that i would add is, when travelling in the opposite direction to the horse, consider stopping completely and let the horse/rider pass on their own terms.
Always have a little chat, myself.

IME it's been the horses with nervous riders that seem to be more of a problem.

I've only every had one scary moment when near horses whilst on the bike and I was left with the impression that the horse and rider didn't much like one another.

I'm not a horse person, so could be BS, but I suspect the horse was looking for an excuse to dump the rider based on what I saw way before I was near them 🙂

IME it's been the horses with [s]nervous[/s] riders that seem to be more of a problem.

Ride by horses on every single ride and they never get spooked and just carry on with what they are doing.

Put a rider on one and it is a whole different story. Not sure the nervous/jumpy ones they should be out and about (especially on the road) and not the most sensible thing to do.
Be like me riding a bike which steered itself and went all over the road randomly when a car or bike came past.

I'm not a horsey person so don't know if it's possible but.....

Surely it'd be safer for the rider/owner of a horse to train the horse to 'understand' bikes?

Also the 'don't be a dick' thing applies to the passing cyclist!!

In my experience issues with horses whilst not on the road are caused by inexperienced horse riders not knowing what they are doing. My cousin is a show jumper to a pretty good standard and even she says that you cannot be 100% sure how a horse will react to a given situation on a given day.

On Thursday I stopped and let a couple of horses past. I said a cheery 'Morning!' and was told off as the woman's horse was a bit jumpy when people speak loudly.

I came up behind another later and passed wide and slow. The woman on it's back told me off for not shouting up.

I said 'There's no pleasing some folk' and she ranted on for a full 5 minutes about how dangerous I was.

When she stopped for air I pointed out that she had the words "Pass Wide and Slow" on the back of her jacket; I was only foloowing orders.

If your pet is that twitchy it's not fit to be out in the real world it should be kept away from the public.

Or in a burger.

I "generally" despise horse riders as "generally" they have no common sense and an overwhelming sense of entitlement. Horses are beautiful animals but incredibly silly and selfish pets - 600+kg of slightly unhinged animal ridden by muppets.

Dangerous at both ends and tricky in the middle.

I make it a habit to talk to the animal itself - morning horse, lovely day isn't it, do you mind if I come past, etc. Of course it's really aimed at the rider but it shows I'm a human.

That said I also talk to other animals. Sometimes in a put on voice to suit the animal Johnny Morris style (it's a throwback to when i used to take my kids out in carriers and rucksacks and we'd talk to the animals we saw)

One other 'tip' that may be useful; my sister used to ride a lot and said that some horses seemed to have an issue with sunglasses, mirror lenses particularly, and taking them off so they can see your eyes and recognise a face better helps. Might be BS but if I've slowed or stopped already hardly takes more effort and compared to being sat on by half a tonne of burger meat......

Aye, pretty much that ^ what Daffy says. fortunately I never really encounter them on our local stuff.

It's all a bit

I live in a horseyish part of the world, as noted above the horses reactions to push bikes [i]generally[/i] aren't a problem, the riders and their attitude sometimes cause an issue, otherwise, passing a dobbin without freaking it out isn't that hard, and most of us "silent killers" seem to be doing a shite job when it comes to nervous pony murder...

I always speak as it alerts them in a friendly manner

Like others I am not that comfortable around the massive beast of twitchy barely controlled jitteriness that may take flight at any moment in any direction and when it does it will be "my fault".

That poster is shit IMO

"just before overtaking; shout" - really?!
"stop pedalling", but "buzzing noise" upsets the horse
and "silent killer" is ludicrously melodramatic language

They also need to add what the horse rider will do to assist in all this - presumably they should talk to us so the horse knows there's a human there and that the rider's not afraid of it. Will they stop or will they keep moving? I dunno, suspect that a stationary horse is more easily spooked. Will they move to the side or even off the road briefly to allow us distance, or is this always stuff that others should do for them ?

I ride in the new forest, so very used to passing horses. The wild ones just ignore you, they are happy to walk out in front of trucks... I'll call out, the sound I've heard the verderers doing when they shoo them, often no need to slow down unless they are all across the road or a car is also around.

Horses with riders on, another matter, slow down a bit, move out wide early and call good morning.

Once been told off in all these years, after saying good morning berated for not having a bell, I asked if they'd heard me approaching....which th had as they had responded with the rant....wished them a nice day and rode on. Obviously had woken up on the wrong side of the bed or something.

Never once a startled horses or any type of incident

Its certainly possible for horse to be trained / become used to bikes. On a tour of the netherlands we passed a couple of Horses and riders and the horse just ignored us completely.

In the UK I simply call out - Hi rider - we will =cme past when we can.

do not use your bell - it spooks the stupid things more.

cyclists and horse riders actually have a lot in common in problems / dangers we face from car and truck drivers. Be friendly to them and keep them onside.

I usually stop and let the horse rider come past me unless it's a very wide trail. Either that or wait for them to stop so I can trickle past if it's an overtake.

Lovely looking animals but mad as a box of frogs. My ridings dodgy enough on a bike but put me on a horse and it would be an exponential increase in unpredictability!

Last year I was unloading a bike off a boot mounted rack and that spooked a horse about 50m away throwing it's rider!

Oh and hasty edit, I got thanked this year by a rider for using my bell so you cannot win.

My farts are a silent killer I tell thee.....

I stopped for a girl on a horse and she did not even look up from her phone.

The horse had a phone?

Most horses and riders I've come across are fine as long as you use common sense, did once come across two riders who popped out of a field obscured by a hedge when I was riding along the road then shouted at me for not warning them I was there! Not sure what I was supposed to do in that circumstance.

I "generally" despise horse riders as "generally" they have no common sense and an overwhelming sense of entitlement.

Sounds like cyclists perception of horse riders is similar to car drivers perception of cyclists.

Can't think how long it is since I saw a [s]oversized teddy bear come child substitute[/s] horse wearing blinkers on the road

Used to be standard equipment for flighty horses, back in the day.

Call "hello!" to them. Horses are rarely scared of people but whirry clicky almost silent contraptions can be a different matter!

I've met arse holes and lovely people on horses in equal measure. Pretty much like driving and cycling 🙂

There was a horse coming down the bridleway towards us the other day. we just got off the bikes and waited for him to pass. He decided to come and have a look at the bikes while we scratched his nose.

The rider said he'd never seen a bike before as he was only a young horse. Hopefully he knows that they aren't dangerous now 🙂

BHS need to put out an "official" version of this really, perhaps in conjunction with C-UK would be best.

(I mean the British Horse Society, not the dept store)

I grew up with horses (more than 50 of them). Before backing a young horse we'd go out as a pair, one person leading on foot and the other on a bike. The horse grew very used to the bike and didn't give a toss about them in future.

Horses are extremely good at sensing the mood of a rider and it's more likely that a small twitch from the horse as the bike passes scares them sufficiently to bother the horse further.

If a rider claims their horse is bothered by bikes then it's their responsibility, in my opinion, to find someone with a bike and get their horse used to it.

Don't be a dick applies to all modes of transportation

Surely it'd be safer for the rider/owner of a horse to train the horse to 'understand' bikes?

I've seen horses get startled by things they see everyday.

It goes both ways, one horse rider raised her crop to me once (the only time I've been faced with the potential of violence from another adult) and I've had riders on heavily bridled horses shout at me because they're barely in control of the animal they're riding. But then I've also seen cyclists carelessly pass horses too close, and seen mountain bikers appear onto quiet roads from trails giving it full beans straight into the path of horse riders, and not caring that they've just dangerously startled them.

They're are dicks in all walks of life. Don't be one of them, seems to be the advice here.

Keen to see the stats.

There were around 50,000 horses on the streets of London before the invention of the Safety Bicycle. Now there all dead.

As njee said.

Someone told me to look at a horses ears as I approach from behind, and to speak to the rider. As one talks the ears will point backwards, so the horse knows it's a human behind. For otherwise you could be a deadly alien crisp packet, or worse.

Something similar might apply with dogs and their owners.

Sounds like cyclists perception of horse riders is similar to car drivers perception of cyclists.

Apart from it is not perception. Lived in New Forest for almost 20 years and there are a lot of horse riders.
Most of the ones I have met are way more often than not self entitled but that is because they are self entitled whether on a horse or not so my view is narrow to a certain area.

The simple connection is to look at what sort of person typically has the funds or the internet to own a horse

in New Forest for almost 20 years and there are a lot of horse riders.
Most of the ones I have met are way more often than not self entitled

Possibly a New Forest thing though? Seems to be a bit of an epicentre for small-minded, entitled Tory bell ends.

Wonderful animals, but amazingly unpredictable, so always making them aware of our presence on approach and talking? to them as we pass carefully is good advice.

How am I supposed to win a Strava fantasy race if I have to slow down and treat other people with respect?

Further thoughts about this...

The comments about horses being twitchier with a human on their back does actually correlate with my experiences, so is an interesting factor to consider.

In the future, there may be bigger problems due a new breed of 'Silent killer' - electric vehicles (Which will probably cause issues for all manner of inattentive road users)

I've ridden horses a bit so have some idea about how it's not the rider in control! It also means I appreciate that not all horses are the same - I had the pleasure of being taught mostly on an incredible horse which did just what you asked provided you asked right - was an ex competition show jumper so a big beast and also quite fast when he got going, but I far preferred riding horses like that to those you had to urge forwards all the time.

Anyway, I reckon the advice in that poster to be a bit OTT, and you'd actually come across as a bit aggressive if you followed it. I just make a point of calling out "hello" when I'm well back and continuing talking (though not shouting) whilst going past. Seems rather more friendly, and as others have mentioned the main thing is to make the horse aware you're a human rather than a weird alien.

Sounds like cyclists perception of horse riders is similar to car drivers perception of cyclists.

My "perception" is based on the last 7 years of living in the countryside.

For instance, there's a lane which runs near my house, it's 5 miles long, quite twisty, and mostly its single file with passing places. If it's wet, horse riders will NEVER pull into the passing places. They'll stand on the road, forcing bikes, cars everyone into the passing places. Many of them are totally impassible to a road bike or normal car, but they don't want to get the horse muddy.

On the major B road (decent size, 2 cars can easily pass at speed) near the house, again twisty, but flowing, impossible to see over the dips and hedges, I've been returning home in the car, moving along at 45-50 (it's a 60 limit and you could easily do 80 without straining the car/driver) I've come around the corner to find young girls, on horseback riding 3 abreast, practically in the middle of the road, shouting and gesticulating at me for not slowing down. There was no way to see them until you rounded the corner, and short of an emergency stop, what can drivers/cyclists do.

There's several bridle ways near the house, these are ridden in all weathers (obviously not by the mud avoiders) leaving them utterly impassible for bikes or ramblers (we're talking over 30cms deep of quagmire) for nearly 8 months of the year.

Why? Because someone wants a horse as a pet. A 600kg pet. The sense of self entitlement, that their leisure activity has the right to inconvenience everyone else in the same area, that they're allowed to devastate the local walkways (I can't even walk my son to school without having to use the road, he'd need waders) without any thought or consideration?

Still, I'm always as considerate as I can be when passing/approaching and always say hello and wave, but occasionally it's through gritted teeth.

If horse riding was invented now it's questionable whether they'd be allowed on the road for safety reasons, however it seems churlish to be resentful towards their presence on the roads considering they're so few.

Sounds like cyclists perception of horse riders is similar to car drivers perception of cyclists.

I think Daffy's posts match this assertion, but most people here seem far more tolerant.

Horses belong in fields happily chewing grass, not because some Henrietta wants the sensation of a big throbbing animal between her legs.

dont agree with silent killers, free hubs make an atrocious noise these days

I "generally" despise horse riders as "generally" they have no common sense and an overwhelming sense of entitlement. Horses are beautiful animals but incredibly silly and selfish pets - 600+kg of slightly unhinged animal ridden by muppets.

Dangerous at both ends and tricky in the middle.

generally there are shedloads of horse riders round my neck of the woods , the above can and does apply occasionally ,then theres the us vs them of countryside use which does go on and I'm assuming what the KofP guy is trying to damp down

honestly I've never actually seen a horse up in the peaks they all seem to nimble round langsett and wharncliffe where the E bike razzers and cool kids on gnarpoons who generally don't give a rats ass about "lets all get along" hang about ,and they seem to make up ever increasing numbers who also probably don't come on this little forum or follow twitter

Advice is sound if a little ott, just call out and slow down - if the horse and rider know you're there then potter on passed. If the horse is having a bit of a moment just wait until it chills out and carry on.

As general rule 'don't be a dick' applies to all involved, though it does sadly seem a few on here are firmly in the 'being a dick' camp.

Also worth thinking about is passing horses when you've a bike on the roof of you car, apparently...

person = fine
car = fine
person on bike = usually fine
bike on car = scary monster

They're are dicks in all walks of life.

Including posting melodramatic bullshit on the internet. As lots of the posters above have said, the few arsehole-ish horse riders I have met whilst riding my bike are the ones who seem to be incompetent and thus afraid of a situation they themselves are creating. Generally speaking the majority of those who are competent and confident don't seem to have much of an issue.

depends sometimes you disagree

I had some who were two abreast - IMHO that was not safe on that road at this point- waving me through on the wrong side of a blind bend and then getting irate because i refused and stayed behind them - about 30-40 foot away as i was never going to put myself there - I would have been on the wrong side of the road about 3 foot from the edge on a blind bend with another one about 30 foot away so same thing happened there and they started to get cross and i said it was not safe to pass so i would happily wait. they then got impatient stopped and waved me through,
In the end I turned round and rode a footpath to get to where i wanted avoiding them.

i m not sure they were doing anythign other than trying to help but it was not safe.

For balance i somehow once managed to miss a horse - as in not see it - that was being walked at night [dark] with no lights on and passed about three feet away - by the time i realised it was too late to do anything

I did stop and did apologise and the woman said thankfully you were not kicked in the head She had a point it was totally my error but at least she knew i knew and i had said sorry.

there's no pleasing some people

The trouble is, not all horses (or riders) react the same. I remember passing a group and the one at the back shouted at me for going too fast then the one at the front told me off for going too slow. And in the process of shouting spooked her horse. So sometimes you just can't do the right thing...

Well in my bit of England if I'm in a car I usually get a wave, and if I'm on a bike then some friendly chatter and a smile.

And the women look good in those trousers, so it's worth slowing down.

My experience of interactions between me on a bike and a horse and rider are all good. I call out in plenty of time something like" Hi rider - I'll pass when I can please" if catching them from behind or " Hi - whats the best way to pass" if I meet them coming towards me. Every time the horse rider has made it easy for me to pass and advised what its best for me to do to avoid being trampled by a tonne of barely controlled beast

I'd rather that like the dutch horse and riders I met that the horse were properly trained not to spook at bikes but in the absence of this I find not being an entitled dick helps greatly.

[quote=chakaping ]If [s]horse riding[/s] car driving was invented now it's questionable whether they'd be allowed on the road for safety reasons

Fixed. I have to admit I've not checked the stats - how many people killed on the roads by horses last year?

Of course horses were on the roads way before cars existed. 🙄

And the women look good in those trousers, so it's worth slowing down.

I love horses, they're great cooked rare with chips.

Well in my bit of England if I'm in a car I usually get a wave, and if I'm on a bike then some friendly chatter and a smile.

And the women look good in those trousers, so it's worth slowing down.

I think we might be from the same bit of England. Friendly bunch, always courteous, some of the regulars occasionally even flirtatious in my younger, less gargoyle like days.

I'm a horse rider and mtb'er and unfortunately I have encountered dickish behaviour on both sides.

If passing a horse a warning when your 10m or so behind a asking if it's safe to pass should suffice. Most horses are fine with bikes and if they aren't the rider should take the oppotunity to turn this into a learning situation for the horse. Be sensible though, if the horse is freaking out give the rider time and space. We don't want to hold you up any more then you do but every so often there will be things outwith our control and we may just need you to pause for 30sec while we sort the horse out.

Horseriding, for me, is a hobby just like my bikes. I, and most of the horsey community, get a bit fed up being called entitled or similar just because of peoples perceptions which are usually completely unfounded or based on stereotypes or prejudice. I work hard to afford my horses and to take part in a hobby I adore, same with my bikes.

Great to read so many positive replies and sensible responses - the horsey community thanks you all for your help.

Of course horses were on the roads way before cars existed.

Have you got a degree in stating the bleeding obvious or are you just a talented amateur?

Possibly a New Forest thing though? Seems to be a bit of an epicentre for small-minded, entitled Tory bell ends.

Yep, probably - although I still would say a high proportion of horse riders are going to naturally be from the small minded tory bellend pool.

I would also be amazed if they showed me the respect they want when they pass me in their cars whilst I am cycling. In fact judging by the horse box towing cars I know that is not the case....

Possibly a New Forest thing though? Seems to be a bit of an epicentre for small-minded, entitled Tory bell ends.

I don't get what the issue is, I ride bikes a lot, and I know a lot (certainly more than I know ride bikes) people who ride horses. My 6yr old daughter is one of them ( Isuggest she doesn't want a throbbing animal between her thighs daveextreamist) every time I go out on the bike I encounter horses. I never ever have an issue. I talk to the rider, let them know I'm coming past and they, 100% of the time have a quick chat as ride by and the horse is fine. If ones a bit scatty, keep taking and give it time. Strava will wait!
When I'm out leading my daughter, I've also never had an issue. Cars wait, cyclists are reasonable and everyone seems to get along. Can't work out where all the friction is (other than the new forest where [i]everyone[/i] hates the cyclists) but maybe move to Somerset - it seems people are more tolerant to each other!

Can't work out where all the friction is

a tiny vocal minority - even the BHS agree that there are few real problems with cyclists, especially off-road.

It's really just good manners. Spook a horse and you could end up with an injured rider.

They don't half turn a nice piece of singletrack into a postholed bog though.

My only real gripe is I wish they would pick up their shit.

How dare horse riders use so-called bridleways!!

You can't make this shit up

Horsey folk are like gypsys, I keep hearing how they're good folks, but I've yet to meet that type....

How you give way and act consideratly is a judgement call. However plenty of people have little horse experience and do not realise how spooked a horse can get and the danger they can pose.
I've seen mates slow down and think they have given way but can't tell the horse is getting jittery and the riders concerned. I tend to go over board on the giving way as I have been on a spooked horse and that myself.
The strange thing is generally no one is taught this. So it comes down to individual perception and judgement.

What about electric cars.. Very quiet, hard to hear approaching.. Much more likely to result in a serious accident. Seems like cyclists getting blamed yet again for a near non existent issue..

[quote=cloudnine]What about electric cars.. Very quiet, hard to hear approaching..

they're a bugger to fit on a bridleway though....

I'm generally ok with them in Suffolk. I've only had one bad experience where a group off three cantered uphill around a blind bend on a bridleway and it was my fault that the riders were worried. As posted above there are dicks everywhere, try not to be one.

What about electric cars.. Very quiet, hard to hear approaching..

A good blast on the horn should make them aware...

A few years ago, in my area, a chap was killed by a horse. He was on the front of a tandem, his sister behind, he was kicked on the head. He died, she's left to cope.

They can be vicious killers.

I've never had a problem with horses or horse riders. Then again, where I ride they are normally coming down the up bits. I always stop and let them pass. I have a healthy distrust of large, powerful, rather daft animals and will do all I can to ensure I don't scare them.