[Closed] Best bang for buck component wise on Emtb ?

Does having the “best” components matter? I want the right geometry, electronics that work and a shop to help out if it goes wrong, and then good suspension and brakes.

So I got a base model Levo but had my LBS put a Lyrik and some Hope V4s on it. Cost £4.5k - but that was two years ago, before Covid madness...

Canyon torque on looks decent vfm

Does having the “best” components matter?

Well yeah it does, for me at least.

Seems to be a fair number offering much the same at much the same price, but when it comes to the actual 'sus' bits, there is quite a marked difference. Fox 36 or RS recon silver, I think those two cannot be compared. To many appear to by lowering fork spec to suntour, but asking similar money.

Geometry is either AM or trail and again much the same across the board on either discipline. 😕 Small differences, but not so much someone like myself would notice.
I dont think we can really compare between the two main - yam or shim motor wise, and some opt 500w, where others opt 625w, and id prefer the larger mainly just for increased range.

Overall I feel its a juggling act. Try to get the best specced sus bits, a good dropper, reasonable brakes(Though there ive a new set of hope e4 to swop over. Also the drivetrain ive new XO sram kit i'd be replacing. So for me at least its frame, fork,shock and power system.

As its a burgeoning sport(OK been ebikes a while, but honestly its only really since 2019 or 2018 that thew main players have included ebikes in their ranges, and you usually find some up the spec, taking less profit in order to attract the buyers, knowing that their buyers are pretty clued up on bikes and spec already, whereas you always find the newer boutique brands seem to opt for lesser spec, knowing those type of customers see a sus fork as a sus fork, and disc brakes as disc brakes and dont really know the comparisons.

In many cases its one £4k bike with a fox 34 or 36, and a similar £4k priced bike with a suntour fork, often the coil version, which comes in at a snip over 6 Fing lbs.

It's a big outlay for me, and i dont have money to burn as im on disability, in fact ive sold much of my 15 year collected bike collection to pay for this. Heath dictates now for me to get up hills i need something to help.

Unless you're available for pushing duties 😆

Canyon torque

A quick peek agrees, certainly some nice bikes and well specced. Cheers for that, I'd forgotten about canyon.
And they do purple, which is handy as my new Hopes are in purple.

Only anecdotally from me but I think chief has a good point. When Ebikes go wrong they can be a royal pain to get sorted, I've read a few threads on here that seem to back that up. Buying from a local store (Or a national with a local branch) would be the way to go if I ever got one I think.

I applied the same logic to smart turbo trainers and glad I did.

Direct sales will give you the best bang for your buck. Canyon and YT come out top in that respect. The trade off is more difficult warranty support.

Generally speaking, Cube is the best spec’d shop-sold brand but has one of the worse warranties; it’s not transferable which will hurt resale value.

Buying local is good advice, but depending on your location it may be worth buying from an eBike specialist like Raceco or Berkshire.

Good luck finding stock of anything decent at the moment though.

+1 for buying local - especially on an e-bike where dealer access to manufacturer support can be very useful.

I dont think we can really compare between the two main – yam or shim motor wise,

Don't forget Bosch which is the best of the lot IMO.

Yeah, having witnessed the issues a mate has had with his, I wouldn't dream of buying a direct sales ebike.

LBS support is what I'd prioritise over a particular spec which can be added separately over time.

The spec can differ substantially though you're right. What you need is a spreadsheet! 😊

I would go contrary to the advice to buy local, or rather I would say if you can get the same bike at the same price locally as you could from some kind of distance then you may as well buy local, but If you're paying thousands/hundreds more (you'll have to decide what local is worth) to get a bike from a local shop versus a distance purchase then thats your choice.

I think you just need make sure you have a nice dealer for your chosen motor brand nearby, as the motor manufacturers all have global warranty terms, just make sure the local motor dealer is not going to play games by refusing to honour the terms of the motor manuf's warranty because you didnt buy the bike from them.

I bought my ebike from germany, saved a couple of thousand versus buying locally. Last week the motor (bosch gen 4) failed , took it to my local bosch dealer and the motor is being replaced. under warranty - which is exactly what it should be.

Best value right now is the canyon torque on , YT decoy , or commencal meta power, I would shy away from the decoy for two reasons, firstly it has the old motor, secondly, it uses a YT proprietary battery which you will have no choice but to go back to YT for any support on the battery front (ie there is no local dealer for the battery)

Don't forget if buying directly from Germany, you'll need to make very sure that the vat and duty is already on the bike price your looking for....

I wouldn't want a £1000 vat and duty bill after buying a 4k bike.....

Don’t forget if buying directly from Germany, you’ll need to make very sure that the vat and duty is already on the bike price your looking for….

I wouldn’t want a £1000 vat and duty bill after buying a 4k bike…..

yep - YT's headline prices include the VAT, but not the duty or shipping charges, which add quite a bit.
Canyons headline prices include everything, not sure about commencals.

Support has to pay a significant part in purchasing one, as it will break at some point. I ride for a shop that isn't local, but have a Trek for that reason, I can take it to other Trek dealers & they will look at it. Sometimes they can be a bit funny, but i've been twice due to error messages in 6 months (mine does get a tough life compared to most, reading the EMTB forum it would seem).

Direct sales would scare me - less so with YT as they have a big physical presence in the UK now with support for warranty - the E8000 motor is reliable & proven too, in fact i'd probably prefer it over the EP8 at this stage (have ridden 2 now & they have been REALLY noisy). Canyon don't make anything I would want to pay money for, the new Commencal Meta Power looks great, but getting it fixed & having to send it back to Andorra would do my head in - not sure i'm that brave.

The Bosch system is probably the best motor & battery (625) on the market, yet coupled with one of the worst integrations (the Kiox & Purion systems are literally awful compared to Shimano & Specializeds' integration). Hopefully one day soon they will update that.

I'd rather focus on the frame geometry, motor & battery as the key points - the spec can change over time - but those bits are mostly what makes the bike & you can't swap them out.

Might be worth considering which motor and the repair network available and as close as possible. Have a Bosch CX die on an Orbea Wild FS after 6 months last week and having bought online from a dealer 160 miles away (as they were the only ones with stock at the time with the bike I wanted and LBS could not get one) I was ready for a right royal PITA. However, the dealer was really helpful and gave me the option of dropping the motor out and they would collect but actually we decided to source a local Bosch service centre which is at a LBS only 4 miles away from me. LBS been great, no quibbling, did the diagnostic, confirmed it needs replacing and the warranty replacement has been ordered once I emailed him the receipt- all done yesterday. So far so good and big up Dialled in Bikes, Paignton. The main uncertainty is availability of the replacement motor.

I'd agree to disagree with Julians, as having a LBS that can service the motor of mail order bike you are buying is definitely the way ahead, if you are buying direct. So you still do need a good e-bike LBS..

he local motor dealer is not going to play games by refusing to honour the terms of the motor manuf’s warranty because you didn't buy the bike from them

This has happened over the last year, as cycling exploded, and shops became too busy to cope, so were turning away customers that did not buy from them directly. Maybe a extreme circumstances, but are we out of the woods yet, and can you definitely say it won't happen again?

I had to wait 8 weeks for a mail order warranty, which though my e-bike specialist did carry out diagnostics for the mail order company, it had to go back to the supplier before being replaced. That was almost 2 months I was without my bikes, was the saving worth it? I didn't think so...when I replaced my mail order bike I took the hit happily, and bought a bike from the LBS that specialised in E-bikes. I believe local support, who you have supported in turn, is still the way ahead for now, with e-bikes.

@devbrix - what was the issue with your bosch cx motor? mine has also just failed, coincidentally also in an orbea wild fs that is about 6 months old.

I would have to disagree with julians’ advice. You definitely won’t save  £1000’s buying direct from a website. Possibly £100’s but that is a small ( very) price to pay to save you from a world of hassle possibly. Consider it insurance.

Even the delivery might be an issue.... how do you know it was pdi’d properly etc. What if it arrives damaged?

i got teh lowest spec Focus going. a buddy has one of the highest. we do the same stuff, jumps etc. i went for teh geo over components approach.

I had planned to upgrade the forks but i really cant justify it at the moment as i cant see what benefit i'd actually get. i think i'm in the sweet spot weight wise for damping in teh boggo rock shox so they actually feel fine when riding - i'm actually really suprised! - the extra ebike weight actually helps the suspension so you dont seem to need teh extra sensitivity.

I guess when i start doing bigger hucks in summer i'll probably need a stronger fork - just in case. And i'll stick a couple of tokens in teh shock too for bottom outs as it doesnt have compression damping.

gears are shit tho - sram plastic 12sp NX? crap. I`ll upgrade to deore at some point when i trash the mech - which i will as it sticks out frigging miles from teh frame. well they kind of work but its not great it might be just 12sp and slop not playing nicely. I might change the freehub and go for a wide range 10sp for robustness (and maximum cheapness!)

“i think i’m in the sweet spot weight wise for damping in teh boggo rock shox so they actually feel fine when riding – i’m actually really suprised! – the extra ebike weight actually helps the suspension so you dont seem to need teh extra sensitivity.”

This is what I found with the shock on my Levo - the basic Deluxe RT works better than the fancy Cane Creek did on my Spitfire! The luck of my weight and speed (or lack thereof) plus the sprung:unsprung mass ratio improvement.

“gears are shit tho – sram plastic 12sp NX? crap. I`ll upgrade to deore at some point when i trash the mech – which i will as it sticks out frigging miles from teh frame.”

I had 11 speed NX and by the time I’d worn out a cassette or two the mech’s shifting was getting sloppy so I got some proper gears instead. But they were tolerable until then.

I would have to disagree with julians’ advice. You definitely won’t save £1000’s buying direct from a website. Possibly £100’s but that is a small ( very) price to pay to save you from a world of hassle possibly. Consider it insurance.

I saved nearly £2k by buying from an online shop in germany versus the same bike from a UK bike shop - and if I had bought from a Uk bike shop it still wouldnt have been local as nobody local had any stock of what I wanted.

YT Decoy probably best component wise, having owned a YT Jeffsy ( which cracked after 5 months and was refused warranty )I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole, despite them opening the UK centre

I’ve had local shops either refuse to do warranty work or attempt to charge for it. That was pre-COVID too, so no excuse.
I bought fairly local (40 miles away) and they have been excellent.

The more I read about ebikes & motors the more it lead me to Yamaha as my motor choice. And then Haibike. The Allmtn 7 is a great spec for the price - price may have gone up a bit now though.

The more I read about ebikes & motors the more it lead me to Yamaha as my motor choice. And then Haibike.

That's probably the Rockshox Reverb effect though applied to ebikes.
You hear less about the other motors simply because they're not nearly as prolific.

The Allmtn 7 is a great spec for the price

seriously ugly though....

Best bang for buck in that price range has to be the Cube Stereo TM, honestly it has a great spec top to bottom, you get performance forks (not rhythm), you get DPX2 rear, newmen wheelset, Magura MT7s, you even get decent tyres, they are very much standard geometry as well, nothing too extreme or old, 4 bar linkage is good. It also has 625wh battery and updated gen4 motor.

I had a 2020 160 TM, unfortunately it died a miserable death (Bosch Gen4 motor), due to Covid times there was no chance of getting a replacement, so refund and i bought a Giant e-Reign, great bike, also a great bike for the money.

The big thing though, buy as local as you can, eBikes fail, it's not due to design, it just appears random failures of motors, wiring looms, sensors, etc, and across all motor types, i've seen so many failures of late i would highly recommend finding the local dealer and just going in and getting your name down, the peace of mind of buying it locally is the biggest thing for me, hence why i have a giant, i live less than 20 minutes from the Giant store.

As for comments of YT, Canyon, etc, remember Brexit prices will be hitting, so i doubt your price range hits these, plus warranty on them could be very very difficult!

I hVe a giant trance e. Great for exploring and range

As for comments of YT, Canyon, etc, remember Brexit prices will be hitting, so i doubt your price range hits these, plus warranty on them could be very very difficult!

canyon torque on 8 £4499 inc vat & import duty : shimano ep8 motor, rockshox zeb 180mm fork, shimano slx brakes, dt swiss wheels, slx drivetrain. Looks brill for the money.

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/electric-bikes/electric-mountain-bikes/torque-on/torque-on-8/2700.html?dwvar_2700_pv_rahmenfarbe=GN

"canyon torque on 8 £4499 inc vat & import duty : shimano ep8 motor, rockshox zeb 180mm fork, shimano slx brakes, dt swiss wheels, slx drivetrain. Looks brill for the money."

Well it does depend on what you're doing with it! Self-uplifts, yes. Swoopy singletrack though?

singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/best-bang-for-buck-component-wise-on-emtb/#post-11758404

Looks nice, but 504wh battery and long distance sales would put me off, but BBC again that’s just due to me having had issues previously and liking larger batteries

If you’re buying long term (*out of motor warranty) I’d be checking out motor spares availability and commercial rebuild availability.

My second ebike is not shimano engined, even though I thought the shimano motor, integration and display were really, really good.

regarding suntour forks, they make forks comparable to those from the main companies. if you haven’t already, look for reviews on the suntour forks fitted to the bike you’re looking at.

op, you said you are unlikely to notice differences in geometry, this may also be true if forks. that isn’t intended as a slur, just something to consider.

I saved nearly £2k by buying from an online shop in germany

Fair enough... I stand corrected.

In took ages to decide which one to spend my hard-earned on and in the end plumped for a Focus Jam2 6.9. It was down to that or a Cube something or other and an Orbea something or other. Mind you, it hasn't turned up yet ......

Well thanks for all the replies and indepth discussion, certainly much food for thought, and a fair number of things like warranties that i hadn't fully appreciated nor thought of.
I did suspect that being new tech theres were bound to be some teething problems, maybe along the lines of software or tech, but I hadn't considered motors breaking so quickly.

As with this subject in general its always been a case of things like forks and shocks which initially costs hundreds being re-released when buyers find the makers have overlooked issuse and effectively left them short with tech that just doesnt cut it but hadnt fully appreciated those problems as these original probs they've long resolved.

I meant earlier bosch, but typed yam. Sorry, I'd hold bosch above yamaha.
Also shimano we all know, and we all know they make great stuff, so if anything is going to last I'd say it would be shimano over others

Feel freee to continue the discussion, ill pop in time to time and see how things are and if there are other details i've not thought of.
Be a bit of time before I've saved enough to finally buy, maybe as long as the summer or autumn, so still time for development, and other problems to be resolved by manufacturers.

Focus Jam2 6.9

That was one of my initial choices, but from this theres a bunch more now. Always good to have more choices. The focus has a good range of spec, though seems its a little heavy, maybe by a couple o kilo's. I see some of them at this kind of price are carbon frames, and was thinking with some aftermarket spec changes i could weight weenie that down a bit.

The weight of it isn't really an issue - it's an e-bike! If you get a Bosch motor there's 80nm of torque too (I think the Shimano one has that now as well).If you are a very technical rider then I guess balance/weight might be a thing but there is a hefty great motor down low in the middle..

Have you ridden one? See if you can get a test ride - CV19 restrictions permitting obv.

Hope you get one you like. 👍

I went for the Marin alpine trail E2, great geometry, Shimano EP8 motor with 630kw battery, fox 38 elite forks, fox dh2 coil shock, XT/SLX drivetrain and Diety bars and stem. £5.5k and local shop back up for warranty

@Pickle where did you order it from? I can't see any in stock anywhere?

It hasn't arrived yet, ordered it from Brink in Bedfordshire.
Originally it was due to arrive next week but looks to be delayed.

I don't think new orders are in until the end of the year.

@pickle thanks for that. I listened to the Downtime podcast and Chris Hull was raving about it so is high up my list although the Privateer is too. And possibly the Torque although haven't had fantastic customer experiences with Canyon. Hopefully production and delivery will pick up by the summer fingers crossed!

I looked at others like the propain as well but having a dealer backup was paramount for me.
Things will go wrong and the thought of having to deal with someone in Germany over email to resolve any issues stopped me going direct sales.

Yes fingers crossed the supply picks up 😀👍

I have 2 Spesh ebikes, a Creo SL and a Levo SL. Both bought from local dealer last summer. They have transformed what I can do and I really rate them. Both bikes have been back in the shop for a few things, the Levo mainly upgrades, the Creo needed a new wiring loom. I wouldn't buy from anything other than a local dealer.

Thanks again, at least this tells me to buy local, or at least somewhere I can get to to return for any problems. I agree wholeheartedly, you buy from abroad and something goes wrong, trying to manage language differences talking to a manufacturer in Germany for instance isnt going to be easy, and returns et all is just not worth the amount you save.
For Cube if i order it via evans or Alpine bikes, there's stockists in Glasgow i can work through. Not sure about Giant, theirs seems to only be Dales cycles and i'd rather have bamboo slivers shoved under my fingernails that deal with them.

Buy local - wise words.

Looks like a few ebike shops in Glasgow, sometimes it's good to go via the specialists, like Pure Electrics ( https://www.pureelectric.com), they tend to live and breathe this stuff, so i would always err for this type of place over an Evans or Alpine, they also appear to stock the likes of Cube, Haibike, Giant, Scott, etc and appear to have stock of a few just now in the Glasgow shop, so at minimum you can throw a leg over and have a chat with a specialist, and see the workshops, which is one of the main sales for places like this!

Buy local from an LBS with good Manufacturer/drive system back up would be my advice.

OP, if you are Glasgow area, have a look at Sprockets in Kilmarnock - they are the biggest ebike retailer in Scotland and a great bunch of people.