[Closed] Beta blockers (or, should I get a gavel bike!)

I'm not one to dissuade anyone getting a new bike, but you could spend your money lightening the Swift.

The frame of the bike is only part of the weight of the bike, eg my old Scandal frame was about a kilo lighter than my Swift frame.

Thus if you buy a significantly lighter bike, you'll find most of the weight saving is in the actual components.

The best place to save weight on a bike is the wheels IMO, so that's where I would start.

I'd be reeeeeeeeally really careful, my experience of gravel bikes (one adapted 29er MTB and one 'proper' gravel bike) is that they seem to ride best when ridden hard. I've found it very hard to 'take it easy' on the gravel bike and if I want to go out for an easy spin/recovery ride I'll take the road bike instead.

I think if I wanted to go off-road but still take it easy I'd be inclined to get a 29er full suss, part of the reason I feel I *need* to ride hard on the gravel bike is that this is how it handles best over the bumps, below a certain speed it just feels like it's slamming into them, above a certain speed it feels like it's skimming over them.

There’s nothing about riding my gravel bike that means I’m taking it easier.

If anything it’s the bike I’m working hardest on.

part of the reason I feel I *need* to ride hard on the gravel bike is that this is how it handles best over the bumps, below a certain speed it just feels like it’s slamming into them, above a certain speed it feels like it’s skimming over them.

Wot he said

You dont mention your age.

I think you should think again about a an e-bike. Probably a gravel e-bike.

If not then a gravel bike would be a great option, dont go 1x though it wont help you on the climbs. With a 2x you woulb be able to spin up anything.

What cadence are climbing at? I tend to spin fast but have recently tried slowing it down and pushing a slightly bigger gear instead, it seems to keep my heart rate lower doing it that way.

What cadence are climbing at? I tend to spin fast but have recently tried slowing it down and pushing a slightly bigger gear instead, it seems to keep my heart rate lower doing it that way.

I'd agree with that ^

I like higher cadences in general but notice when I'm riding with a heart rate monitor that I can keep my HR under control a bit better if I change to a higher gear/lower cadence. It's a trade off between pushing hard but low cadence or pushing less hard but having to move the weight of your legs more!

emtb? I put more effort in on my gravel and tourer for ‘skim the terrain’ reasons mentioned (and the more aero posture options)

So either emtb or a hybrid with extended range? Or shorter range and lighter that can also be pedalled without assistance? Don’t know if that’s a thing.

Maybe something like the Cannondale Quick Neo?

https://www.cannondale.com/en/bikes/electric/e-fitness/quick-neo-sl/quick-neo-sl-1?sku=c63300m10lg

As soon as I read this I thought E-bike. Spot on candidate for one. Just adjust to give you work out you want / need that day.

Increased cadence in same gear increases heart rate for me.

A lighter bike will improve the effective W/Kg of you on a bike fighting gravity, if you want to stay clear of an e-bike for now.

eBikes don't have to be 'that' expensive. I have one of these and its ace.

https://www.merlincycles.com/wilier-e-adventure-gravel-e-bike-173101.html

I'm in Dursley, Gloucestershire if you wanna take it for a test ride, size medium.

It's probably about finding a level you can sustain. If you have a HRM then maybe have a play with zones and see if you can find a tempo you are comfortable at?

Whilst new bikes are of course great, I can't see that a change will help all that much on the same trails. You're understandably frustrated that you can't reach a previous level but you may just have to learn how to cope with that fact, and work on finding a new level.

I don't think gravel bikes are good for pootling, either. But that said, they may open up new possibilities of places to go / ride which in turn gives some novelty / spark to your riding (without requiring intense efforts).

I'm not sure the bike change is the solution. I have a HT carbon 29er which I use for small local riding, and a FS for proper off road. To me it's all about the effort you put in. Most gravel bikes have higher gearing so you can end up in the same difficulty zone quite easily. I think it's a state of mind; we tend to "think" we should be quicker on certain types of bike and it's natural to feel you have to be quicker but it's a mindset that is best to avoid in your condition. I am over 70 and it's so easy to try and keep up with younger riders and even, dare I say, Strava times. I quite often have to take a reality check!

Good to hear you are getting back out. I’ve commented on a few of your threads in the past as I have lesser heart issues, with some non obstructive narrowing and daily meds to keep it safe (I hope...).

I need to keep away from HR spikes and am supposed to ride tempo, with minimal straying into threshold zones. I find I can do this ok on my gravel bikes (Fugio and CDF) without too much issue. I was finding it hard on the MTB though so eventually ended up with a Spesh Creo SL, which has been completely transformational for me.

I like it so much I sold my carbon road bike and bought a Creo SL too. The Creo comes in road and gravel variants. I went for full road as my Fugio 30 is only a few months old, but I reckon the gravel one (Evo) would be an absolute hoot to ride.

I've posted on a few gravel bike threads and agree with the others- if you go slow across rough terrain on a gravel bike its more uncomfortable due to smaller rubber and only feels good when going fast( in fact Im just re-building a swift in lightweight guise as the antedote!) but my main point is I got bad Covid in May and as a result my lungs are compromised ( not sure if permanent) so bought an emtb - I still get a good workout by only using eco but you can pick your battles more easily and dial in the assist as you need it which can only be a good thing- still feel a bit of a fraud but Im having much more fun than if I was limited to short rides.

I appreciate that part of my heart is dead, so I’ll never get back to where I was, and also that my fitness is poor, but I just can’t seem to get my heart rate above 150 bpm (I’m on beta blockers morning and evening and coming off them isn’t an option) and wonder if this is part of the problem.

Do you know what your heart rate was like on a ride before your issues?

I've not had a heart attack and my last 35 mile off road ride didn't see over 148bpm and I very rarely see much higher than 168.

Some hearts just don't rev that high. Maybe speak to your doc if you're worried.

A gravel bike can have any gearing you like. Well with a bit of thought.

Thanks for all the input, there's plenty to think about.

To answer a few questions, I'll be 54 next month. I could look at lightening up the Swift - I've got a nice carbon fork that'll save a pound or so (just liking the look of the steel Swift forks at the moment); I've even wondered putting a drop bar on it.

I've no idea what my heart rate was prior to the attacks, I was decently fit and never really worried about it. I got a heart rate monitor (to link up to my Garmin) when the nurses at the Cardiac Rehab. group I attended set me a heart rate of around 135bpm for exercise.

I do have a cadence sensor linked up to my Garmin but I'm not sure that I've ever clocked what cadence I climb at. In the above example I'd dropped rapidly through the gears into the lowest after which my cadence dropped until a ground to a gasping halt (once I'd gotten my breath back I was okay for a bit).

I probably need to build up some more fitness, although I don't know how my heart damage & the beta blockers will affect things.

I do like the idea of a gravel bike (I've been looking since last November) as the majority of my time is on road (and I'm a total no skills off road rider that just trundles about) but now doesn't seem a great time to buy. I'll keep an eye open though.

I think heta blockers affect performance if you are still on them

I'm on beta blockers. Been on them for about 8 years. I'm now 44. HR max was about 195bpm prior to going on them, after about 165-170 at a push, more like 160 now. It felt awful, like I'd been throttled back.

Now, I've not had a heart attack like you, so can't really compare, mine is preventative due to a congenital heart defect.

What I will say is that it took several months to get used to exercising whilst on them, I'd ride and it would feel like I'd hit a brick wall when HR maxed out (usually downhill on the MTB) I used to be quick uphill as well, usually fastest in my normal group, reasonable quick roadie as well.

Nowadays I accept that I'm never going to be that fast again, but I have got used to them, my body has adapted, I've built muscle (or maybe fat, lol) and happily ride with a lower heart rate and still go quick enough downhill to scare myself.

Take your time, accept that it's a big big change, buy an ebike (seriously) and just enjoy being out being able to ride. That alone is the best medicine

Very different circumstances but just for info that I’m on a low BB dose for occasional arythmia and my max HR dropped since taking them. Used to be 195 bpm, now rarely gets above 175 and that is on a low dose. Cardiology friend suggested to me judging perceived exertion eg level you can breath/talk whilst exercising as better guide than absolute numbers. All that said my circumstances are v different so take specific advice.

If I'd known where I was going to be now when I bought my new gravel bike a year ago I'd have got an e-gravel bike.

I got a top stone (2x sub compact) and added a bigger cassette too, to allow spinner climbing, but my heart still isn't happy. As someone stated above I've actually now tried to have a lower cadence on climbs to keep hr down more.

I'm supposed to be on calcium reuptake inhibitors as beta blockers were just too awful, but these also leave me feeling grotty, just not so bad. Both reduced my heart rate considerably and so my power too.

I get micro angina as my main obvious symptom which doesn't seem to respond to gtn spray or aspirin. If I work hard or long it gets bad. Had to cut a few long (steady but hilly) road rides short this year due to it (by 4-5 hours I was feeling ill). this weekend with a 2.45hr ride Saturday and 1 hour ride Sunday (steady, but can't avoid hills) I've had discomfort Sunday evening and rested all day Monday despite the rest.

I'm waiting for a new exercise stress test, and discussion with cardiologist, but in the past he's been hopeless re advice on riding and hr/time limits.

I hate the meds as they don't help my symptoms, I just feel the negatives of them.

I'm pretty much at a point where I'm not sure meaningful cycling is going to happen. Occasional easy family cycles seem fine, but cycling good rides with friends or bike packing seem to be realistically out 😢👎 I do wish I'd bought an ebike!

I would have thought that you were the perfect candidate for an e-bike of some kind. I know you say you’re not a fan but I think you should definitely consider/try one

I appreciate folk sharing, thanks. I suspect that my issues are a combination of things - certainly the beta blockers but also dead heart muscle, lack of fitness and a nervousness about really going at it hard (the big heart attack certainly occurred whilst cycling and I suspect that the second one did too).

Covid-19 has pretty much put pay to consultations although I'm due a face-to-face sometime in December; with covid on the increase this might not happen either. I did have surprise telephone consultation following the second heart attack where I had the go ahead to cycle again. I also spoke with my GP when started getting angina & further chest pain; they seem to think that it was okay to carry on cycling if the GTN spray worked (although it's not ideal).

I'll look at cadence (I do have a sensor linked up to my Garmin) although the climb I mentioned in the OP had me dropping through the gears rapidly, until I hit bottom, and then the cadence rapidly dropping off too, until I hit a gasping halt.

I'll have another think about an e-bike, but I think I'll struggle to convince myself. I'll think about gravel bikes too, but either way the market's not very conducive to buying at the moment anyway (I'm wondering whether, in the New Year, when the weather's poor and the Christmas bills are in, the second hand market might pick up forcing the retail market to have to respond with some deals).

@longdog, I hope that things improve for you soon. Have you thought about asking on here about any decent aftermarket e-motor conversion kits? I'm sure that there must be something that's workable.

@PJay cheers. I have thought about the bfang(?) conversions but they are pretty fugly.

Yeh, my clinics for heart and wrists have been all cancelled too. But then I suddenly got a letter for the stress test for today, when we're away! So likely another 3-4week til next appointment date.

but I just can’t seem to get my heart rate above 150 bpm (I’m on beta blockers morning and evening and coming off them isn’t an option) and wonder if this is part of the problem.

The BB are doing exactly what they're supposed to, acting like a rev limiter on your heart to stop you over exerting it.

Been on them myself, for anxiety, and it was just the same.

Does seem an ideal case for a low wattage eBike, where you do most of the work but get a 50-100W boost from the motor to make up for the weaker heart muscle.