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Have we done these spokes?
Not seen them before.
Zed wheels in Barnsley builds hill climb specific wheels with these. I think they’re something like 800 g for a pair!
Getting some built onto DTSwiss XMC1200s this week, 1300(ish) gram, 29”, 30mm enduro-able wheels FTW.
Not been able to do this with a spoke before...
Crazy. They've been out a while then presumably. I'd not seen them before. 🙂
Couple of years I think.
I guess that answers the old question of whether the hub hangs from the top spokes or stands on the bottom ones then 🙂
I guess that answers the old question of whether the hub hangs from the top spokes or stands on the bottom ones then 🙂
This has never been in doubt.
There's a new company called pirope making very similar spokes. They look pretty impressive and if I had the money would be very tempted.
Trouble with Pi Rope ones is that they have a proprietary hub/spoke/rim interface. Berds work with pretty much everything, even standard nipples.
I didn't know berd work on pretty much anything. So in theory I could upgrade my spokes at a later point? If so, I could be in with a shout of 1100g wheels:-)
Quite useful just to have 1 or 2 to carry as spare spokes.
Don't think I can afford or justify 64 of them at that price.
@tomhoward let us know what the build is like and the first ride 👍
Yeah. J bend requires the spoke holes rounding off, but they provide a tool to do it, straight pull needs a separate insert, and it’s a PROPER faff to do, (the Berd demo takes 3 mins to fit one spoke...) but it is doable
Quite useful just to have 1 or 2 to carry as spare spokes.
Not really, as it takes 2 days to bring the spokes to tension (you re tension them twice with 24 hrs between, during the build process (remember what I said about faff?). Berd recommend using a normal spoke, should you break one out in the wild.
I won’t be building them I’m afraid, I have neither the knowledge, patience, nor willingness to learn how to build wheels on these... Stif have brought someone in specially for me 😊. Will report back on how they ride though!
Seem to have been out years but seem to be making a push in the last few days.
Hardtail party just did a video as well:
I’m sort of surprised that these spokes are targeted more at mtbers and not roadies tbh. Think I’d be more likely to build up a set of light road wheels with these if they weren’t so expensive.
They’ve been doing the rounds on road and gravel based sites for a while, only more recently MTBers have picked them up.
Dentists can now get dental floss spokes for their boutique bikes 😀.
Can you go to rehab for ridiculously overpriced bike bits addiction, cos if you drop 500 on spokes you should maybe check yourself in.
I love those. Definitely never going to buy any, but still.
I’m sort of surprised that these spokes are targeted more at mtbers and not roadies tbh.
Outside of hillclimbing I suspect that aero is more appealing, especially since it became such a big deal in marketing the last few years.
Spinergy had their PBO spokes which were probably similar? I can't remember but I think there was a UCI rule related reason why they didn't take off?
Can you go to rehab for ridiculously overpriced bike bits addiction, cos if you drop 500 on spokes you should maybe check yourself in.
Sounds shit.
Yeah, they aren’t very aero, though part of the bumpf on Berd’s website is that they are UCI legal. The vibration damping is what’s being pushed to the gravel guys, plus the lack of weight, over aero.
I think you used to be able to get "emergency" spokes made out of dyneema?
That looks like a pretty nice application, though.
So, $512 for 64 spokes. It's not completely out of the question. Can you get them on cycle-to-work?
So, $512 for 64 spokes.
Plus $45 delivery to UK, $65 for a builders kit and 25% for VAT/duty/fees.
And an extra 86c per spoke if you have straight pull hubs, for the inserts
Pretty minimal weight gain really though (2.5g vs 5g - 64 x 2.5g = 160g) so not exactly a good use of money on a price per gram saved if they cost around £600 for a pair of wheels to save 160g versus £100 for decent metal spokes.
In fact probably one of the worst uses of money for a £ per gram!
Not aimed at me though as the set of spokes cost more than my only bike...
All rotational weight though, plus supposed ride feel benefits. We’ll see.
Are these going on your Deviate? I do love your bike builds as there's always something different.
For those questioning the financials, does it really matter? I've seen people spend that on number plates for rep mobiles!
Hard Tail Party just released a video reviewing them on a wheelset and he is really impressed (rode them for 6 months).
Are these going on your Deviate? I do love your bike builds as there’s always something different.
Naaw, fanks! Yeah, the Highlander.
Nice! Get them sent off that drop at Gisburn and see how they feel 🙂
For some reason when I saw these a while ago, I thought they were rigid. Like they'd been dipped in some sort of resin.
All rotational weight though, plus supposed ride feel benefits. We’ll see.
Rotating mass at the rim is equivalent to 2x actual mass. But the spokes' mass is distributed evenly along the radius. My physics lessons are too long ago to know the actual multiplier, but it will be less than 2x.
I feel I didn’t really focus in on just how much of a faff these spokes are to fit, and why I didn’t want to do it myself.
In their eagerness to play with the shiny things, Stif started lacing them at 9am this morning. I’ve just had a call (at 4pm) to say that they’ve done all the right side and half the left side spokes of the front wheel. I make that 3 spokes an hour.
They’ve had to re make all the supplied tools, due to the forces required to seat everything breaking the originals.
More news as I get it.
I make that 3 spokes an hour.
I hope that they're charging at least £1000 labour
Great success!
Not tensioned yet, but looks like they have the hang of it now, last 7 spokes only took an hour...
I hope you agreed a price before hand 🤣
Tell em you don't like the colour of the rim, can they relace it with a different one please?
Actually I'm sure I remember seeing some sort of "emergency spoke" product for sale years ago; made of some flavour of Kevlar/Aramid/Dyneema... Was it the same company?
And Of course lets not forget:
ETRTO is the diameter of the rim not the spoke length is it not.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm disc drive
ETRTO is the diameter of the rim not the spoke length is it not.
Yes, but please allow me some artistic license for the thread title 😉
They're awesome for comfort. Happy to carry a spare one or two in my pocket. Not so great for single speed use, you can feel the initial flex when stomping on the pedal however after a moment they seem to recoil and shoot you on your merry way. Love the sound they make. Oh, and the look on the fellow rider's face when they notice your wheels are literally laced with what looks like some shoestrings is priceless...
My buddy from BlackCat Wheels has built my hoops and I can't thank him enough, enjoy his little write-up:
https://www.blackcatwheels.ch/2019/12/berd-spoked-wheels-why-your-mother-or.html
More promising news.
DTSwiss list the stock front wheel weight as 709g, but I suspect that includes rim tape and valves, which the above doesn’t.
And we’re done.
Adding this to the front...
Makes 1280g (plus a bit for valves and rim tape on the front) all up, down from 1530g. I think that’s pretty good for a 29”, 30mm rim, AM/enduro-able wheelset 😊
Now they are built into wheels, the spokes feel no different when you grab a handful than metal ones. Only had a quick blast down Stainburn red descent line on the way home from the shop, but they feel as you’d expect wheels that were half a pound lighter than previously, they feel a bit more lively, accelerating a bit quicker and generally react well to inputs. Can’t really comment on ride feel yet as the tyres had a million psi in, having just been fitted, but I’m off for a longer ride this aft/eve, so will report back later.
lovely.
was it an entirely new set of wheels or a relace?
Yep, those are cool. Thanks for posting the result!
Also, is that a Park scale in a Lidl bike stand?
Re lace of my current wheels. I didn’t take advantage of this, but Berd offer a service where they send you a box, you send your wheels, they re build and send them back to you. It seems pretty good value to be fair, just means you might be without wheels for a while.
Just back from riding, actually a very good test for the ride feel, as all the usually fairly soft/muddy trails are baked at the moment so what would just be squashed normally are putting up a little more resistance.
There’s a definite improvement in smoothness, not a game changing amount, but it’s there. They just roll that but better over the hard packed ruts, but not pinging off them like you might expect from light wheels. I assume the effect is muted compared to road/gravel bikes due to big tyres and suspension, so can see why the gravel guys love them.
Again, they get up to speed really well, which was most noticeable on short sharp climbs, where you could just about go a gear bigger, if you were feeling fit.
Are they worth it? Absolutely not. They are nice, and I’m happy with them, but you really need to have upgraded EVERYTHING else before these make any sort of sense whatsoever. If you are going to build them yourself, block out a weekend, if getting an LBS to do it, get a price upfront.
Also, is that a Park scale in a Lidl bike stand?
Not actually from Lidl, but yeah, a cheapy off Amazon from about 10 years ago. Works as much as I need it to, I’ve had access to an LBS stand up until about 18 months ago, so no real need to get anything else just yet.
All that cost and effort to go on a ride with 30psi in your Minions 😀
Really good write up and a great look in to these spokes that one wouldn't normally find. Happy Trails!
Lol yeah, was only one, spur of the moment, run though, and I didn’t notice straight away, which I guess is as good an endorsement as any!
Also, is that a Park scale in a Lidl bike stand?
I'm disappointed no one has mentioned the state of his flag stones and the grass growing inbetween. Standards are slipping.
@tomhoward did you weigh them before and after? I'm guessing everything is the same just different spokes and nipples.
Please can you do a long term review after you've had chance to put them through their paces.
Garden is MrsTHs department (and was due to be ripped up last year, now this year...)
Didn’t weigh them before, but DT list them as 1529g, and there’s been enough reviews confirming it so take it as read.
Yeah just the spokes and nipples, plan is to ride and race them through the summer, so will up date as I go on.
Any update on this?
For the last couple of months, not much. I broke my collar bone at the beginning of June which sidelined me for 6 weeks, then as that healed, the bike the wheels are attached to has been stripped in order for the frame to be coloured in. Get it back in a couple of weeks though so once it’s built up, I’ll refresh my memory.
The main thing I noticed previously though was how well (better than pre string) they kept going on steep loose, rocky climbs, I guess partly because of the (lack of) weight allowing my to keep them spinning, and a little bit because of the damping effect, meaning sharp edges aren’t quite so sharp?
The aforementioned collarbone was broken whilst riding them too, they aren’t to blame, but the front wheel has a bit of a wobble now, so it’s off being straightened as I type. Will report if any maladies arise.
Well this is a bit of a bump but... thought it was relevant.
Following on from reading this thread, then another on MTBR ( https://www.mtbr.com/threads/make-your-own-polymer-uhmwpe-spokes.1091276/ - I start my process on Page 21), I've been playing around with making my own version of these. It worked! The wheels ride great with lots of 'filtration' of trail buzz, and they ended up light (under 1300g a set for XC-orientated 29ers with a beefy singlespeed rear hub).
My own bike has done about 400 miles in the English winter slop and they're holding up nicely, so I thought I would offer to build a wheel for a friend of mine to see just how much abuse they'll take!
WARNING: Much nerding in the video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hXOYfnhStI
Watched that video last night, top bike geeking!
Synchronous, me too was geeking out last night with that same video. Tol nothc!never saw this thread first time around.
Any ropey-wheelers have feedback after some time? I’d be interested in building a (lighter) weight 29+
Not something I'd put the time into, let alone the cost, but fascinating!
Having watched that video, I can't help but think that the Need spokes are a bloody bargain by comparison.
Seriously impressive work there Adam!
I was talking to Ali about it the other day and have since watched the video, crazy amount of work, I don't think I would have the patience.
Any ropey-wheelers have feedback after some time?
Nothing to report here. They work just as well as normal spokes. Have ridden them in all my normal haunts (inc Lake District and BPW) and no issues to report. I’m not a wheel destroyer anyway, but apart from the aforementioned, collarbone breaking, crash they’re still true. There’s always a niggling feeling that they might need retensioning, but whenever they’ve been checked, they’re fine.
I maintain that they are very much a nice to have, rather than essential upgrade though, but then the benefits might not be as profound on a 160/140mm fs. Will give them a go on the hardtail once built just to see what happens.
After watching Ali's first video I'm convinced Adam from tarty bikes is Richard Stilgoe's love child.