[Closed] Big spike in cyclists dying on country roads

My personal favourite is the cutting corners on the opposite side of the road. Relatively open sight lines and they think they can see it is clear as no oncoming car. Nearly been wiped out head on a couple of times like that.

Not really surprising given the increase in the numbers of people cycling and drivers speeding. Hopefully it'll settle down.

EDIT - horses have a far greater likelihood of damaging the car and driver than a cyclist. Sadly might is right for a lot of people.

I'm interested into what the 'needs' of rural drivers are, and how I can respect them more when I'm out riding. Hopefully not just getting to town as quickly as humanly possible.

I’m interested into what the ‘needs’ of rural drivers are, and how I can respect them more when I’m out riding. Hopefully not just getting to town as quickly as humanly possible.

There are quite a few roads around me that're 3-5km of single lane road. I regularly see cyclists riding up them who will refuse to pull into a passing place to allow a delivery van to pass. The van driver is just trying to do his job, full over for 10 seconds to save him 5 mins. If he gets this on every country road, it'll directly affect his income.

At the height of lockdown it was pretty pleasant but then got worse since still lower numbers of cars and a fair few of those seemed to be treating it as an opportunity to drive like idiots.
With regards to the patience around horses I think it just comes down to people recognising that a ton of scared animal can still hurt them in their steel and glass castle whereas a cyclist not so much.
I did almost get taken out once by someone giving a horse so much room they almost hit me on a rather wide road. I guess waiting a few more seconds would have delayed their obviously urgent trip.

full over for 10 seconds to save him 5 mins. If he gets this on every country road, it’ll directly affect his income..

And when he meets oncoming traffic and holds up the rider (who is trying to get to their own place of work and make some money, seeing as we're in fantasyland), presumably the van will pull over and let the cyclist past?

Rural roads are essentially treated as a racetrack, and it's the overtake with oncoming traffic that's a big issue. Drivers just ignore that you are there as they go past as fast as they can, all for a couple of seconds

I always pull over if holding up a queue or large vehicle.

With regards to the patience around horses I think it just comes down to people recognising that a ton of scared animal can still hurt them in their steel and glass castle whereas a cyclist not so much

Speaking as a driver it’s more to do with the horse getting spooked and hurting the rider. But I try to be patient and courteous with all why would anyone wish to endanger other road-users is beyond my thinking.

I did almost get taken out once by someone giving a horse so much room they almost hit me on a rather wide road.

I've had this the other way round. Driver giving us loads of room, nice safe overtake at a sensible speed - only problem being there was a car coming the other way! Brainfart moment I suppose, but quite alarming especially for the oncoming car who was JDA entirely reasonably.

Driver giving us loads of room, nice safe overtake at a sensible speed – only problem being there was a car coming the other way!

Had this quite a few times. Once a Range Rover fully in the opposite lane on a blind bend.

The horror on the faces of the oncoming car's occupants.

I didn’t used to think that the driving round here (Shropshire) was too bad, but in the last year I’ve seen more appalling driving than I’ve seen in the last decade. That’s from the perspective of a driver, cyclist and walker. The latter is the most ridiculous, people mounting kerbs because they were driving too quickly to stop on a narrow village road, or people just driving straight into the back of parked cars, again because they were probably driving at nearly double the speed limit in a village. Driving really seems to have got worse, not just from a speed perspective but from a total lack of respect for anyone else on the road. No idea what the answer is!

One of the country roads near us, only just wide enough for two cars, a car decided to overtake me (on my bike) at about 70 mph, skimmed my arm and if the driver on the other side of the road hadn’t mounted the curb, it would have been a nasty crash. Sadly, we didn’t get a number plate, pretty shocking behaviour.

As well as shocking driving, plenty of my mates hit dream world whilst riding on rural roads. Sure it's nice riding full abreast nattering and wheeling on roads without markings but not when approaching a blind bend.

I always pull over if holding up a queue or large vehicle.

I pull over whenever sensible on the country roads. Delivery drivers sometimes lose out though since they seem to think waiting an inch behind me is going to get me to move out the way. Which fails on the grounds it renders quite a few pull over points unsafe due the nonzero chance of coming off.

I pull over whenever sensible on the country roads. Delivery drivers sometimes lose out though since they seem to think waiting an inch behind me is going to get me to move out the way. Which fails on the grounds it renders quite a few pull over points unsafe due the nonzero chance of coming off.

Exactly. 'Whenever sensible' is the phrase that so many road users forget about.

Interesting positioning - I had a quick look for the raw data/report and couldn't see it (I don't trust journalist reports that call things a spike when they have yet to come back down!).

However if I understood the 2020 casualty stats correctly (which are all roads not just rural ones):

________killed_____serious injury____minor injury__miles ridden (billions)
2004_____134_____________2174__________14340______2.6
..
2010_____111_____________2660__________13220______3.0
..
2018______99_____________3693__________13758______3.3
2019_____100_____________3657__________13127______3.5
2020_____141_____________3828__________12325______5.0

We've pretty much doubled the no of miles cycled since 2004 but only marginally increased deaths and injuries have fallen (but with a shift towards more serious)... the last time we had 4 Billion miles a year being cycled was the mid 80s and twice as many people were being killed on bikes (despite car traffic being lower).

I'm all for making our roads safer but we need to be careful that headlines like this don't put people off cycling.

you obviously dont ride a horse then!!

That bbc report is shockingly poor. No links to any data at all so you have to go looking for it.

Plus there's absolutely nothing in the report about why the fatalities happened. None! This could be about cyclists riding into bends too fast and falling off cliffs FFS. Again, it's whitewashing the problem - as Poly says, it's implying cycling is the problem rather than something else (I'm not going to speculate, but I think we all know what the issue is).

That bbc report is shockingly poor.

It's been turned round from an NFU press release, I suspect.

Funny how BC are involved but not C-UK, who typically do more campaign work. We might have seen a more coherent message if C-UK were on the job. Shame they can't seem to work together.

it’s implying cycling is the problem rather than something else

I disagree with this, I just read it as implying that motor vehicle drivers are killing more people.

I once watched a video from an American road safety expert who said that that the best way to cut accidents was to 'do away' with all the in-car safety equipment and put a big spike in the middle of the steering wheel!! Anyway how can there be a big spike in road deaths if they all died from Covid anyway!!

@Rich_s - it's not a report by the BBC, its free advertising for NFU!

@poly - I did the same, looked at the data. Though I couldn't find the exact corresponding numbers to the NFU. Relative chance of serious injury/death has dropped, this is good. They've put a negative spin, on a good news story. Typical. Why didn't they say, look fantastic, more bikes less danger, lets encourage even more. Ah, no profit in that!

I wonder how many of the casualties are new riders, on e-bikes, in places they wouldn't be on a normal bike. I regularly see, what look like inexperienced riders, on e-bikes going up a very steep and busy hill near me. They are slow, and end up riding in the gutters, where car/van drivers force their way past dangerously. There are multiple ways up the same hill that are more suitable for bikes, but the car driver turned e-bike rider is blissfully unaware of the better choices. The same probably happens on relatively dangerous A-roads too.

And when he meets oncoming traffic and holds up the rider (who is trying to get to their own place of work and make some money, seeing as we’re in fantasyland), presumably the van will pull over and let the cyclist past?

@IdleJon: Don't be obtuse. There are passing places all over the lanes and over 5km, a cyclist doing 20kph uphill is far more likely to obstruct a van than a van having to negotiate an oncoming car is to slow down a cyclist over the total length of the lane.

A thinking person would probably wait rather than overtake the van and again have a van up their backside for however many km.

Don’t be obtuse. There are passing places all over the lanes and over 5km, a cyclist doing 20kph uphill is far more likely to obstruct a van than a van having to negotiate an oncoming car is to slow down a cyclist over the total length of the lane.

Oh I've had this plenty of times. Singletrack road, car overtakes, goes round the next corner and there's a tractor coming. Car slams on, tries to reverse, cyclist has to take evasive action.

If they'd just have let the cyclist go, not forced their way through then it would have been much simpler for all concerned.

If I can see it's clear for a reasonable distance ahead, I'll try and pull in / pull over / slow down to allow a vehicle behind to overtake. If I can't see that then they can stay there until it's safe for ALL of us.

Funny how everyone is desperate to pass the freeloading, non-road-tax paying cyclist but when it comes to a freeloading, non-road-tax paying tractor or a freeloading, non-road-tax paying horse, that argument is never used...?!

@IdleJon: Don’t be obtuse. There are passing places all over the lanes and over 5km, a cyclist doing 20kph uphill is far more likely to obstruct a van than a van having to negotiate an oncoming car is to slow down a cyclist over the total length of the lane.

A thinking person would probably wait rather than overtake the van and again have a van up their backside for however many km.

If you post a specific scenario where a van might get held up, there are plenty of scenarios where the van holds up other traffic. I'm not being obtuse, just argumentative. 😀

As I said after I replied to your post -

I pull over whenever sensible on the country roads. Delivery drivers sometimes lose out though since they seem to think waiting an inch behind me is going to get me to move out the way. Which fails on the grounds it renders quite a few pull over points unsafe due the nonzero chance of coming off.

Exactly. ‘Whenever sensible’ is the phrase that so many road users forget about.

Between 2018 and 2020, there were 3,115 fatalities on rural roads in England, and 1,880 on urban ones. During the same two-year period, almost 30,000 people were seriously injured on rural roads.

I'm confused. Rural roads and Urban roads. Is that it? By that definition is the M1 a 'rural road' then? Not quite the image of rural road they were conjuring up. Also, I fear there may have been some lazy UK, Great Britain and England stats mix up too as those figures appear to be for the UK.

Oh I’ve had this plenty of times. Singletrack road, car overtakes, goes round the next corner and there’s a tractor coming.

I've had a driver have a go at me for overtaking a stationary traffic jam in the lanes - caused by a main road closure and cars then trying to push their way through the narrow bits. I should have waited in the huge queue seemed to be the gist.

It's not exactly hugely different from the past, my own experience, i've never seen a roadie pull over and let traffic past, i've seen tractors, horses, MTBs, etc do it, but never a roadie.

Same thing with the lanes to the east from me, roadies tend to race them, i know the tight spots, so i know if i see a group or individual, this will be a slow day, you just suck it up, roadies race and don't want to stop, that's part of their training.

I find the issue is folk who just don't understand the lanes well being a huge issue, almost had an amazon van driver go into the front of us at a bit with 3 tight bends in a row, he was fully on our side and cut the whole corner, not on purpose, but because he had too much speed, same with a roadie a few weeks back to was using the racing line around those bends, they were cutting it for speed, and if i'd been a second earlier it would have been a close one.

I guess in short, we all have our own priorities when out and about, if i'm driving the lanes, it's just getting from A to B, never do them for work or the likes, so not in a hurry, but delivery drivers, they're priority is the next delivery, roadies, well they're out there for a reason, to do some type of training or racing, you won't change any of the mindsets, but would be nice to see some more cycle lanes or the likes cut around the country to minimise this.

i’ve never seen a roadie pull over and let traffic past

Come pootling behind me then - I do it all the time. It'll make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

Come pootling behind me then – I do it all the time. It’ll make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

Yep, if I'm - or my group - is causing a hold up, I'll pull over as and when it is safe to do so, per Highway Code.

This thread has descended onto anecdotal what about whatabouttery very fast, even by our usual standards

We’ve pretty much doubled the no of miles cycled since 2004 but only marginally increased deaths and injuries have fallen (but with a shift towards more serious)… the last time we had 4 Billion miles a year being cycled was the mid 80s and twice as many people were being killed on bikes (despite car traffic being lower).

This.

I’m at a loss as to how anecdotes about pulling over relate to this. They belong in a completely different context—probably a thread entitled “do you have a chip on your shoulder?”.

The true message seems to be “go out on a bike, you seem to be at roughly half as much risk as you were 15 years ago.”

Of course, regardless of how much anyone wants to ride or not, the message we should all take away is “never, ever take statistics in commercial press releases at face value.”

Thank goodness there are some people who pay attention to that one 🙂

Looking at the figures posted by poly, taking 2018 as a base, deaths and injuries per mile ridden are down each year in 2019 and 2020.

OK - I've found the data:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-pedal-cyclist-factsheet-2020/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-pedal-cycle-factsheet-2020#what-type-of-road

It does also include the definition of urban v's rural roads. If I understand it correctly a motorway in the middle of nowhere is a rural road, a residential area in a small village is a rural road, a small backroad on the outskirts of a large town, lined with trees and few houses would be an urban road, a 40mph road through the middle of a medium sized town is an urban road but a 20mph limit through a much smaller town is a rural road - however, like the causative factors table I assume its a tick box selected by the reporting police officer so may be subject to their interpretation/bias too. It is interesting to me that so many cases are away from junctions.

argee, it's often hard to see anything with your head up you ass (I expect)

anagallis_arvensis
Free Member
argee, it’s often hard to see anything with your head up you ass (I expect)

You've not really read what i have written, just the usual assumption based response.

You’ve not really read what i have written

How would you deduce that?
I read exactly what you wrote. Did a roadie make off with your wife or something?

I know that the gloves seem to be off again after a brief spell of conscientiousness early in 2020 due to the early lockdown and its general message of looking after others.

The number of motor vehicles that are now being 'piloted' rather than 'driven' feels higher than ever. Especially vans and chavpanzers.

Incidentally, there are two types of vehicle I don't think I've ever seen being driven at anything other than warp speed.

Seat Leons and BT Openreach vans. I understand that the former is actively targeted at reckless young drivers, but do BT Openreach actually install nitrous and drag chutes in their vans?

I live in rural Dorset and drive and MTB the local lanes. The simple fact is that in rural areas you can legally drive much faster than in towns and cities and therefore when an accident happens you are more likely to be killed. In line with the quoted cyclist stats more vehicle occupants are killed on rural roads than in built up areas. The interesting part of these stats, as a few people have mentioned, is the increased number of cyclists and the number of miles they are doing. Without delving too deep into the stats it looks like there are now fewer deaths when looked at from this perspective.

If you want to look at stats in a more realistic/objective way read The Tiger That Isn't by Michael Blastland & Andrew Dilnot. It will make you look at stats in a completely different way.

I recently attended a Driver Awareness Course and apparently UK drivers are the 4th best in the world, hard to believe I know, the figures came from the World Health Organisation. We are only bettered by Norway, Sweden and Holland.

i’ve never seen a roadie pull over and let traffic past

I ride home from work on a lot of single lane roads - I often wave people past. Not exactly "traffic" cos there's hardly ever more than one vehicle.
(However, I'm definitely not a roadie even though my bike does have drop-bars 😀 )

I avoid rat run country roads that are viable as an option for folk avoiding A roads at busy times etc, also used to work with an old fella that took the back roads into work on the nightshift to avoid the breathalysers.

Rumours that this was a drink drive issue too, bloody sad -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59503667

If you want to look at stats in a more realistic/objective way read The Tiger That Isn’t by Michael Blastland & Andrew Dilnot. It will make you look at stats in a completely different way.

Can I add The Norm Chronicles as a really good read to get your head around some of the stats as well :

https://uk.bookshop.org/books/the-norm-chronicles-stories-and-numbers-about-danger/9781846686214

i’ve never seen a roadie pull over and let traffic past

We do, all the time.

Sadly the group of 14 along Loch Venechar, Brig O Turk and Loch Archray last Saturday did not - they even wandered over white line on the few opportunities a car could have overtaken, meaning I slowed and backed off when other German Whips would have piled through at speed...

Once more we are back to RuleNo1 and learning to share.

Maybe it's only the ones with the big spikes in them who are dying? (Sorry, I'll get etc... )

Singletrack must be the only 'cycling' forum in existence where killing people on bikes is rationalised because some cyclists ocassionally slow traffic down. This place makes me sick sometimes.

Singletrack must be the only ‘cycling’ forum in existence where killing people on bikes is rationalised because some cyclists ocassionally slow traffic down. This place makes me sick sometimes.

If you can point to where anyone has said that please show us, as I have missed that.

matt_outandabout
Full Member
i’ve never seen a roadie pull over and let traffic past

We do, all the time.

Sadly the group of 14 along Loch Venechar, Brig O Turk and Loch Archray last Saturday did not – they even wandered over white line on the few opportunities a car could have overtaken, meaning I slowed and backed off when other German Whips would have piled through at speed…

Once more we are back to RuleNo1 and learning to share.

I should have said, when i say the word roadie i'm on about the racing variety, in full kit flying along, not the tourers on a sunday, but again, as stated in my previous statement, that's what they're out for, i wouldn't expect them to pull over all the time when they're out for miles and timings.

But again, we all use the same lanes, we can pick on van drivers, but they again are using those lanes for a reason, same with horse riders, walkers, etc, they are just dangerous, i just avoid lanes as much as possible around here

...they are just dangerous, i just avoid lanes as much as possible around here

WhreasI avoid fast A roads for the same reason.

I should have said, when i say the word roadie i’m on about the racing variety, in full kit flying along, not the tourers on a sunday, but again, as stated in my previous statement, that’s what they’re out for, i wouldn’t expect them to pull over all the time when they’re out for miles and timings.

When I'm out for a fast ride I don't use the sort of lanes where you need to pull over for other cars, you simply cannot go properly fast on those.

i’ve never seen a roadie pull over and let traffic past

I do it all the time, in fact I do it when I'm ride leading too - most of what I consider ride leading is traffic management. IME (how much of this is bias I don't know) traffic tends to behave a bit better when they can see you're making some sort of effort to help.

That total arse of a lawyer has been on Twitter, picking up on the "data" and once again using it as an excuse to bash cyclists. They should immediately move out of the way of cars he says. ****er.

i just avoid lanes as much as possible

Riding on the lanes is the preferred option for most recreational roadies, is it not?

Much more pleasant and usually less threatening than the bigger / more urban roads.

I pull over in tight lanes all the time

I pull over in tight lanes all the time

It is interesting to me that so many cases are away from junctions.

Number one cause of deaths on a rural roads for cyclists is being hit from behind by a driver not looking.

Although drivers tend to slow down much more for horses (not all, it's not unusual for a close pass or some scumbag to gas it past and then lift off for pops and crackles), the general speed on country lanes means even well meaning drivers often struggle to slow down once we come into view, resulting in passing too fast, skidding, or dropping two wheels off the edge of the road, spraying mud and water across the road beneath the car and under the horse as they pound through a couple of pot holes.

On the other hand, the 'say hi to horse riders' before getting too close seems to be getting more common, probably half of riders now call out hello which means both horse and rider know you are there (as trying to pass silently just makes everyone jump... including the cyclist moments after the horse does!)

My road bike is sitting unloved in the garage for this very reason. I love getting out on the road bike and hearing the hum of tyres on tarmac, but I refuse to become a statistic. As a cyclist I experienced too many close passes, and as a driver I see too many instances of drivers who don’t know what to do when faced with a cyclist.

9/10 I don’t think it’s aggressive behaviour. It’s just a general lack of awareness.

Yes, I have every right to cycle on the roads, but there’s no point in being right when you lying on the tarmac next to a Nissan Qasqai that’s parked on to of your bike.

Rockamdrollmark

It's about 30 deaths per billion miles compared to 2 per billion miles in a car. It's not a massive risk.

Rockamdrollmark

It’s about 30 deaths per billion miles compared to 2 per billion miles in a car. It’s not a massive risk.

Very much this.

I've ridden probably 3k miles a year on the roads for the last 18 years. I've never been hit by a car. Been assaulted once by a driver when I've over reacted to some abuse, but never been hit. And this includes rush hour commuting.

Yes, there's passes that are too close, maybe one every 2-3 rides. Doing Bikeability when I got the chance really upped my game in terms of reducing bad passes and therefore less stress and worry about riding. But I can't remember - and I'm up to 2000 road miles this year, when I last felt genuinely scared. And I suffer with anxiety and depression, everything is a huge issue in my head.

But not this.

We sit on forums and swap tales of close passes and we talk each other out of it. And every time one of us gives up riding on the road those bastards have won. And I'm damned if I'm going to be bullied into giving up doing what I love, because of underresourced enforcement. Literally "over my dead body". I'm not (that) militant about it, but I'll be ****ed if I'm going to let ****s in cars intimidate me off the roads.

I wonder how much modern tractors are responsible on rural lanes. Had a few close calls recently where I've had to pretty much jump into a hedge because some behemoth has been charging at me.

I always pull over if there's an opportunity. I love getting a little 'toot toot' of thanks from good drivers, although there's also an occasional angry face and shaking fist from someone upset that I 'delayed them' for 15 seconds.

Sadly the group of 14 ... did not – they even wandered over white line on the few opportunities a car could have overtaken

I'm struggling to see how there could ever have been a [safe] opportunity to overtake 14 cyclists

Unless you know that road extremely well - which you might, if local - I don’t see how you can say that.

14 riders two abreast as a large group should be is a similar length to a coach, and much slower.

It’s quite possible that could be safely done, depending on sight lines.

Or not at all, depending.

Of course if they aren’t doing their bit re rule 1 then staying behind is likely the only safe option, so we’ll done

I’m damned if I’m going to be bullied into giving up doing what I love

Same here. I'd rather take the tiny risk of danger on the roads than the mental health risks by giving it up and driving everywhere (in my inadequately sod, death trap of a car 😆 )

Yep, it is a small risk and you can mitigate it to some extent.
For example, every time I get to one of the many blind bends on my rides I know most cars coming up behind will try and overtake.
As I am on a bike I can hear if cars are coming the other way and 95% of the time they are not so I just let the car pass. If I can hear a car I indicate right and move to middle of the road which stops any overtake attempt most of the time although just last week a driver still tried to overtake and then had to stop when they saw the oncoming car so although not fail safe I am partly in control of it as I know what is likely to happen.
Of course I should not have to do this as a driver should know not to overtake on a blind bend but I am not going to stop cycling because of that.

It’s about 30 deaths per billion miles compared to 2 per billion miles in a car. It’s not a massive risk.

It's not just the statistics for me... Yes, in all the years I spent riding country roads I'm still not dead. I just don't find it that relaxing any more, so hung up my disco slippers about four years ago. Perhaps it's age, but to me it feels that in recent years driving standards have gone down, and volume of traffic (and general contempt for people from tribes other than your own - i.e. cyclists versus cars) has gone up. Increasingly my rides would be "punctuated" with "an incident" which meant rather than returning home all zen, I'd be irritated. And all of this on country roads flanked by major A roads, so typically only local traffic.

Yes, as far as I'm concerned they've won. The X5s and the Range Rovers can have the tarmac. I'll take the singletrack, thanks.

Well the NFU input (actually NFU Mutual) into this is less than impressive. Putting the onus on the cyclist again.

Rural Road Safety Prize Draw

If the NFU has anything to do with this, it’ll be a precursor to a request that the government ban cyclists from country roads “for their own safety “. They have already, and with a straight face, demanded they be allowed to close any public right of way, at any time and with no warning and no diversions, for up to 5 months of the year, because 4 people got killed by livestock last year.

I wonder how much modern tractors are responsible on rural lanes. Had a few close calls recently where I’ve had to pretty much jump into a hedge because some behemoth has been charging at me.

I have recently discovered that most tractor drivers here in Norfolk are contractors who are basically on a price per job which explains why they are so intent on getting to their next job as quickly as possible. The fact a lone cyclist might well slow them down means I have learned to keep out of the way.