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this possibly applies to me!rounded mountain biker
Is benji not going to come on here and defend himself
How wet?
Well I've gone roadie I'll be honest I'm 30 min drive from any kind of trail even cheeky ones and I have two kids so a road bike let's me go for a spin in an hour rather than an MTB that takes two! With the kids etc I push the time about as much as I can 5am start or leave when they go to bed. I agree with Jedi any bikes a good bike. Enjoyed the article he's done well to get so many peoples heckles up!!
Over time I've started to read the MTB mags less and less I am happy with my bikes I just want to ride as much as I can on any surface!! Plus CX bikes are a right laugh!! 🙂
Just read it. In 20 odd years of mountain biking a lot of riding pals have dropped by the wayside, citing baby/work/relationship reasons. Sure there's always time pressure on ride time; I've had jobs with a 3 hour commute, I've been unemployed, I've had a very ill spouse, I've raised two children. But I've always kept riding. My take is that if you over compromise you lose everything, so you need to stay selfish to stay sane. Sometimes this isn't easy, but when I'm on the way to the trails and see the dead eyed fat bellied blokes my age queuing to get into Tesco or the boot sale I know I've got it right. Keep challenging 'em Benj.
Right, you can read the first half of the article here...
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/2011/07/singletrack-issue-67-digital-issue-teaser/ ]http://www.singletrackworld.com/2011/07/singletrack-issue-67-digital-issue-teaser/[/url]
...if you'd like to wade into the argument armed with precisely half the facts 😉
It is just a well written and touching piece about what cycling means to [i]him[/i].
We don't all have to agree with him, we don't all have to do or believe the same thing. There is no right or wrong here.
One of the great things about the mag is that writers actually [i]do[/i] have personal views, and the writing is usually pretty high quality - and sometimes inspirational.
Which is good - because as a journal for investigating the industry (CRC CC fraud anyone?) it is pants. And I'll believe it has consumer interests at heart when I see an article called "The ten worst bike shops" 😉
Bugger, cracking article(so far), i'll need to jump in to a shop somewhere to read the second half now!Right, you can read the first half of the article here...http://www.singletrackworld.com/2011/07/singletrack-issue-67-digital-issue-teaser/
...if you'd like to wade into the argument armed with precisely half the facts
I've read the first page and a bit. LOL and in a good way. I like it.
As always on this place, folks just need to stop taking it all so damn seriously.
Peace and love 😎
But he goes beyond saying what cycling means to him – to others who have made different choices in their lives he says ‘step back and ask yourself just what you are doing with your life’. That is self righteous crap, non the less so because he makes the same point in his introduction.
I spend more time mountain biking now than ever before because my kids have grown up. When they were younger I happily gave up time in the saddle to involve myself in their lives and in pastimes that were easier to share together. I wouldn’t give up one second of that time to spend it on a bike.
I’ve never met the guy, but those who have seem to speak well of him. Still, based on this article he comes across as the sort of person I try hard to avoid – anyone who describes their hobby as ‘religion’, and lambasts those who don’t seem to treat his religion with the same zeal, from my experience tend to be one dimensional and dull as ditch water.
When the group I ride with is out on Sundays mornings the banter never stops for the 3 hours or so we are together – and we rarely, if ever, talk about bikes. For a short time we share a joint passion, but it’s the non biking interests and experiences of a very eclectic bunch that makes it such fun. In that sort of company I suspect Benji would be well out of his depth.
The Morocco article is ace!
Is benji not going to come on here and defend himself
+1.
Bit surprising really..
Shows either he hasnt read this thread or perhaps the whole thing was nothing more than a troll?.........
what a load of old cobblers.
Hmmm. Read the first page and have no interest in reading any more, or buying Singletrack.
I agree with Benji. It's like sometimes I want to go out riding my bike & my mum makes me tidy my room instead... & girls. Sometimes they try & [i]kiss[/i] you and want to talk about stuff. I mean yuk!! I just want to hang out at the pump track.
But he goes beyond saying what cycling means to him – to others who have made different choices in their lives he says ‘step back and ask yourself just what you are doing with your life’. That is self righteous crap, non the less so because he makes the same point in his introduction.
This.
You could easily turn that back round on him.
My 2p.
Benji touches on some fair points, but his aggression (artistically liscened no doubt)is tiring and, frankly, annoying.
The article also smacks of someone who never met the right woman. Or possibly any woman if riding as much as he claims?
If thats what it trully takes to be a MTB'er, then im totally happy not being one, i'll just stick to being someone who enjoys riding my MTB (when time permits).
Oh, and I feel blessed that I discovered road bikes last year after 15 years of rigidly sticking to the 26" format. It has completely broadened my horizons.
For someone to rant about not opening ones mind to 'new music' (totally aside from the actual subject) and then bemoan people who open thier minds to other forms of cycling is just plain hypocritical
Totally agree with the dig at the retrobike geeks though.
I agree with Benji. It's like sometimes I want to go out riding my bike & my mum makes me tidy my room instead... & girls. Sometimes they try & kiss you and want to talk about stuff. I mean yuk!! I just want to hang out at the pump track.
Or I could have just written that 🙂
The article also smacks of someone who never met the right woman. Or possibly any woman if riding as much as he claims?
He's fairly recently married, so I don't think it's that 🙂
Totally agree with the dig at the retrobike geeks though.
You'd be wrong there, it's about the riding for plenty of those guys too.
Can't help thinking that Ben's sort of missed the point of the "People's Judean Front" skit, though 😉
i'll hear nothing bad said about the retrobike crowd slimjim78 😉 as i frequent the forum (do not have a retrobike myself though/although my lovely new charge duster mid is retro modern) i did swap my 10 anthem x2 for it (and don't for 1 second regret it) as i wanted to go back to a simpler bike.let people enjoy whatever bike they love (tis all cycling in my book/which can only be a good thing 😀
no, there are good folks on the retrobikes, but ive come across plenty who refuse to accept anything modern and in the spirit of the article, they really are missing out.
I have nostalgia in bundles and a mini retro fetish so I know these things 😉
Glad Benji is married, she'll make an honest man of him hopefully.
Just read the free bit. Poor article. People inventing a controversial viewpoint never ring true and IMO "he doth protest too much"
Yes its all about the riding for me - and I simply don't need any tech thats new. Nice light strong frame, fork that works, decent hydro discs. I need that but all available for many a year.
Interesting that he criticises those whose musical tastes haven't changed since they were 22, but he has done exactly the same by not moving on from MTB'ing. Maybe he should try kite surfing or sailing or stamp collecting or something. Just MTB'ing is pretty one dimensional.
Personally I think he sounds pretty pathetic. It's the sort of smug, superior journalism that made me stop buying MBR a few years ago when as far as they were concerned everyone who didn't ride a 5-6" FS with baggies and a Giro whilst riding at Afan was just not getting it, and inferior to them.
However in the real world, despite what we all think, bikes are not cool; particularly when ridden by overweight men who ride round the woods getting covered in mud. To the general public bikes are a child's toy or at best a child's mode of transport until they can afford a car. Adults who ride bikes only do so because they either can't afford a car, have lost their licence, or are a bit weird. Certainly not cool.
So arguing amongst ourselves about which is "cooler" - road, MTB, XC, Downhill, CX or unicycle is irrelevant. It's the same as stamp collectors arguing about whether collecting British or French stamps is cooler.
For me, it's just about riding bikes and I don't care how many gears, how much suspension, how fat your tyres or what you wear. If you are on a bike and having fun then I'm happy for you.
Just don't sneer at me because I am riding a clean hard-tail - because I just [i]might[/i] be having more fun than you.
I've met a few people with that attitude. It's the kind of elitist bollocks that people who have little responsibility dress themselves up in.
I used to ride as often as I could. 5 years ago, before I had 2 kids, I'd ride every day and in the summer I'd try and go out twice on both Saturday and Sunday!
Life changes. My kids come first. It's tough to scale back the thing you love but it has to be done. It's easy to tell people to make time but you know what? It's 8pm and I've just finished reading my eldest a bedtime story. I've been up since 5am and put in a full day's work to make sure the mortgage is paid and there's food on the table. My riding now consists of a 16 mile commute and the odd weekend blast. Tomorrow I'll be taking myself off for a 60 miler on the road cos my mtb needs attention and I don't have the time to sort it out.
step back and ask yourself just what you are doing with your life
I'm being a father to my kids, which means putting them first.
What are you doing benji? And does what you do actually matter?
bikes are not cool; particularly when ridden by overweight men who ride round the woods getting covered in mud
have we met? 😕
Comes across as a bit of a brat tbh.
Poorly structured argument which could be turned back on himself.
This is probably why it makes such a good troll, which begs the question was this why it was written? It's not a article on a contentious subject to "provoke a debate" as there is nothing there of substance.
However in the real world, despite what we all think, bikes are not cool; particularly when ridden by overweight men who ride round the woods getting covered in mud. To the general public bikes are a child's toy or at best a child's mode of transport until they can afford a car. Adults who ride bikes only do so because they either can't afford a car, have lost their licence, or are a bit weird. Certainly not cool.
+1000
Blimey, thats quite some response to what is essentially a personal view on Bens MTB world, Ben states up front that its preachy and opinionated and thats what you get.
As a long time friend (and certainly one of the people who is tagged in the article) I see it as a clarion call to get back to what we love, there was a time between 5 and 10 years ago when everything our group of friends did revolved around mountainbikes, people changed their lives, their circumstances, their jobs even to be about bikes...
but things change, not always for the best but none the less they change
Its certainly made me sit up and take notice and think about making the time to get back the love.
And as a small aside, the Cross Fell/High Cup Nick article thats featured in the latest issue was also covered by us way back when, it was one of our lots stag ride, there's a photo in that original article of the group of friends in the bothy at the top of Cross Fell from back then, that made me smile 🙂
Blimey, thats quite some response to what is essentially a personal view on Bens MTB world, Ben states up front that its preachy and opinionated and thats what you get.
It's ok to have an opinion but you need to have a decent well formed argument to back it up. If you print said opinion for many to read it's seem strange to be surprised that a reaction has been provoked.
I don't think for one minute that Ben is surprised at the reaction !
If you print it, you have to accept that some people may think the author to be misguided and silly...
Except that it's not.Stoatsbrother - Member
It is just a well written and touching piece
I don't agree with Mike Ferrentino much either but at least his articles tend to be well presented and seem to have a degree of thought behind them.
I don't think for one minute that Ben is surprised at the reaction !
My mistake it I read your post as if there was surprise. I still don't think he formed he presented his case very well.
Next time maybe he should just ring his mates up and shout at them instead?
Not interested in Road biking myself But there are others that want to ride through winter
without ruining there mountain bike.
I just cant see the point in this stupid thread Just dont read, a what road bike thread.
Road bike riding cant be that bad all the Atherton's ride them.
Its certainly made me sit up and take notice and think about making the time to get back the love.
Really?
Would have made me think ''Jayzus, Ben needs to get over himself, I used to like him''
As a long time friend (and certainly one of the people who is tagged in the article) I see it as a clarion call to get back to what we love, there was a time between 5 and 10 years ago when everything our group of friends did revolved around mountainbikes, people changed their lives, their circumstances, their jobs even to be about bikes...
Some people can live the dream, other people have different dreams and live those. If you feel you've made some sort of sacrifice, you've lost.
Firstly, I accept people are entitled to their opinion. The author has put his upon us and it's great to have the forum as an opportunity for some to respond. [b]Boriselbrus[/b] and [b]Yossarian[/b] - wise, considered words indeed, and I agree.
Based on what I've read of the article in the sampler PDF, I'm not sure I feel I share ANY similarity with the author. It's a ridiculously agressive, divisive piece of ranting / writing. Why the need?
Why are all bikes not good? Why is all cycling not good? What's wrong with someone riding one bike for all, or having a choice of bikes to play with? Why does everyone have to ride down the incredible rocky chute that's pictured? Just because there are bikes (and some riders) out there nowadays that CAN, it doesn't mean they SHOULD. Plenty of my most enjoyable riding isn't the death defying stuff that's available in the Peak - but that's fun at times too.
I'm baffled. It feels more than a troll, to be honest, and I'd say it's very misjudged. I don't know the complete socio-demographic of the readership of the magazine of course, but to try to pull apart your customers and pigeonhole them seems commercially odd, to say the least.
What's wrong with 'different' and how on earth can anyone behave like they did when they discovered mountain bikes in the 1990s? I have a mortgage, career, family and, dare I say it, other interests in my life now. I fit cycling around my life as best I can. I love cycling - it's hugely important to my physical and mental well being. I make time for it and I benefit from it. I have a wonderful, understanding wife, I have disposable income. Shit - I've got a cyclocross bike and a road bike. May I burn in hell.
Or not, I suspect.
+1
Right on
Isn't the point of the article to express his view and his love of his kind of cycling - and to start a discussion?
Or should all articles be neutral, objective in stance and bland in expression?
I don't agree with perhaps 40% of what he says, I'd guess - just as I don't agree with lots of what say Christopher Hitchens or Matthew Parris say - but I enjoy reading them. If you just read stuff or watch stuff, or listen to stuff to have your own prejudices confirmed isn't that a bit sad?
I think you are all too harsh...
Personally, I agreed with quite a lot of it but for me his delivery was just a little OTT in places.
The only bit that I thought was right off the mark was the bit about you can always find time. Coming from someone lucky enough to work in the business that was a bit rich. I would love to not have to be away from the house for 15+ hours a day and have perfect trails on the doorstep. Not choice but reality for me.
Lol, seems to have touched a nerve with the forum massif then! I wonder how many of these replies are covering up their sadness at not being able to ride due to other things in their life.
Certainly not mine 8)maxray - Member
I wonder how many of these replies are covering up their sadness at not being able to ride due to other things in their life.
Not me either.
Eh no point just really enjoyed this........ 8)
Lol, seems to have touched a nerve with the forum massif then! I wonder how many of these replies are covering up their sadness at not being able to ride due to other things in their life.
Nope not me. Love riding bikes, love my sons MORE.
maxray - Member
Lol, seems to have touched a nerve with the forum massif then! I wonder how many of these replies are covering up their sadness at not being able to ride due to other things in their life.
Far from it maxray - you've completely missed my point, and I suspect plenty of other people's too.
"Time changes everything, except something within us which is always surprised by change." Thomas Hardy, I think?
i have just got in from a lovely 3 hour ride with other forum users. I am now sitting here drinking tea eating cake.
I wonder how many of these replies are covering up their sadness at not being able to ride due to other things in their life.
Not me. Many of the 'other things in life' gave me every bit as much pleasure as riding a bike - some of the them much, much more.
Making work/life balance decisions isn't an exact science, but I can say now looking back after trying to get that balance right for nearly 40 years of adult life, biking is pretty unimportant compared to many things in life. Not even in the top ten once you add in kids.
A previous post mentioned Benji is recently married, which would indicate he has limited experience of the compromises that family life entail. I hope for the sake of his new wife and any kids they might have that he grows up quickly.
Likely Lads
Lol 😀 nope , no nerves touched..
Finally got round to reading it. Each to their own as long as there having fun and not hurting anyone its all good.
Agree re bikes being tools but I really think people miss out by dismissing whole aspects of cycle sport. Cyclocross is the new bandwaggon, after that it's going to be all about touring. You can already see it coming with the popularity of bivvying growing.
I thought it was quite a good piece of writing and has achieved exactly what it was designed to do, provoke discussion. Despite recognising myself as the prime target for at least one of his complaints (actually I suspect I *am* the target for that one), I thought he got his opinion over very well. Job done IMO. It's almost back to the first few years of the magazine.
Pretty much what Samuri says here. Its a good discussion piece.
In terms of stages of life, I guess I'm further ahead with 'children et al' but he sounds like every other 'no dependents' adult I know - simply no comprehension of the competing demands of family and sprogs, or the fact that life changes and other competing priorities can and do curtail riding time, or music listening time, or going to the pub time, or watching the telly time, etc...
Theres plenty of (deliberate, I suspect) binary opinion, but broadly I agree with him especially about old bikes. They really were crap in comparison to modern stuff.
Its quite amusing to read some of the defensive stuff on this thread. He much have touched a nerve.
I do enjoy a preaching rant about people giving up riding from some one who works in the bike trade, you could even take his view point seriously if he didn't right nice riding in the hills articles for the CTC mag eh ;0)
as a piece of tongue in cheek writing I though it was very funny, some folks really need to lighten up 😆
maxray - MemberLol, seems to have touched a nerve with the forum massif then! I wonder how many of these replies are covering up their sadness at not being able to ride due to other things in their life.
I'm not covering up anything, go back and read my first post and come back and look me in the eye with your smug attitude.
Oh and I will still be out tomorrow night for a ride, but it will involve carers looking after my wife while I enjoy myself 😕
Its quite amusing to read some of the defensive stuff on this thread. He much have touched a nerve.
Thinking about it, I reckon that a lot of people work hard, have a lot of responsibilities, have less disposable income and kind of rely on riding when they can. To be told by someone who works in the bike trade that what they do isn't enough and that they've effectively sold out is like a red rag to a bull.
Still waiting for the author to post on here....
Probably still in bed
Still waiting for the author to post on here....Probably still in bed
Why sleep when you can be out on your bike?
Same goes for having a poo.
[i]Why sleep when you can be out on your bike?
Same goes for having a poo. [/i]
now I'm getting on a bit I live in fear of combining the first and last.
I've only metaphorically cacked myself whilst riding, so far, though.
People need to recognise that the article was written as a challenge and thought piece, no-one really believes that Benji is shallow enough not to realise that life involves compromises are they?
His central point (from my reading) was 'Don't give up on riding 'cos it'll take something away from your core.' was valid. Even MrOvershoot recognises that riding a bike is critical to his well being (albeit that he has limited time to do it).
is benji the tall one with the stubble? if it is he ignored me at MM when i told him he'd get told off by the marshall for pitching his chair next to the hole everyone was falling off in, this was shortly before someone told him it might not be a good idea to sit there and to shift it
not read the article though, my copy is still in Tesco
It"s the first article in the mag that I've actually printed off to show people, I liked it.
Just re-read it, to see if I was being a bit harsh before.
I wasn't. It just feels like someone being edgy for the sake of being edgy. It's a bit 'hipster'...
Reads as pretty tongue in cheek to me.
Enjoyed it for what it was - an opinion piece. I thought he made some good points. It was written in a polemic style so I don't think he had an obligation to qualify everything he wrote to cover every readers circumstances.
@MrOvershoot - I didnt direct it at anyone in particular merely said it seemed to have touched a nerve, which seing there is 4+ pages of replies to his article would suggest it is a valid point.
No smugness here, I have to balance my life like anyone else, I just didn't take umbrage with Benji's article and took it for what it was rather than seeing it as an attack on me. As much as people might protest I think we would [b]ALL[/b] like to have more disposable time to spend getting out in the hills.
I wasn't. It just feels like someone being edgy for the sake of being edgy. It's a bit 'hipster'...
What, like those weird people with singlespeed clown-wheeled bikes? [i]Totally[/i] hipster.
I wonder how many of these replies are covering up their sadness at not being able to ride due to other things in their life.
Most of them. Me included. But I'd rather have my family than my bike.
If it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, what Benji failed to realise is that it would wind up at least half the target audience of the mag. If it wasn't tongue-in-cheek, what Benji failed to realise is that it would wind up at least half the target audience of the mag. All-in-all, bit of a bad judgement?
I'll keep with my subsciption as I love the articles about riding different places, I find the gear reviews very well written even when its stuff I've no intention of buying, and the access stuff has been brilliant. But recently, a lot of the "thought-provoking" articles about general riding by Benji et al have been, frankly, rubbish and its a real shame they tend to be the first articles in the mag. That pro and con of winter a few months ago was a complete waste of paper and ink.
Reads as pretty tongue in cheek to me.
except there was no humour
I enjoyed that, I agree with a lot of it despite being guilty of a lot of it, so I deffo think some people could do with lightening up...
That said, I don't know what Benji's plans are RE kids but if he does plan on having them, I'd say be prepared to take some of that back 😉
Kids are harder than they look! I'm a die-hard biker and when I'm old and wrinkly and ready to go, I'd rather die on my bike than in my bed. BUT. Being a Dad is waaaaay cooler, and soon I get to play bikes with the boy as well!
magazines are ephemeral, why all the consternation over something somebody has written in a magazine that's probably in the recycle bin by now.
That's just how it reads to me, pointing the finger a pretty much every section of the bike community and the ingrained prejudicies within each little section of them.
I could be the blueprint for the not having time to ride, due to family, house, business (although I spend alot of time at events and races allowing of people to ride/race) , however I'm not offended and it's being changed slowly as things settle down and I make more time to ride, not taking any offence from it at all.
I liked it, I could almost hear the collective teeth grinding of STW forum members thinking "how dare he say my choices are wrong?!?! I bet he doesn't even have a life or a heart or a soul or a wife or kids, and he's probably ginger! I hate him, I hate him, I love my road bike, and how dare he suggest I stop watching grand designs and go for a ride??!?! Doesn't he know my personal situation?!?!"
Seems like he loves riding his bike, it's a provocative bit of writing and I have a feeling he knew a lot of what he wrote would get a reaction, especially from the overly sensitive STW types. If I were to write a blog or forum post on the subject I'd be writing the same thing... and probably watering it down with phrases like "as long as you're on a bike having fun then it's all good" "it doesn't matter what bike you're on" and "if you've got kids or an ill relative then that should take priority over riding as chances are they're important to you"... but that polite stuff would just be included to slow down the kinda reaction seen in this thread... if I was in a position to write a piece that would be published and would provoke a reaction/discussion then I would.
I've never met the guy but I'd like to ride with him, and I think that if I turned up on a singlespeed cross bike that's got an element of retro about it he'd chuckle, make a joke (as I would) and we'd still go out and enjoy a ride together 🙂
successful article me thinks.
think so i bought a years an online subscription on the back of it that i otherwise wouldn't have so.successful article me thinks.
What, like those weird people with singlespeed clown-wheeled bikes? Totally hipster
Ahh.... I see what you've done there. I don't wear skinny jeans though. And I've got brakes too.
(sigh...)
I liked it, I could almost hear the collective teeth grinding of STW forum members thinking "how dare he say my choices are wrong?!?!
I've never met the guy but I'd like to ride with him, and I think that if I turned up on a singlespeed cross bike that's got an element of retro about it he'd chuckle, make a joke (as I would) and we'd still go out and enjoy a ride together
exactly!
maxray - Member
@MrOvershoot - I didnt direct it at anyone in particular merely said it seemed to have touched a nerve, which seing there is 4+ pages of replies to his article would suggest it is a valid point.No smugness here, I have to balance my life like anyone else, I just didn't take umbrage with Benji's article and took it for what it was rather than seeing it as an attack on me. As much as people might protest I think we would ALL like to have more disposable time to spend getting out in the hills.
I know you didn't direct it anyone in particular & TBH my replying late at night was probably not the best thing to do after having to dash back from work in the afternoon to get my wife off the floor crying in pain, it sort of spoils the day!
My only real gripe about the article was the slightly preachy "I can do it so why aren’t you" stance.
Hell even my wife gets cross with people who can do but don't, she used to be very fit & active but now that's been taken away from her she knows how precious it is.
wwaswas is spot on with his observation that cycling is critical to my well being, without the time on a bike I think I would have probably cracked up by now.
I don't know about anyone else but people often ask me "what do you think about on a bike while your riding?" My answer is always "Nothing" and its absolutely brilliant as I think it gives me a chance to recharge?
I don't know about anyone else but people often ask me "what do you think about on a bike while your riding?" My answer is always "Nothing" and its absolutely brilliant as I think it gives me a chance to recharge
+1
almost zen like with the added bonus of endorphins and stuff buzzing through you for hours afterwards.
An absolute quality article. Frankly - its the reason I got a subscription to Singletrack in the first place. Because I don't want to read bland anodyne crap. There's a whole world of that out there. We're awash with it. The internet hasn't revolutionised that. Its just multiplied the volume of it.
Just brilliant to see something that's provoking a bit of debate. I'd started to think that was a capital offense to actually print [i]anything - anywhere[/i] - that might run the slightest risk of offending the multitude of people out there who are just itching to be offended. **** 'em! Which seems to have been Benji's attitude. Hats off to him
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/sep/17/comment.charliebrooker ]offended people[/url]
I think mike ferrentino's article is worthy of a mention too. Another belter. And, as people have pointed out, maybe a style in which Benji might be revisiting in a few years.
Just a great mag this month though. More of that please chaps 😀
So, the article was "edgy", "tongue in cheek", "a polemic", "provocative", "meant to cause a reaction"
On the forum, that's called trolling - only some of the regular posters are better at it 😆