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OMG! They’re not cycles, they’re mopeds! They are killing our parents and breaking everyone’s bones… incredible 😲
I know, another bit of shock reporting from the beeb. Pick on two emotionally charged cases and offer little in the way of balance. No delineation between legal ebikes and bodged up/chipped ones which go far faster and therefore are regulated and require a license /or illegal. No, and answer has to be unenforceable or frustrating regulation for everyone using an eeb.
I had to walk out of the room
(Though it probably was a fair point about the rental ebikes in London, the state of some make them death traps)
Most of the footage was people on Lime bikes in London. Points made about people who aren't generally cyclists and who don't have experience in traffic, the fact they are less agile than a normal bike and because of the weight and speed they cause worse injuries.
There were a few comments that drifted very close to the "tax and insurance" angle, and an opinion that people should have cycle training.
Also comments that they were a good thing for transportation.
A couple of things I agree with - I'm sure Lime bikes (and electric scooters) can cause issues if used on pavements, and if I was old and vulnerable and lived in London I'd possibly feel nervous about them. I also think giving more access to cycle training in schools would be a good thing but don't agree it should be mandatory. Not everyone has access to a bike, or wants to ride one.
If the cycle infrastructure was better there would be less riding on pavements.
As a mobility solution they're great, but some people are dicks - and the same applies to car drivers too. And I'm sure car drivers cause more injuries and deaths yet somehow our society seems to tolerate this.
If the cycle infrastructure was better there would be less riding on pavements.
This.
And I'm sure car drivers cause more injuries and deaths yet somehow our society seems to tolerate this.
The overwhelming majority of the 5 deaths a day (and many more seriously injured) on British roads are caused by drivers, and yet this is addressed with a general shrug, "these things happen" and a complete deprioritising of roads policing, and social media screaming whenever fairly small road changes are made to make street layouts safer.
Meanwhile, it's a bad year if five people are killed by people on bikes, but the potential risk leads to pearl clutching, conflation of illegal e-mopeds with legal e-bikes (undermining their high potential for decarbonising transport and decreasing inactivity related ill-health) and "something must be done".
The thing is that we know what needs to be done to reduce the already small risk from e-bikes - segregated bike lanes on main roads, and follow the recommendations in the excellent APPGCW report.
I'm going to say what I say every time on these threads - if this bothers you, get involved, no matter how peripherally, in your local active travel campaign group. This is mine (WalkRide Greater Manchester)
I switched on with the heavily bandaged kid suffering in bed from an ebike falling on her... what was that about? Was it an outside or in the home incident? Heavy thing falls on child! All ebikes are bad! ?? Then the expert opinions from bone doctors... It was just Wow.
All you really need to know is :
BBC Breakfast now…
Which in my book means nobody whose opinion matters was paying attention… Let’s be honest, none of this really matters does it.
My bloody analogue bike fell on me (sort of) and I broke my pelvis. Ban all bikes !!!
Seriously, it's the illegal and bodged bikes that need the focus. Our local police put some pictures on their Twitter about some illegal bikes they confiscated. All were the fat small wheel bikes that couriers use that aren't that fast. Not one Sur-ron ridden by a balaclava bandit, not one !
There's loads of sellers advertising these things on social media... e.g. first few hits from google on instragram:
and
I'd send to the bbc but I don't it would gain any traction as their focus seems to always be the emotional side, finding someone who's been injured to say how awful they are without any understanding of whats going on. 
Not everyone has access to a bike, or wants to ride one.
Not everyone has access to a pool, or wants to Swim either, yet everyone does that at School...
Some of you need to come and cycle in an urban environment. There are always Illegal ebikes around but there are people on legal ebikes who ride like complete dicks. There are people on pedal bikes who also ride like complete dicks. This is very prevalent in parks on shared paths and cycle lanes. A high proportion of the commuter hoard ride across red lights and through the pedestrians crossing on the green man. The dutch bus stop on the cycle lane in Manchester has a zebra crossing but the only way people stop for pedestrians is if i stop and block the cycle lane. Cyclist of all types ride at unsafe speeds on bike lanes where there are busy narrow pavements and canal towpaths need to be riden more carefully than some cyclists are doing.
It's also not just kids people on legal ebikes, fast road and gravel bikes some times ride with little consideration for others.
Slow down
Grow a brain
Some cyclist are just as bad as car drivers
We have members on here that have de-restricted their bikes and are quite open about it. However, that’s different because they are sensible, highly skilled and middle class.
A quote below (my first successful quote, hopefully), from a current e-bike thread on STW -
I was recently told by a shop that sells them that they can be 'derestricted' with a VPN on your phone, tell it you're in North America and it will assist up to 28mph instead of 16, I'd guess that will work on any other Avinox equipped ebike as well
Some cyclist are just as bad as car drivers
Can you clarify that point please. Are you saying that some cyclists are as bad as the good drivers, or average drivers or bad drivers?
The overwhelming majority of the 5 deaths a day (and many more seriously injured) on British roads are caused by drivers, and yet this is addressed with a general shrug, "these things happen" and a complete deprioritising of roads policing, and social media screaming whenever fairly small road changes are made to make street layouts safer.
So much this.
If this happened in any other area, there'd be outcry. 5 people a day dying on the Tube network, the entire thing would be shut down instantly: investigations, corporate manslaughter charges, dramatic overhaul of rules, regulations and procedures...
Driving. Yeah, whatever, Shit happens. Driving in this country (and in fact many countries around the world) is treated like school shootings in America. Terrible isn't it. Thoughts and prayers. Right, carry on.
The slightest suggestion that just maybe you could possibly look at doing a basic background check before selling someone an automatic rifle generates the same wails of injustice in the US that any notion of maybe just possibly reducing the speed limit past this school does over here. People in power would rather cling to the notion that at some random point, some sort of "special technology" (self-driving cars, flying taxis, drones, hyperloops) will fix it all.
And part of that is the ever-so-helpful media doing everything possible to distract from the real picture and the BBC have been doing great work on this recently, they've really picked up the baton from the Daily Mail.
Even the Telegraph managed (possibly under extreme duress) to publish a positive article about how Lime bikes had "saved London" during the Tube strikes. The BBC isn't having any of that nonsense, oh no. SOMEONE JUMPED A RED LIGHT!!!
Some cyclists cycle with the same lack of care for venerable road users as some car drivers who drive at inappropriate speeds, perform dangerous manoeuvres, ignore traffic lights speed limits and box junctions.
is that clear enough.
Driving. Yeah, whatever, Shit happens. Driving in this country (and in fact many countries around the world) is treated like school shootings in America. Terrible isn't it. Thoughts and prayers. Right, carry on.
It's not though is it - and deaths have been in decline for years despite road use increasing. Graph from Wikipedia...
That’s not necessarily due to better driving. It could be due to better crash protection in the cars and less people not in cars.
Car driving is now so wonderful I am looking for a Camera to record there behaviour when I cycle.
Even the Telegraph managed (possibly under extreme duress) to publish a positive article about how Lime bikes had "saved London" during the Tube strikes. The BBC isn't having any of that nonsense, oh no. SOMEONE JUMPED A RED LIGHT!!!
I'm Guessing that was through the Neo-Liberal filter of Union backed industrial action partly defeated by good old private corporations...
Whenever I've been in that there (central) Laaandarn you see the Lime bikes and scooters abandoned across pavements (Other brands also), and then inexpertly operated by half pissed tourists and deadline pushed Gig workers, I can't help but think they're almost, but not quite the right solution for that specific environment (which isn't representative of all Urban settings).
The problem with giving an extra ~250W of mobility assistance to Random dickheads (lots of humans are dickheads irrespective of their mode of transport) in a pedestrian dense setting (where the various dumped rental bikes and scooters help create more pinch points for Peds, cycles and cars/vans) is that you're just coaxing people towards more collisions and upping the general stress levels. Hence the lack of warm fuzzy feelings from many towards Lime bikes...
It feels like the electrification of bicycles/scooters has upped the speed and density of personal wheeled traffic is some key locations, just a smidge above what the local infrastructure can comfortably/safely support.
If I had dominion over such things the first thing I'd do would be to just ban the leccy scooters (rental or otherwise) and enable the plod to start confiscating and crushing Privately owned leccy scooters if used on public roads/pavements/parks.
Then I'd allow individual Local Authorities to decide if they really wanted to allow reintroduction of rental scooters in their area or not. Make the Local Authority responsible (and accountable) for that choice and see how "popular" Lime scooters really are, If residents are crying out for access to cheap, blunt-force dentistry then I'm sure their local council will oblige. Review of the chosen policy vs accident stats on a 36 month basis would be mandatory, the decision and it's justifications would have to be published.
The next thing I'd institute would be turning down the assistance on rental Leccy assist bikes, to ~12mph, Privately owned bikes can keep their higher 15.5mph assistance, but muggles on Lime bikes with 2 lunchtime beers in them and a mobile in one hand just get a smidge less assistance (and thus a reduction in the kinetic energy they can impart). Then we'd see how the transport mix really worked, again policies to be kept under review and justifications published...
Other cities/Towns have different infrastructure and populations, and should be allowed to decide their own transport mix and the amount of additional propulsion regular meat sacks get in their Borough.
The old "Boris Bikes" without assistance kind of made better sense, a relatively flat city means you don't need to expend lots of energy to get about if you don't want to and minimised the risk of "less capable" riders getting into trouble through an excess of speed and lack of ability. Hence I think dialling back the "easy speed" of rented, leccy two-wheeled transport options should be considered based on the specific area.
Those who have committed their own funds to a "pedelec" are probably more likely to be proficient and careful with their own property so they can keep their increased assistance level, but just like with privately owned leccy scooters if you chip the thing for more assistance or to turn it into a twist 'n' go and you're caught, it gets crushed...
And of course nothing really changes for those that pedal, unassisted for themselves.
At the same time none of this really matters in the grand scheme of the national discourse, and most of the population are not interested in the nuance of Bicycle Vs E-bike Vs E-scooter Vs E-moto, etc... quick and easy click-bait is all the topic is for these days...
Some cyclists cycle with the same lack of care for venerable road users as some car drivers who drive at inappropriate speeds, perform dangerous manoeuvres, ignore traffic lights speed limits and box junctions.
False Equivalence though....
Some cyclists cycle with the same lack of care for venerable road users as some car drivers who drive at inappropriate speeds, perform dangerous manoeuvres, ignore traffic lights speed limits and box junctions.
Sorry
*not that sorry*
Whenever I've been in that there (central) Laaandarn you see the Lime bikes and scooters abandoned across pavements (Other brands also), and then inexpertly operated by half pissed tourists and deadline pushed Gig workers,
You're obviously spending time in a different London to me. I'm there multiple times a year, work, social or touristing I've not had a single incident with anyone on a Lime bike or having a problem with abandoned Lime bikes. They are no more or less of a problem than any other form of transport.
you see the Lime bikes and scooters abandoned across pavements (Other brands also)
This is just mtornormativity - where stuff like this:
goes completely unremarked because "where else would people park?!" but something like this:
is suddenly a disaster waiting to happen, what about the elderly / blind / disabled / small people / dogs / aliens?!
If I had dominion over such things the first thing I'd do would be to just ban the leccy scooters (rental or otherwise) and enable the plod to start confiscating and crushing Privately owned leccy scooters if used on public roads/pavements/parks.
They're already banned, the police can (and do) confiscate. Problem is that in an under-resourced police force, you can't possibly solve more than a fraction of the issue - an issue that's been allowed to develop because successive governments have kicked the can down the road again and again, pretending the problem doesn't exist. I'd argue that it's not actually a problem as such, it's more an indication that people are crying out for a form of independent mobility that is not a car.
Then I'd allow individual Local Authorities to decide if they really wanted to allow reintroduction of rental scooters in their area or not. Make the Local Authority responsible (and accountable) for that choice and see how "popular" Lime scooters really are,
Again, they already are. The successful boroughs are the ones that have actually worked WITH Lime (and others) to put in proper cycle parking bays, mandate considerate parking in said bays, and committed to providing a modicum of decent infrastructure. The free-for-all areas are ones where the borough just hand-wrings, tries to blame Lime and the users and doesn't actually do anything proactive. Easy to keep blaming Lime though.
Worth noting that riding a rental e-scooter or e-bike has far more hoops to jump through than just getting in a car! I rented a Lime bike late one night and the app made me go through a reaction test to prove I wasn't drunk. Every time you park the bike you have to take a pic and upload it to Lime who can (and will) fine you sometimes quite draconian amounts for not parking properly. To ride an e-scooter, you have to upload a photo of your driving licence. There are geo-fenced areas where the motor cuts out if you try and ride through it.
None of that applies when you get in a car... Hell, cars are not even speed-limited! But apparently 20kg of e-bike restricted to 25kph is far more of a hazard than 2 tons of SUV capable of 100mph... 🙄
The free-for-all areas are ones where the borough just hand-wrings, tries to blame Lime and the users and doesn't actually do anything proactive.
Sorry but why exactly is it the councils job to provide facilities for Lime? I know its a radical idea but isnt that for Lime to do rather than externalising the costs onto the taxpayer?
Sorry but why exactly is it the councils job to provide facilities for Lime? I know its a radical idea but isnt that for Lime to do rather than externalising the costs onto the taxpayer?
Because the council manages (most of) the highways - certainly all the local level stuff. Trunk roads and motorways are managed by National Highways but that's not really relevant here.
The council provide for this all the time. Car parking spaces, loading bays, crossing points, pretty much all the traffic management stuff. It all comes ultimately from the taxpayer. Converting a bit of existing street with some painted lines and a couple of bollards is very cheap and easy to do and it's a benefit to everyone because you can then insist that rental e-bikes and e-scooters get parked there. Miraculously, when this happens, the complaints about abandoned bikes decrease dramatically.
These things are all over London now:
It's not though is it - and deaths have been in decline for years despite road use increasing. Graph from Wikipedia...
That's not the whole picture, sadly. You'll notice there's an inflection point about 2010 where it stops going down (whether that's due to lower driving standards/lack of enforcement/car bloat/whatever).
This Australian ad is very powerful for those who've not seen it
If I had dominion over such things the first thing I'd do would be to just ban the leccy scooters (rental or otherwise) and enable the plod to start confiscating and crushing Privately owned leccy scooters if used on public roads/pavements/parks.
Cool idea Bro. Then they'd use cars instead and the whole problem would be miraculously resolved....🙄
Then they'd use cars instead and the whole problem would be miraculously resolved
Do you have the data to hand of how many electric scooter users also drive? I would guess not many otherwise they would probably already be driving.
Do you have the data to hand of how many electric scooter users also drive? I would guess not many otherwise they would probably already be driving.
To use a rental e-scooter, you need to upload your driving licence to the app. The theory is that they can only be used by over-18's with an existing driving licence.
Private ones are obviously illegal on public roads anyway but the sheer usage of them indicates there's a huge pent-up demand for them.
Related to that, the Government have indicated that there'll be parliamentary time in May 2026 to legalise & regulate e-scooters. Needs a new vehicle class, the current working acronym is L-ZEV for Low-speed Zero Emission Vehicle.
I was wrong, ignore comment.
Cool idea Bro. Then they'd use cars instead and the whole problem would be miraculously resolved....
Feels a little Binary are 'Car' and 'E-Scooter' the only transport options available?
I suppose we're mostly (but not exclusively) talking about London, where you a mixture of walking, cycling (with or without assistance), Tube, bus, Taxi or private car are all options. Lots of those options still exist outside of major cities.
I think people like to assume that just because some of us aren't all in on E-bikes/E-scooters for mobility we've got "Car Brain" and can't stomach other active travel options, the truth is it feels like we're being overrun by "E-vangelists" (see what I did there) in recent years, who seem a little blind to the fact that pretty much all of these Dock-less outfits are just another subset of the Tech-bro cult, reinventing solutions, but with an App...
You make a fair point cookeaa, and I may have been attributing opinions to you that you don't hold.
My concern is that so many people seem to be vehemently opposed to eebs, scooters, semi-eeebs and other stuff and missing the point that actually the killers out there are cars.
It feels very like what the rich/Tories/ republicans do with respect to money and immigrants.
On Lime bikes, nice clip here on how some end up discarded on pavements, where a pedestrian walks past one and kicks it onto the floor.
Need to be logged into Bluesky though to view it https://bsky.app/profile/azb2019.bsky.social/post/3lyl62q6s4k2l
when I used e scooters in NZ you had to take and upload a photo of how you parked it. they also had gps controlled variable speed limits
My concern is that so many people seem to be vehemently opposed to eebs, scooters, semi-eeebs and other stuff and missing the point that actually the killers out there are cars
This. Air pollution, to which ICE vehicles make a contribution, is an expensive killer. https://www.rcp.ac.uk/news-and-media/news-and-opinion/air-pollution-linked-to-30-000-uk-deaths-in-2025-and-costs-the-economy-and-nhs-billions-warns-royal-college-of-physicians/